PoorButWealthy's Journal

Where are you and where are you going?
PoorButWealthy
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:11 pm

PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by PoorButWealthy »

Hi all,

I've been enjoying the ERE forum / journals (great stuff!) and I think the time is right to start an ERE journal of my own, so here it goes.

Why journal:

- To share thoughts/ideas, get advice and interact with the ERE community
- It forces me to stay concentrated on my ERE plans
- It might be nice to read these posts in the future and reminisce how life was before ERE / semi-retirement
- I try to do a post at least once a month

Background:

- 20-something-year-old guy living in Scandinavia.
- MSc in Financial Economics.
- Working in accounting/finance/consulting/banking for ~5 years.
- INTJ
- Discovered ERE (blog, book, forum etc.) about 2 years ago and have lived very simply/minimalistically/frugally since then. Discovering ERE has been extremely liberating, as it provides a realistic “get out of jail free card” for me... So thanks Jacob, great stuff! I have also enjoyed e.g. MMM, Lacking Ambition, RPF-podcasts etc.
- An aspiring renaissance man, i.e. I have learned and done all kinds of new useful stuff for a while now, stuff that has really taken me out of my comfort zone and provided me plenty of useful and valuable skills and expertise.

Goal:

- To be ERE / semi-retired in ~3 years. That is, to quit my job not later than in December 2020.
- What ERE / semi-retirement means to me: 20 - 25 years of living expenses saved, that is ~225 000 - 250 000 $, and to do some meaningful/fun/rewarding/useful part time (or volunteer) work here and there.

Net worth ATM:

- Cash 68 000 $, investments (mostly stocks, some bonds) 26 000 $, apartment (market value - debt) 30 000 $ =124 000 $
- So my task is to accumulate additional net worth of ~100 000 - 125 000 $ in ~39 months, i.e. 2600 - 3200 $ / month. Not easy, but doable. Maybe somewhat of a challenge.

Net income / month:

- About 3500 $, sometimes more due to bonuses or / and investment income.
- I'm planning to stay in my current job until my ERE / semi-retirement, which means that the pay-raise potential is quite low during the next three years.

Fixed expenses / month:

- Apartment 120 $: includes everything (water, electricity, heat, trash, taxes, interest etc.) but mortgage payment (470 $), which I count as “apartment net worth”... The apartment is located in a prime location in one of Scandinavia's largest / most expensive cities. I own ~50 % of the apartment and my gf owns the other ~50 %. I think we are going to sell the apartment after my ERE / semi-retirement and move out of the big city to somewhere much, much, quieter and cheaper, were we would rent an apartment/house. I don't really like owning an expensive apartment, because it's essentially a highly leveraged bet on the housing market, but at the moment it's so much cheaper when compared to renting. If we would rent a similar apartment, we would pay ~1200-1300 $ / month, i.e. about the same amount as our mortgage payment + other housing costs ATM.
- Food 250 - 350 $ (including vitamins, supplements etc.): I could cut my food expenses almost in half, but eating very healthy is important for me. I mostly eat really high quality stuff (organic, non-processed foods, plenty of vegetables etc.).
- Transportation 0 - 50 $ (I mostly walk and bike, sometimes public transportation)

Why ERE:

- I have no interest in careerism or consumerism anymore. I used to have, when I was younger, but a lot has changed since then, mostly mentally and spiritually. All I really need nowadays is a very simple and minimalistic lifestyle where (most of the time) I get to decide what I'm going to do and when. Reading, walking, cycling, hanging out with gf, friends & family, working out, investing & asset management, sitting in the park, researching stuff, learning new skills, meditating, relaxing, enjoying the moment etc... That's enough for me! The thought of working 9-to-5 until I'm 65 or 70 seems really, really, weird to me, especially when taking into account the fact that most people have the opportunity to ERE in 5-10 years.

To-do-list when ERE / semi-retired:

- Bike across Norway, Sweden and Finland.
- Live off the grid at least for a while, maybe “vanlife” or a cabin in Northern Norway
- Learn to make a (modest) living in any location with just a laptop and mobile phone
- Learn to play the guitar
- Learn rock climbing
- Learn Spanish
- Maybe do a PhD... A strong maybe.
- All kinds of additional stuff

Things that bother me:

- I´m not sure that I have the willpower to work until 2020. I'm already now tempted to jump out of the rat race and start a new life. My current net worth would cover over 10 years of living expenses and sometimes I'm struggling to convince myself that continuing to build up my net worth is the right thing to do. I mean, there's so many exciting things to do and so much to experience, and over 3 years of additional cubicle work sounds horrible...

