May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

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EdithKeeler
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by EdithKeeler »

In reading this thread, it occurs to me how much we can over-complicate things (and I’m not casting shade, I include myself in the over-complicators anonymous group).

Seriously: if you like someone and want to be together, then be together. If you want to have babies, there are more ways than ever to accomplish that—adoption, IVF, donor eggs, get a puppy (my choice). It’s good to consider financial implications, but you’re never going to have perfect info. If you have doubts or concerns but still like each other, don’t get married or mingle finances, but be together apart.

This is an awesome time to be alive as regards those kinds of things—nobody has to get married if they don’t want to, there’s not much stigma around out of wedlock births, and science can make babies happen in lots of ways.

You can, however, analyze and plan all the fun out of it.

It’s not a bad idea to keep your hand near the emergency brake, but I really don’t think most people agonize and analyze this much about relationships. Pretty sure I don’t know anyone—except people on this board—who consider market attributes and moral philosophies when deciding to have a relationship....

My advice: Go have fun. Don’t think so much—get out of your head. Meet in person. Do you guys smell good to each other (my personal test for attraction). Use condoms. Take some trips together. Don’t get into financial stuff until you decide to get married or make a baby.

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Ego
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Ego »

EdithKeeler wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:23 pm
Do you guys smell good to each other (my personal test for attraction).
+100

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jennypenny
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by jennypenny »

I thought it was just me. Sometimes when DH is out of town I wear his jacket because it smells like him. Warms me up in all kinds of ways.


And now I’ve officially derailed this thread twice. Sorry. :oops:

Fish
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Fish »

Mister Imperceptible wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:08 am
After rereading parts of the thread, my previous comment seems unnecessarily harsh and not really warranted after the more recent posts. I apologize and will take that back. The quoted post helps me understand your operating style and I can relate better now.

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Mister Imperceptible
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

I am not a nihilist. I confronted that already. I am living with purpose.

I do have a lot of empirical data. Stories with women. My sympathies are always with them and, as I said in the OP (did you miss that part?), I do not like breaking hearts, because I have experienced it so much from the other side. When they cry, I cry with them. I feel their pain acutely. The superior quote from the Ben Franklin piece I linked in the OP: “The having made a young Girl miserable may give you frequent bitter Reflections; none of which can attend the making an old Woman happy.”

The woman I am talking with was hesitant to visit because she was afraid of breaking my heart. I said “My heart has already been broken 50 times. What’s a 51st time? The only assured way to not get struck by lightning is to never walk out the front door.”

I understand that, on the internet and in the current milieu, every man asking for advice on the topic of woman is going to be assumed an incel or red pill. It comes with the territory. But absence of love is not necessarily indicative of absence of sex. (Remember in the OP my dealings with the trophy wives?) I do not think desiring an attractive partner is misogynistic. I think it is natural and such desire exists for a reason. We’re no computers, we’re physical.

I also understand that the answer to every why begets yet another why (or why not) and by going beyond just asking plainly about IVF and freezing eggs, and allowing myself to become wistful on Sunday, I opened the thread up to a different conversation. I own that.

I will take a cue from Dr. Z and refrain from going on a never ending stream of consciousness rant. Because I will not be able to answer every subsequent why, at this time.

I am upset with no one.

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fiby41
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by fiby41 »

Mister Imperceptible wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:07 pm
. Stories with women.

Aka gossip
I do not like breaking hearts, because I have experienced it so much from the other side.
There's an implicit expectection embedded in that. You cannot sympathise past human nature.
When they cry, I cry with them. I feel their pain acutely.
And then you wonder why they break your heart? If you can't be an immovable rock in such situation don't be there!
You can read generalised background information about my girl if you want to in my journal. There I've mentioned her dad died when she was 15 years old. I can guarantee you she'd have monkey branched long ago if I'd have joined her in the wailing.
You are hereby allowed only 1 let's sit down and cry moment for the entirely of your relationship.
The having made a young Girl miserable
No morals were instilled in me so remorse I don't feel any.
none of which can attend the making an old Woman happy.”
I don't mind as long as that woman's my mom.
The woman I am talking with was hesitant to visit because she was afraid of breaking my heart.
Perhaps she knows you won't be able to take it as you still haven't mustered the mental fortitude by the 50th time
I said “My heart has already been broken 50 times. What’s a 51st time?
Self depreciation is unattractive.

assumed an incel or red pill.
You care too much what other people think of you to be easily manipulated/brokenhearted.
I do not think desiring an attractive partner is misogynistic.
fiby41 wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:27 am
I have a two bullet point check list when looking for someone to be romantically interested in: attractive, available.
going on a never ending stream of consciousness rant.
MI is so hawt there's a stream of consciousness running down my thigh.

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unemployable
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by unemployable »

I'll tell you what, you've succeeded already. In getting us to care about how this infatuation with this chocolate unicorn of yours will eventually turn out.

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Lemur
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Lemur »

unemployable wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:12 am
I'll tell you what, you've succeeded already. In getting us to care about how this infatuation with this chocolate unicorn of yours will eventually turn out.
Its a bold move cotton. Lets see how this one plays out :D

reepicheep
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by reepicheep »

This thread has been utterly fascinating.

A couple of years ago, I experienced a watershed moment in my understanding of relationships and the possibilities they brought. I'd left a marriage just three weeks prior and was on the hunt for the kinds of activities Marquis de Sade only dreamed of.

That watershed moment came when I met a man in his 50's with multiple partners and a number of happy playmates and former lovers of all ages, many of whom are friends with each other. I am happy with him, two years later, and independently both friends with and intimate with other partners of his. He is not my only partner; indeed, I have a girlfriend I introduced to him. I enjoy more group sex now than any other variety. I don't know anyone else who manages so much relating with so little drama. He's been at this a long time. Many people find him very attractive.

