Are tattoos stupid?

[Sclass]

Seriously, are you listening to what you’re saying? You’re saying it isn’t such a big deal and you’re saying you hide it under a suit or clothing. So why hide it?

I’m not saying it’s stupid BTW. I’m all for personal expression and art. I’m just saying that there are some people out there who will reject you vs. an undecorated person if all other things are equal. Gatekeepers. I’ve spent enough time behind the gate to see it in action. Decisions are influenced by all kinds of silly things. We may not like it but it is there.

I’m not talking about jobs at Whole Foods bagging groceries here. I’m talking about selling trust to wary investors among other things. If your handlers think you’ll spook the mark you will not get the front facing role. Whether it’s investing in some services, design, property, we are all selling something. You may say I won’t deal with these types, but now you’ve diminished your optionality.

The world is full of this garbage. People reject because skin is too brown. They have some bigoted response like I don’t feel I can trust this one...can we get a lighter shade? I’ve heard the misguided interpretation “he doesn’t think about the future,” assigned to inked people. Fair or unfair, right or wrong, it’s out there.

And people with tattoos inherently know this which is why they are selectively shown and not shown for impact.

[Jason]

lol@art I personally don't know any one who owns a Picasso, but I never heard a story about someone explaining how they wound up with one by saying "I was young" or "I was stupid" or "I was drunk" or "I just cover it up when I have people over."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCR447BlTrc*

Forward to 2:50 mark. Granted he did have a job but I'm not sure this was his first career choice.

[Jason]

To me it's a basic risk vs. reward situation. It's like Twitter. No one has ever come up to me said "Man, you gotta read this tweet." Ever. I don't know of one famous tweet that has reached cultural relevance. Even one of Trump's. I can't repeat one. But I have heard stories of people tweeting stupid shit that has ended up with job loss or public disgrace. That's how I look at tattoos. The fact that people put them in places that cannot be seen all the time - tramp stamp - or in places that can be covered up when necessary, informs me that rational people know there is a risk/reward dynamic i.e. I'm being rebellious but I can cover it up if I get a job interview outside of bouncer or drug mule. My question is, "What is the benefit?" I honestly can't think of one unless "Cool tat, bro" flips your burger. And do people take time out to stare at their own forearm and say "This is an exquisite piece of art" to a picture of Yosemite Sam grabbing his cartoon nut sack?

Maybe prison is the exception as it could be a situation of survival. So for all the ERErs currently doing hard time, I understand. But only if you got yours for prison related issues, such as gang allegiance or when you found yourself inside without one and you had to pay the prison artist in loosies so he could burn "Thug Life" with a heated bic pen into your forehead so you don't look soft to the other convicts.

[horsewoman]

@Sclass: I really don't understand why you are so worked up about this. There is nothing at all contradictory about wanting tattoos but hiding them beneath clothing - a lot of people don't get them for show, but for themselves. You decide if it is a big deal for yourself or not, and this will have bearing on the placement. I was not sure at 19 if a tattoo would be ever against my best interest, but I desperately wanted one, so I put it somewhere not easily visible. Problem solved. I thought it a smart decision at the time, and have not regretted it. The emerging prevalence of tattoos might be a sign that I was overly careful, but that's OK, hindsight and all that.

Granted, I'm not the kind of person interested in a job "behind the gates" - obviously I could not have known that for 100% at 19. But again - anyone not smart enough to think ahead a little will like never come in the situation where a tattoo would cause problems. You also cherry picked my examples with the job at the grocery store... I know plenty of inked people working "behind the gates" in leading, higher positions. Or in the public sector, like police & customs officers and paramedics, nurses. So someone who wants a tattoo and is smart enough to place it where it is not likely to cause problems, will not be judged for it, since his "superiors" won't know about it. I must suppose that these people have found a good job despite their tattoos. This might be due to a different attitude to tattoos in Germany than in the US, IDK. Probably this has something to do with the high crime rate in the US and tattoos being somehow associated with prison inmates? EdithKeelers comment regarding the Hells Angels made me think of this. This is simply not the case hereabouts.

It is very hard to put into words what tattoos can give a person to someone who has not been bitten by the tattoo bug. Putting tattoos on hands or necks is beyond stupid. I totally can relate to @EK, I sometimes have derogatory thoughts about people with cheap/ugly neck and hand tattoos was well.
If anything has thrown stones in my path so far it was a) being a woman b) being a woman not afraid to speak up for herself. Those two factors have closed way more doors in my life than any piece of inked skin ever did. But this is obviously a different kind of story.

