RoamingFrancis' Path to ERE

Where are you and where are you going?
AxelHeyst
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Path to ERE

Post by AxelHeyst »

@rf, I basically agree with the ethical dilemma you outlined. How I'm starting to think about it:

-'Retiring' on investment income is a way to excuse myself from the majority of the destructive behaviors society has us locked in to. I'm currently aiming to FIRE at 1-2 Jacobs. If I didn't have a mechanism to live off that amount of money without working, I'd probably be way less disciplined about my level of consumption and live at 4-8 Jacobs. So the "carrot" of RE is hugely influencing my consumptive practices. I'm also planning on using the freedom of RE to invest my time in activities that will be somewhat valuable to the world - involvement with tiny house villages for relief for the unsheltered, urban ag, community engagement, etc etc. In other words, I'm guessing my negative impact on the world will be much less if I go down the ERE path, than if I stay the course of a normal Wheaton 1-3 life.

-The only other option I see is to go full hobo/Suelo/Jesus. Quit my job, connect with the proud tradition of my okie ancestors as an impoverished seasonal fruit picker, dumpster dive most of my food, and read library books. I'd solve my ethical dilemma there, but I just happen to not have the testicular fortitude to pull the trigger on it.

RoamingFrancis
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Path to ERE

Post by RoamingFrancis »

I think this responds to points raised both by ertyu and AxelHeyst.

I realize I'm my sample is biased :) I plan to ask the same questions in other groups to get a more balanced perspective on things. You make a very good point about the system keeping labor complicit by making retirement income dependent on capital.

I also agree that this dilemma exists in consumption. I think this is another motivation for reducing consumption as much as possible and DIYing or insourcing as much as possible. Of course, no one can do everything, so some consumption is necessary.

I don't think a homestead is a bad idea and I could see myself living at one in the future. I don't see homesteading and the responsibility to work for social change as mutually exclusive. Scott and Helen Nearing did both.

I strive to be an apocaloptimist (apocalypse + optimist), so nihilism doesn't really float my boat.

@AxelHeyst I'm not familiar with the term Jacobs as a unit of measurement. Is that how much Jacob spends in a year? 7k or so?

I also agree that you essentially have to weigh whether you're causing more harm by living off investment income or by staying dependent on an economic system that forces you to engage in destructive behaviors. I'm studying nursing so I hope to use my skills mainly to heal, but I know lots of injustices occurr within our health care system. With ERE I'd have the ability to provide free or cheap healthcare to the poor without having to think about income. That'd also give me more leeway to explore alternative treatments.

In regards to going full hobo, the most interesting human I've ever met did basically that. He was a Russian lawyer who would work for a short period of time, then go full hobo. He hitchhiked from Mexico to Chile like that and is still going. Another problem with the full hobo approach is that you don't have as much control of your time. It's also hard to launch projects to help the homeless if you're homeless yourself. And as far as I know, Jesus had enough friends that he didn't really worry about food. I know the Buddha definitely had some wealthy benefactors, despite being homeless himself. I'd have to go back and read the Gospels to be sure about Jesus.

So yeah. If investments give me enough control of my time to be able to do important projects on my own terms, maybe they are justified, even if not ideal.

ertyu
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Path to ERE

Post by ertyu »

Jesus made bread and wine out of thin air and hung out with a whore and a bunch of fishermen. All basic needs covered there

AxelHeyst
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Path to ERE

Post by AxelHeyst »

1 Jacob = $7k/yr, yes. (He spends less now apparently, but the original 7k thing stuck as the basic unit of measurement).

The Buddha was born a wealthy prince, who rejected his privilege when he ventured outside the palace walls and discovered suffering. And then yes, he rubbed elbows with wealthy folks after his rejection of wealth iirc. Wealthy folks hated Jesus, mostly, because he told them they should give up their riches if they wanted to get to heaven. But modest folks would put him up and feed him etc in return for dropping truth and love bombs from heaven in epic sermons. :) He had a large portfolio of spiritual capital, and was able to exchange it for the basic material goods required for living, to put it one way.

I took an ethics class in college. I learned that utilitarianism, which is the idea that you should do what will maximize good / minimize harm in the world, isn't well regarded by modern ethical philosophers, because it's basically impossible to accurately predict how that moral calculus is going to work out. Check out Iatrogenics, which is accidental harm caused by good intentions (if you haven't run across it already in the health profession, which is where I believe it started). Nassim Taleb has much to say on it. This isn't to say we're off the hook for making moral decisions, just to steer us away from falling in the trap of trying to build a bloody spreadsheet to predict ethical impact on every little decision throughout all of time. Iatrogenics is also a big deal in the fields of humanitarian 'aid' and sustainability.

