Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Where are you and where are you going?
Scott 2
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Scott 2 »

Yep, FI is a false idol. No reason the days heading there should be miserable.

The biggest sums of money I've needed so far, have been $30k to get a loan on too much house and $18k to buy a very comfortable car in cash. The one time I stopped work for six months, a little freelancing came my way and covered expenses.

IMO at $100k of net worth, I had long passed money as the limiting factor for happiness. Mental burdens were self imposed, driven by fear and inexperience in life. The changes I made, to harvest benefits of my "financial freedom," could have been done anyway. Money was not the limiting factor.

I am not any happier at FI than I was at 21, freshly graduated with $50k debt. Barring terrible childhoods, life increases in challenge with age. At times those challenges made me less happy, typically when I prioritized other people's stress. It doesn't take money to choose not to do that.

I do think being poor sucks. Maybe 2 years of expenses is where money stopped removing stress.

Scott 2
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Scott 2 »

I assume Stahlmann is referring to the financial opportunities available in the US vs. his country. Yes, it's fantastic. You might get shot at the Walmart, or bankrupted because you get sick, but getting money is stupid easy.

prognastat
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by prognastat »

I don't think I'd say I'm unhappy, rather my wish for FI stems from a wish for the freedom to do as I wish. My emotions are generally quite tempered lacking extremely high highs, but also not tending towards low lows without significant environmental influence. As such my goal is rather to remove elements in my life that bring lows, I don't believe it in itself is capable of producing highs. However removing lows will boost your average experience of life. From there it's up to yourself to improve your life to increase the highs. Things I do currently are participate in hobbies I enjoy, improve my physical health through diet and exercise, and improving my mental and physical health through improved sleep. I'm also looking to improve my social life through participating in hobbies with a social element and being better about initiation conversations with people and hopefully improving the amount and quality of friendships through this.

Through a combination of these improving the positives in my life and the pursuit of FIRE reducing the negatives and also increasing the time/energy available for the former I believe it is possible to improve your happiness some. There's also some indication though that a large portion of your happiness is internal and very hard to change long term. That there's a certain level of happiness you are pre-disposed to experiencing.

Scott 2
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Scott 2 »

I am finding an absence of lows mutes the highs.

prognastat
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by prognastat »

What about voluntary lows vs involuntary ones though?

Taking on challenging things and struggling can be seen as a low or the lead up to a high depending on your perspective. I wouldn't consider these actual lows. They are very different to the lows that are forced upon your by others/your environment.

I would agree if you even excluded voluntary lows this would reduce the amount/mute the highs. But I haven't experienced the reduction of involuntary lows to affect my highs.

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Mister Imperceptible
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

I fluctuate between ecstasy and depression. I suppose this makes me a terrible Stoic.
Scott 2 wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:47 pm
I assume Stahlmann is referring to the financial opportunities available in the US vs. his country. Yes, it's fantastic. You might get shot at the Walmart, or bankrupted because you get sick, but getting money is stupid easy.
If the US bubble pops it will be to the detriment to those who thought it would never end. And those who were depressed beholding others ecstatic should be ecstatic to find everyone depressed.

Scott 2
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Scott 2 »

I suppose there is a spectrum between voluntary and involuntary low. Sure, removing a splinter from your finger will only be positive. Avoiding a big event because you don't want to deal with traffic, it's a trade off. Pay the premium for an Uber to drop you, you might find out that half the fun is parking a mile away and walking with your friends. Perseverance through shared adversity feels good.

Kriegsspiel
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Kriegsspiel »

I think when I first started working I was the most satisfied life-wise, because I felt like I was doing something rewarding and important. I was also happy because I was around a lot of similar people. At the time I didn't know anything about FIRE, or investing (didn't even know what a stock was, or interest rates or anything), so any money I didn't spend just accumulated carelessly in my checking account for years on end, so accumulating wealth had zero effect on my well-being. I wonder if a lot of people are unhappy because right out of the gate they work at a corporation with people who have been soul-killed? I think working in a university could be a good thing for you.

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Jean
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Jean »

Working in an university was the worst experience in my life. A nice comany can be much better.

Salathor
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Salathor »

We've got enough money to be FIRE if we sold and moved somewhere cheaper, although it would probably be tight. I don't feel any wealthier or more relaxed than I did when I had less money.

I feel relaxed/at peace when I take time to focus on happiness itself--the thought of it, being grateful for life/family, etc. Focusing on DOING things that make me happy (games, skill learning, etc.) has never really helped. As I get older I'm becoming more and more convinced that joy is really a thing that exists outside of daily circumstances, and one can be just as joyful in FIRE as at work. That said, I still think FIRE would be more FUN than work, so it's worth pursuing--but I'm no longer allowing myself to push back joy until then, because I'm more convinced than ever that it won't help.

wolf
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by wolf »

I couldn't have guessed that you are an introvert TopHatFox. That's quite a surprise to me, because you seem so extraverted in the forums. INFT is quite an interesting personality type. I read a detailled description about it. What does your introverted intuition say to all this? I mean with moving to another city, happiness in life and decisions in life in general? What are your most important values in life?

classical_Liberal
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by classical_Liberal »

Credit to an old book I read some time ago, Happiness is a Serious Problem: A Human Nature Repair Manual. Missing tile syndrome. A person can have a beautifully constructed tile floor, and if only a single tile is missing or damaged all of our focus is drawn to that singular spot.