Best regards,
PoorButWealthy
Last edited by PoorButWealthy on Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

detect_148
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:00 am

Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by detect_148 »

I have similar concerns about continuing to work after significant savings have been accumulated. The opportunity cost of continuing to work grows along with net worth. Thanks for sharing. Welcome.

PoorButWealthy
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:11 pm

Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by PoorButWealthy »

@detect_148: Yes, you're right, the opportunity cost is growing all the time, which makes it hard sometimes to keep focused on the big picture (i.e. ERE)... What are your strategies/rituals/habits to motivate yourself to continue working?

I think this month is going to be a really good one when it comes to net income and expenses. Net income will be over 4200 $ and total expenses will be in the 600-700 $ range. Net income is jacked up due to a nice one-off investment income. Food costs are a clear issue and they need to be controlled more vigorously. I think food costs of 300 $ / month should be the maximum and ideally they should be under 200 $, maybe something like 150 $.

liberty
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Location: Norway

Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by liberty »

Hey PoorButWealthy, I have a feeling very similar to yours. One thing to consider is to move away from Scandinavia to a cheaper place and then retire. I plan to move to Eastern Europe.

You won't achive anything in life by staying in the cubicle, except saving money, but in itself that's not an achievements. Money is just a tool for having fun and play around. Also, it's maybe more risky to stay too long than too short in 9-5? Example: 4% SWR has failed in a few cases, but the worst thing that can happen is that you go back to work for a few years. It's bad, but maybe worth a 12% risk...
PoorButWealthy wrote: pay-raise potential is quite low during the next three years
Although you want to stay in the same job you should maybe apply for other jobs. Then if you get another job offer you can hand in resignation in your current job, and much likely they will give you a better offer if you have done a good job. Then you get a bidding competition between the two companies.

PoorButWealthy
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:11 pm

Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by PoorButWealthy »

@liberty: You are right, even SWR between 5-7 % should be quite safe, at least according to JL Collins's calculations. Maybe I should reconsider how much I still need to save for my ERE-stash... I'll think about it. Where are you planning to move in Eastern Europe?

October

Wealth:
Net income: 4700 $
Expenses: 730 $
Savings: 3970 $
Savings rate: 84 %

Job:
Career prospects: unchanged
Work-life balance: good
Work-stress levels: low

Health:
Nutrition: very good
Exercise: gym 3-5x week
Other: intermittent fasting and LCHF works great

Overall, a great month, net income has never been this high. However, net income was boosted by 1400 $ one-off investment profits, so this months net income will be significantly lower. Total expenses were quite low, but I'm not happy about the 400 $ food expenses I managed to stack up. I think 250 $ is something I try to achieve in the near future.

jacob
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by jacob »

PoorButWealthy wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:14 pm
@liberty: You are right, even SWR between 5-7 % should be quite safe, at least according to JL Collins's calculations.
7% for 50 years on firecalc.com fails in 82.5% of the cases.

That's based on US historical data which did better than any Scandinavian market which would have higher failure rate. Don't make the mistake of applying US 20th century numbers willy-nilly to other countries or other centuries.

The strategy of going back to work at age 65+ or in any case late in the game seems somewhat foolhardy to me. If the plan is to go for optimistic WRs, it's better to have a more defensible strategy e.g. one where spending can be cut in half to bring it down to 3.5% or one were some kind of pension scheme kicks in. If the market is failing to provide, it's likely that finding a job is hard too. Insofar the "plan" is to see such an eventual portfolio failure decades in advance, the problem is that you're now going back realizing that you're only about half-way to the finish line in terms of NW. If the original NW was originally made on a higher career income, making up the rest with a second-career will likely be harder since they tend to pay less.

OTOH, if the plan is to spend retirement in pursuit of other kinds of income from time to time, 7% is fine, ... but then a productive lifestyle is required.

liberty
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Location: Norway

Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by liberty »

@PoorButWealthy 7% is way to high... I use 3 - 3.5%, but I calculate based on expected expenses in Eastern Europe. I will travel around and check out places until I find a cool place. Counties I want to try: Romania, Hungary, Croatia, Slovenia, Slovakia, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Greece.

PoorButWealthy
Posts: 36
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by PoorButWealthy »

@Jacob: Thanks for the information and the link to firecalc.com. This was very useful. I'll stick with the 3-4 % SWR! Btw I read your book for the 3rd time in November and it's getting better every time I read it again, what a masterpiece.

@liberty: The coast of Slovenia is beatiful, you should definitely check it out!

