The 9.9 Percent Is the New American Aristocracy

[prognastat]

It allows you to "feel guilt" but at the same time not really as you feel superior because unlike the others you actually feel guilty where as the rest doesn't.

So unlike usual guilt where you feel worse about yourself in this case it actually makes you feel better at the same time and as mentioned there probably is a decent amount of social signalling involved with such things on both side of the political aisle.

[jacob]

Not sure that any demographic loves guilt ... however, whereas the well-off left works out their guilt by acknowledging their privilege and calling for economic regulations at the societal level that work against them personally more so that the average person; the well-off right works out their guilt by donating to charity/select causes and writing it off on tax-forms that benefit them personally. Ultimately, the well-off (whether left and right) stay on top, whereas others grow resentful. Hence why there's a strong drift towards populism and authoritarianism these days.

[jennypenny]

I'm not sure anyone in Stepford would feel guilty after reading that article. They might say they did if it came up at a party, but while reading it privately? Probably not. The feeling would be more "There, but for the grace of God, go I" or something along those lines ... an acknowledgment of luck more than a pang of guilt.

[IlliniDave]

There seems to be an immense fetish for guilt out there--just so long as it's the other guy's demographic that feels it. Or if popular ideological narratives one happens to ascribe to happen to assign the guilt to one's own demographic then one points to their own personal enlightenment on the subject as their absolution meaning the guilt is only to be felt by other guys within their own demographic.

[Mister Imperceptible]

GUILT PORN

Quick, what percentage of my success is attributable to my being a straight white male?

The answer is 42.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_tlIGAg1aiU

[BRUTE]

brute also just watched that debate, but he was impressed by Stephen Fry much more than by Jordan Peterson.

[Riggerjack]

@ Jacob, the New Yorker, exactly. And a great link. But there has to be a name for these businesses that sell the feeling of being informed, rather than information. Journalism comes to mind... But that's not it. JP, you are in editing, what do you call these kinds of media? Or does it not stand out so much viewed from a professional viewpoint?

[thegreatvoid]

@jakob mentiones somewhere that most fortunes are lost by the third generation.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -700-years

maybe on the new continent, but not so much on the old continent.

[BRUTE]

Jakob Fugger ordered the construction of the Fuggerei to give back to his city, and try to save his soul in the meantime. Those living in the complex of cozy, two-story terrace houses pay a yearly rent of 0.88 euros

now that's rent control

[IlliniDave]

brute also just watched that debate, but he was impressed by Stephen Fry much more than by Jordan Peterson.

I've never seen the whole thing, but the interesting thing to me was that it was two self-described liberals debating the PC advocates. From a US-centric perspective it is rare to see what you might call old-school liberals break ranks with the far left/progressives. If the political landscape in the US was the same now as it was when I was a young adult I would probably fall somewhere left of center and would be fairly called "liberal-leaning". But the US seems to be aligning in more of a bar bell distribution. Or at least that is the image portrayed.

[7Wannabe5]

@Riggerjack:

Guilt is a dysfunction of the adult feminine quadrant, just like arrogance is a dysfunction of the adult masculine quadrant. Some highly functional aspects of the the adult masculine quadrant would be confidence, mastery, leadership, etc. Some highly functional aspects of the adult feminine quadrant would be empathy, warmth, mercy, etc. The high functions of the adult feminine quadrant serve to balance the high functions of the juvenile masculine quadrant which forward individualism, freedom, initiative etc. within any individual human and within society.

One of the primary functional problems with libertarian philosophy is that does not account for children or individuals who due to variety of handicaps will never achieve adult status (ability to enter into fair, open contract) by any imaginable definition except years on planet. It is not unusual for me to find myself in a room full of 4 year old children taking naps on little mats on the floor. While the children are sleeping, I might have a hushed conversation with a young woman wearing hijab, an older African-American woman, and another woman whose husband voted for Trump, about the child who came to school with bug bites all over his arms, no socks, and possibly no food since the snack he had at school the day before. If I consult Ayn Rand or Thomas Sowell for rational extension of philosophy solution to this problem, I guess sending this 4 year old out barefoot to work at cleaning the small parts at a pickle factory would be the rational solution

IOW, behaviors and perspectives that might rightly be described as patronizing, dysfunctional, counter-productive, disrespectful when applied to other adults of any class/origin/etc. are often those which result in best outcome for young children, those with very low cognitive function, and the senile. The great problem of sociology or society is where do we draw the line when we consider the plight or likely outcome of "other people's children?" Historically, and often still, upper-middle class women over the age of 50 (and thus not still as actively engaged with raising their own young) comprise the societal group of concerned grandmothers most likely to carry the burden of hauling forward the baskets full of "noblesse oblige." Thus, your feeling of being like a bull in the china shop, and not comprehending the "conversation" to be found in Atlantic magazine.

