My head was spinning a bit with Garrison Keillor getting the boot today too. I cannot recall ever seeing anything like this swift cultural change. Has anyone else?
@jean
As far as careers verses family... well, I personally hate that we have to make a choice. Wouldn't it be so much better to have social support so women could have children, a year off for each child- paid, and then a job to go back to? Instead, women are put in a rough spot - and considering how much the productivity is *not* needed - it is completely unnecessary. Men too. Why can't men have a year off to bond with their children as well. Of course ERE solves that problem... but most of mainstream culture will never get that benefit.
@classical_liberal
That is an interesting comparison. I am not surprised. FWIW, I too have some dread with this thread as well. Having rational discussions about touchy subjects is always a good challenge (for me anyhow)
@ffj
I don't think anyone here is saying 'all men', but in a sense how the culture, and how humans in general, work is a sort of group dynamic. If the culture is that 'men are allowed to pick on women' (by men getting away with it), then more men will pick on women than would, if say, it was clearly stated that it was unacceptable. People pick up on cues of what is okay behavior from those around them. That is why I would argue for even a few words of disapproval from those not guilty. Some will never listen, yes, but many others would change their behavior to be part of society. I think this ties in with the cultural differences you mentioned in your post. Western culture is better that some others, but in itself it too could be better.
I don't think it's a zero sum game. I don't think highlighting what women deal with takes away from other issues, including those that you are concerned about in your own personal life. If instead of focusing on the fact that white men don't do those behaviors in that particular video, just take in the fact that women have to put up with that crap! A lot of times men have no clue how awful it is. You might have a better idea than most, since you have some good points about power dynamics.
Also, part of the cause of the strength of my reaction to your post is that I've experienced the silencing women, by others saying "it is isn't that bad", or "it's not just women". This is part of oppression to me. The opposite of that is proclaiming that women do get to have their concerns matter. Women do get to be the center of attention. Because for a long time, that was not the case. Women have had to endure - not being able to vote, not being able to own property, not being allowed credit, getting fired for being pregnant, not being allowed to walk about in society alone (not just the middle east - this was the case in London not all that long ago!) "honor" rapes and killings. And things can change faster that you can imagine, even in modern societies. Iran wasn't that bad a place for women before the revolution.
@7w5
This - omg, so much this! Maybe its my INTPness, but I would rather just do it on my own that submit/work with certain ick factors - like the LA movie making scene. Not when a good iPhone and a three person crew would be enough to make your own movies. Same with several other past careers. Find a tribe of good allies and go around the horrible.7Wannabe5 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:52 amI guess my gut reaction would be that maybe women should do more to build alternate power structures at various levels since it's kind of more practical to say "F*ck you. I'm out and I'm taking my marbles with me." than it is to say "F*ck you. Let me in." But, I could be wrong.
Your DD is going to have a lot to navigate. My mom did the career thing, so I heard her stories and how crappy they were. Perhaps you could show your DD the path to just go around those turdy obstacles she will find on her way, rather than just commiserating about the hassle as I did with my mom, or learning how to work within the system. My mom is actually why I carry a big stick (PhD) as one way to go through obstacles - as opposed to going around them. A few alternative skills (aka mindset & thinking) is probably a better advantage, even in the careerism world, and would be more efficient that 10 years of college.
@tyler9000
Yeah, those power players running scared... I can believe it. Their whole world is turned upside down. Also, the knowledge of the schadenfreude they are providing must just be galling.