new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

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7Wannabe5
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:37 am

Oddly, you guys are actually supporting Jean’s theory by demonstrating that the perceived risk of paternity is currently very high.

In my experience it is pretty difficult to get to the level of “despise” within the context of an open contract. I can also imagine a character like Elaine having and often leaving a kid with a wilderness adventure version of Kramer.

Jean
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by Jean » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:28 am

Many answer to this as if my goal was to exchange daycare for sex. It isn't.
It just that very few men want to have children now.
Many women would like to have children but they can't because they aren't ready to lose their career, or more often, because they don't meet a man who could give their child a nice future. It tends to be smart women who feel like this.
I would be offering this futur.
I think it might be true because
1) I'm willing to be a full time educator for my child (and yes aimed number is more 8 than 50, it's just that most women don't seem to want more than two, 8 child from 1 wife would be fine too)

2)A feeling that it might be an advantage to bear some similitude with me in the futur is the only explanation I can find for why women are attracted to me. I don't check the usual boxes(rich, famous, strongly driven). I look like a hairy bum, and that's mostly what I am. I have no game of some sort.

An ongoing love relationship with one of the mother might be ideal, but there would be no point in requiring all the women to stay infatuated with me their whole life.

Jason
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by Jason » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:16 am

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:37 am
Oddly, you guys are actually supporting Jean’s theory by demonstrating that the perceived risk of paternity is currently very high.
As his theory gains traction beyond the confines of this board, I'm sure there will be colloquium type of events where Jean Theorists and Gene Theorists meet in order to discuss the compatibility of basic principals, a fuckfest that will no doubt produce a plethora of evidence that either confirms or falsifies their findings.
Last edited by Jason on Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

7Wannabe5
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:19 am

Eh, the whole man biologically destined for provider role thing has been more than a bit overworked. In many tribal cultures, the men mostly function as big hairy bums who hang about shooting the shit and preening and only occasionally heading out on a hunt to add some portion of kilocalories and nitrogen to the pot.

Seppia
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by Seppia » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:33 am

Jean wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:48 pm
They wouldn't have to support me, only pay insurances and some food for the kids.
Wait so your angle here is “you get to share me with other women but I’m not afraid to be a dad and you only have to pay insurance and chip in some money for the privilege”?

I’m not really bullish on your enterprise, but I wish you all the luck in the world.
:)

Mister Imperceptible
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by Mister Imperceptible » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:11 am

“From his point of view, "this is not a failure or success - it is a fact, and [gives us] new information that we did not have before this experiment".”
Jason wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:16 am
produce a plethora of evidence that either confirms or falsifies their findings
Go Genghis Jean Go!

jacob
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by jacob » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:32 am

There seem to be easier and more effective approaches in existence. Lets draw a Venn diagram.

1) Become a teacher. Teaching propagates culture and memes. An inspirational elementary school teacher with a life long career influences and determines many more children than the 1-2 or 8 that one can influence as a parent. It is also possible to "raise adults". That's what my focus is ... although sometimes it feels more like I'm running an adult daycare center :?

2) Become a sperm (or egg) donor. This propagates your DNA much further than you can do "manually". It also comes with plenty of medical screens to ensure that your DNA is actually worth propagating.

3) Become a foster parent. If you do a good job, you can have family relations with more children than would otherwise be practical. You might even establish your own clan. Think https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gracie_family

In the intersection between all three is the traditional nuclear family. Nuclear influence is small in quantity, but it is higher in complexity because it involves all three. I think proper strategy should reflect one's talents. I don't think my DNA is particularly good and I don't enjoy parenting random children, so I seek to contribute to the world via (1).

JamesR
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by JamesR » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:47 am

jacob wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:32 am
2) Become a sperm (or egg) donor. This propagates your DNA much further than you can do "manually". It also comes with plenty of medical screens to ensure that your DNA is actually worth propagating.
This step doesn't seem particularly easy, there's usually screening, and selection (even if you're free of genetic diseases). There's no guarantee you can disseminate your DNA maximally, or at all. You'd almost have to become a fertility doctor and pull a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cecil_Jacobson but that's not very nice. Other option is to be enormously attractive w/ the most highly sought after traits in terms of height, hair/eye color, etc or be famous in some manner (i.e. Einstein) in order to have highly sought after DNA in the fertility market.

Jason
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by Jason » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:27 pm

Seppia wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:33 am
Wait so your angle here is “you get to share me with other women but I’m not afraid to be a dad and you only have to pay insurance and chip in some money for the privilege”?

I’m not really bullish on your enterprise, but I wish you all the luck in the world.
:)
When you put it that way, isn't it just the Uber model extended to procreation? You don't even have to change the driver or rider categories.

suomalainen
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by suomalainen » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:55 pm

jacob wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:32 am
although sometimes it feels more like I'm running an adult daycare center :?
Wait. You work in the white house now?

