1 Jacob Adjusted For Inflation (JAFI)
-
- Posts: 722
- Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:06 pm
Re: 1 Jacob Adjusted For Inflation (JAFI)
Regarding Jacob connecting spending with resource consumption, how does me spending 10k a year on massages lead to any environmental degradation assuming no creams are sued and I walk there?
-
- Posts: 991
- Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 8:30 pm
- Location: Texas
- Contact:
Re: 1 Jacob Adjusted For Inflation (JAFI)
Well how did you receive this 10k, chances are likely that gaining this 10k had some cost on the environment and as such spending more means more had to be done.
Also the chances that there are no costs in the actual massage are pretty low too. However they can be minimised in ways such as you mentioned.
Also the chances that there are no costs in the actual massage are pretty low too. However they can be minimised in ways such as you mentioned.
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 15996
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm
- Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 77
- Contact:
Re: 1 Jacob Adjusted For Inflation (JAFI)
You can pretty much assume that those 10k flow out into the same generic economy, so unless the person providing the massage spends the money on getting massages themselves, the standard impact multiplier applies.
An example of the latter might be if I sell some shares in one company and then use the cash to buy some other shares.
Cost is a pretty good---but obviously not perfect---proxy for total material use. In that case a Prius + lower gas use >> cheap econobox with higher gas use. The greater technological impact of constructing the Prius is included in the price. Similar when comparing a $10k PV system with a $40/month coal-fired electric power from an unenlightened utility company.
An example of the latter might be if I sell some shares in one company and then use the cash to buy some other shares.
Cost is a pretty good---but obviously not perfect---proxy for total material use. In that case a Prius + lower gas use >> cheap econobox with higher gas use. The greater technological impact of constructing the Prius is included in the price. Similar when comparing a $10k PV system with a $40/month coal-fired electric power from an unenlightened utility company.
- jennypenny
- Posts: 6858
- Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:20 pm
Re: 1 Jacob Adjusted For Inflation (JAFI)
@jacob--Pretend I haven't read an econ textbook in over a decade and don't remember exactly what standard impact multiplier means. What are you saying? That it doesn't matter how I spend my $10K because I have to assume the next person/people to spend it (wherever it ends up) will spend it like the average consumer?
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 15996
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm
- Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 77
- Contact:
Re: 1 Jacob Adjusted For Inflation (JAFI)
Yes. That's accurate to the first order (or as accurate as a CPI calculation).
- jennypenny
- Posts: 6858
- Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:20 pm
Re: 1 Jacob Adjusted For Inflation (JAFI)
So it's not just about how little I spend, but how little ammo I give the next person? and so on ....?
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 15996
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm
- Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 77
- Contact:
Re: 1 Jacob Adjusted For Inflation (JAFI)
Yes. As the money flows out the chance of it reverting to a "standard" flow increases. Even if you spend all your money at the local organic farmer; there's a chance that they don't spend it all at the other local organic farmer. Eventually this cascade becomes generic in nature. So what mostly matters is not how you spend but how much.
Example: A $40,000 wrist watch might seem like a low-impact consumption object ... but in reality you just paid and indirectly consumed for the life style of a watchmaker for an entire year.
Example: A 1oz gold coin is a small object but it costs enough money and that money is spent on big machines that will a few dozen tons of rock (overburden) to get at it.
Example: A $40,000 wrist watch might seem like a low-impact consumption object ... but in reality you just paid and indirectly consumed for the life style of a watchmaker for an entire year.
Example: A 1oz gold coin is a small object but it costs enough money and that money is spent on big machines that will a few dozen tons of rock (overburden) to get at it.
Re: 1 Jacob Adjusted For Inflation (JAFI)
I think the spending as proxy for material use rule of thumb starts to fall apart at some level of complexity, particularly when barter and/or self-employment come into the calculation. For instance, if my BF buys me a $40 pair of shoes at the mall, cost to me is $0 vs. the $4 I might have otherwise spent at the thrift store, and I know that at the margin he invests in the stock market rather than spending on more consumer items, and as a token of gratitude I give him a used book I acquired previously as business inventory and already wrote off, and the new pair of shoes will last approximately 3X longer than the used pair?
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 15996
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm
- Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 77
- Contact:
Re: 1 Jacob Adjusted For Inflation (JAFI)
Yes, just like CPI falls apart upon closer inspection. That's why it's first order only.
This concept works similar to an EROEI calculation or the original google search algorithm.
This concept works similar to an EROEI calculation or the original google search algorithm.
Re: 1 Jacob Adjusted For Inflation (JAFI)
I think maybe the first $2/day or barter equivalent any human spends should just be considered part of nature. And if you live in a 1st world economy, any used goods purchased for less than maybe $.25/lb should not count, because would otherwise simply be wasted.
