"swallowing" ​b​lackpill, overcoming it; moving forward; pseudoscience and woo-woo stuff

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5ts
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Re: "swallowing" ​b​lackpill, overcoming it; moving forward; pseudoscience and woo-woo stuff

Post by 5ts »

Stahlmann, we seem to walk a similar path, so know this is all coming from the heart and I want to help.

Abandon all pseudo-philosophies which remove the burden from you and puts the blame on society. It's not helpful, probably harmful. If you don't fit into society and you want to fit into society, which I think is generally a good idea, then you have to adapt yourself to society. We can't expect society to adapt to us. It's impossible.

You have good attributes. Recognize them and highlight them. You have bad attributes. Recognize them and minimize them. Don't be fake. It's obvious and will only create more distance between you and others. I personally fell into the "nice guy" syndrome, friend-zoned out the wazoo. It's pathetic and no one likes a "nice guy". That was my fault. Also people told me I am generally awkward in conversation. Yes, I can see that. That's my fault. The only logical response is to have more conversations and see what works and what doesn't. You can tell when people aren't engaged or are weirded out. Take note and figure it out for next time.

Put yourself in social situations. It's the only way to improve. It's difficult but this is the crux of the issue.

You can only control yourself. You can't control society. If you put in the work for yourself then people can and will like you.

jacob
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Re: "swallowing" ​b​lackpill, overcoming it; moving forward; pseudoscience and woo-woo stuff

Post by jacob »

chenda wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:49 pm
@Jacob - That's an interesting way of looking at it, did you borrow it from non-dualism ?
No. From this ... viewtopic.php?p=169390#p169390

steveo73
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Re: "swallowing" ​b​lackpill, overcoming it; moving forward; pseudoscience and woo-woo stuff

Post by steveo73 »

5ts wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:58 pm
Abandon all pseudo-philosophies which remove the burden from you and puts the blame on society. It's not helpful, probably harmful. If you don't fit into society and you want to fit into society, which I think is generally a good idea, then you have to adapt yourself to society. We can't expect society to adapt to us. It's impossible.
....
Put yourself in social situations. It's the only way to improve. It's difficult but this is the crux of the issue.

You can only control yourself. You can't control society. If you put in the work for yourself then people can and will like you.
Great points.

My take on relationships is that it's really always about you. You have to remain independent but also work together as a couple. I had marital problems years ago and read a lot of Schnarch and Gottman. Schnarch would call this differentiation. You definitely do not become an "us". You can though connect with someone whilst retaining your sense of self.

5ts
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Re: "swallowing" ​b​lackpill, overcoming it; moving forward; pseudoscience and woo-woo stuff

Post by 5ts »

I agree, becoming a truly melded "us" seems like a great way to get yourself trampled in a relationship. I would say the person who takes advantage of such a situation isn't even being selfish since the "us" becomes him/herself. Cooperate maximally but don't capitulate unconditionally.

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Re: "swallowing" ​b​lackpill, overcoming it; moving forward; pseudoscience and woo-woo stuff

Post by jacob »

Quicksand ... stage 3 goes beyond the transactional turf game. You're not gonna lose yourself...

Add: To be constructive (two corners?), realize that advice is now being given at multiple levels here. The productive kind of advice is always +1 level beyond. +2 beyond will always seem like woo-woo. There are still no short cuts! The appropriate step here (OP) remains to figure out how to make human connections and learn and build from that. Reserve the "us"-stage for when sufficient "me/you" experience has been acquired to build something constructive on that. Right now, you should focus on the "you"-stage. Realize that focusing on "you" or "us" instead of "me" is not the end of the journey. Turtles all the way down. You've so far looked for turtles to stand on. Now change focus and look for turtles to stand on you. Giving instead of taking. Once there's some experience in both roles, you can do more, like making That's the next step.

5ts
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Re: "swallowing" ​b​lackpill, overcoming it; moving forward; pseudoscience and woo-woo stuff

Post by 5ts »

By the way, working on yourself does not mean changing yourself to what you think will make others like you. It's presenting the best version of yourself, because why wouldn't you and others deserve the best version of yourself. Not striving to be the best version of yourself makes you miserable. Trust me I know. Keyword is striving, because I am not the best version of myself but I am always striving to be better. So much room to grow!

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Re: "swallowing" ​b​lackpill, overcoming it; moving forward; pseudoscience and woo-woo stuff

Post by steveo73 »

5ts wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:04 pm
By the way, working on yourself does not mean changing yourself to what you think will make others like you. It's presenting the best version of yourself, because why wouldn't you and others deserve the best version of yourself. Not striving to be the best version of yourself makes you miserable. Trust me I know. Keyword is striving, because I am not the best version of myself but I am always striving to be better. So much room to grow!
I have a passionate dislike for the idea of improving yourself to your version of what you think other people will like especially women. How sad is it that some men are obsessed with trying to impress women just to get laid.

Firstly who says that what you think women want is what they actually want. Secondly what if you don't even like the person that you are striving to become.

Now working on yourself is to me an on-going component of living a good life. It's just that if you are heading in the wrong direction it's a shitty way to live.

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Re: "swallowing" ​b​lackpill, overcoming it; moving forward; pseudoscience and woo-woo stuff

Post by Toska2 »

Relax.
What you are describing is like snowshoeing up and down a ski hill. Act as if you were snowboarding. Glide over the imperfections (of others, yourself and locations). Most relationships dont last years, enjoy the moments that do. Make new ones. Lose some or all. Do it again.

I chuckle a bit when people say "assimilate" to the regional society. I'd rather hang myself.

