Mens Fashion

Simple living, extreme early retirement, being wealthy, ...
jacob
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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by jacob » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:11 pm

Jin+Guice wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:18 pm
However, I would rather own quality clothes that look good and force me to learn how to take care of/ repair them.
Ahh, self-imposed maintenance chores. You're gonna rue this one :lol:

I'm not sure whether "fashion" is its own category like business, casual, or business-casual? Before construction begins, you need to define the goal criteria. I missed this in case "fashion" really was a goal in which case I don't even know where to begin.

In Chicago as a stay-at-home cult leader, I really only have two goals which reflect the climate temperature: hot as hell and cold as fuck. The high-quality solutions here are

1 pair of [tactical] shorts (from 5.11 in my case) for the former situation (call it summer aka hot as hell)
1 set of [worker] insulated coverall (from refrigiwear) for the latter situation (call it winter aka cold as fuck)

I could have a third capsule for when I have to look civilized. This would be something like what I wore in the youtube interview; alternatively, I could pick and stick with a dark grey suit + turtleneck which is what I use for interviews.

What's my point? This would theoretically work for ALL my needs. I do have more clothes than this but this more than anything reflects having relocated from one climate to another faster than I've been able to wear previous clothes out. As a result, I now own clothes (pants, t-shirts, ...) that I can only wear effectively for a few weeks a year, mainly spring and fall. Of course this would change if I was morally willing to gun the HVAC harder thus establishing a more uniform indoor climate that was more out of whack with what nature offers at my location but I'm not. Therefore, we need to know what climate and function you're aiming at first. I've run into minimalists who wore a classical suit at all times ... talking them into going hiking was quite a challenge. Oh yes, the point... the point is that I could ditch the rest of my wardrobe. (It's not big .. about the size of the one you proposed anyway.)

Insofar fashion just means "looks good", the problem with quality is that it's best if quality matches throughout. This also holds for areas outside of clothes. If you upgrade one part of a whole, then suddenly the rest begins look shabby in comparison. This begets upgrading something else ... and now you have a fashion-inspired hedonic treadmill. One thing that happened to me when I tried this was that I ended up with a bifurcated wardrobe. One part had ratty clothes and the other part had fancy clothes and the two could never cross making for a huge lack of minimalist inefficiency. So if you do go that way, you will eventually have to choose a side. I chose not to play.

Jin+Guice
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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by Jin+Guice » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:54 pm

@2B1S an THF:

If it's not clear by now, I am a hipster douche bag.

@Jacob:

You're the reason I'm self imposing all these maintenance chores, it was your idea. Have you had a change of heart?

I hear you on the uniformity of quality however I'm not sure this is true for clothes. A piece of clothing can be well made but poorly fit or poorly made but well fit. I think you could also downgrade with less formal wear. For example, if you have a fancy suit then you should have a reasonably fancy dress shirt. However, you could pair the reasonably fancy dress shirt with only decent jeans. The jeans then pair with the polo shirts and the t-shirts which in turn don't need to be that fancy.

I don't find dressing for comfort that difficult or maybe I just don't mind being uncomfortable for a little bit while I'm walking around or biking. If it's hot I wear less clothes unless I have a reason not to. At home I always dress for comfort so I can keep the HVAC as high or low as possible, but I'm not getting the suits to wear at home, unless I'm having a party.

The ultimate minimalist with the suit might not be able to hike but a pseudo-minimalist with a suit, fancy shoes, jeans and running shoes would.

Also, if you're goal is to have only 20 or so clothes, and well made clothes last a long time, then this isn't much of a problem?






Yesterday I learned how to darn my socks. It's really easy, though I don't know how long the holes will stay closed and the socks are kind of deformed on the bottom now.

jacob
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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by jacob » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:55 pm

I might have missed the goal. What I'm talking about is the kind of maintenance that only exists for its own sake, like, for example, ironed shirts, polished shoes, or handwash-only sweaters. Some find that meditative. I do not. However, if we're talking patching, darning, and fixing loose threads, I'm all in.

There are three ways to solve the suit problem:
1) Get promoted to a position (literally) where you stand more ;-)
2) Make sure to get suits in colors that combine with jeans or chinos so you can combine the lonely jacket with those after the pants die. You can also "break" some suits and use them in different combinations as long as the materials go together.
3) Discover the wonderful world of "suit separates". Often these are lower-quality pieces (so for people who work and wear them out sitting on their ass) unless you get them bespoke. In this case, buy X pairs of pants for each jacket. Traditionally (when it was invented) a suit became a thing because it showed that the owner could afford a lot of material of the same kind which used to be unusual (recall that people counted their bolts of cloth as part of their networth a few hundred years ago).

