SOS: 3 hours to decide whether to quit career or "improve"? / :

Anything to do with the traditional world of get a degree, get a job as well as its alternatives
TopHatFox
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SOS: 3 hours to decide whether to quit career or "improve"? / :

Post by TopHatFox »

just got broached by my company's CIO that I have two options, to be chosen by tomorrow at 10 AM:

1. Go on a 30-day "improvement period" on top of all current work
2. Separate from the firm with 5 weeks severance

I don't really know what to think or do. I've been working hard. I get in at 8:30 and leave at 6:30. I try to do as much as of my increasing to-do list every day. I am being asked for 110% accuracy and communication in 100% of work and conversations.

I'm sure I'm not the first to face this. I've been feeling anxious and sad about work for weeks now, so I'm thinking of #2. I am scared and excited that I won't know what to do after though. I also need the orthognathic surgery the firm's health insurance covers, but I'll lose the insurance after a month or two. Is there a way to continue purchasing that insurance if I choose #2?

Trying the improvement period sounds awful too. In addition to being perfect at all my current work, I also need to be perfect in additional projects? Sounds like building me up for failure, and adding more job anxiety. I do have 60K saved up, with annual expenses of 10K.

Thoughts?

Fish
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Re: SOS: 3 hours to decide whether to quit career or improve? / :

Post by Fish »

Unless you know what your deficiencies are and are able to correct them, I would just take the severance. Do you want the 5 weeks’ pay upfront or do you want to work for it? Does the severance include some continuation of the health insurance (until the end of the month at least?) and if not, is COBRA available?

From COBRA FAQs at: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ebsa/about ... compliance
The qualifying events for employees are:

Voluntary or involuntary termination of employment for reasons other than gross misconduct

I’ve had the opportunity to observe two people at my workplace who had “improvement plans” implemented. Both were good people, but one was a personality misfit and the other was simply incompetent. Both put forth their best efforts. The former was fired at the end of the 30-day period; the latter received 2 extensions (he had a kind manager) and was fired after 90 days. Now I view improvement plans as a sort of terminal illness. Better to save your energy for moving on and starting anew rather than hanging on for dear life.

Smashter
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Re: SOS: 3 hours to decide whether to quit career or "improve"? / :

Post by Smashter »

Wow, sorry. I would agree with Fish. I am sure you are smart and resourceful enough to quickly land on your feet at another high paying job, if that's what you want.

Riggerjack
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Re: SOS: 3 hours to decide whether to quit career or "improve"? / :

Post by Riggerjack »

I'll third the rest. Unless you know what the problem is already, and want to address it, doesn't sound like it, you will probably be out the door anyway. Better to take the money, and chalk it up to a bad fit.

Keep your head up, and your mouth shut. I'll tell a story of a time I had faced a similar situation.

When I started cabling, mid 90's, my second job was at a small shop, 45 techs or so. Management was the worst I had ever seen, including my time in the army. Every project was set up to fail.

I was told to start at the shop Friday morning, not a good sign. My boss, Craig, gives me the news, and my final paycheck, and we get to talking about how things are. In the middle of my description, he cuts me off, telling me he doesn't need a tech to tell him how to manage a company. I lost what little cool I had, and said "manage a company? You couldn't manage a company pick nick!"

It was a nice cap on a bad day, but it made me feel better.

Next I went to work for a small start up, and that failed. Next at a big, established shop. I hire on, do good work, and just as we are wrapping up, my boss brings in the new project manager... Craig. Turns out the last company eventually came to the same conclusion that I had. But, the good news is I get another assignment, in no way connected to Craig.

Until about 6 months later, when he shows up at the new assignment, letting me know he's there to "take care of any problems I might have." I explained that I had been there 6 months, and no problems. To which he just smiled and repeated that he was there to take care of any problems I might have.

Strangely, 2 weeks later, I was laid off. Craig canned me from 2 jobs, and then followed me to another shop a year later.

2 lessons here. Keep your mouth shut. Managers asking for input is a trap. And if you can't keep your mouth shut, know how small a pool you are pissing in. Cabling is small enough that after a few years, everyone knows everyone. This can be both good, and bad.

Tomorrow, you get a bonus, and extra time off! 6 years expenses saved, not a bad place to be at all.

IlliniDave
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Re: SOS: 3 hours to decide whether to quit career or "improve"? / :

Post by IlliniDave »

Leaving might be the best option, but I'd try to find out what they perceive your deficiencies are. It takes a lot for someone to get on an improvement plan at my employer, usually a couple years of problems, so I am not sure my experience is relevant. But I've been the coach/advocate of two guys in a formal improvement plan. Both guys were honestly blind to what caused them to get on the plan to begin with.

