new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

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Jean
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new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by Jean » Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:54 am

This is kinda the opposite of the MGTOW strategy. I really would like to discuss this here, because on a MGTOW place, it's going to be flamed and no insight will be gained from the discussion. I remind you what is in my opinion the most important rule of this forum:
Please assume that everyone is well meaning, reasonably smart, and have good reason to have reached his conclusion about life and people with the experience he had. If you have very bad opinions of some group of humans, please focus on the experience and information that led you there, and not on your final judgement, which might just sound insulting to people who don't have your experience. Those recomandation are addressed to EVERYONE, even if you are on the culturally admited right side.

After this long (hopefully unnescessary, but better safe than sorry) disclaimer, here is my question.
I agree that many divorce are going to be very unfavorable to men, this is both due to some bias, and to the fact that often, men take a provider role, and court will expect from them to keep providing after divorce.
In addition, many women choose to make a career, which delay the time when they want to start a family.
There are much less incentive now than before for women to settle for a middle-tier(in women's judgement) man because marriage isn't a must anymore. This combined with dating app that gives some (but apparently many) women an illusion about what they can expect to settle for, makes it very hard (for everyone for that matter) to form stable couples.
This result in many men having a very bad time with women. Priest (religious or military) career are much less an option now, but the technological option to cope with sexual frustration seem to become available. This would allow to peacefully have many unmaried men.
The MGTOW strategy is to get away from women altogether and focus on what makes you happy outside of women.

My "new" strategy would be to be at stay at home dad for several "wives"("" are because in many places, you cannot legaly marry several women).
Many of the behavioral trouble in single parenthood seem to be linked to an absence of father more than to singlehood itself. So if your kids all have a dad (you), they'll have a great chance to be well raised adult.
One other advantage, is that the wives will be able to be mothers AND have a fullfilling career with minimal arm to their child (when compared to a crowded anonymous daycare).
If one wife wants to leave you, no court is going to give her your home, because it would deprive many children of a home.
Many women will be able to share the same man, which contrarily to the opposite situation, will allow the population to be maintained. It allows several women to have what they think to be the best man.

This is of course only possible if single men have ways to cope with frustration. I personnally know that forced singlehood turns me into a wild beast (which ironicaly then attract women), and I would probably start thinking about stealing women and bringing them to kerguelen islands after a few years, but sex dolls seems to be ok for many.

I honnestly would be fine doing this with only one wive, but it seem so difficult to many women to find someone to have kid with, that I think this kind of arrangement will emerge as more and more common (even if not for me), and most women I talked to about it seem to be open to the idea.

I'm very interested on you opinion on this way of living. I wouldn't like this discussion to be about MGTOW, because i feel that experience of different people here are to far appart from one another's for the dialogue to stay nice. If you need to comment about MGTOW, please do it in a way where you try to gain insight on the opposite view.

Jason
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by Jason » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:17 am

Jean wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:54 am
My "new" strategy would be to be at stay at home dad for several "wives"("" are because in many places, you cannot legaly marry several women).
lol@"new"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith

2Birds1Stone
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by 2Birds1Stone » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:15 am

Jean, Mormons. Mormons, Jean.

Jason
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by Jason » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:37 am

My thought was that Jean was going to have difficulty attracting just one woman to shit into that pipe, and here he is envisioning multitudes.

Because he seems like a nice enough guy and I too once naively dreamt of such a life, I am volunteering to be a "witness" to the event of Jean sitting on his shit pipe, innocently conducting his own business, scrolling through the ERE forums, when the Angel of The Lord flew out of the pipe, directly into Jean's asshole, took hold of his body, at which point Jean was lifted bare assed above the shit pipe as though God himself was pulling him up directly into the heavens, and began uttering unspeakable truths, one of which was that Jean is to father many nations through multiple wives. I'll even take time out to jot down some commandments on a piece of toilet paper or a leaf or whatever Jeans uses to wipe his ass so he has real corroboration that this actually happened. I guess that will make me a kind of minor prophet but that seems like a good gig to segue into once I can quit this real estate nonsense.

Jean
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by Jean » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:02 am

Nothing is new, i agree.