I suspect it will be much more difficult for me to have a large negative impact on the world if I live off of 1-2 Jacobs and have an investment portfolio of in the neighborhood of $300k. There's only so much havoc you can cause with such a small flow and pile of cash.

classical_Liberal
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Path to ERE

Post by classical_Liberal »

AxelHeyst wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:56 am
if you haven't run across it already in the health profession, which is where I believe it started
Non-maleficence is the term used in health care, which is, do no harm. I think it's awesome when a young person wants to change the world for the better. Now that I'm an old man though, I tend to think trying to first do no harm is really what everyone should focus on. If only half the world did that, we'd live in an amazing place.

Anyway, @RoamingFrancis, for what it's worth I think you made the right decision staying at your parents for now. I realize the rush to independence runs strong in the ERE-force, but if you're reasonably happy with the arrangement, trying to individuate yourself in others ways is just as effective. Also, if you ever have any questions wrt nursing, feel free to PM me. Good luck with everything!

AxelHeyst
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Path to ERE

Post by AxelHeyst »

@rf, this thread is relevant to your question about ethics:
viewtopic.php?p=173626&sid=8d6d75e25764 ... 6384564119

RoamingFrancis
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Path to ERE

Post by RoamingFrancis »

Some Financial Fuck-Ups

Hello everyone,

Just wanted to report on a recent snafu: There was an error in my FAFSA application. Luckily, I am attending a community college and had some money saved up for emergencies. So I've been paying for tuition and textbooks out of my own pocket so far and my savings have rapidly decreased. I will give a more specific numbers report when I can write from a private computer.

Anywho, I'm a bit stressed and because it has been difficult for me to stay balanced with classes, having a social life, and resolving snafus such as these.

I expect things to get easier as I become used to how things are run at the school, my professors, etc. Hopefully will be able to get this resolved soon.

Peaceably,
Roaming Francis

RoamingFrancis
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Path to ERE

Post by RoamingFrancis »

January Expenses and Reflections on the Start of School

Let's start with the numbers.

$697.45 - Textbooks
$5.00 - School ID
$6.47 - Lock
$7.57 - Lab goggles

Total: 716.49

As you may have seen in my last post, I have a FAFSA snafu. Normally FAFSA would pay for textbooks, but I had to pay out of my pocket. I'm trying to get that sorted out and get some money back. The school ID was an unavoidable expense. The lock and lab goggles I probably could have gotten for free if I had more foresight and planned better, but I waited until the last minute. Doesn't seem like a huge deal though. This current spending level puts me at about 1 JAFI, but this is only because I am getting free room and board by living with my generous parents.

I am having bike issues and so have been walking 6 miles to and from school. Perhaps bike repair would be a good place to start learning DIY skills. I don't have time to fully immerse myself in permaculture as I'd like to, but there is a local organization that offers weekend workshops.

I was initially nervous about doing a STEM major because I strongly self-identified as a "foreign language and history kid' in high school. But now I've started classes and am determined to do as well as I can, and it isn't nearly as scary as I had thought. I am genuinely enjoying school, and I expect things to get less stressful as I get better at studying, build a strong social network, and create good systems for myself.

Peaceably,
Roaming Francis

classical_Liberal
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Path to ERE

Post by classical_Liberal »

One thing you'll find amazing is the social connectedness you get with fellow nursing students. This holds true actually throughout your career as a nurse as well. Don't be afraid to announce your intended major to folks in your classes, you'll find a lot of others wanting to go into nursing. The unfortunate part of this is, generally, quite a few of the friends you make will wash out before the major starts.

Hope the FAFSA issue resolves for you! Oh and speaking of financial aid. FYI, perkins loans, if they still exist, I heard there were some funding issues, are more like grants for nurses. They are forgiven over a period of five years as long as you work in full time patient care after graduation. Very simple process, once annually, to get the forgiveness, so was well worth it, I got like 8K worth over 3.5 years of school and they were all forgiven.