So I hope I have not ruined our happy "sewing affair" by being a tattooed gal @Sclass! You're one of my favourite forumites even though you are not tattooed Yes, I'm that large-minded! Happy new year!!

[Sclass]

I’m still on the fence whether they’re “stupid”. I have had a lot of smart employees with them. They didn’t show them in the interview process. But, they were talented people and good to have around. Certainly not stupid and quite capable of thinking about the future.

@EK Yeah I had the same issue with my mom’s caregivers. We didn’t have any issues. In retrospect I think the girls intentionally showed them to me to scare me. I suspect domestic help can be vulnerable to male employers. They’d immediately tell me a story about their boyfriend and flash a tattoo like a black hand which has uber street cred here in LA. All in friendly conversation but likely intended to warn me about getting the wrong idea about their terms of employment. It wasn’t necessary but I did get scared.

So maybe the ink had a benefit. I felt bad for them in that they felt it necessary to start off with me that way. It must be hard working as a full time domestic helper in some horny old guy’s home.

I used to really like swimming at the Jewish community center in Palo Alto. My friends explained to me the religious issue with tattoos and why you see so few in the pool area. The members looked like a classy bunch.

[Scott 2]

+1 Sclass

I have no tattoos and am generally indifferent to them. I have zero personal desire for the cost, pain, aesthetic or resulting attention.

My wife has around $8k worth, all custom. These include highly visible areas - mid and upper chest, both sleeves, and the side of her head. Relative to having that capital invested, I suppose they reduced our portfolio output by about $250 a year. Not an expense worth much consideration, IMO.

We had a lot of discussion before she did the first forearm. Realistically, while it might be possible to hide, we knew it wouldn't stay hidden. There's a professional trade off, but those roles aren't well suited to her personality. When the other visible areas were under consideration, she'd already fully disqualified from office work. From my perspective, by the time her head came up, it was an "oh, okay" moment.

The tattoos are all wasted on me, but she really enjoys them. I am confident she's derived more than $8k worth of personal satisfaction. For the most part, they are extremely high end, from top artists. I think the quality plays a big role in her experience. Price can be misleading. An artist that charges $250/hr might produce something 10x as good, relative to the $80/hr artist inking flash. Expensive artists are also fast, keeping total cost down.

She loves the appearance. She is regularly stopped and complemented on the tattoos. I'd guess weekly. It's an immediate connection with like minded people, but can also draw some unwanted annoying people.

Quality is the huge caveat IMO. A great piece of work, while alternative, remains effective class signaling. I've seen a number of coworkers get positive reception on new art. I think the amount of social disqualification is limited, especially with tactful placement and ongoing after care. My wife _always_ puts sunscreen on or covers them before going outside. They are aging very well.

On the other end - a cheap piece of flash, in a highly visible place, blurred out from poor after care - that does send a strong negative signal. I can't help but judge, despite my personal exposure and general indifference.

[GandK]

If I see a tattoo, and I get the opportunity to do it quietly, I always ask the bearer about its meaning. It's a great way to make a new friend. Really.

[Ego]

The title of this thread is, "Are tattoos stupid?" Inversion can often shed light on questions like this.

Are tattoos smart? Are they associated with smart people? Are people with the most tattoos generally considered the smartest people?

[7Wannabe5]

Low correlation with book smarts. Moderate correlation with street smarts. Higher correlation with art smarts.

[take2]

I wouldn’t get one myself mainly because I have no interest. I tend to devalue most material things over time (clothes, cars, etc) and I’m pretty sure even if I wanted a tattoo I would view it in the same manner. Something to get excited about initially but quickly turn into apathy and eventually regret.

I don’t judge others unless (as some already stated) they are on hands/face/neck. Good tattoos are great conversation starters for the most part. I wouldn’t worry about doors closing for any tattoo that’s easily covered.

What I’m more interested in is why people want tattoos in the first place. It’s another example of how humans are so different - I genuinely can’t fathom why someone would want a permanent mark of any kind on their body except possibly for sentimental/meaningful reasons? And even that I wouldn’t do so it’s just interesting really.

The whole art-on-the-body thing escapes me. I don’t like anything enough to carry it around for the rest of my life.

[Sclass]

So I hope I have not ruined our happy "sewing affair" by being a tattooed gal @Sclass! You're one of my favourite forumites even though you are not tattooed Yes, I'm that large-minded! Happy new year!!