November

Wealth:
Net income: 3560 $
Expenses: 790 $
Savings: 2780 $
Savings rate: 78 %

Job:
Career prospects: unchanged
Work-life balance: good
Work-stress levels: very low
Other: thinking about applying for a new job. The boreout I'm experiencing in my present job is getting quite high and I wouldn't mind a little boost in my salary.

Health:
Nutrition: excellent
Exercise: gym 3-5x week + running 2x week
Sauna: 5x week + ice cold showers after
Other: intermittent fasting (18:6, all daily calories in 2 big meals) and LCHF still works great. Body fat % is approaching 10 % for the first time ever. I'll never go back to the "standard diet". Thinking about doing Valter Longo's FMD (5-7 days) in the near future. The research on fasting is promising and the concept of autophagy is fascinating.

Learning/education:
Books I've read: ERE (the 3rd time), Tribe of Mentors, Tools of Titans (the 2nd time), The Obesity Code, The Power of Now (the 3rd time)
Stuff I've researched a lot: fasting, insulin and its role in fat loss / obesity, sauna and its health effects, cryptocurrencies and blockchain (especially Ethereum), Scandinavian small cap stocks

Overall, a good month. Net income included 200 $ one-off investment profits from an IPO, which would have been ~600 $, if I wouldn't have liquidated my long position way too early. Well, 200 $ is better than nothing.

I took a ~1200 $ long position in Ethereum and I'm going to hold it for a long time. The technology and vision behind Ethereum is impressive and it could be huge in the next 10 years. Or it could be worth zero, but I'm willing to take the risk. Other cryptocurrencies that I might buy (for a very small sum) in the near future: DASH, IOTA, Waves, OMG. A funny story: a friend mined BTC in 2011 and urged me also to start mining. I thought about it for a day but then decided not to, due to the electricity bill it would generate... And remember, in 2011 you could mine a lot of BTC in a day with quite cheap computers. But, then again, who would have guessed that a single BTC would be worth 10k in the future, when it was worth about a dollar in 2011.

PoorButWealthy
Posts: 36
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by PoorButWealthy »

Long time no see. Sorry guys for the long break. I had almost given up on writing here but decided to get myself together and continue this journal. I have been here many times and tried to write, but somehow I just couldn't. Too much stuff on the table and public writing is something I don’t really like to do. I started reading the ERE-book for the 4th time this week and realised that this journal needs to be updated until I’m ERE, and hopefully after that too. I have to say that the ERE-book is one of my all time favourite books, joining the ranks of Meditations, Rich Dad Poor Dad and Walden on Wheels (a great great book).

My ERE-project is advancing very well and everything is kind of perfect at the moment. I changed my job and got a large pay-rise. My net income is about 5000 $ / month now and ERE is almost guaranteed, assuming that my 70-80 % savings rate stays intact and I’m capable of doing this ”shadow game” (Plato’s cave…) for 2,5 - 3 additional years. So I’ll probably be ERE / semi-ERE when I’m about 30-years-old. I’m very happy with my current life situation, but damn, I can’t wait to get out of this rat race and weird corporate world.

I hope all you guys are doing well in your ERE-projects and I wish you all the best. I try to force myself to write a post weekly, let’s see how it goes.
 
BR,
PoorButWealthy

wolf
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by wolf »

Welcome back PoorButWealthy! It's good to read a new update in your journal.

It seems that you are on a really good track to ERE! Wow, I'm impressed by your high net income and your SR!

Congratulations to you pay-rise. Did you just change the employer oder did you also move to a higher position/role?
I do have a high SR also, but sometimes I gotta balance it with life (comfort). For me it is not everything about the goal (ERE), but also about the process. By that I mean a balanced lifestyle, designed by a web-of-goal-approach, but also a sustainable process. I cannot sacrifice everything in order to reach my goal to ERE/FIRE just only a few years earlier. I'm interested how you handle it? If you write, that you "can't wait to get out of this rat race and weird corporate world", do you mean it exactly so?

Achieving ERE / semi-ERE by the age of 30 is very good. Then you will have many options. Do you already plan for the time after leaving that "shadow game"?

Well, thanks for the update of your journal and take care!

2Birds1Stone
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

Welcome back :)

I've been immersing myself in other members journals and it's not only very entertaining but thought provoking and inspirational.

PoorButWealthy
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:11 pm

Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by PoorButWealthy »

wolf wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 12:24 am
1 ) Did you just change the employer oder did you also move to a higher position/role?

2 ) I cannot sacrifice everything in order to reach my goal to ERE/FIRE just only a few years earlier. I'm interested how you handle it?

3 ) If you write, that you "can't wait to get out of this rat race and weird corporate world", do you mean it exactly so?