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Re: "swallowing" ​b​lackpill, overcoming it; moving forward; pseudoscience and woo-woo stuff

Post by jacob »

jacob wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:11 pm
Bingo! I once wrote a long "relationship"-post that I still fail to find ...
Here it is: viewtopic.php?p=177670#p177670


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Stahlmann
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Re: "swallowing" ​b​lackpill, overcoming it; moving forward; pseudoscience and woo-woo stuff

Post by Stahlmann »

Hmm.
Last edited by Stahlmann on Tue May 12, 2020 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

Gilberto de Piento
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Re: "swallowing" ​b​lackpill, overcoming it; moving forward; pseudoscience and woo-woo stuff

Post by Gilberto de Piento »

Can you explain more about what you are getting at? The second sentence especially doesn't make sense to me.

chenda
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Re: "swallowing" ​b​lackpill, overcoming it; moving forward; pseudoscience and woo-woo stuff

Post by chenda »

@stahlmanm - How old are you ? Because I think that will be relevant to the advice people here give you.

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Egg
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Re: "swallowing" ​b​lackpill, overcoming it; moving forward; pseudoscience and woo-woo stuff

Post by Egg »

I can only guess at the original content of this thread from the replies but will focus on the implied lack of success with women. Having been somewhat down the path of "Game/PUA" over the last decade or more, I can only say that it changed my life. Specifically, it gave me the practical crutches to get more confident with women whilst I figured out some of my own "inner game" issues. I imagine a lot of the precise stuff I read has aged badly, but I am attaching a link. I hesitated hard on this, because I personally think this guy is a misogynyst, and at the very least he has such a dark sense of humour that he could be dangerously misunderstood by an angry young man who takes his writings over-literally. However, he is the real deal for introvert day game, and at a technical level there's a lot you could learn from him: krauserpua.com (I checked in on his blog just now, and it looks like he's gone celibate btw, which is a weird twist).

I'd analogise this "learn (day)game" approach to anti-depressants and the "deal with it" advice from many posters above to CBT or other long-term therapies. Both are valid, and you can't put off tackling the root issues forever, but if you're in a rut sometimes you need something more superficial to get you out first.

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Re: "swallowing" ​b​lackpill, overcoming it; moving forward; pseudoscience and woo-woo stuff

Post by TopHatFox »

@Egg, maybe not to weird, Roosh also went god-pill celibate after running introvert day and night game for a decade. Must come with the territory of doing this for a living

Game is one of the most clear and thorough books for day game, but it's out of print. :p

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Re: "swallowing" ​b​lackpill, overcoming it; moving forward; pseudoscience and woo-woo stuff

Post by Starper »

The easiest fix for a man who can't get laid is to change location. Move to a country like the Philippines and when you step off the plane you'll get an instant upgrade from "average, invisible to women" to "a great catch". Don't get married or make any serious commitments before you know what you're doing. Use protection and common sense.

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Egg
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Re: "swallowing" ​b​lackpill, overcoming it; moving forward; pseudoscience and woo-woo stuff

Post by Egg »

TopHatFox wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 8:45 pm
Roosh also went god-pill celibate after running introvert day and night game for a decade. Must come with the territory of doing this for a living
At the risk of taking this thread off topic, I always had a hard time believing Roosh was getting results. Something always smelt weird about that guy (and most salesman PUA-types, who strike me as the "those who can't, teach" camp).

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C40
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Re: "swallowing" ​b​lackpill, overcoming it; moving forward; pseudoscience and woo-woo stuff

Post by C40 »

The feeling I got from a lot of those PUA guys is: "ok, yeah, a weirdo/sociopath/narcissist like that guy, you may need/want to use some tricks and deception in order to get laid".

And, if they're going to lie or deceive just to have sex, of course they're going to lie to make money. IMO, when someone uses deception and outright lying in one fashion (particularly when it can be damaging for the people they lie to), you should be suspect of everything else they say.

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Re: "swallowing" ​b​lackpill, overcoming it; moving forward; pseudoscience and woo-woo stuff

Post by ZAFCorrection »

If I remember right, TLP had a set of posts about Mad Men/Don Draper. I think one of the points in that stream of consciousness was that Don Draper's disconnected performance of himself was a good signal to a certain subset of women that low-entanglement sexytime was on tap. Maybe PUAs are only accidentally successful because they are signaling an easy lay to girls who just wanna have fun. From the female perspective, at least the PUA isn't being a gibbering mess.

ertyu
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Re: "swallowing" ​b​lackpill, overcoming it; moving forward; pseudoscience and woo-woo stuff

Post by ertyu »

PUA tactics are successful the way the nigerian prince scammers are successful. sane and well adjusted women smell them a mile off. inexperienced women who haven't encountered this bs before might take a while to wize up to what's happening, but will generally clear out too. in the long run, pua is counterproductive because even if you do end up being lucky enouch to tuck your end away a couple of times you have cultivated no actual meaningful relationships and no actual relationship skills.

overcoming blackpill to me is kind of like overcoming refined sugar in that way - there is a temptation to a sugar rush or an ego rush, but once you really realize that in the long run you're only hurting yourself you end up evolving beyond it.

It's interesting to note that PUA techniques work on the followers of the movement kind of like they work (or don't) on women. The techniques select the most emotionally underdeveloped men, as well adjusted psychologically healthy men either see through the bs right away or, if inexperienced, see through the bullshit after they realize it's only hurt them. What men who follow PUAs don't realize is that women aren't the target here - they themselves (their wallets, their subscriptions that can be leveraged into book contracts, their podcast listens that can be leveraged into advertising income) are the target.
Last edited by ertyu on Thu May 14, 2020 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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