There are so many of these lifestyle design advocates out there blogging about how you could be like them, blogging to you, about how they blog to you, and make a living.
There is this one guy endorsed by Seth Godin, Charlie Hoehn, who has created a slide show about the concept of "Free-work" which from what I understand is like volunteering in an industry that you want to be a part of. This applies to me because I will be a graduate soon enough. If your interested the link is http://www.slideshare.net/choehn/recess ... te-1722966
Do you think one should try and do stuff they are really interested in and gain "skills" rather than going the traditional route, or are these guys just talking out of their asses?
How Successful are these Bloggers?
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AlexOliver
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They job industry is brainwashing our entire generation into working for free in the form of internships. Things that used to be paid, such as on the job training, are now unpaid. Interns are slaves and the whole system's ridiculous.
Though, if you can only get employment in your field if you've had experience through internships... I don't really know what to say. I wouldn't voluntarily go for it though, it's a scam.
With regards to actual bloggers, there's a thousand making nothing for every one making a living. Even more for those who make piles of money. It's a pyramid.
Though, if you can only get employment in your field if you've had experience through internships... I don't really know what to say. I wouldn't voluntarily go for it though, it's a scam.
With regards to actual bloggers, there's a thousand making nothing for every one making a living. Even more for those who make piles of money. It's a pyramid.
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jacob
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See http://saltydroid.info/copyblogger-six-figure-flogging/
Then read beyondgrowth.net ...
All career advise is tricky because most people only know about one career, their own. For instance, I got my career advice from people who graduated in the 1970s when there was a gold rush in the nuclear industry. All you had to do back then to rise to the top and secure a professorship after a couple of years was to work hard. And that's what they told me.
But that's no longer true. The hiring process and landscape has changed significantly. These days it's important who you know, who you've worked for, and how many awards you've accumulated (better make sure your past bosses were into the award show and signed you up). Working hard is no longer the critical variable.
I suspect the same holds for career advise. No doubt free work worked for that guy. He got Godin's blessing. I bet there are lots of people who tried free work and got nowhere. I get the same gist when I read lists of "top ten interview skills". Many of them are contradictory.
In particular, people will pay you when you provide value and their only way of still getting that value is to pay for it. Conceivably you could work your way into a company for free until they belatedly realize that you're the only one who understands their 5000 employee accounting system at which point you can probably demand any salary. On the other hand, if you're mainly sweeping the floors and tending the coffee machines ... your networking skills better be better than mine.
You should be very careful about volunteering for companies who think that being associated with them and adding an entry to your resume is good enough. Don't work on some useless project exclusively for the references. At least I wouldn't.
[Oh yeah, and don't take career advice from someone who quit his and no longer needs one
]
Then read beyondgrowth.net ...
All career advise is tricky because most people only know about one career, their own. For instance, I got my career advice from people who graduated in the 1970s when there was a gold rush in the nuclear industry. All you had to do back then to rise to the top and secure a professorship after a couple of years was to work hard. And that's what they told me.
But that's no longer true. The hiring process and landscape has changed significantly. These days it's important who you know, who you've worked for, and how many awards you've accumulated (better make sure your past bosses were into the award show and signed you up). Working hard is no longer the critical variable.
I suspect the same holds for career advise. No doubt free work worked for that guy. He got Godin's blessing. I bet there are lots of people who tried free work and got nowhere. I get the same gist when I read lists of "top ten interview skills". Many of them are contradictory.
In particular, people will pay you when you provide value and their only way of still getting that value is to pay for it. Conceivably you could work your way into a company for free until they belatedly realize that you're the only one who understands their 5000 employee accounting system at which point you can probably demand any salary. On the other hand, if you're mainly sweeping the floors and tending the coffee machines ... your networking skills better be better than mine.
You should be very careful about volunteering for companies who think that being associated with them and adding an entry to your resume is good enough. Don't work on some useless project exclusively for the references. At least I wouldn't.
[Oh yeah, and don't take career advice from someone who quit his and no longer needs one
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George the original one
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In some careers, unpaid internships are the way to get a leg up and/or are the norm (social work, politics, photography). They're also useful when you switch careers, like going from social work to computer support to law enforcement (and back to computer support in the case of one coworker).
Basically, one must be financially secure for the duration of an unpaid internship. If you can't afford to work someplace for 3-6 months without a paycheck, then you need to save a cushion that will make it happen if the internship is necessary for you career.
Staking out new ground in the blogosphere is the way bloggers become successful. The earlier they claim the topic, the more success they have.
Basically, one must be financially secure for the duration of an unpaid internship. If you can't afford to work someplace for 3-6 months without a paycheck, then you need to save a cushion that will make it happen if the internship is necessary for you career.
Staking out new ground in the blogosphere is the way bloggers become successful. The earlier they claim the topic, the more success they have.
I do believe there is a role for unpaid internships in the professions. With regard to law, law schools do not prepare students well for the practice (procedural techniques) or business (how money is made) of legal work. 3Ls and new attorneys need an experience where they can try things out without the risk of malpractice or embarassment. The time taken to supervise and mentor neophytes can rarely be billed to a client, so it seems fair to expect a brief unpaid internship within which to allow these experiments to unfold. If the law firm gains anything of reciprocal value, it is typically limited to the awareness that some interns will do well in the firm and others have no future, either in that particular firm or, unfortunately, in the wider profession. For a host of reasons, law schools can no longer be counted on as guarantors of adequate legal ability by their graduates.