RoamingFrancis
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Path to ERE

Post by RoamingFrancis »

Yeah, I am ENFP so a college environment has been fantastic for me. It's very easy to meet new people, make friends, and talk to people I find attractive :) Also, spending more time away from home has improved my relationships with my family and has given me more control over my eating habits.

The community college I attend has a partnership with nearby universities for nursing, where you can pay community college prices for three years and university prices for just one. So it's a pretty popular major in the classes I'm taking (A&P, Chem, etc). I will look into Perkins loans, thanks for the recommendation. I'm hoping to be able to get the whole thing paid for in scholarships.

wolf
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Path to ERE

Post by wolf »

AxelHeyst wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:56 am
1 Jacob = $7k/yr, yes. (He spends less now apparently, but the original 7k thing stuck as the basic unit of measurement).
and then there is also 1 JAFI (jacob adjusted for inflation)
2019 $8,631 equals 1 JAFI
viewtopic.php?p=204324#p204324

RoamingFrancis
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Path to ERE

Post by RoamingFrancis »

ERE, and Student Life

As a student, I'm not earning much and I'm not spending much, so my progress towards ERE is slow. In a recent exchange with @AxelHeyst, I realized it would be a good idea to use this journal for the additional purposes of documenting progress towards goals in other aspects of my life. Vague goals include being a better student, being more efficient at studying and learning, lifting heavier weights, meditating more, building a stronger social network, and learning DIY skills.

My guiding philosophy for this academic phase of my life is Cal Newport's Zen Valedictorian post, seen here.https://www.calnewport.com/blog/2008/04 ... -ambition/ I believe this is a robust strategy for doing well as a student.

Newport recommends being a hyper-specialist, which is in contradiction to the ERE "Renaissance Man" philosphy. Although I do not plan on specializing my entire life, I do think it is useful to severely limit any activities that require a regular investment of my time and energy. I have natural ADHD tendencies and always want to jump at something new, and so it is helpful for me to consciously limit where I am putting my energy. I guess you could say I plan to become a Renaissance Man by specializing in one thing at a time.

Tensegrity, Web of Goals, and Pareto Optimization

The Pareto Principle holds true for most things, and I'd like to figure out how it fits into my life right now. This section is partially me explaining things to you all, and partially me thinking out loud to myself to see if I can gain clarity through writing.

One of my favorite concepts from the ERE book is the idea of tensegrity. The goals I have for my current situation have a high degree of tensegrity, except for learning DIY skills. Meditating and lifting weights improves cognition, which makes studying easier, which allows for more time to develop a supportive network of friends, who will give me emotional support to make progress towards my other goals.

Learning DIY skills seems to be the one item that is harder to fit. Perhaps I can create an environment in which I learn DIY skills with friends. Perhaps the problem is that I'm a DIY noob, and just don't know where to start. In any case, its difficulty fitting into my current web is difficult. I have lots of torn clothing I don't know how to fix and my family has unused bikes lurking in need of repair in the garage, but it seems like a vast world I'd have to learn and maybe I'm better off focusing on the aspects of my web with more obvious tensegrity. I'm not sure about this; any advice would be appreciated.

So leaving DIY skills aside for the moment, what 20% do I focus on to receive the maximum benefits? This question will be easier to answer if I give a brief description of my life right now.

I am taking 4 classes at a community college located 6 miles from my home. Our bikes are broken and I don't know how to fix them, so I've been waking up at 8:30 on school days and walking the 6 miles. To improve my ability to focus, I do not take my cell phone out of my house. This creates some social friction, but I don't want to change it.

I am taking Ethics, Anatomy and Physiology, Chemistry, and Statistics. Ethics is easy; I do not need any particular strategy for this class. A&P is all memorization. My strategy is to use a combination of the Method of Loci and spaced repetition software (Anki) to memorize efficiently. My strategy for statistics is to focus on being capable of solving the problem sets, and periodically using Scott Young's Feynman Technique to explain the concepts to myself. Lastly, my strategy for chemistry is just to participate in class and do the homework on time. I have an excellent teacher with a similar personality to myself, so I think as long as I apply myself I will be able to do well.

This week I am bringing my laptop to school to take notes, instead of using pen and paper like I normally do. I usually struggle with organization, and laptops make this easier. Additionally, I can access WhatsApp on my computer when necessary, which puts me in the Goldilocks Zone of access to the benefits of technology without its distracting and addictive drawbacks.

