Mens Fashion

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Jin+Guice
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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by Jin+Guice » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:35 am

@jacob: Well based on this answer it seems that, not surprisingly, you do actually know what you're doing and have thought through this realm of our lifestyle. I guess that's why you're the guru, haha.

jacob wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:17 am
It seems pertinent to note that in terms of functional clothing, looking good loses to being able to walk 4 miles at any time, sprint, lift heavy stuff, not be cold, warm, or wet, and most importantly, not be subject to dog hair or rips. Ideally, it would contain lots of pockets too.

Business, business-casual, or "English gentleman" simply doesn't meet these objectives as well as outdoor/military/work wear.
If you demand 100% functionality and the ability to sprint at all times, I agree that genteel clothing isn't going to work. Why do you need to sprint and lift heavy stuff all the time though? I usually know when I'm going to be doing one of those things beforehand and I wear different clothes. I guess this would be a problem for extreme minimalists, but 1-2 more pairs of clothes doesn't bother me, especially since they're not just lift heavy stuff clothes, but garden/ live sound/ comfortably lounging/ lifting stuff clothes. T-shirts/ jeans can look good and be functional as well. I think you could accomplish 80-90% of the functionality you seek without compromising fit/ look.

jacob
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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by jacob » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:41 am

Jin+Guice wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:35 am
Why do you need to sprint and lift heavy stuff all the time though?
All part of being an international man of mystery 8-) Seriously though, I'd be changing clothes 4-5 times a day if I had to work around clothes-imposed limits.

Seppia
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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by Seppia » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:43 am

Jin+Guice wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:35 am
Why do you need to sprint and lift heavy stuff all the time though?
WAIT
Maybe Jacob is actually Tom Cruise under disguise

jacob
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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by jacob » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:45 am

Jack Reacher, dude.

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C40
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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by C40 » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:05 am

jacob wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:21 am
It seems to me that fashion is more about seeing and being seen compared to doing. I really wear what I think is the most optimal for what I do around the house.

......

Well, I think I have. I actually did have a minor phase during my consumer years when fancy clothing was an interest of mine. Admittedly this was mostly due to running out of other things to spend money on. I'm fortunate in the sense that I'm relatively tall as well as height-weight proportional. My BMI is 23 but I'm in excellent shape, so denser than the average specimen, and this means that I can find suits that fit me off the rack w/o alternations. MW suits includes a tailor fit... well, whenever I've bought suits at $250+, the company has usually had a tailor check the fit. I've never owned anything bespoke though.

It seems pertinent to note that in terms of functional clothing, looking good loses to being able to walk 4 miles at any time, sprint, lift heavy stuff, not be cold, warm, or wet, and most importantly, not be subject to dog hair or rips. Ideally, it would contain lots of pockets too.

Business, business-casual, or "English gentleman" simply doesn't meet these objectives as well as outdoor/military/work wear.
[Disclaimer - because you (Jacob) don't care that much about fashion, this might not be useful or interesting to you,... but it may be for others here reading the thread]


It seems like you are equating 'fancy' (wearing suits and such) or expensive with fashion or looking good. The two are only partly related. I'm quite surprised that you are looking at it that way. (Of course, maybe I'm misunderstanding, and also I do understand that you are not specifically interested in looking good and that there may even be some benefits to looking unfashionable).

What we (well, for sure me, but I believe the others) are talking about in this thread when we say fashion is:
#1 - and mainly - wearing clothes that fit well (in a way that is both comfortable and looks good)
#2 - Not wearing clothes that look weird/ugly.

Here is an example of good fashion:

Image

Image

(the shirt actually doesn't fit him perfect, IMO it should be a bit more snug around his mid torso, but it's close enough to look good)

That shirt is:
- Simple
- Cheap
- Comfortable
- Looks good
- Related to the work/projects he does**

The shirt isn't worn just for looking good**. It's just his clothes, and his clothes look good.