In my experience, longevity correlates with whether it was designed for sports or the outdoors. For pieces costing under $50 each---on sale---I don't see much connection between price, brand, or fancy materials. Personal experience only here. Come to think of it though ... much of my unbreakable sporting gear, some of which is 20+ years old, cost more than that, so ... grain of salt. I'd suspect it's the tacks and the ripstop weave that makes the difference though.

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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by prognastat » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:00 pm

handwash-only sweaters are right up there with non-dishwasher save dishes with things I dislike and are frequently gifted by others.

Clothing can be a tough one as determining quality as expensive doesn't necessarily correlate with price. You can find very expensive clothing that isn't durable at all.

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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by Jin+Guice » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:27 pm

@Jacob: The maintenance is to increase longevity so things like darning socks and replacing buttons are what I'm going for.

As far as suits go they are purely for recreation. I work in a hospital so my work clothes are scrubs provided by the hospital. The pants for all of my suits have died while the sports coats live on. Is there a solution to this problem? I have had some luck thrifting pants that match the coats well enough.

I'm not opposed to dropping some serious $$ for clothes, but if I do I want them to last more than a few years and look really good. I'm currently running the experiment with jeans and shoes.

All of my clothes pretty much go with all of my other clothes including the suit jackets. I like to wear suit jackets instead of actual jackets.



Update on the fashion experiment, I tried to buy jeans from goodwill but they didn't really have many mens jeans so I went to Buffalo Exchange. I tried a bunch of pairs on (I used to just buy the least expensive dark blue pair that was my size). There are apparently a lot of differences even in the same size, the main one for jeans being fit. As noted above I am a hipster so I bought the skinniest pair I could find. They were twice as expensive as the cheapest pair. I also learned that I can fit into 1 waist size smaller than I thought, which was part of the purpose of trying a bunch of pairs on. I'm now going to buy a fancy $100 pair from the internet and see if they look noticeably better and then see which one gets a crotch hole first. It usually takes about a year for the cheap jeans to die so we'll see how these stack up.

I bought $200 shoes with a goodyear welt (the cheapest new pair I could find) from the internet about a year ago. They were extremely uncomfortable and cut my heels at first but they broke in nicely. I clean/ condition/ wax them about once a month (less than 10 minutes each time). I do still really like them; however, I've worn through 2 soles and fucked them up pretty badly from walking about and biking so much. There's a pretty good cobbler in town and I've spent another $180 having them resoled/ heeled. This is partially because the first sole was shitty and I wore through it in <3 months. They also fix all of the blemishes in the leather for free when you get the fancy (aka longer lasting) soles. All and all this is a wash, I'll probably end up spending slightly more than I was buying used sneakers every 15 months or so but I don't have to throw them out every time they are broken. On the other hand the heel and sole are getting thrown out every time so is that much better?

The next thing I'll need to buy is dress shirts. I'm going to try buying from a thrift store vs. made to measure off of the internet. First I've got some research to do to make sure I'm picking out the right size and fit. I feel kind of dumb for not realizing this but, trying the clothes on first and looking at myself in a mirror was hugely informative.

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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by jacob » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:56 pm

As mentioned above, the solution to the widowed jackets is buying suit separates(*) or somehow finding matching pants elsewhere although in theory that's supposed to be impossible but if "well enough" is well enough, who cares about rules.

(*) Not gonna find that in thrift stores though.

My pants die because the seam of back pockets grind through the seat of the pants either when sitting or when washing. This is solved by wearing pants w/o back pockets. These can be worn threadbare afterwhich they fail spectacularly (split down the middle). I see no way of saving the latter situation as the pants are worn out by definition. WRT inner thigh chafing, I suppose losing weight so the thighs don't touch while walking? Otherwise I don't know. Bicycling obviously being a very very effective way of murdering pants.

You could try installing taps on your shoes. It will make your walking loud and people will think of you as "that guy".

In general, the most durable/price-efficient clothes is workwear that has yet to be discovered by hipsterdom. For example, Carharrt used to be affordable and last forever. Now it just lasts forever, but soon that might go too. It's what happens when things turn into a fashion brand. OTOH, Patagonia is now trying to come at it from the other side by making really expensive work clothes :? This shows how the world is slowly going insane. Nothing makes sense anymore.

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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by BRUTE » Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:23 pm

suit jacket + dark jeans w/o tie == silicon valley VC chic. t-shirt under the jacket works, too, if worn ironically.

Jin+Guice
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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by Jin+Guice » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:56 pm

@Jacob: I'd never heard of suit separates before. Is it different than buying a blue suit jacket and similar blue suit pants in a thrift store? I don't think anyone mentioned thigh chafing though weight loss is the only effective solution I've found to this problem.

Is there any way around the bicycle problem besides getting biking shorts?