7Wannabe5
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:33 am

@jacob:

Other options might be breeding dahlias, training police dogs, running a small business in which you have a partner and employees, or making a career as a wet-nurse :lol:

That's why I say that most modern adults are polyamourous by mid-life, even if not fully sexualized. For instance, returning to my sitcom example, in Seinfeld, Jerry is obviously the "parent" of his group of friends, because they are most frequently clustered near his kitchen. In exchange for providing higher proportion of resources, he is able to exert higher level of control over operations (or vice-versa.) His front door which he locks and unlocks as he admits his friends into his domicile represents the masculine energy inherent in parenting (territorial imperative, exhibiting care through exclusion)and the food in his kitchen represents the feminine energy inherent in parenting (placenta, breasts, hearth, exhibiting care through inclusion.)

So, in a situation involving open contract between adults, who are at a level of maturity and experience to recognize sexual infatuation or romantic limerence for what it is, problems with "sharing" are not very difficult to resolve, because Elaine does not own Jerry or the crackers on Jerry's counter any more than George owns Jerry or the crackers on Jerry's counter, and they both possess either ownership or access to other realms in which they may fill any variety of leader, partner, peer, or follower role.

OTOH, since my father was my primary parent, and I had 3 sisters, I am chuckling at the notion of Jean dealing with 8 teenage daughters all trying to get ready to go out on Friday night given his current bathroom accommodations. In some polygynous cultures with relatively easy divorce provisions in which men are routinely granted custody and females are granted adult status at age 13, the girls often choose to go live with their mothers at that age. In those cultures, men also can't financially divorce a woman and take custody until child is weaned. So, that is something Jean might want to take into account given that reductionist/reconstructionist nutritional science has not yet devised true replacement for complexity of breast-milk or the associated experience towards human development.

Jean
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by Jean » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:59 am

Getting ready for friday night, will probably include a three hour walk. So they'de better use the lake down by the city instead of my bathroom (which will include a shower and a wood heated hot tube, by the way).

sky
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by sky » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:16 am

I'd be afraid of getting shot by an angry, conservative father of one of the brides.

7Wannabe5
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:23 am

@Jean:That might work. We lived on a small private lake when my sisters and I were teenagers, and we frequently had to carry our bicycles and clothing while wading along the lake to the other shore in order to access the rural highway that led to the roller rink, the ice cream store, and the public party lake, often colloquially referred to as "bare ass beach." Of course, given your very attractive genes, if you do end up with 8 teenage daughters, you might have more trouble with keeping any or all of the neighboring youth off of your turf.

@sky: Right, and Jean is also maybe forgetting about the possibility of acquiring 8 mothers-in-law.

The Old Man
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by The Old Man » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:59 am

https://www.gov.uk/legal-rights-for-egg ... erm-donors
https://family-law.freeadvice.com/famil ... gation.htm
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2012/ ... aintenance
Depending on the facts and circumstances a Sperm Donor may still have responsibilities beyond the donation itself.

EdithKeeler
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by EdithKeeler » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:17 am

Reading through this entire thread, I have no idea why a woman would sign on to this. There seems to be absolutely no upside for the woman. Or the children, for that matter.

I also disagree with the premise that “many men don’t want to be fathers.” That’s not my experience at all.

This looks like a better deal if you want to make lots of babies: https://www.coparents.com/searchmatch.p ... country=US

https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/201 ... ine-sperm/

7Wannabe5
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:34 am

EdithKeeler wrote:I also disagree with the premise that “many men don’t want to be fathers.” That’s not my experience at all.
I agree. However, "relatively few men on this forum want to be fathers" might be true. This could be due to above average possession of tendency towards maintenance of territorial imperative over larger than average resource base. This tendency does correlate well with intelligence across species, but as with all things, too high of a level within individual (as opposed to population) might actually reduce ability to produce and raise viable offspring.

I mean if you took rationality towards self-preservation to the nth degree, and projected forward two generations, and threw in more than a modicum of risk-aversion, highly unlikely that an individual would ever even choose to have sex at all. Generally, it takes a female exuding almost super-human level of the attractive dense energy qualities associated with chaotic hot mess to overcome this tendency. The usual hand-him-a-drink-and-crawl-up-on-his-lap-and-loosen-his-tie protocol will likely not prove adequate. Only long-term solution I can come up with requires possibility of cloning Shakira.
Last edited by 7Wannabe5 on Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

EdithKeeler
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by EdithKeeler » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:36 am

I was just thinking about the men in my circle who are /were stay home dads. One is my stepbrother—he married a woman who eventually became a Navy admiral. His staying home allowed her to have a great career and finance the family. Three kids. My college roomie is a DC lawyer. Her husband stayed home and raised their three kids, allowing her to do her thing. Another guy married a surgeon and he stayed home with their 4 kids. One is married to a woman I used to know—they had twins, he stayed home the first few years, and I remember that by the time they were 8 the kids were fluent in both Japanese and English and played about 4 musical instruments.

That sort of arrangement seems to offer a lot more than your scenario. A woman who is a good earner and not crazy is most likely not going to want to share either the man or other resources with other women or their children, imho.

Jean
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by Jean » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:16 am

Thank you for you input. This discussion is a lot of fun and very instructive.

Jason
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by Jason » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:47 am

I hope your dissemination is as fruitful as that found on this thread.

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