I'm starting to hate my 9-5?

[TopHatFox]

@loner, not many. Because most people don't save nor have the ability to. Also, it's a great problem to have. Even if they are miserable for a time, I'm sure they can figure out how to entertain themselves/find meaning quickly enough.

I don't think I've chosen work I hate as much as there isn't as much good work out there, especially if it pays well. It's what illinidave said. If this were fun they'd charge you at the door. Rangers, ski instructors, mountain guides. etc. get paid significantly less than doctors, lawyers, and business people--for more physically strenuous and dangerous work.

The work I want to do includes sailing, hiking, flirting, and maybe writing. For fun. Nope, I think I'll stay on the salary train for now.

I don't want to runaway from work as much as I want to not be a servant in capitalism. I want to be the traveling capitalist in this set-up. I'm sure I can find something meaningful or entertaining to do. Maybe sailing around the South ocean with my partner typing shit on the computer for desk jockeys to read. Call that "work" if you want. Weekends and more so evenings fill up fast around here!

[classical_Liberal]

...

[BRUTE]

<whatever Zalo's name is now> is looking for salvation. salvation does not exist. not in college, not in work, not in romance, not in polyamory, not in FI.

the most helpful realization that brute ever had was this: everything and everyone is shit. giving up is the only way to achieve true freedom. expectations are failure. especially expectations of the self.

[SustainableHappiness]

the most helpful realization that brute ever had was this: everything and everyone is shit.

The most helpful realization sustainable happiness ever had was on a mushroom trip when he realized the opposite of brute. Everything is magnificent and a world unto it's own. However this led him to a similar conclusion of giving up on expectations...go figure

[TopHatFox]

Try to focus on enjoying the journey rather than the destination. Like in travel, the most interesting part is how you get there.

Becoming more competent at your job will provide you will some fulfillment, as will the professional achievements that follow. What other things can you take from this experience (web of goals)?

I like this advice. It'll potentially lead to more pay raises and responsibility increases too. This in turn will give more meaning to each day, or at least make them go faster.

[IlliniDave]

I agree with @wood and @sustainablehappiness. Knowing there are alternatives to wage slavery puts you at a happiness disadvantage.

That's interesting because the opposite was my experience (I have that observation a lot around here, haha!). When I first started thinking about the next phase of life in earnest I was still employing conventional thinking and was just shy of the halfway point in an expected 40-45 year "career". I had resigned myself to decades more of turning the crank while little bits of sausage dribbled into the bowl. I adapt well to the corporate ecosystem (in the sense I find ways to make the superficially dull interesting) so I didn't see that as an awful fate, but it wasn't very inspiring either. As I gradually determined that I could build my own off ramp rather than relying on the one provided by societal norms I was invigorated. Even the most menial tasks had a noble purpose in a time frame short enough to be more than an abstraction. That's not to say I don't get impatient some times. I work just as hard at finding ways to spin things positively or neutrally as some do to spin things negatively, which is what it all boils down to I'd guess.

[Loner]

@Zalo
"there isn't as much good work out there"-> True if you believe it, untrue if you don't. To a point, liking what you do is a choice.

"If this were fun they'd charge you at the door.[...] Rangers, ski instructors, mountain guides. etc. get paid significantly less than doctors, lawyers, and business people." Who said that being a doctor, lawyer and business person is inherently less fun than being a ranger, ski instructor or mountain guide? Is this an immutable law of nature? This will depend, amongst other things, on the match between your job and your temperament.

"The work I want to do includes sailing, hiking, flirting, and maybe writing. For fun."-> Have you considered becoming James Bond?

[classical_Liberal]

...

[Riggerjack]

Cancel your plans this weekend, answer a Craigslist ad for drywall help. Bust your ass for a pittance. Go back to the office Monday, sore and tired.

I may sound like a grouchy old man talking to a spoiled child, but this is my honest advice. You need perspective. You need to have something to compare what you are currently working on, that makes your work seem better. And more importantly, you need to learn to have a good time, when the dust clogs your nose, fills your eyes, and makes you cough. When you are tired, and sweaty, have been packing panels all day up stairs, with hours left to go, and are laughing with the guys you work with, then you are ready to work in an office.