[BRUTE]

One of the primary functional problems with libertarian philosophy is that does not account for children or individuals who due to variety of handicaps will never achieve adult status

...

If I consult Ayn Rand or Thomas Sowell for rational extension of philosophy solution to this problem, I guess sending this 4 year old out barefoot to work at cleaning the small parts at a pickle factory would be the rational solution

citation needed. having read pretty much all of Ayn Rand and having a pretty good overview over Sowell's work, brute thinks this is an absurd straw man argument.

libertarianism does not say that there can't be subsidies or aid to those who need it. it merely says that this is better done privately and voluntarily than by the barrel of a gun.

[7Wannabe5]

@BRUTE:

First, please recall that when I take political matrix quizzes, my own results are Libertarian. I first attempted to release myself from compulsory education when I was 14. So, I have an ongoing internal debate on these matters. Also, my paternal political heritage was from at least 4 generations of Independent voters who worked in public service.

In “Basic Economics”, Sowell offers argument that child labor laws now serve to protect “strapping teenagers” from “jobs in air conditioned offices”, so they are compelled to turn to lives of crime if no longer in school.
Although he gives de facto nod of approval to early 20th century progressive policies that limited very young children from engaging in dangerous work, he is really still evading the question which I was trying to pose which is if children, and others, are deemed incompetent to enter into contract or enact self-authority then to what extent do they fall under the jurisdiction of their family vs society?

I last read Ayn Rand in 1984, so I will only note that my hazy recollection of the description of those who Atlas was shrugging to release as burden did not include a nursery full of infants needing diapers changed in the moment. The straw man when evading diaper duty is always going to be the notion of the undeserving able-bodied slacker. You have to do the actual math inputting the demographics and then come to the realization that a good percentage of people need direct care and another percentage of people has to provide that care, and there are only so many adults with ability left to function as engineers.

Anyways, I agree with you that help for those in need is best offered on private, voluntary basis, so please PM me and I will give directions for sending me funds with which I will purchase books to be read over the summer by my zombie-apocalypse zone students.

[BRUTE]

7Wannabe5 seems to operate under the assumption that brute cares about her human zombie-apocalypse zone students. brute doesn't even know them.

this is exactly why involuntary help doesn't work, and most of the money gets lost in the giant bureaucracy. it will be inefficient, brute will have zero insight into the efficacy of his donations, and he'll never see the outcomes. if anything, brute would prefer to donate to zombie-apocalypse zone human children in his own community.

[edit]

frankly, brute is offended by this (very typical anti-liberal in the classic sense) false dichotomy between "brute does what 7Wannabe5 wants" and "brute is an evil person whose philosophy is not well thought-out".

no. brute doesn't care about those children, and brute's system is still better for them than the wishful thinking alternative. even in his uncaring, evil, libertarian ways, brute is the better humanitarian. and he doesn't even care much for humans.

why are these children in zombie-apocalypse zone? because wishful thinking prevailed for decades, and left the humans it was supposedly meant to help worse off than they were.

[bryan]

I would think you would trust @7Wannabe5 (ERE forum community member) more than most in your (physical) local community. For example, I have kids, homeless, and fund-raisers come up to me all the time asking for money or a signature but I would feel better about giving funds to an ERE-member-backed cause (i.e. a giving proxy/administrator/steward) if they hit me up. There are only a few local orgs that I currently feel confident about giving money to.

Personally, I've walked into a bit of a trap

donating to charity/select causes and writing it off on tax-forms that benefit them personally

in that I have "charity" budgeted and allocated towards 501(c)(3)'s only. Gross. At least with the latest tax law and transitioning into low income, I shouldn't accrue such a problem again. I don't think the tax deduction was worth it, in the end

[7Wannabe5]

frankly, brute is offended by this (very typical anti-liberal in the classic sense) false dichotomy between "brute does what 7Wannabe5 wants" and "brute is an evil person whose philosophy is not well thought-out".

I was thinking more along the lines of "BRUTE is an intelligent, compassionate young man with some interesting ideas. Let's shoot the sh*t and explore the complex boundary between problems which can be solved with any philosophy of economics vs. those which might more properly be relegated to realms such as ecology or human biological development through the lifespan."

I am currently working 65 hours/week and I am also engaged in a moderately challenging course of study which requires at least another 5- 10 hours of alert brain time/week, so my previous posts might have been a bit rude due to desire to "cut to the chase."

One of the problems with the notion that private charter schools would offer an appropriate solution is demonstrated by the fact that I am precluded by my contract with private employer who provides my services to public institution from even offering gift of books to any of my students, because that could be construed as conflict of interest likely to cut into profit base.

