May-December Relationships, In-Vitro Fertilization, Freezing Eggs, and Other Considerations

[Ego]

@JuliusFC, I am glad you said so. I felt bad when I wrote that above but I am confident that it's got all the hallmarks of a scam.

There was a big story a few months ago about a group of people pulling a similar scam on deployed military personnel.

@MI, have you actually seen her on video during the chats? If so, you may want to start record them.

[Mister Imperceptible]

We have texted each other everyday for a month and I have video chatted via Skype with her over a dozen times, our calls averaging over an hour each.

.....

she has agreed to cancel the trip she had planned to visit her alumni, and instead has booked a plane ticket to see me for a weekend instead, because I am unable to take time off work. She paid for her own plane ticket, and for the hotel she plans to stay at.

.....

I had been asking her about her investments because I want to help her.

It is I who broached the subject of her investments.

I have verified her Facebook profile and LinkedIn profile as well. I won’t be paying a dime until we have dinner the first time.

There is no need to feel bad, I appreciate the concern.

[Mister Imperceptible]

That’s all fair Augustus. Peter Pan might have to grow up one day but in the meantime, having a hot girlfriend might be better than being perpetually alone.

I mean, she's not asking for money (yet). That’s new. My last date said she couldn’t even meet me without me providing gas money.

[Mister Imperceptible]

I think it’s cute that people paint me as someone who is reading red pill/incel materials because it makes me out as a caricature that conveniently fits their narrative. The only “articles” I have been reading are on Epsilon Theory, Of Two Minds, Peak Prosperity, and Daniel Amerman’s website. On subject matters non-financial, I read books.

[Frita]

“Donor egg” IVF is expensive, can take multiple attempts, and is emotionally difficult, especially because of the meds. The female serves as her own gestational surrogate. That is assuming you don’t have any fertility issues yourself. Unless the couple is all-in, I personally wouldn’t recommend it.

[Gilberto de Piento]

Are you prepared to clean up after bad economic and other decisions for the rest of your life? Someone who admits they have no money because they have been tricked and scammed a number of times and then gives their retirement account credentials to an internet stranger has not learned their lesson. Maybe you can teach her, but maybe she will just make a bigger mess with your assets.

+1 to those saying beware of a scam.

At some point you mentioned something like you are very attractive on some dimensions and unattractive in others. Are the weaknesses something you can address (said as someone with a few weaknesses myself)?

[C40]

My advice though is skip all that power dynamic psychobabble.... Life is short, be kind, have boundaries and say no politely but firmly when necessary, but mostly it's about love and kindness, otherwise there's no point and you're better off alone.

+1 big time. Good relationships include a lot of love, kindness, curiosity, etc with a partner one respects and admires. A hugely important result of them is growing better as a person/lover. Feeling to be the one 'with the power' may be good for relationships that are primarily sexual, but in a serious relationship are likely tied to not respecting or admiring the partner much, and will prevent personal growth (aside from improving tactics of control - bad habits for relationships). And - for folks who aren't narcissists or some other bad type of "'ist", will get boring and unfulfilling quickly.

[Edit - I originally had questions here that I later removed, but M.I. responded. They were:
- What is her PHD in
- How is it that she gets herself into trouble/does stupid things like getting scammed out of $10k, not saving anything for retirement, giving someone she hasn't met her financial account login info
- Is she smart in her field but also naive/aloof/~street stupid?]

[Mister Imperceptible]

She’s a Doctor of Health Administration. She is a mental health counselor for servicemen and servicewomen. She says it’s very taxing and she appreciates that I listen to her with patience, in the same way she listens with patience that have to go to her when she is working. Despite the age and sensitivity she does have a bit of naïveté- think TopHatFox

I know people in her community who are broke/losers/alcoholics have latched onto her like a parasite, like the guy who stole $10,000 and was always drunk, and as I said above she probably gets the Uncle Tom treatment for being successful, and the religious conservatism is a guilt multiplier. I told her it would be different with me- I would educate her in financial matters, and she does need a lesson in fiscal discipline/deferral of gratification. She has worked in Europe also and she wants us to learn French, Italian, Spanish, and Swahili together. I said let’s start with French or maybe Italian and go from there. I’ve been very calm and patient and she was like a brick wall for the first 3 weeks. I eroded that wall and she started to open up more when it was clear that I was different. I think it was partly who I am, and partly that she finally received her mother’s blessing to date outside her community, and so she took a leap of faith.