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C40
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Re: SOS: 3 hours to decide whether to quit career or "improve"? / :

Post by C40 »

I'm very far from an expert on these things.. If you think there's a chance of you improving and you want to try, try. If you try that and it doesn't work out, I believe it's likely they will still give you severance after that.

IDK how tough the job market is right now, but sometimes having a current job helps quite a lot in getting a new job, so one thing to consider is to take the improvement plan, work hard at it, but work even harder outside of work to find a new job.

All that said... if you're getting on an improvement plan this early-on is usually a really bad sign - whether for you, or the company, or that you and the company just don't match well. Don't get too down on yourself though. I worked for a company while in University where I just didn't fit in right. They did a poor job of giving me useful work/guidance/coaching, and I didn't do so well myself either. When I neared graduation, when I told my boss that I was quitting my job there so I'd have more time for my other job and for finding a full-time job for after I graduate, I could tell that my boss was relieved to have me leaving myself and that he wouldn't have to tell me I couldn't work for them after I graduated. Then I went to work for another company after I graduated and I kicked ass. My personality and work style matched better in the second company, and they did a way better job of giving me clear assignments and guidance, and things clicked.

Whether you leave or not, demand that they give you really clear and frank and unsoftened feedback on what they saw as your issues. When giving feedback, people often soften the blow. Ask them not to and instead to give it to you totally straight.

BRUTE
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Re: SOS: 3 hours to decide whether to quit career or "improve"? / :

Post by BRUTE »

THF should find out what they think he needs to improve on. maybe it's a real thing. maybe they're full of shit.

Tyler9000
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Re: SOS: 3 hours to decide whether to quit career or "improve"? / :

Post by Tyler9000 »

In my experience, your employer asking you to go on an improvement plan is kinda like your wife asking for a break. They've already made up their mind and are just looking for an excuse to pull the trigger. It's possible to save things if it's really important to you, but it's going to be hard. It may be worth it for a marriage but it's asking a lot for a job.

But don't leave without getting an honest assessment of what they see as the disconnect (assuming you don't already know -- these things usually don't come out of nowhere). Maybe it's something you really do need to change, or maybe it's something you can learn to avoid when looking for your next employer. Either way, you'll have learned something about yourself that you can use to build a better future. Everything happens for a reason.

Regarding healthcare, if you choose to leave your two best options will be COBRA and the ACA exchange.

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C40
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Re: SOS: 3 hours to decide whether to quit career or "improve"? / :

Post by C40 »

Also - it's possible to purchase the same health insurance you have after your employment stops. It's called COBRA and I believe it's usually so ridiculously expensive that it won't make sense to do.

Scott 2
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Re: SOS: 3 hours to decide whether to quit career or "improve"? / :

Post by Scott 2 »

I'd use the improvement plan to get feedback, as candid as possible. I agree it's likely you would get the severance anyway, if it goes poorly. The firm is probably using the offer of severance up front to see if you are serious enough to bother mentoring.

Something has failed in the relationship, it's worth understanding what. You are a smart and thoughtful guy, so it seems unlikely to me you're just incompetent. My guess is you are focusing energy on the wrong things, ie quality instead of speed, or being right instead of being liked. This is specific to the firm, and it's possible they can help you figure it out.

I agree with others that a big part of the problem is finding an employer that is a good fit for your personality. There nothing wrong with you as a person. That doesn't mean you shouldn't take what you can from this one though.

If choosing the severance, I'd ensure it did not mean I was quitting, so I'd qualify for unemployment once severance payments end.

It's unlikely you'd want to do the Cobra insurance, it's probably much more expensive than anything you'd buy.

TopHatFox
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Re: SOS: 3 hours to decide whether to quit career or "improve"? / :

Post by TopHatFox »

Is there anything I need to say tomorrow morning to continue the health insurance?

Is there a possibility to negotiate the severance in this case? I talked about it with close older friends, and they agreed that it's not only not a good fit, but this company has a ridiculously high bar.

My flaws are that I don't produce flawless work the first time around. I also asked for a handful of extensions. I went to a doctor's appointment and emailed the semi-correct person that it ran over two hours. And I asked a superior a few basic questions about bonds which were covered in a class session. In short, I'm not perfect. Oooo, neither is anyone else. Except for the few folks working there apparently~

I am curious to ask them for the raw truth tomorrow. I'll take notes.
Last edited by TopHatFox on Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.

TopHatFox
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Re: SOS: 3 hours to decide whether to quit career or "improve"? / :

Post by TopHatFox »

Scott 2 wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:37 pm
I'd use the improvement plan to get feedback, as candid as possible. I agree it's likely you would get the severance anyway, if it goes poorly. The firm is probably using the offer of severance up front to see if you are serious enough to bother mentoring.