Also, this debate is taking place oh so many comfortable leagues back from my current field of operation out on the front lines. Like you are all sitting in some cush room smoking cigars dissing the fall-out of the administration of FDR while I am ACTUALLY out on the front line interacting with children whose brains are about to harden over during adolescence with zero reading function installed. Tick-tick-tick goes the clock...

[7Wannabe5]

Babbling on as I attempt to amuse myself while taking brief breaks from coursework on the exciting topic of troubleshooting GPO issues in Active Directory. Which brings up another thought related to the future of education. The learning system I am facilitating for children having difficulties with basic reading is very similar to the system I am currently using myself in my studies. Therefore, I have a degree of empathy when they pout and complain about having to miss gym class in order to attend tutoring session. This is one of the multiple dimensions of Wheaton levels that apply to education. We all have realms in which we would find ourselves bored or frustrated with late learner challenges if we allowed ourselves to go there.

My Uber driver to the zombie-apolcalypse zone the other day, an older African-American gentleman, told me he was too shy in adolescence to perform to his top capacity in high school, but when he was 19 he was given a big break as the result of a competency test taken for a big automotive company. This test was probably something like unto an IQ test. He was then placed in position as the youngest supervisor in his entire division. Because of this break he was given, he feels the desire to give back in similar fashion in his retirement leisure, so he teaches martial arts to kids, including some who are autistic. He said "God Bless." as he dropped me off in scary zone, and I replied "Good luck." This is best case scenario. Everybody having enough leisure time and personal affluence and perspective of gratitude to give back in their own way in their own community.

[BRUTE]

Also, this debate is taking place oh so many comfortable leagues back from my current field of operation out on the front lines. Like you are all sitting in some cush room smoking cigars dissing the fall-out of the administration of FDR while I am ACTUALLY out on the front line interacting with children whose brains are about to harden over during adolescence with zero reading function installed. Tick-tick-tick goes the clock...

constantly focusing on the short-term fires without taking in the big picture, which causes the constant fires, is probably a recipe for continued disaster.

charter schools don't let 7Wannabe5 gift books to human children? they might be better in every other way.

problems don't have to be solved by exactly one branch of science (economics vs biology vs ecology). in fact, many problems are best solved through a combination of these. thus it seems weird to brute to say that "problem x (where x is education of poor human children) is best solved not by economics, but by y". why not use all of them? why not make use of economics to improve the economic incentives, and also use ecology and human biology to improve learning and retention? throwing out the clear economic improvements just because another science can also help seems absurd to brute.

and Active Directory is just the worst. brute does not envy 7Wannabe5 for having to mess around with that shit.

[7Wannabe5]

One problem with charter schools, or even schools of choice, is that they magnify the influence of involved, informed advocate parents on outcome. The difference between the best and worst schools within zip codes, driving distance, or school district increases. Sure, there are provisions that call for closing down or radically overhauling the schools that do not perform to standards, but that just leaves the students with the poorest advocate parents with the greatest likelihood of falling between the transitional cracks.

Also, due to some common sense residual, enrolling your child in a random public school is like eating at the Arby’s or Applebee’s just off the expressway exit, but enrolling your child in a random charter school is more like taking a chance on a roadside diner or the new Thai place. Once again, the child with an informed advocate parent is going to suffer least and benefit most from freer market.

Of course, as evidenced even in very popular “rags to riches” American success stories of the 19th century such as “Ragged Dick”, the likelihood that a poor bastard child who is in possession of inherent qualities such as intelligence and emotional maturity will find one or more appropriate adult mentors or advocates beyond his parent(s) is also greatly increased. So, only the dastardly dullards born to the affluent have any hope of private jet or being voted into public office. In “Ragged Dick”, the dull wealthy boys set a fire in which some black children may have perished if young Dick had not bravely attempted rescue. He was rewarded for his bravery with place at the small private school for wealthy children in the just post- Civil War Maryland region, and he was very grateful for this opportunity because he couldn’t even save up enough pennies running errands while barefoot to buy the book he wanted in the shiny shop window.

IOW, not a new problem. Not any of it.

[BRUTE]

One problem with charter schools, or even schools of choice, is that they magnify the influence of involved, informed advocate parents on outcome. The difference between the best and worst schools within zip codes, driving distance, or school district increases. Sure, there are provisions that call for closing down or radically overhauling the schools that do not perform to standards, but that just leaves the students with the poorest advocate parents with the greatest likelihood of falling between the transitional cracks.

so the question is: should more involved, informed humans be allowed to benefit from their advantages, or should all humans be forced down to a common level?

brute's answer to this is clear.