Goodness no @horsewoman! At this moment I’m fantasizing about you sewing at your Juki with a lovely open back gown. And yes I do have some hang ups about this that I’m holding back. You are very perceptive. They were just a little too personal and revealing to bring up here. A little too painful to put into words...though I’ve written and deleted it several times for this thread. I was hoping to admonish readers without being too revealing.

Happy new year to you too.

[horsewoman]

Goodness no @horsewoman!

Phew! It felt a little "out of character", to be sure. But we all have our issues with some things, no?

What I’m more interested in is why people want tattoos in the first place. It’s another example of how humans are so different - I genuinely can’t fathom why someone would want a permanent mark of any kind on their body except possibly for sentimental/meaningful reasons? And even that I wouldn’t do so it’s just interesting really.

Like Scott2's wife I get a large amount of personal satisfaction out of my couple of thousands investment. Why the bug has bitten me initially I can only speculate. My dad has a medium-sized tattoo so maybe that normalized it for me since childhood. My first association with it was probably "trustworthy" because my dad is an inherently good person with a lot of integrity. Back then very few people had visible tattoos, and I was always kind of proud that my dad was different from other dads.

For me, my tattoos (3 separate pieces got over the span of 5 years, worked in a way to make it one interrelated piece of art by the same artist) have different functions, for lack of a better word.
- First and foremost, I simply prefer the look of inked skin, if done in a high quality - I totally agree with what Scott2 wrote about that. Why this is so, I don't know. I simply think it's hot, period. Even after 15-20 years of having them, it makes me really happy when I catch a glimpse of my back in the mirror. Totally worth it.
- On a practical level, I planned the outer shape of it to form something of an hourglass. I'm tall and slim, so I wanted to give my body some curves. This worked out beautifully. I also take care with it, covering up in the sun ect, so it ages well so far.
- Furthermore, they are something like a "badge of honour" for me. A small tattoo is not overly painful, I suppose - at least, I was easily able to sit through the first hour of my appointments. After 2 1/2 hours it gets down to business, and after 3 hours you learn a lot about enduring pain. You can do it in shorter appointments, but due to long waiting periods (getting dates with a well booked artist and necessary healing periods) I chose to do longer sessions. The pain and the voluntary enduring of it is pretty addictive. Just the right amount of dopamine and serotonin mixed in I suppose The knowledge of being able to endure this amount of pain has proven my own strength to me. I draw from this knowledge in extreme situations, like when giving birth turned pear-shaped. You have to sit very still for long stretches of time while enduring pain, this is like meditation on steroids!
- I already touched in an earlier post on the kinship effect or recognition of like-minded people. But I feel zero kinship with people who have low-quality jobs, and those with countless small shitty ink on their hands, necks of forearms. Tattooed rag rugs, that's what I call them.
- When I was younger I liked the "shock value" of it. @Sclass mentioned this, with the caregivers of his mother. I, too, used my tattoo in certain situations (while partying mostly) to send a message - and people got it. Don't mess with this gal, she's tough, and she doesn't care about conventions. Today you need "crass" tattoos to get this effect, I think. Like hand and neck tattoos.

That's some of it for me Dang, all this reflecting on tattoos makes me itchy again

[C40]

Yeah, tattoos are stupid.

And so are a lot of the things we do. Coffee? stupid. Alcohol: stupid. Candy: extremely stupid. Driving cars: always kind of stupid and sometimes deadly stupid. Wearing a suit: stupid.


I have two tattoos

One is on my forearm and visible most of the time - including when I was still working and usually had my sleeves rolled up. No one cared. The only reactions I noticed were positive. One could say that the negative reactions are not spoken, but for me, like most work roles, it wasn't going to matter. People knew that I was good at work. On the list of 100 things my bosses and influential people at work cared about, "whether C40 has a visible tattoo" would not even show up.

My other other is good art. It's big and bold. I like it a lot. Other people like it.

I want to get more and I most likely will get more over the next year. The cost is a fairly big deal because it's just art. But where I am, they are cheap. If I was still working and also spending most/all of my money, I'd have already gotten more.

[7Wannabe5]

The pain and the voluntary enduring of it is pretty addictive. Just the right amount of dopamine and serotonin mixed in I suppose The knowledge of being able to endure this amount of pain has proven my own strength to me. I draw from this knowledge in extreme situations, like when giving birth turned pear-shaped. You have to sit very still for long stretches of time while enduring pain, this is like mediation on steroids!