- jennypenny
- Posts: 6858
- Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:20 pm
Re: 1 Jacob Adjusted For Inflation (JAFI)
NM ... def not being clear.
-
- Posts: 722
- Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:06 pm
Re: 1 Jacob Adjusted For Inflation (JAFI)
@JennyPenny
What is not clear?
If I spend 10k on something with very low environmental impact, the next person will almost certainly buy gasoline, clothes, food, hygenic good, etc. with that money and thus, regression to the standard consumer spending styles occurs with respect to how the money spent impacts the environment.
The initial question I had now seems cleared. It does seem to mean that money spent gets double counted since it counts the spending of both me and whoever provides the service. Because it is a time based consumption rate, velocity of money is a factor somewhere in the equation.
What is not clear?
If I spend 10k on something with very low environmental impact, the next person will almost certainly buy gasoline, clothes, food, hygenic good, etc. with that money and thus, regression to the standard consumer spending styles occurs with respect to how the money spent impacts the environment.
The initial question I had now seems cleared. It does seem to mean that money spent gets double counted since it counts the spending of both me and whoever provides the service. Because it is a time based consumption rate, velocity of money is a factor somewhere in the equation.
Re: 1 Jacob Adjusted For Inflation (JAFI)
@jennypenny:
Another way to look at it is that human beings, no matter what service they are providing, are powered by food, and food cost is currently 80% associated with petroleum. Somebody who is providing a more highly skilled/highly paid service had to eat food through all the extra years of education and training, and all the people who earned their living by educating/training other individuals also had to eat. So $$ of service provided by human is pretty well correlated with petroleum usage. In a way, it's no different than renting a car.
Another way to look at it is that human beings, no matter what service they are providing, are powered by food, and food cost is currently 80% associated with petroleum. Somebody who is providing a more highly skilled/highly paid service had to eat food through all the extra years of education and training, and all the people who earned their living by educating/training other individuals also had to eat. So $$ of service provided by human is pretty well correlated with petroleum usage. In a way, it's no different than renting a car.
Re: 1 Jacob Adjusted For Inflation (JAFI)
If the cap on expenses was placed due to moral reasons (i.e. not to consume more than one's fair share of resources), than why continue eating animals? Do the same logic and morals not apply, and with immediate effect? Each steak eaten could've fed 2 starving persons in Africa for a day (energy efficiency of beef is ~4.3%).jacob wrote: ↑Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:48 pmSpeaking of 1 jacob vis-a-vis the world's total global population, I once calculated that the consumption of the world's inventory of humans would be sustainable if everybody consumed no more than about 1.3 jacob each. That was back in the early 2000s when there were 6e9 humans and not 7.6e9 humans. So that's a big part of where the 1 jacob came about. I was already spending less, but I've always thought of it as a ceiling insofar what I could morally do.
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 15996
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm
- Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 77
- Contact:
Re: 1 Jacob Adjusted For Inflation (JAFI)
@Bankai - I don't eat that many animals either. The way I see the moral calculus is that if each person (present and future) has a right to one slice of the pie, then I'm not going to eat/use less because some person decides to take three slices. The two he makes go without (his grandchildren or starving persons in Africa) are on his head. Morally, at least from a libertarian standpoint, the buck stops with the overconsumers. One is not obligated to actively help but one is certainly obligated to not actively hurt.
-
- Posts: 952
- Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:05 pm
Re: 1 Jacob Adjusted For Inflation (JAFI)
Sub-Saharan Africa has a total fertility rate around 5, which probably doesn't help.
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 15996
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm
- Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 77
- Contact:
Re: 1 Jacob Adjusted For Inflation (JAFI)
When you spend as little as they do/can (far below 1.3jacob/5) the number of children doesn't matter. If you want to see where the average person is eating too much of the pie, look at GDP/capita for various countries.
For example, the GDP/Capita in Sierra Leone is 0.07 jacobs. A person could have 13(*) children and still not eat up their slice. Of course that ends it there. Those 13 children could not have any children of their own.
(*) Technically 13*1.3 since the sustainable spending limit is 1.3 jacobs.
For example, the GDP/Capita in Sierra Leone is 0.07 jacobs. A person could have 13(*) children and still not eat up their slice. Of course that ends it there. Those 13 children could not have any children of their own.
(*) Technically 13*1.3 since the sustainable spending limit is 1.3 jacobs.
-
- Posts: 952
- Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:05 pm
Re: 1 Jacob Adjusted For Inflation (JAFI)
I meant having a bunch of kids doesn't help the starvation problem.
Re: 1 Jacob Adjusted For Inflation (JAFI)
GDP doesn't capture consumption at very low level
Re: 1 Jacob Adjusted For Inflation (JAFI)
JAFI(2018) = 8432 (US Inflation 2018 = 1,9%)