I think I might enjoy having a loud walk, I really enjoy the wood soles as opposed to rubber.

@Brute: There seems to be more leeway when you are a somewhat dirty hipster. I wear t-shirts and polo shirts with suit jackets all the time and all I get is compliments.

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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by Jin+Guice » Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:12 pm

Update:

I completed the outfit by buying a dress shirt that I actually tried on and holy shit wearing clothes that fit is fucking amazing. There is some serious nerd shit around learning about all of this that I've really been enjoying. Just googling how to tell if a shirt fits and is a quality garment and then finding a shirt that meets most of the requirements is actually a pretty rewarding experience. Maybe it's just the good ol' American consumer in me. Also, just by trying a little bit you're kissing the 90th percentile for the best dressed man anywhere but NYC.

The expensive jeans turned out to be bullshit. I've got 2 pairs of thrift store skinny jeans that are still going strong and cost less together than the 1 pair of internet fancy pants. The next stop is a made-to-measure shirt. If I ever get fit enough to see abs, I'm rewarding myself with at least one bespoke suit including a bespoke shirt. I regret thinking that trying in this department was lame for 31 years.

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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by BeyondtheWrap » Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:41 am

Jin+Guice wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:12 pm
I completed the outfit by buying a dress shirt
A dress shirt, or a “casual button-up”? I was annoyed when I learned that they’re not the same thing.

oldbeyond
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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by oldbeyond » Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:46 am

In my experience, if you manage to buy garments that fit your body, you're definitely a 10%:er. Add some basic sense of which textures, colors and patterns that go together well and you're a few percentage points higher. If you're not working in a field where appearances are very important, and you remain laid back about clothing, then you will really stand out.

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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by Jin+Guice » Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:47 pm

BeyondtheWrap wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:41 am
A dress shirt, or a “casual button-up”? I was annoyed when I learned that they’re not the same thing.
I don't know what this means. Explain yourself!

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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by vexed87 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:45 am

Jin+Guice wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:56 pm
Is there any way around the bicycle problem besides getting biking shorts?
If you find it, let me know. I've ruined the crotch on many pairs of casual trousers cycling too. Some trousers seemed to last longer than others, but it's a crap shoot when it comes to finding what works. I now wear lycra exclusively whilst commuting and minimise trips out on the bike in my 'decent' clothes. The Levis commuter line seem to be doing ok, but even some of them are close to wearing through only 12 months in.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:55 am

@Jin+Guice:

For instance, a button-down Oxford cloth shirt is not a dress shirt and any shirt that requires cuff links almost certainly is a dress shirt. BTW, untucked rolled-up white Oxford cloth, crisply ironed,well-fitting jeans, with thick watch or snapped leather on wrist worn by seriously shouldered man is one of my favorite classic looks. Highly recommend as first coffee date ensemble.

OTOH, worst outfit worn by a date was golf shorts, short sleeve polo shirt, and tasseled slip-on shoes. Both looks are towards classic/preppy, but one is sexy and the other is NOT. Fashion can be a subtle thing.

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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by prognastat » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:02 am

I don't bicycle all that much, not at all until I moved in January, and the crotch blowing out is still the thing that always fails on my jeans. One of my current sets is starting to show wear there and probably won't last much longer, but I wear them just about daily and have for the past 12 months or so.

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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by Gilberto de Piento » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:14 pm

Regarding biking, some friends like the polyester ( I think) Dickies work pants but I've never tried them. I wear bike clothes on long rides and the short rides don't add up to enough to kill jeans, though the do get faded where the seat makes contact.

vexed87
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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by vexed87 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:48 am

jacob wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:11 pm
In Chicago as a stay-at-home cult leader, I really only have two goals which reflect the climate temperature: hot as hell and cold as fuck. The high-quality solutions here are

1 set of [worker] insulated coverall (from refrigiwear) for the latter situation (call it winter aka cold as fuck)
Saw this and thought of you. You may not have realised it, but it looks like our cult leader beat the trend! :roll:
https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/201 ... ve-as-ever

jacob
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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by jacob » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:53 am

I do that a lot :P :?

Salathor
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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by Salathor » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:21 pm

I find that jeans, even top quality jeans, rarely last more than about 300-400 wears even with rare washing. If you move a lot or use them for work, you wear on stress points (usually knees). I have found this limit to be the same in $20 and $50 jeans. From my cursory glances, I assume that you get less wear with each dollar you spend above that. Jeans get fancier, not better.

Other than the fact that he sometimes looks like a scary hobo (which is cool) I think Jason Mantzoukas dresses cool in an outfit that is timeless, fits in nearly any environment, and would cost like $60 brand new.

Image

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Re: Mens Fashion

Post by Jason » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:40 pm

That is either the most bow legged person I have ever seen or someone photoshopped out his stool and cello.

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