Gotcha. Pretty much the same thing I got from S&M, especially since my Dom was an experienced "artist" with the personality type/competence of a skilled surgeon. Knocked me right out of a bad rut of functional depression. The chemical haze is sometimes referred to as "sub-space" and subs often consider their bruises, which are sometimes considered for artistic effect, as badges of honor. It's kind of like runner's high, but magnified to the extent that you might become slightly hallucinogenic. I also lost around 30 lbs in 3 months. I think the closest thing a person could do which would be considered socially acceptable would be to contract a very tough personal muscle-building trainer and then follow those sessions with professional acupuncture and then go meet with a lover.

I think you will agree that this whole line of discussion emphasizes why it's better to focus on self-employment rather than narrow financial independence. You aren't out of the cave as long as you are still fretting about your "employability." Of course, over-coming your fear of death is the ultimate "f*ck you" quadrant.

[Frita]

I don’t have any tattoos. My question that has always given me pause has been, “How would this look when I’m 80 and would I like it?”

That said, well-done tattoos (especially tribal ones) can be beautiful. I like the look of full sleeves, big pieces rather than some little butterfly. Also, with the severity of my allergies and tendency to from keloid tissues, getting a ratio seems risky.

[Sclass]

Gotcha. Pretty much the same thing I got from S&M, especially since my Dom was an experienced "artist" with the personality type/competence of a skilled surgeon. Knocked me right out of a bad rut of functional depression. The chemical haze is sometimes referred to as "sub-space" and subs often consider their bruises, which are sometimes considered for artistic effect, as badges of honor. It's kind of like runner's high, but magnified to the extent that you might become slightly hallucinogenic.

Whoa...I’m feeling both frightened and aroused as I read this.

I think you will agree that this whole line of discussion emphasizes why it's better to focus on self-employment rather than narrow financial independence.

Now that says it best. It’s all about freedom at the end of the day.

[Peanut]

https://www.art.com/products/p150636782 ... artoon.htm

This cartoon was in the new yorker this week, made me think of this thread haha. Any truth to it or no? I wonder if other parents feel like they'd rather their children (not) get tattoos? And is it different for sons vs daughters?

I figured out part of my attraction to tattoos on guys is the pain aspect. Like scars, they're a visible badge of suffering. Tattoos can be beautiful on a woman too but I think my initial reaction is to cringe at the thought of her pain, even if I know she probably liked it.

[Jin+Guice]

Haha, you guys are fucking squares.

Tattoos are art. Some art is bad. Some art is good. Art quality is subjective. Stupidity is subjective.

@Jason: An object being art is defined by whether or not someone regrets buying it? No one has ever regretted buying a painting?

From a capital accumulation standpoint, tattoos are a waste of money. I guess physical artwork can theoretically be resold, but like, how are all y'all's fine art portfolios working out?

From a capital accumulation standpoint, traveling is a waste of money.

From a deep environmental standpoint, tattoos, as they are currently administered, are a waste of resources. I'm assuming they also introduce toxins into.... somewhere. Remind me what activities we're currently doing that don't do this?

I think the point of buying art is generally aesthetic, to be displayed as the art patron sees most fit.

@jacob: It's not functional, but one of my friends has a knuckle tat that says "calculus."

[7Wannabe5]

@Sclass:

Ah, but I was so much older then
I'm younger than that now

[Sclass]

From a capital accumulation standpoint, tattoos are a waste of money. I guess physical artwork can theoretically be resold, but like, how are all y'all's fine art portfolios working out?

I think the point of buying art is generally aesthetic, to be displayed as the art patron sees most fit.

https://www.artfido.com/man-creates-the ... the-world/

As a small child I saw one of these (not on a living person). Apparently they have resale value. It is permanently burned into my mind. A guy explained to me that all the modern ones done with electric needles don’t have the cred that ones applied with bamboo splinters commanded because of the level of pain endured. He was dismissive of the young people getting irezumi applied with electric needles.

Honestly till I read these informative posts I mistakenly thought the modern process was painless. Thanks for sharing here. Ouch.

This post got me thinking about some of my surgical scarring. Besides the usual incision scars I have some peculiar markings left by my arterial lines. The IVs didn’t leave marks but for some reason I have permanent discoloration under my skin from the arterial lines. I suspect it was either the dyes in the meds administered there or pen marks the surgeon made to designate the locations that got poked. Never thought much about it till this thread. I was frustrated they wouldn’t go away. I don’t like the roadmap on my torso and cover up at the pool. My millennial niece says it’s a badge of honor but I just feel I’m cut up.