4 ) Do you already plan for the time after leaving that "shadow game"?
Hi Wolf, how is your ERE-project progressing? Here are some answers to your questions:

1) I changed employer and moved to a higher position. The recruitment process was gruelling and intense but it was worth it!

2) Well, this might sound weird but I have never felt that by pursuing ERE I would sacrifice something. It's just a lifestyle and mindset that is very normal for me. Not pursuing the "ERE-lifestyle" would be a sacrifice to me. Does this make sense? I mean, I pretty much do all the things I want to do already, I just happen to enjoy things that go hand in hand with the "ERE-lifestyle". For example, today I ran 12 miles, walked 6 miles while admiring great old architecture in the city, drank coffee at a Café and read the ERE-book, talked with the barista about his future life plans, talked with my friend for 4 hours about investments and investment ideas and spent the evening with my gf. I think something like this is pretty much a perfect day. There's nothing to add or to remove to make the day better. And as you see, this kind of lifestyle is very cheap and simple :)

3) Yes, I do mean it. Working at an intellectually very challenging job is of course nice, because I get to work on hard problems and I have extremely competent and smart colleagues. I mean, my job is excellent and I'm very thankful for it, but in the long run, I know I have to do my own thing and live on my own terms. I'm a very competent employee and perform very well in my job, but it doesn't give me any contentment or satisfaction, as I have hardly any ego or identity around my career. This is a topic on which I will write more about in the future.

4)
Here's some ideas :lol:

- Bike across Norway, Sweden and Finland.
- Live off the grid at least for a while, maybe “vanlife” or a cabin somewhere in Northern Scandinavia
- Learn to make a (modest) living in any location with just a laptop and mobile phone
- Learn to play the guitar
- Learn rock climbing
- Learn Spanish
- Maybe do a PhD (some kind of mixture between statistics / econometrics, economics and computer science)... A very strong maybe
- Do some meaningful/fun/rewarding/useful part time (or volunteer) work here and there
- Start a health / nutrition / exercise consulting business
- Study psychology
- Learn software development
Welcome back :)

I've been immersing myself in other members journals and it's not only very entertaining but thought provoking and inspirational.
Thank you 2Birds1Stone. I hope your ERE-journey is going well. I do agree that other member journals are like a gold mine, so much good stuff and inspirational people.
Last edited by PoorButWealthy on Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

PoorButWealthy
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by PoorButWealthy »

May 2018

Savings rate of net income: 80 %

A very good month in almost all life aspects. Even though I saved 80 % of my net income, it feels like I experienced and did everything I wanted to do on my free time (i.e. outside of work). An exciting and enjoyable life doesn't need to be expensive. :lol:

About 60 % of my spending went to food (lunch at work, cooking at home, Cafés etc.), which is way too high. I'll try to achieve a 85 % savings rate in June by limiting my food expenses. The reason why my food bill is so high is because I eat mostly organic vegetables and fruit, high quality fats (EV olive oil, avocados etc.), high quality meats (organic, grass fed etc.), high quality cheeses, specialty coffees etc. I need to find some cheaper solution for healthy eating, let's see how it goes.

BR,
PbW

PoorButWealthy
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by PoorButWealthy »

June
Savings rate of net income: 76%

July
Savings rate of net income: 73%

All in all, June and July were great months, the weather was perfect and the sun was shining almost every day. Even though I lived as I wanted to live, did everything I wanted to do and ate everything I wanted to eat, the savings rate stayed in the 70-80 % area, which is the critical level I need to preserve in order to achieve semi-ERE when I'm about 30-years-old. So, everything seems to be in order. This month I think a 85 % savings rate will be achievable, as there are no large purchases to be done and I have been selling all kinds of unused stuff on the internet (CDs, watches, books etc.).

My spending was somewhat high, as I bought two new suits (both with two sets of pants), dress shirts, a pair of shoes, pants etc. from clearance sales (sale from -30 to -70%), I had to buy a new phone because the old one went black and I had my summer holiday in June during which I did some traveling in the Nordics. However, I'm quite sure the set of suits etc. I bought will last for the rest of my career and the new phone is very nice, as the old one was from year 2012 and thus quite slow and laggy. It's amazing how nice of a phone one can buy with 300 dollars!