Jason
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by Jason » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:27 am

Jean wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:54 am
Many women will be able to share the same man, which contrarily to the opposite situation, will allow the population to be maintained. It allows several women to have what they think to be the best man.
If you are not interested in the Joseph Smith cult route with its accompanying issues of infrastructure and hierarchy, you always have this option:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceberg_Slim

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C40
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by C40 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:32 pm

It's possible... but... Execution would only be possible for a man with extremely polished relationship skills, and would still take HUGE amounts of effort. For it to be just you as the one and only man, it would only be worth it if the incremental enjoyment you get from each additional woman is actually worth the (possibly exponentially) increased effort it takes to maintain harmony with the flock of hens and all their children. Yeah, it'd be possible for things to go really well and to have some kind of little heaven on earth, but the reality is that most attempts at this sort of thing would never get off the ground, would fail early, or would fail catastrophically.

I would guess that the type of women likely to enjoy a group living/love scenario like this are less likely to want to have children, which would actually simplify things. Actual execution would include most women leaving after some amount of time, and thus needing to continue bringing in more.

I suppose... there are big differences between:
A - This being a communal living arrangement with a sharing economy.
B - A, plus the women all love and sleep with (only) you.

I assume, from your prefacing with the MGTOW references, that you're talking about B(?)

Jean
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by Jean » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:01 pm

I came up with the idea looking at the femal perspective. They would get a great dad with great genes for their kids, some resilience in case of system change, the possibility to have kid in a familly setting while pursuing some career.
As manly attributes seems to be less and less desirable in the workplace, maybe puting them to use to give children a very great education is a better strategy.
I don't really see it like having a Harem of hens. For your second question, the MGTOW reference was more about what to do if men create a shortage of themselves and what conditions a man could offer to women who still want to have a family. I don't mean to just get rich and flock many women with money.
It's just a way for woman with a rich life who still want kids, to offer those kids great genes and education (I know I make the assumption that women will in someway judge my genes to be great and want their kids to a childhood shiting in a pipe).
In today's condition, it just seems like a better arrangement thant the classical one (kid alone wih a woman frustrated about not having a career and spreading ressentment against men, and dad working a shit career paying alimony while spreading ressentment against women).

Jason
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by Jason » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:08 pm

I'd watch this before you take the plunge:

https://www.hbo.com/big-love

Augustus
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by Augustus » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:08 pm

I recall reading in an old sherlock holmes or something about a mormon guy he saw on a train looking like the most miserable man in the world. I could not imagine how annoying it would be trying to keep 4-5 women happy at the same time. Also, not very ERE :lol: Think of the cost involved!!!

suomalainen
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by suomalainen » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:18 pm

In fairness, the way the OP was set up, it might be a good idea: one man who stays at home and is the sperm donor for women who want babies and careers. It's sorta like a manny mimbo setup? The above responses don't appear to take you very seriously and I suspect that's due to three things:

1) Finding women open to polygamy
2) Actually WANTING to be in a polygamous relationship (i.e., the "I can barely handle one woman!" joke)
3) Finding women willing to support you in a sort of polygamous relationship, but with role reversal

Basically, it comes across like you're asking if this unicorn you thought of would be a great thing. Sure, man. Unicorns sound awesome. But I suspect finding the intersection of 1 and 2 and 3 is not very realistic. If you do find it, start a blog/vlog so you can make money as every man in the world follows along.

Jason
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by Jason » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:20 pm

Wikipedia says Joseph Smith started the "church" at 24 and died at 38. He was obviously no Hugh Hefner.

