Hello from Italy

[iopsi]

Hi everyone.

So i'm a 27 year old, male, from Italy, and i've known and been interested in ERE (and many other ideas roughly linked to it) for several years. Today finally i decided to register, start my journal to ERE (or semi-ERE) and partecipate in discussions

My current job is a (very small but profitable so far) bookkeeping business started one year ago with one of my brothers and my mother. At the same time i've restarded to study economics at university and i'm thinking of becoming a tax advisor or auditor. I would like to "upgrade" the mentioned bookkeeping business with one of those titles.
Working roughly part-time (like i do now) as a self-employed professional, with a flexible schedule, is something i would not dislike. While maintaining a very low expense level, so if i get tired of it i can just quit and live off investments.

I find the whole systems-thinking approach and of a "frictionless life" (where every "waste" becomes an input for another positive process) fascinating and i try to incorporate it into my life (tho not always with great success... especially when it comes to the social aspects).

Also i love fitness and especially lifting weights (i train as a "powerbuilder", powerlifting + bodybuilding style) , i've been doing it for 10 years and i hope to be able to continue to do it. In a way it's probably my most wasteful hobby... but i like it too much to let it go

So i guess that's enough for a presentation. Hope to have some good discussions with you guys!

(i'm single so if there is any ERE-minded young lady (lol) interested pm me )

[Seppia]

A second italian! benvenuto!

Looking forward to your journal, in FIRE/ERE terms I think italians are good natural savers VS americans, but we usually play in hard mode because of the combo depressed salary levels + high housing costs.

[iopsi]

A second italian! benvenuto!

Looking forward to your journal, in FIRE/ERE terms I think italians are good natural savers VS americans, but we usually play in hard mode because of the combo depressed salary levels + high housing costs.

Grazie seppia
So we are the only two italians in this forum? Well that's not really unexpected ahah

Yeah i too think that italians are better savers on average. Tho i also think that here people are much more skeptical of investments (especially financials) compared to the anglosphere. Stocks are pretty much seen as gambling (or at least.. that's what my family (except my brothers) and friends think... yet most of my friends do actually gamble on soccer games lol).

I live with my parents so.. housing is not a problem for me for now. We have a big house so it's not a problem, and as long as i'm single i don't have much reasons to go live alone anyway.

[wolf]

Welcome!

How did you find out about ERE in the first place (several years ago)?

[jacob]

Yeah i too think that italians are better savers on average. Tho i also think that here people are much more skeptical of investments (especially financials) compared to the anglosphere.

Yes, Italy has one of the lowest stock market capitalization / GDP ratios of any large country. It's ~10% indicating there little/no stock market culture or that tax law is extremely unfavorable to stock investing. The economy must therefore get its financing elsewhere: maybe banks, bond market, ...

In contrast, it's now almost 150% in the US (where stock investing is a national sport), 110% in the UK, and the same in AU. In Sweden (where stocks are also "interesting") it's about 130%. Compare to Japan which is still at 150%+ even 30 years after the bubble where it peaked at over 360%.
Conservative Germany (where banks and bonds dominate) is just about 45%.

[iopsi]

Welcome!

How did you find out about ERE in the first place (several years ago)?

To be honest i don't remember how i found this website!
I probably stumbled upon it during my research about investing, "how to retire" and stuff like that. Since i've never been a consumption oriented person and i was already interested on investments (especially the stock market), once i found it everything clicked pretty fast.

Yes, Italy has one of the lowest stock market capitalization / GDP ratios of any large country. It's ~10% indicating there little/no stock market culture or that tax law is extremely unfavorable to stock investing. The economy must therefore get its financing elsewhere: maybe banks, bond market, ...

In contrast, it's now almost 150% in the US (where stock investing is a national sport), 110% in the UK, and the same in AU. In Sweden (where stocks are also "interesting") it's about 130%. Compare to Japan which is still at 150%+ even 30 years after the bubble where it peaked at over 360%.
Conservative Germany (where banks and bonds dominate) is just about 45%.

I see, that confirms it. The culture is surely unfavorable, as far as i've seen, and pretty much all of the financing is done through banks i think. Since 90%+ of the italian businesses are small-micro in size and very local....

[thegreatvoid]

Ciao from your northern neighbouring country .

I don't know about the savings part , but Italians sure are the worst tippers in the world . In a country where it's costum to tip , I've not once received a tip from an Italian guest in the 8 years I've worked in the restaurant business .

And what's up with different prices for tourists and locals in Italian coffee shops ?

Anyway looking forward to your journal

[thegreatvoid]

Conservative Germany (where banks and bonds dominate) is just about 45%.

Credit Suisse did a global wealth report and I think Austria had the lowest growth in wealth,because only 4 % of people invest in stocks .
There is a huge distrust in the finacial system, especially since the finacial crisis and most people keep their money in savings accounts and real estate.

Other than beeing a Nazi( which you can get in jail for ) , stock speculator is the worst thing you can be in this country.

[Seppia]

Yes, Italy has one of the lowest stock market capitalization / GDP ratios of any large country. It's ~10% indicating there little/no stock market culture or that tax law is extremely unfavorable to stock investing.

It's a combination of events, but I would say mostly the lack of culture.
Taxation is punitive relative to the USA (26% on both dividends and capital gains, plus a 0.2% of assets annual tax), but pretty much in line with France and Germany.
Another factor is that valuations in Italy are very low

[iopsi]

Ciao from your northern neighbouring country .

I don't know about the savings part , but Italians sure are the worst tippers in the world . In a country where it's costum to tip , I've not once received a tip from an Italian guest in the 8 years I've worked in the restaurant business .

And what's up with different prices for tourists and locals in Italian coffee shops ?

Anyway looking forward to your journal

I suppose it's because we don't tip waiters here... it's possible many italians don't even know that they should leave a tip (in places where it's expected). Or maybe they don't feel like it's an appropriate thing to expect from customers.