Quality of life has been good: the right level of "stress" (not too much but not too little so that one gets things done), the right amount of work / leisure, a lot of new learning and experimenting, working out almost every day etc. On a side note, I took up a new workout, i.e. sprinting 200-400 meters in a "HIIT-kind-of-style". It is the most brutal workout I have ever encountered, but it's extremely effective and almost free, as good track spikes can be bought from clearance with just 30 dollars. I have also been diving again into more deep reading and thinking during the summer, reading and contemplating on teachings of Marcus Aurelius, Alan Watts, J.Krishnamurti etc. I would highly recommend all of these and especially Alan Watts' book "Out of Your Mind", as it will beat the shit out of your ego and self-identity, which I think is good thing, at least for me.

BR,
PbW

PoorButWealthy
Posts: 36
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by PoorButWealthy »

August
Savings rate of net income: 87%

In ERE-terms, August was a great month. Net income was slightly above 5000 USD and expenses about 650 USD. Expenses were divided as follows: food 66 %, other expenses 22 %, housing 19 % and transportation 1 %. There were no surprising expenses during the month. I'll try to cut my expenses to under 600 USD this month, let's see how it goes.

This month I will look into more cost cutting by negotiating a better deal with my electricity provider and a cheaper mobile phone plan. These both negotiations will take maybe 20 minutes all together and they will probably result in about 200 USD savings per year. What I have learned during the past few years is that almost everything is negotiable. It's amazing how much money one can save by being an efficient and daring negotiator. I would recommend for everybody a book called "Never Split the Difference" by Chris Voss, which I think is the best negotiation book there is. Also, on a side note, I started reading Poor Charlie's Almanack for the second time. It's a great great book and I think it's almost mandatory reading for anyone who aspires to ERE.

So ERE or semi-ERE is again one step closer. Everything is going as planned. The only real challenge is to gather the motivation to continue to work for an additional ~30 months. Realistically speaking, there is a change that someday I'll just spontaneously quit my job, but at the moment, I think the probability for this is still below 10 %.

BR,
PbW

2Birds1Stone
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

Thank you for the book recommendation, I just downloaded the "GetAbstract" of it, and will get it from the library asap.

PoorButWealthy
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by PoorButWealthy »

Do you mean the "Never split the difference" book? Yes, it is a great book. I've been utilising the book's teachings in my professional and private life and I've found it to be very useful.

Here's a great interview of the writer / negotiator, Chris Voss: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_iKeiPhisw

PoorButWealthy
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by PoorButWealthy »

How to Retire in Your 30s With $1 Million in the Bank: Fed up with their high-pressure jobs, some millennials are quitting and embracing the FIRE movement. (It stands for financial independence, retire early).

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/01/styl ... early.html

"Some practice “lean FIRE” (extreme frugality), others “fat FIRE” (maintaining a more typical standard of living while saving and investing), and still others “barista FIRE” (working part-time at Starbucks after retiring, for the company’s health insurance). To be “firing” is to slash one’s expenses to maximize saving while amassing income-generating investments sufficient to support oneself. To have “fired” is to have achieved that goal."

Well, given these options, I'd assume I'll be practicing "lean FIRE" and maybe also some "barista FIRE" when I've "fired"... 8-)

In all seriousness, I think this article should also have included people who achieved FIRE at an early age by earning a low/middle income, as e.g. Jacob. This would make the concept of FIRE more identifiable to most readers, as most readers don't earn these massive >100k/year salaries.

2Birds1Stone
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

Jacob laid the groundwork and paved the way for MMM and the likes......but the last thing we need here is an influx of mainstream NYT readers.

jacob
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by jacob »

PoorButWealthy wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:31 pm
In all seriousness, I think this article should also have included people who achieved FIRE at an early age by earning a low/middle income, as e.g. Jacob. This would make the concept of FIRE more identifiable to most readers, as most readers don't earn these massive >100k/year salaries.
I agree. The developing media narrative that increasingly associates FIRE with those who do it with 100k+ engineering salaries and the benefit of a 10 year bull market (I did note that I was not invited to this article nor do I see other FIRE people there in the normal salary range) is somewhat destructive to FIRE itself and FIRE's reputation in society at large.

Basically, the media is increasingly only covering people who FIRE in "easy-mode".

I mean how can this not generate a certain resentment/exclusively in the other half. Defining leanFIRE as spending <50k/household (close to the median) and referring to spending in the 40% percentile as "extreme frugality" is somewhat insulting (oblivious privilege?) to the other half of the population for whom this is normal and who can never retire because they're earning/spending normally. Shopping at Costco is NOT extreme! Many people don't earn enough to FIRE on a Costco diet and some can't even afford to live on it.

I'm not surprised this [easy-mode media-focus] is happening and I do see it as an indication of peak-FIRE. We're simply seeing the last-marginal buyers ... people who did or wanted to do the minimum and signing up easy-mode got easier and easier.

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