He does not talk like you, MI. He is present. He listens. He creates a safe space. He brings passion and drive to his interests, which are many -- and include his talents in bed. Women flock to him because he sees them. He understands that other people see the world in ways fundamentally different than him. He brings no expectations or projections to his relationships or interactions. He is open to hearing, "No." He encourages, he supports, but he does not take responsibility for other adults. He does not build co-dependency or look for women who cannot take care of themselves. He owns his own shit. He respects his own and others' boundaries. He does play games with power, but only with people who want to play those games. There is consent and a shared language when he pretends to play with power -- none of this background manipulation/shady underhanded vibe you've got going on.

I met him and I realized that I do not have to meet and date and move-in with and marry and make babies and die with one person to have an amazingly fulfilling sex or romantic life. Or life, period. I met him and I realized that the purpose of relationships is -- or can be -- just to have fun with other humans. To learn about them. To understand them. To build joy together.

***

You want to have a child.

Why, exactly? Just to pass on your own "good", tall genes so your descendants can live in whatever hell-hole creates your predicted genetic bottleneck? How fantastically selfish. Your grand-kids won't thank you any more than you seem inclined to thank your relatives for the gift of being alive.

If you have some other reason for desiring fatherhood, and the child simply MUST be genetically related to you, there are many ways to make that happen without a partner in the picture. You can solve this problem with money, which seems to be your primary pursuit at present and thus more available to you than a willing womb.

You want to be less lonely.

There are many solutions to this problem. I suggest you start by hiring an experienced sex worker and cuddling with her. If you're feeling bold, I suggest paying her (generously!) to explain to you why you're struggling to find someone who meets your criteria for a mate. You might need more than one session. I suggest soliciting different opinions from different people.

These two desires are not related. You believe that the solution to your problems is to find a single someone who will fuck you, touch you, give you a kid, and not take your money. This is not the solution, it is simply a solution.

Jason

Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Jason »

Sorry MI. I knew giving them computer access was a bad idea.

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Mister Imperceptible
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

reepicheep wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:48 am
He does not talk like you, MI. He is present.

.....

You want to have a child.

Why, exactly? Just to pass on your own "good", tall genes so your descendants can live in whatever hell-hole creates your predicted genetic bottleneck? How fantastically selfish. Your grand-kids won't thank you any more than you seem inclined to thank your relatives for the gift of being alive.

......

I suggest you start by hiring an experienced sex worker
It is good for you that you are happy with your life.

You don’t know me, even after reading whatever poor representation of myself I have given on the internet.

I agree, I am, like most people, selfish.

Thank you for passing judgement on the relationship I have with my grandparents, and seeing clearly what my goals might have to do with paying homage to them.

If I hire a sex worker, I will tell her as we are cuddling that my grandparents endured poverty and suffering so I might have the luxury of enjoying the moment and being present with her.

Jason

Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Jason »

Mister Imperceptible wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:47 am

If I hire a sex worker, I will tell her as we are cuddling that my grandparents endured poverty and suffering so I might have the luxury of enjoying the moment and being present with her.
Interesting. My Pop-Pop, who survived the depression, told me he endured poverty so that I could hire a sex worker in order that I wouldn't ever have to cuddle like he did. Those were actually his dying words to me.

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Mister Imperceptible
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

Lessons from the Great Chain of Being

reepicheep
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by reepicheep »

You're right, MI, I don't. I, like anyone here, can only know you via your writing.

That's a lot to put on a kid. Kind of like scribbling out what they're going to be when they grow up and putting it on an index card on their crib.

"You exist to honor your ancestors and fulfill my Confucian dreams!"

"But daddddd, I just wanna go skateboarding!"

Most kids who grow up in modern America don't have a strong connection to their ancestral line. Such connection comes with a sense of place and an intact community with robust cultural traditions. Most of us move too often for same, or our family does. Maybe you'll raise the exception. Maybe they'll love you for it.

Sensing a theme here. Lot of expectations you have for other people to fit into your pre-determined narrative, even people who don't exist yet.

It'll be interesting to see how it all works out.

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Mister Imperceptible
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

I’m sensing a theme here too. Lot of expectations you have for other people to fit into your pre-determined narrative, even people who don’t appreciate insults to their honor or insults to their filial relationships.

Jason

Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Jason »

reepicheep wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:26 am

Sensing a theme here.
"A theme?"

This thread is The Disney World of bad ideas. Nothing personal MI. I understand Ted Bundy did a better job representing himself.

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Mister Imperceptible
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

I have to cut my teeth somewhere

Jason

Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Jason »

Don't be humble. A train wreck of such a magnitude that it is impossible to derail because it was so severe before it even left the station? Celine Dion should be singing along to this.

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Mister Imperceptible
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

I am not sure which train wreck you are referring to? I am not beholden to the Overton window of others.

You will note that I attack ideas. It is others, running short of ideas, who attack the person.

7Wannabe5
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Re: May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

I think what reepicheep was attempting to communicate is that you are making the very common mis-step of projecting your own internal concept of the ideal feminine on to a real human female. The problem with this is that when/if the real human female exhibits behavior outside of the Venn Diagram of your Ideal, you will not be able to cherish (or respect) her appropriately. Women often make the same/opposite mistake.

The advantage gained through a bit of experience with overt play with dominance and submission (or other roles) is you can keep the eroticism inherent in strong dichotomy while also accepting flawed reality.

IOW, if I attempt to explain it more simply, you really just need to find some nice, reasonably attractive nerdy girl and when you get to know her and it seems like she likes you, then you can tell her "I crave an Alpha Woman. Can you play that for me sometime?" , but you ought best be prepared to anticipate/meet what she might also desire from Alpha or beta man in that scene.

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