Edit: (@) Suo

IMHO, the thesis, no matter how well defended doesn't deserve one moment of serious contemplation, as a genius by the name of Jerry Springer made millions of dollars on the inevitable result of the endeavor.
Last edited by Jason on Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

prognastat
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by prognastat » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:23 pm

I never got the maintaining a harem that some men seem to dream about. I understand friends with benefits or casual sex, however maintaining a long term relationship and kids with multiple women long term seems like it should be one of the levels of hell.
Last edited by prognastat on Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

suomalainen
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by suomalainen » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:24 pm

@jason, even the church now openly admits that he had many wives. https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marri ... o?lang=eng It was an open secret for decades. Joe's trick was to say that an angel had threatened him with a sword, and given his leadership position...well, let's just say he makes Harvey Weinstein look like an angel.

prognastat
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by prognastat » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:34 pm

suomalainen wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:18 pm
Basically, it comes across like you're asking if this unicorn you thought of would be a great thing. Sure, man. Unicorns sound awesome. But I suspect finding the intersection of 1 and 2 and 3 is not very realistic. If you do find it, start a blog/vlog so you can make money as every man in the world follows along.
I think your two options making this work is either starting a cult or finding women who aren't psychologically quite right(although the former might just be the latter) to agree to such a situation. If you take on a provider role for multiple then maybe you can make it work, but asking them to be the provider you are pretty much going to either need to start some kind of cult where the adherents believe you are special despite not being a provider or there is going to be something very off about those women which will bring into question whether you want to maintain a relationship and have kids with them.

I suspect it would be difficult to find even one woman wanting to agree to this set up let alone multiple effectively not just asking for a unicorn, but herd(or stud, funny coincidence how this works if you google what to call a group of horses).
Last edited by prognastat on Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Jason
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by Jason » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:35 pm

Adam Carolla (and I paraphrase): Cults are just ruses to attract women. Whether its Joseph Smith, Charles Manson, Warren Jeffs, David Koresh et al.

I'm not saying its wrong. I'm just saying to Jean that intellectually defending the enterprise is meaningless. To put into practice, he will need to create a narrative in which he is nothing less than a messianic figure and in the spirit of the ERE community, I'm willing to help him out.

ZAFCorrection
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by ZAFCorrection » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:45 pm

I am so confused. Women expect more these days so the reasonable response is for them to get a timeshare. Somehow I also don't think this is much of a solution for the guys who can't attract even one woman. Or maybe I am misunderstanding the point.

Jean
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by Jean » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:48 pm

I've seen many women ok with sharing a man. Usually those men don't wan't to act as Dads, this gives me an edge. They wouldn't have to support me, only pay insurances and some food for the kids. I'll be providing a place for everyone and everything for myself. Actually, I'de be able to provide for a few of the kids, were one of the women to die.
In this setting, women have their own lives, I don't have to handle them, just be correct and nice with them.
I'm using first person, but I don't really mean it for myself. I'm talking about how this arrangement might be open now. In this that if women make money, they don't have to judge a man on his ability to make money, but on other qualities. This also means that having many kids wouldn't be decided by ability to gather ressources, but on something else. That many women will start to assess atractivity on something else.

Kriegsspiel
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by Kriegsspiel » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:52 pm

  • Are you so awesome that a bunch of women will want you enough to share?
  • Are you rich enough to provide for that many people? Or do you think your harem is going to be satisfied providing for you? Most women are turned off when they earn more than their husband or when they're supporting him.
  • Did you mean you want to impregnate all the females yourself? Or you want to raise their kids by another man? What do you think you're going to get out of this arraignment?
  • I think you're overestimating how much women actually want to work. Pew surveys indicate fewer than 2/5 mothers want to work full time. Those statistics are for America. In Switzerland, it looks like 50% of mothers work part time, and 23% are full time mothers. 2.4% of Swiss families depend on a woman working full time.
  • What are child support laws like in Switzerland? If things go south, your child support might be outrageous.
Also
Jean wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:54 am
I think this kind of arrangement will emerge as more and more common (even if not for me), and most women I talked to about it seem to be open to the idea.
I'm 100% confident that when they said they were open to it, they were picturing time-sharing Christian Grey, not some dude who could only support himself, and maybe her kids, if she died :D
Last edited by Kriegsspiel on Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ZAFCorrection
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Re: new mating strategy gaming hypergamy

Post by ZAFCorrection » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:55 pm

I guess it is theoretically plausible. Though, at a first pass, it is going to run into the same issues as polyamory. At the very least there would be huge social resistance to adoption, which may in part be due to the limitations of human personalities. I am getting some feeling that what you are describing is different than old school Joseph Smith polygamy, but it is going to be really hard to make the case that it is not.

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