Nothing is good or bad but thinking makes it so. (Did I just quote fcukin Shakespeare!?? I gotta get out of the office more.)

[TopHatFox]

"The work I want to do includes sailing, hiking, flirting, and maybe writing. For fun."-> Have you considered becoming James Bond?

Yes, the pay sucks

[IlliniDave]

I believe this was true for me as well... at first. In the "mind blown, why didn't I think of this before" initial phase, I became much more upbeat. This waned quickly after action steps were taken and much of the financial-side goals became automagical. Instead, I started to focus how much better life would be in total freedom of work; hence became less satisfied with my current situation. Switching to an ERE mindset (vs bogleheads which focuses only on financial) has helped, now I have more work to do from a systems flows standpoint.

I get what you are saying. That's where my lean towards Zen philosophy helps me maybe. I've taught myself to keep my attention with me and at least seriously curb it's propensity to fly off and create tension/stress by dwelling on what isn't real at the moment. I also take opportunities to dry-run retirement. In a couple days I leave for a 32-day away from work period which will include time "back home" with family and time at the cabin-in-the-woods (both cornerstones in the early years of my ER vision). It reminds me I'm not barred from enjoying life for years at a time because I'm not retired today; and I can see/touch what the money I'm working to pile up is buying me. Satisfaction comes from seeing that my labor bears fruit when the connection is established. Obviously I believe the free future will be better in many ways, but that's not an impediment to being happy, content, whatever, now. For me, if I was unhappy now and viewed some future situation as prerequisite for my happiness, it would be a pitfall stumbled into. If I'm not happy now I won't be happy in 21 months due to superficial changes. I guess I'm wired bad because I don't see a horrible-to-blissful path out there where being employed is all that holds me back. Maybe it's more fun if I could make a dramatic, titanic struggle out of it. As it is, it's just showing up and turning the crank every day. Unexciting, but dependable.

Maybe a "systems flows standpoint" will help. I hope it does for you. I really don't quite grasp the concept myself. That's on purpose, sorta. In my profession "system" has multiple (though each one precise) meanings, and when people write about systems here it makes my head hurt. I'm maxed out on the number of different ways I can simultaneously think about system theory.

[7Wannabe5]

Do you think you would feel differently if your job was more piece-work than 9-5? For instance, if you were tasked with helping to build a stone wall, and you were paid $2 for every stone you put in place, and as soon as you were able to put 100,000 stones in place you would be FI? I think this is why doing an exercise like making a monthly entry into a YMOYL style cross-over chart can be motivating. I think some people (me) might need more frequent tangible pumps of motivational reward juice towards ultimate goal. Producing a good, rather than providing a service, is more in alignment with this. That's why "A man may work from sun to sun, but a woman's work is never done." Being able to get to DONE or next mile marker on your own terms might feel freeing, even if that means actually working more rather than less. For instance, you could take on a side-gig with piece-work structure in addition to your day job.

[Allagash]

Some random thoughts:

-I worked at start ups in Silicon Valley in the 90's and mostly hated my jobs and had to drink a pot of coffee since the work was really tough and demanding

-I did it to get rich but never really liked technology that much - most of it was BS politics and working with bi-polar insane workaholic bosses

-I hated the social part of the job, having to put on a happy face, ask people superficially how their weekend was, work with shallow f'd up mentally people, jealousies, back stabbing, clicks, tribalism, ass kissing, pissing contests, etc... People I didn't like or would not choose to hang out with personally I was forced to work with. You can choose your friends, not your co-workers. I was meant to be an independent contractor or self-employed. No way can I work in a organization and the organizational psychology that develops as a result.

-Caffeine can be tough to stop - I switched to loose leaf green tea in 2002 because it is easier on my body than coffee, but that still I believe it negatively affects my health due to the caffeine. Today's jobs that largely require you to sit at a screen all day and use your mind vs. your body is a reason caffeine is so popular. 200 years ago you were likely on the family farm (or making something by hand in a shop), and you got up, fed the pigs, worked on projects, were out in the sun, trees and the fresh air...and that physical movement woke you up and kept your blood pumping vs. the need for caffeine. My biggest issue with caffeine is it affects the quality of my sleep, and therefore the quality of my health. And other issues like tenseness, jittery, dehydration, gums and teeth don't feel as healthy. But it is difficult to do without that caffiene jolt in the am

[James_0011]

@alllagash

Did you get rich?