**Ignore for a moment that this was actually for a movie and just assume this is a guy in real life and his clothes (for when he does projects/work) are like this.

I do work on my bicycle, van, and motorcycle and the clothes I wear can end up dirty a bit like these. One might think they are signaling blue collar / low class. But... they are also signaling 'handy', 'resourceful', 'knows how to fix things', 'not afraid to get his hands dirty', etc. I've had many occasions where women see me in my clothes like this, or see me actually doing the work, or see posts on Instagram and such of projects I'm doing, and they find it super attractive.

oldbeyond
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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by oldbeyond » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:09 am

I guess for me there's an internal ROI (I guess you call that vanity). I feel better wearing chinos/nice jeans + shirt + sweater + brogues/boots/nice sneakers, so I do. Because of buying quality where it's worth it (shoes, coats, bags, knit sweaters, jeans, belts), thrifting, maintaining/mending and being able to combine most stuff (not all combinations work, but most), it's quite inexpensive. It makes my GF happy which is an important consideration, but I don't think it has made that much of a difference with colleagues/clients. So the external ROI is likely quite context dependent.

Augustus
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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by Augustus » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:03 pm

Jin+Guice wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:35 am
I usually know when I'm going to be doing one of those things beforehand and I wear different clothes.
I have a pair of gym shorts and some older permanently stained tshirts I switch into before doing manual labor stuff, don't you guys value not smelling stinky? My body pumps out a ton of sweat and what I'll call "musk" when I'm doing hard labor. My wife says it's attractive, but I don't think so haha..

Jin+Guice
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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by Jin+Guice » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:05 pm

@jacob/jack_reacher: Haha, 4 to 5 times a day? You must be sprinting a lot more than you let on.

@oldbeyond: Thanks, this is a succinct summary of what I've been trying to say.

@C40: This is on the money. I'm only making this sightly hard because, after a lifetime of wearing ill-fitting t-shirts, I'm enjoying wearing fancy clothes and nerding out on this a bit. Going the jeans/ t-shirt/ boots route is trivial, unless you absolutely refuse to care at all. I agree with you that this is the most efficient route in that it is both the easiest and the cheapest.

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C40
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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by C40 » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:13 pm

Augustus wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:03 pm
I have a pair of gym shorts and some older permanently stained tshirts I switch into before doing manual labor stuff, don't you guys value not smelling stinky? My body pumps out a ton of sweat and what I'll call "musk" when I'm doing hard labor. My wife says it's attractive, but I don't think so haha..
I do still bathe :D

Personally, as long as I clean my body once every day or so, I don't get stinky. If daily, I'm pretty sure I don't need to wear deodorant. (though I did just recently make my own first batch of deodorant and I like it)

Augustus
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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by Augustus » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:23 pm

I'm civilized until I do heavy labor, but when I do heavy labor I go animal smell mode. I'm fairly certain it's designed to attract mates, as I have heard it's very attractive from several women who got whiff of my arm pits after some heavy labor. I'm sure it's a turn off for other types of women, but man that stuff must be laced with a ton of pheramones, because some of them just go nuts for it. Like my wife will straight up tackle me and sniff, and I'm just sitting there thinking, you're really weird honey..

I don't like the smell personally, hence the gym clothes and generally a shower right after.
Last edited by Augustus on Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

theanimal
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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by theanimal » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:30 pm

Jin + Juice- Care to share the links you enjoyed reading about fit and construction?

I only have a handful of shirts that actually fit me well. When I wear them, I get women looking me up and down, even ones I've known for a long time. As of now, I'm not entirely sure where to find such shirts. Maybe I should just get more of the same.

Something worth noting (and I think it's been mentioned by Jacob and others before) that the more fit you are, the better you look in your clothes.

Jean
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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by Jean » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:16 pm

A manly smell is a part of a men's style. Hiding your smell will deshumanise you and reduce your opportunities with women.