[Mister Imperceptible]

At some point you mentioned something like you are very attractive on some dimensions and unattractive in others. Are the weaknesses something you can address (said as someone with a few weaknesses myself)?

AGREEABLENESS 1

.....

OPENNESS 93

Some things are hard to change. Other things never stop changing. I can be hard to get along with, and hard to gauge. I cannot give up on my ambitions for the sake of a woman and so far it hasn’t seemed possible to have one without giving up the other. I was in over $100,000 of student debt, earning less than $50k per annum and living in my parents basement as recent as 5 years ago.

[slowtraveler]

I had the same experience as Augustus. Dating a woman over 11 years my senior at 20 years old softened my heart and taught me how to trust, forgive, and love more fully. We're still close friends and I'm grateful for the experience.

It's the way you talk about power dynamics as if that's the center of a relationship. Relationships are about love and connection. My girl probably decides more than I do about our travel plans-cheap food/rooms/transportation. I stopped caring about the power dynamics and I have more success/happiness now. She just wants to know you're strong enough to stand up for her, to take action when it's needed, to handle having enough money for the family to live comfortably and happily.

Good luck with it. If it ever doesn't work out, have a girl take some good pictures of you and use those for online dating. Then, move to Thailand or somewhere else where you are percieved as exotic/high smv and you'll have lots of girls to date. Never in my life had a woman I met online here ask for money. Only western women even expected me to pay every date. Women here consistently paid 20-40%. Dating lots of women will shine a clear light on your patterns.

My challenge is that every girl eventually acts crazy and starts big fights over things I percieve as tiny, still trying to figure this one out. I'm sure there's something in me either triggering it or attracting women like that. I hope to figure it out as this will likely continue no matter where I go.

[Jason]

I would educate her in financial matters, and she does need a lesson in fiscal discipline/deferral of gratification. She has worked in Europe also and she wants us to learn French, Italian, Spanish, and Swahili together. I said let’s start with French or maybe Italian and go from there. I’ve been very calm and patient and she was like a brick wall for the first 3 weeks. I eroded that wall and she started to open up more when it was clear that I was different. I think it was partly who I am, and partly that she finally received her mother’s blessing to date outside her community, and so she took a leap of faith.

Early Romanticism Extreme

[fiby41]

Do not pedastalise a woman. I try not to. I have Goddesses for that purpose.

Be present with her.

Not necessary. Familiarity breeds contempt. My girl thinks she has been with me for 3 years and 4 months but I have only 'been present with her' for 7 days during that time period. That's giving her a day for every 6 months.

We have texted each other everyday for a month and I have video chatted via Skype with her over a dozen times, our calls averaging over an hour each.

This is something I could improve on. I use technology as a buffer to actually interacting face to face. Now I know better that the whole purpose of online interaction should be to set up a face to face interaction.

if someone hasn't settled down and had a family by 45,
that's for a reason.

They say there are a lot of fish in the sea but that is because some people are putting the catch back in the water for a reason.

a woman who is financially secure isn't going to put up with that for long even if they decide to at the beginning, a woman who isn't financially secure is likely going to find someone else as soon as they can and jump ship

IMO it is the other way around. Those women who have their long term provisioning need covered by job or inheritance, shop around longer and jump ship more often. The cost of transition is less and they have nothing to lose but everything to gain.
I wouldn't have to provide the emotional highs and lows or manufacture indignation if my girl was of the same economic spending level as me.

I am not in the least threatened by a successful woman,

This is a false narrative put up. Most men are not threatened, they are just indifferent, dont find it un/attractive either way.

like the guy who stole $10,000 and was always

We humans have the capacity to rationalize almost anything after the fact. It's not stealing if she lend the money and he never returned it. Only theft if he broke in and took it from a locked vault. If he is not in jail, he did not steal it.

I would educate her

Saviour schema aka Captain save a ho

[jennypenny]

That seems kinda harsh.

[unemployable]

at worst it sounded like it came out of a bunch incel/redpill forums.

Far more incel than red pill.

From how frequently various elements of the vernacular pop up, in this thread and others, red pill theory seems to have a fair number of adherents round here.

OP has what they'd call oneitis. I had it too once, although I'm quite relieved it occurred before the internet was commercially viable. They will tell you the frequency with which oneitis ends well does not significantly differ from zero.