@olaz

I just started working in the corporate world this summer and feel the same way. I don't mind the actual work sonmuh but I hate the social politics bs, I already feel like I'm in the outsider group because I'm not playing in the fantasy football league lol.

Also, I'm not sure what exactly I can say to my co workers and what I can't, so I don't say much. A lot of the people in my office are openly anti trump- which suprises me as someone higher up could easily have voted for him.

On the positive side, atleast you're far ahead of me saving a wise. If I could go back and do I all over again I would have saved way more when I was younger (still only 25) if I had known what working was like.

Is there any chance of finding a company that will let you work remotely? My plan is to work a few years to get experience, then find a role that will let me work from home 100% of the time. I'm in the tech field though, so this is pretty common.

[Demosthenes]

I had very similar feelings as you THF even before hearing about ERE. Luckily it goes in waves. T9000 is correct that you will eventually find your stride. Everyone will start to look up to you and you'll feel like you are where you belong. And then you look down and see you're still in chains like a sucker and fall back down to the bottom of the roller coaster. Wood is correct that knowing about ERE makes it worse.

[Allagash]

@alllagash

Did you get rich?

I never quite hit the stock options jackpot I chased in the 90's. Made a great salary in my 20's but blew it all on wine, women, and song.

[Jean]

I enjoyed physical work (lumber, agriculture) more than academic work. If you are making good money, stay there until you make plan to kill yourself, then quit.

[BRUTE]

quit to execute the plan?

[steelerfan]

Ah, the double edged sword of discovering ERE when you are young. You have endless possibilities to achieve anything you desire but the knowledge you have tortures you when you are starting out with seemingly an endless cascade of days in front of you. I envy you and don’t envy you. I was in no way as knowledgeable or focused as some of you. Still, while I was not exactly frugal, I have simple tastes and am basically antisocial - although most people I know aren’t aware of it. I am after all the commissioner of the office fantasy football league! By the time I found this board, we more or less muddled our way into a decent financial scenario once the kids are on their feet - soon. Having the right spouse had a lot to do with that. I have been looking at the pictures on the cave wall for decades longer than hopefully you will. But still no regrets. That solves nothing other than to drain today of energy.

*Lots* of excellent advice from previous posters. If you make the right moves you can be right where you want in 10 years or less. Save aggressively, but you are only in your twenties for a blink. Try to strike a balance and make more mindful moves than I did. I had fun - but with a plan I could be so much further ahead. Think taxable accounts you can access when FI. I really was at zero other than having a mortgaged house at 30. Think about how much further ahead you will be. Look at every day to work on life skills that will enable you to be better and more resilient. Hard skills are important but really soft skills are what move you up. Be a good listener. Be observant. Keep secrets and be discreet. Help your boss succeed. In short take the time to make yourself unique and indispensable without being a douchey ass-kisser. It is a hard balancing act - that I have not mastered. It pays to be aligned with the discipline of your CEO. Salesmen CEOs run/see things much differently than an Accountant CEOs or Ops/Engineering CEOs. This feature alone will tell you if you are in the ruling tribe. If you are not in the ruling tribe, it is difficult to move too far upward. In that case, consider leaving for a better match. Last thing - do not talk about Fight Club. Do not tell anyone about this place until you walk out the door.

In short, suck it up for a while and take stock of how each month you are growing personally as well as financially. Within a year things will look a lot different - for the better. Unless you let your angst poison the well. I think we all have seen people come here and get bitter. I could name a few around here that have disappeared. Work your plan and thrive. Good luck.

[alojz_neckar]

I can totally understand you because I hate it from the beginning. It was 1.5 ys _before_ reading ERE.

I hate AC, I hate microfiber in the air, filtered water from machines... not taking colleagues into the account.

I tried a few alternatives. Working in shifts -> it only makes clearer when you return to 9-5 that 9-5 is inhumane. Unfortunately there are not so many well-paying jobs in shifts out there.
Construction works, working in a factory -> same as in an office but for less money.

But writing down the amounts exactly saved month by month might be a good idea.