Something has failed in the relationship, it's worth understanding what. You are a smart and thoughtful guy, so it seems unlikely to me you're just incompetent. My guess is you are focusing energy on the wrong things, ie quality instead of speed, or being right instead of being liked. This is specific to the firm, and it's possible they can help you figure it out.

I agree with others that a big part of the problem is finding an employer that is a good fit for your personality. There nothing wrong with you as a person. That doesn't mean you shouldn't take what you can from this one though.

If choosing the severance, I'd ensure it did not mean I was quitting, so I'd qualify for unemployment once severance payments end.

It's unlikely you'd want to do the Cobra insurance, it's probably much more expensive than anything you'd buy.
Should I ask to be "fired" then? Wouldn't that make it harder to get another job, if I go down that route? Rather than "quitting"?

Tyler9000
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Re: SOS: 3 hours to decide whether to quit career or "improve"? / :

Post by Tyler9000 »

Hmm. It sounds like it may be a different type of environment than I'm used to, so maybe take my "they've already made a decision" advice with a grain of salt. In any case, the most important thing is to decide whether it's a good mutual fit worth fighting for. If not, move on and find a company that is.

Follow your gut and do what you think is right. Just don't burn bridges.
Last edited by Tyler9000 on Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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C40
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Re: SOS: 3 hours to decide whether to quit career or "improve"? / :

Post by C40 »

Someone else please chime in here.. but AFAIK, the whole quit vs fired thing in relation to finding the next job is moot. When potential employers call your previous employer's HR department, the HR person just confirms that you used to work there, and that you don't work there anymore. They don't say what happened or whether you were fired or quit. I believe that is what's "normal". If you use someone there as a reference, (or if the HR person is unresponsively chatty) they may share details

classical_Liberal
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Re: SOS: 3 hours to decide whether to quit career or "improve"? / :

Post by classical_Liberal »

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Last edited by classical_Liberal on Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

classical_Liberal
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Re: SOS: 3 hours to decide whether to quit career or "improve"? / :

Post by classical_Liberal »

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Last edited by classical_Liberal on Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BRUTE
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Re: SOS: 3 hours to decide whether to quit career or "improve"? / :

Post by BRUTE »

C40 wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:20 pm
unresponsively chatty
what is that

Scott 2
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Re: SOS: 3 hours to decide whether to quit career or "improve"? / :

Post by Scott 2 »

I can't imagine a prospective employer caring about "fired" vs "quit" from a situation like this. They would care about how you speak of the experience - ie not a fit vs bunch of uptight jerks.

I don't know if you've worked long enough to qualify for unemployment, or what the benefit might be. Another month could matter here.

If taking the severance, I'd be upfront about my concerns over health insurance and unemployment before signing anything. "Help me understand what the severance means. What happens to my medical insurance? Will I still be able to qualify for unemployment? I don't think I can find a new job in 5 weeks, and it's going to create a financial hardship. I moved here just for this job, I am committed to a lease."

I would only ask this if I was already certain I was taking the severance. It's a very one sided negotiation, your only power is their desire to avoid complications. Put their back against a wall, and you could quickly end up with nothing.

slowtraveler
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Re: SOS: 3 hours to decide whether to quit career or "improve"? / :

Post by slowtraveler »

I'm sorry to hear it's been so stressful.

I think your gut has already told you that you do not feel like a match.

There may have been too many early inconveniences for them relative to expectations, maybe the company does this often to find who is a good match for them. I do not know for sure but I am guessing your resume is pretty fresh and that you can find a new job that is a better match once you've made the decision to do so. It is a big world and there are many cities you could work in since you are young and mobile.

I would personally hold off on the medical as it does not sound life threatening, it seems like you have enough on your plate and any surgery takes energy out of you for some time.

Fish
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Re: SOS: 3 hours to decide whether to quit career or "improve"? / :

Post by Fish »

Generally, COBRA is too expensive to be worthwhile, but you have up to 60 days after the “qualifying event” (the day you lose medical insurance due to your severance) to elect coverage. It limits your financial downside due to medical expenses. If nothing significant happens during those 60 days, the option expires worthless. On the other hand, if during the COBRA enrollment period you were to incur huge medical expenses *cough* orthognathic surgery *cough*, then you pay that expense out of pocket, save your receipts, enroll ASAP and submit a claim for reimbursement. Obviously, it would be a calculated decision where the insurance-covered amount exceeds the COBRA premium. And lastly, I don’t really know much about the subject and you should confirm with your own research.

For more information: https://www.dol.gov/sites/default/files ... nsumer.pdf

Best of luck navigating this situation. And none of this will matter in 10 years when you’re FI/ERE. ;)

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