I say this partly to reinforce what @theanimal and others have said about contentment coming from within. There will always be something missing, something that could be better. We have to learn to accept the missing part and enjoy the remaining hundreds of tiles. OTOH, we can certainly take action to improve the external, but should do so carefully. Second order effects can leave us worse off than before AND it's very important to understand externals are not static. We can bore of the job we once loved, or some people from our awesome social circle may move away, etc. If too much energy is focused on fixing the one missing tile, we can lose out on the enjoyment of everything else while it's in place.

More pragmatically, I would advise anyone who is content with life to enjoy this period of their life, because it will not last. Do not focus on the glaringly missing component while things are going well, enjoy the present. As we float down the river of life, externals will change. When this happens do not hesitate to make changes to reinvigorate contentment. I think this hesitation, or focus on what once was, is what gets most people who have otherwise learned to ignore the missing pieces(mastered internal). This is the point to work on what was missing before, choose a different area to have a missing tile in the next phase of life and see if the external is better than the last. We can have almost anything we want, just not everything.

For someone who is definitely currently discontented. First, learn the internal (ie there will always be missing tiles, how will you cope?). Then the external (ie how do I want to set up my next floor, and where should I place the missing tiles in the next experiment/phase of life)

Salathor
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Salathor »

classical_Liberal wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:22 pm
There will always be something missing, something that could be better. We have to learn to accept the missing part and enjoy the remaining hundreds of tiles.
We call this the philosophy of "Don't look so close" in our house, and it's surprisingly applicable to both real life and to satisfaction with home maintenance.

TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox »

Hm, I tried switching my Okcupid to Missoula/Bozeman and got like 0 people. I don't know if that's because the young people are so counter-cultural that they meet only in meat-space, or because there are just no people there. lol

With this weird online-dating tourism, it seems that somewhere in the front range of CO would make more sense. Maybe find a smaller, inexpensive borough like Greeley, CO, to live in. At least if the area is sparse I can go the town over. If I'm in Missoula or Bozeman, the nearest city is a state over.

--------------

I've also been thinking that the best working solution while accumulating, frankly, is REMOTE WORK. Truth is, I have no direct experience living in most of the US, so it's stupid to try and pick one place and hope for the best. Much better to continue accumulating and try out places 3-month's at a time. I really want to buckle down and find some sort of 40-50K remote job I can do out of a souped-up Sprinter or Class B RV. Most modern jobs are in an office, but most of the work is by a computer. I don't even see most of the people I e-mail most of the time. Why not just travel and work? Like, this is the difference between saving 500K by early-thirtys and barely knowing anything about the world, and saving the same amount but having traveled extensively, having a mature opinion about different places, and optimizing your chances of piquing the interest of a long-term girlfriend. It's a more balanced way to live and work.

It's decided. I'm gonna try my hardest to make sure my next job is a remote job. Should be interesting to see the results from this newly-minted resolution. C'mon people, I got a job on Wall Street with a Geology degree lmao, I can do this. :lol:

thegreatvoid

Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by thegreatvoid »

Dude , you are way to obsessed about women. Cant make life decision based upon where the best pussy is.

Remember you are the prize! Your sexual market value will only increase with Time.

Plus you come off was to desperate. Women can small that from a mile away

Salathor
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Salathor »

I went to the RV show last year to see if we could find anything that we could bear to live in. It was TERRIBLE. I spent my youth RVing with my parents and everything we could see now was cheap pressboard garbage even at the ~$130k level for a new RV. The class Bs were nice, admittedly, but they cost the same as a condo in most of the US.

Obviously you could buy used, but man was I disappointed in the cost:value on the ones I saw.

classical_Liberal
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by classical_Liberal »

Check out used Chinooks. They are high quality, small, and you could pick one up for under 20k. The disadvantage is that they are obviously RV's, so stealth is out the window. Personally, I don't think most manufactured Class B's, even the sprinters, are very stealthy anyway. They are easy to pick out from the cargos.

Salathor
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Salathor »

TopHatFox wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:41 pm
this is the difference between saving 500K by early-thirtys and barely knowing anything about the world, and saving the same amount but having traveled extensively, having a mature opinion about different places, and optimizing your chances of piquing the interest of a long-term girlfriend.
I don't know if having traveled extensively actually improves your change of getting a girlfriend or not. It may give you a more informed opinion about different places, and your stories could certainly give you an "in" as a means of starting a discussion, but I really think that women are drawn to personality rather than world-travel experience.

I would suggest being confident and kind. I have yet to meet a woman who hasn't been attracted to confident and kind guys. Kindness alone doesn't work, and confidence without kindness might help for dates but not find a girl for long term/marriage.

TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox »

The woman thing is a nice side-benefit. I just want to be able to see the world a bit. Travelling extensively and overcoming adversity helps develop personality methinks. Farming in the same place is limiting.

Scott 2
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Scott 2 »

You already have enough to travel the country for years. Look at what C40 spent. Look at what Victor is doing in Hong Kong. You don't need a remote job, just a decision to go. I bet you could take a year off after the Masters and find job prospects only improve. Work could even find you along the way.

It might not be FIRE money, but it's definitely FU money. I think using it to explore these questions is much better than chasing an idealized goal of financial freedom.

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