Conclusion

Thanks for reading my rambling; I hope it's coherent. This week my focus is to plan better so I don't have to rush to turn in assignments, and do at least some work each day. Last week I got backed up and was frantically finishing assignments before class started, and I don't want to do that anymore. This evening I will also try to fix those bikes so I can decrease commute time. Wish me luck.

Peaceably,
Roaming Francis

AxelHeyst
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Path to ERE

Post by AxelHeyst »

This is great. I’m a big fan of Scott Young as well. Cal Newport - you probably already are aware of him but Deep Work and So Good They Can’t Ignore You both complement Scott Young very well.

For DIY, I recommend starting one small thing at a time. Fixing a broken bike is daunting. Learning to fix a flat tire is more manageable. And then learning to adjust the rear shifter. Break it in to pieces. Edit: A couple other recommendations: Figure out what tools and parts you need for a certain job. Make sure you have them. Figure out what kind of space you need for the job (aka will there be oil/grease involved? Best do it in the garage, not the living room). Figure out how much time you'll need, and then double that estimate, and double it again. Read the instructions/watch the tutorial, until you think you've got the gist of the procedure.

Then pick a time when you won't be rushed. Put on some music you like, invite a friend over to hang out and chat if you're social like that. Phone > airplane mode. Endeavor to enjoy the process, even if the result is you break the bike more.

Keep an eye out for opportunities to study with a partner. Specifically, look for opportunities to reach/explain to your ‘study’ partner. Figuring how to explain something to someone else is one of the best ways to learn something. I would try to 1) study/learn something on my own, and then 2) go ‘study’ with someone who hasn’t started studying the material yet, so mostly I’m just explaining it to them and helping them. I learned what I didn’t really know, and solidified what I did.

RoamingFrancis
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Path to ERE

Post by RoamingFrancis »

Yes, I cited Cal Newport's article in my previous post. I have read most of his books - So Good They Can't Ignore You was hugely impactful when I was transitioning out of being a part-time hobo.

Peace.

AxelHeyst
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Path to ERE

Post by AxelHeyst »

^Ugh, reading comprehension. My bad.

RoamingFrancis
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Path to ERE

Post by RoamingFrancis »

@AxelHeyst No worries.

RoamingFrancis
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Path to ERE

Post by RoamingFrancis »

The human condition can be summarized in two sentences.

1) We are going to die.
2) The path to a good life is not immediately clear.

A good life is hard to get. People fight addiction, survive abuse, flee from war, and sleep on the street. But a good life often eludes the wealthy and powerful as well.

For those of us not in extreme poverty or extreme oppression, there is another danger. This is the danger of being comfortable but empty. The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.

The question of how to live well is difficult to answer for a young person. This is because I have not had enough time to have experiences and develop wisdom. The paradox of life is that as you grow older and start to learn how to live well, you also start to lose energy and physical capabilities.

I am a 19 year old trying to figure out how to live well. I think I've uncovered some guiding principles, but I will not know until I am on my deathbed.

1) Extreme frugality and impeccable physical health are prerequisites for a good life. They make everything else possible.
2) Meditation is an extremely powerful tool for healing.
3) My well-being is entangled with the well-being of all. The happiest I feel is when I help someone else get a better life.

RoamingFrancis
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Path to ERE

Post by RoamingFrancis »

Sigmoid Curves and My Web of Goals

A few days ago I posted some vague goals of mine. I am now going to talk about each of them more in depth.

Academic

I am currently taking prerequisite requirements for a nursing degree at a community college. In high school I excelled in foreign languages, but was afraid of science and math. However, I have chosen to do a STEM degree. My long-term academic goals are to become a "department star" in my program despite my poor background in science and math. My general strategy to do this is outlined in Cal Newport's Zen Valedictorian article, which I posted earlier. However, getting to this level will take time, and now I need to focus on mastering the material at hand. I have four classes.

Anatomy and Physiology: This is my most difficult class. The professor rambles about other medical stuff and it is hard to filter out the truly important content. The book store had a shortage of lab books so I am dependent on an unreliable classmate for homework pages. I am memorizing body parts and cell organelles but I am not gaining a deeper understanding of how the human body functions. I find this all frustrating. I am learning to memorize efficiently with the Method of Loci and Anki, but the logistics of the class make it hard. We have our first quiz on Thursday; I am learning the material as best as I can without stressing about it. The hard part of the class is that I'm not sure exactly what will be on the quiz. Hopefully seeing the first quiz will let me better guess what I need to know for the future.