[Sclass]

Hey good luck with this. I’ve read the entire thread and I’m blown away and cringing.

I’m really looking forward to hearing how this works out. So much if it just sounds strange.

[Eureka]

Then, move to Thailand or somewhere else where you are percieved as exotic/high smv and you'll have lots of girls to date.

This is irrelevant advice as MI is looking for a woman with genes that will result in a tall child.

[jennypenny]

I feel like we get (sometimes woefully uninformed) people asking for advice on a range of topics, and generally the questions are treated respectfully. No one is expected to know everything about education, investing, money management, gardening, etc. I'm not sure why this topic is any different. MI isn't a new member and he contributes frequently to other threads, so it's not like he's trolling. We all have to learn things somewhere (let's face it -- if we'd all been born with a clue about money/lifestyle management we wouldn't have needed jacob's book and wouldn't be here).

I was really pleased to see some of the more experienced guys trying to nudge MI in the right direction and point out some of the bigger flaws in his approach/thinking. The thread had moved in a positive direction and people were trying to help him ... which is why seeing women interrupt that conversation just to shit on him or his ideas seemed rude and counterproductive. It also reinforces stereotypes in his cohort about women in general. That doesn't seem helpful, here or in a general sense regarding attitudes towards women.

sorry to derail the thread a bit ...

[7Wannabe5]

I agree with jennypenny. MI comes off a bit goofy, but I don't get any vibe of scare-scare level misogyny off of him, unlike some of the red pill types.

Having had more than a bit of online dating experience myself, I can state for the record that weird stuff, especially instant intimacy behaviors, can happen, even between two otherwise fairly normal or at least harmless, individuals. And it is also true that what an individual is like in person can vary a good deal from "writing voice." For instance, one time I was really regretting agreeing to meet a man, because he was so mushy-over-the-top when writing. I even purposefully dressed down for the coffee meet and greet. Then it turned out that he was 5X better looking than his photo, quite buff, and in possession of deep voice sexy, masculine grew-up-in-neighborhood-where-West-Side-Story-was-filmed accent and manner. So, then I had to hustle into the restroom ASAP to fix my look. I have also had the exact reverse experience on more than one occasion. Did I once agree to fly down to Birmingham, AL (on his dime, of course ) to meet a man for the first time? Yes, that thing happened.

Anyways, while it is true that most women are going to gag a bit if/when handed a cup full of sickly sweet, luke-warm, weak whip devotion upon short acquaintance, there are a good many masculine qualities that auto-magically come off like hot strong dark roast and serve to balance a naturally overtly romantic manner. For instance, consider many of the male characters on "This Is Us."

Also, I can hardly find fault with some of MI's comments given that I used to include the line "According to an article I read in Discover magazine while waiting for an oil change last week, it is likely that I am attractive to most human males because my waist to hip ratio is less than .75." in my dating profile. There's probably a way a nerdy guy who likes sex could signal in a manner more likely to be amusing than off-putting. I will give it a ponder. Well, duh, obviously Woody Allen before he went icky-over-the-edge.

[Jason]

I have empathy for anyone seeking human companionship. It is necessary unto life. And I too was once certain a black leather clad Russian Spy was going to femme fatale her way into my bedroom window and tell me I was the only one who could help her save the world and we'd take off in her red Ferrari to a life of never ending intrigue and front seat 100 MPH blow jobs. I just happened to be 16 at the time and thought Spy Magazine articles were non-fiction.

But the bottom line is that OPotpourri of every 21st century single male metanarrative found under the internet sun was seasoned with an unsettling strain of "I won't name it", that disturbing enough unto itself, was made all the more unbecoming by its arm linked embrace of "woe is me." You want to cut and paste some first semester undergrad Nietchze, I can live with that. We've all done that. But if you're going to make that move, I for one, am certainly not going to provide an affectionate nudge. There's some reprehensible shit in there and all I see is doubling down. Someone wants to take a seat at the table with that, fine. Just don't think everyone is going to just listen in and then affectionately muss your hair as though its all just a bunch of misplaced naivete. 16? OK. Benny of the doubt. 32 years old? Uh fucking nuh.

[fiby41]

we'd take off in her red Ferrari to a life of never ending intrigue and front seat 100 MPH blow jobs

If it was her ferrari who was watching the wheel