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Bankai
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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by Bankai » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:27 pm

Does hiding your body under clothes dehumanise you as well? What about hiding your 'natural' hair by getting a regular haircut?

Speaking of the smell of sweat, perhaps you'll increase your opportunities with some (likely a small minority) of women while turning off the vast majority of them. It's also not very helpful in most other social interactions.

Personally, I consider the smell of sweat as a very good indicator of other negative traits, similarly to being obese.

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C40
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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by C40 » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:32 pm

Well, there is a big difference between B.O. (sweating and then stinky bacteria growing) and a person's own natural smell (which is, for example, what your shirt may smell like after wearing it for a couple days (if you don't have BO))

Somewhere between those two are a sort of musky scent, which I believe is what Jean is referring to.

(not sure whether this is conjecture or actually known for sure) - There are potentially very important biological factors carried or detectable in the way a person smells. I don't mean B.O. here, I mean the natural or musky smell described above. When smelling a potential mate, one can detect that something is "off". I've certainly had that. Where I just don't like the way a woman smells and it doesn't feel right. Supposedly the smell may carry some information related to genetics, immune systems, etc. relating to the likelihood of having better children together. Some even suggest that one could save a lot of time by smelling a person's shirt after they've worn it before even considering dating. There actually some kind of dating events where people actually do this. It's like speed dating but you just smell their clothes instead of interacting.

Masking your smell with perfume or cologne is, IMO, a no-no. I'm put off when a woman smells perfumed rather than like a person or like nothing. (though some do a good job by using light amounts of certain essential oils that work well for them)

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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by C40 » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:37 pm

Bankai wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:27 pm
Does hiding your body under clothes dehumanise you as well?
A tangential thought on this relating to the thread subject: the simplest way I would try to describe well-fitting clothes is that when you see a person in clothes that fit well, you can tell what their body looks like naked.

Jean
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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by Jean » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:43 pm

If you're inhabited by stinky bacteria, people have a right to know in order to avoid you.
I'm serious, If your smell is bad and requires to be hidden, you have an other more important problem that need to be found and addressed.
My feet smell very bad when I wear shoes. Not wearing shoes solves this -> shoes are bad for me. ERE is about getting the freedom to make those nescessary choices.

Peanut
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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by Peanut » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:53 pm

jacob wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:17 am

What do you think Zuckerberg's nerdy hoodies cost?
If they are Loro Piana cashmere then $2-3k, and if they are Vince a mere $400. I just read about this in an amusing nyt article on the wardrobe costs of that Billions show, where I learned Steve Jobs’s turtlenecks were a designer Japanese brand. I think I assumed he was wearing Gap.

Personally don’t see the point with such basic basics, but maybe he liked the feel.

Augustus
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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by Augustus » Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:40 pm

C40 wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:37 pm
when you see a person in clothes that fit well, you can tell what their body looks like naked.
I've always throught womens spandex was cheating for that reason. You could be 100 lbs overweight and spandex will make you look toned with flawless unwrinkled skin.

AustinM
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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by AustinM » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:01 pm

I hate women's gym clothes, but it is hard and uncomfortable to perform in baggy things. The material of my workout shirts is so thin that you can see everything. Check my tips here.
Last edited by AustinM on Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jin+Guice
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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by Jin+Guice » Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:24 am

@theanimal:

This is the most important one, because it's about fit:

https://restartyourstyle.com/1018/shirts-fit/

Here's the one I use for construction/ quality:

https://propercloth.com/reference/high- ... ess-shirt/



I didn't scour the internet looking for the best article, I just found the top hit that seemed like what I wanted.

I found these articles by googling "how to tell if a dress shirt fits" and "how to tell if a dress shirt is well made," if you replace dress shirt with whatever article of clothing you're looking for one of the top 3 hits on google will generally have what you're looking for. Like I said, it's pretty much a cake walk.

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