Chemistry: This is also a large number of credit hours, but the teacher is fantastic and I deeply enjoy it. I think I will get an A as long as I continue participating in class.

Statistics: This is an interesting class. As long as I do the homework I'll do fine.

Ethics: Cake walk. Super easy.

Pareto summary: Now that I've written all this out I can see that 80% of my academic hindrances stem from A&P. If I got the lab book and had clearer expectations of what would be tested, everything else would be a hell of a lot easier.

Physical Health

I commute 12 total on weekdays, either by foot or bike. I currently use the 5x5 StrongLifts system for weightlifting; I have free access to the school gym. My most recent sets of 5x5 for each lift are as follows:

Squat: 165 lb
Overhead Press: 75 lb
Bench Press: 110 lb
Deadlift: 150 lb
Barbell Row: 0 lb! (I don't know how to do the form well and need to learn more!)

At this point the weights I'm lifting are still slowly increasing. I expect my squats to plateau sometime in the near future. My current plan is to wait until each of these lifts plateaus and then reassess. I don't know enough about weightlifting to do otherwise yet.

Pareto summary: Learn how to do a fucking barbell row properly. Then wait.

Social

I have two main social goals: build a strong circle of genuine friends and be involved in a romantic relationship.

I'll have some people over for dinner next Friday and try to establish new friendships and reconnect with people I knew in high school.

I've never been in a romantic relationship, so this would be a new experience that I'd really like to see play out. Ironically, I think the more needy and the more you long for one, the less likely you are to find it. My strategy is to invite attractive people to coffee while remaining unattached to the outcome.

Conclusion

Damn, writing about this is addicting. Chronicling life as a normal student is a fantastic way to clear your head and stay focused on what's important.

I've temporarily removed meditation and DIY skills from my web of goals. I still practice meditation daily and plan to learn DIY skills, but I'll address these later.

My main takeaway from all this rambling is to keep doing what I'm doing, but learn how to do a proper barbell row and take some steps to make anatomy easier. I need to get the lab book as soon as possible and figure out a sytem to figure out what I actually need to learn. The quiz will serve as my first datapoint.

Through writing this I've realized that my goals are largely self-centered. I want to do more to serve others too.

Thanks again for reading my rambling; this journal is fantastic at getting me to actually do shit that I want to do.

Peaceably,
Roaming Francis

RoamingFrancis
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Path to ERE

Post by RoamingFrancis »

Analyzing and writing about my web of goals is good, but I by nature tend to use intuition when it comes to decision making. I've always turned up as ENFP when I've taken Internet personality tests :)

I was approached by a professor recently; he asked if I could help start a Mental Health Club at my school. My gut is telling me to say yes. I'm not exactly sure how this will play out, but I have faith that it's a good decision.

This journal is going to evolve a bit. As @AxelHeyst pointed out in a discussion in his journal, my "process" right now is mostly about cultivating good habits, mindset, and avoiding up totally fucking up my life (getting someone pregnant, getting into debt, etc). Even though I'm at a community college and live at home, I am determined to suck the marrow out of "college life" and have the most fulfilling experience I possibly can.

So I'll be talking less about finances and more about learning techniques, interesting side projects, the cultivation of friendships and community building.

Just to recap, I'd like to list my web of immediate priorities:
  • Maintain and improve peak physical, mental, and emotional health
  • Get straight A's and be a nursing department star
  • Build a cadre of true friends and experience my first romantic relationship
  • Turn the nascent Mental Health Club into something really kickass
This'll be fun!

RoamingFrancis
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Re: RoamingFrancis' Path to ERE

Post by RoamingFrancis »

Probably be disappointed for a bit and then move on.

I like the Trichotomy of Control from William Irvine's book on Stoicism. There are three types of things:

1) Those which you fully control (mindset, effort, etc)
2) Those which you partially control (health, grades, most of the goals I've listed above)
3) Those which you do not control at all. (Climate change, financial disaster, etc)

It is logical to put time and effort into the first category. For the second category, you have to focus on genuinely doing the best job you possibly can. If you fail, that's life. But if you fail to do your best, that's on you. For the third category, it doesn't make sense to worry because you can't control it.

Unfortunately I'm not a Stoic sage and experience disruptions in my tranquility, but this is the mindset I try to adopt.

"You have a right to your action; you do not have a right to the fruit of your action."
- Bhagavad Gita

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