At some point -- and it should be within less than a year -- the new lawyer should have some confidence in his or her abilities and sufficient awareness of the mechanics of practice to insist upon compensation for services rendered. Currently, it is the glut of unemployed but experienced attorneys, along with the global outsourcing of price-sensitive activities like document review, that is driving down the compensation levels for newer attorneys at a time when they are saddled with the highest loan debt in recent history: a train wreck in the making. It is unfortunate, but those who are neither willing nor able to accept the reality of an unpaid internship as a preparation for legal practice should not expect to enter the profession.
At some point -- and it should be within less than a year -- the new lawyer should have some confidence in his or her abilities and sufficient awareness of the mechanics of practice to insist upon compensation for services rendered. Currently, it is the glut of unemployed but experienced attorneys, along with the global outsourcing of price-sensitive activities like document review, that is driving down the compensation levels for newer attorneys at a time when they are saddled with the highest loan debt in recent history: a train wreck in the making. It is unfortunate, but those who are neither willing nor able to accept the reality of an unpaid internship as a preparation for legal practice should not expect to enter the profession.
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smileyriles
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I have just been mulling this over in my mind and it seems that this is why it is so necessary to achieve FI much sooner. It sucks if someone has to go work for free to grab some experience, but should we just stick to the traditional route of soul crushing jobs to be able to ERE instead of risking it and having to continually risk it if you can't make bank?
Bloggers like to exclaim they have so much fun and get to work on projects they're interested in, but for the majority this is unlikely and a really risky way to make money isn't it?
It seems as though they have created businesses out of fluff. I just don't understand how they keep it going. It seems more intellectually intensive than starting a traditional business, but a lot less likely to pay out. I've already gone to university and played the mainstream game, it's possible the next stage could be played just as easily but with a decent paycheck as long as there is that ERE check dangling in front of me. Side bloggy "cheese dickery" might just be able to contribute to the fun.
Bloggers like to exclaim they have so much fun and get to work on projects they're interested in, but for the majority this is unlikely and a really risky way to make money isn't it?
It seems as though they have created businesses out of fluff. I just don't understand how they keep it going. It seems more intellectually intensive than starting a traditional business, but a lot less likely to pay out. I've already gone to university and played the mainstream game, it's possible the next stage could be played just as easily but with a decent paycheck as long as there is that ERE check dangling in front of me. Side bloggy "cheese dickery" might just be able to contribute to the fun.
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George the original one
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> It seems as though they have created businesses
> out of fluff.
Truer words have not been spoken, excepting maybe if the business is selling pet rocks.
The reality of modern life, however, is that many businesses are fluff. Many businesses are based on selling you something that you don't need or want. Even the businesses selling desired items have to compete with each other, so there's a lot of hyperbole and fluff in their sales tactics.
> out of fluff.
Truer words have not been spoken, excepting maybe if the business is selling pet rocks.
The reality of modern life, however, is that many businesses are fluff. Many businesses are based on selling you something that you don't need or want. Even the businesses selling desired items have to compete with each other, so there's a lot of hyperbole and fluff in their sales tactics.
Well, there's a difference between a time-limited summer internship where you are afforded opportunities to argue in court, conduct interviews, conduct trials, participate in discussions on the best way to proceed with a case, etc. And what Hoehn is suggesting of contacting companies, long after graduation, and doing work for free with no guidance, access, or academic credit received in return.
And there are other ways to get experience other than working for a for-profit partnership for free. Like working/volunteering for organizations that provide free/cheap legal services for low-income people. Or temporarily working for a low-rate at a small practice.
Not that I seriously plan on practicing anyway since I don't need to.
And I have to take issue with this:
With regard to law, law schools do not prepare students well for the practice (procedural techniques) or business (how money is made) of legal work.
So much of my education has felt, instead, like training in order to make money. There's a strong emphasis on all the various types of legal writing. Entire classes are devoted to billing techniques, marketing, interviewing, negotiating, managing the lawyer/client relationship, managing an office, cash flow issues, managing payrolls, exploring legal software suites, filing complaints, responses, appeals, which courts to use for what, which forms to use, where to get them, there are many hours of mandatory court observations, and dozens of experienced attorneys visit to discuss the specifics of their own varied practices. I'd rather some more esoteric classes, frankly, they're more interesting and I think, ultimately, make for better jurists and a stronger legal system than a bunch of people who simply know how to manage a billing system, are masters at filling out the forms in their limited practice area and know how to follow a few rules.
And there are other ways to get experience other than working for a for-profit partnership for free. Like working/volunteering for organizations that provide free/cheap legal services for low-income people. Or temporarily working for a low-rate at a small practice.
Not that I seriously plan on practicing anyway since I don't need to.
And I have to take issue with this:
With regard to law, law schools do not prepare students well for the practice (procedural techniques) or business (how money is made) of legal work.
So much of my education has felt, instead, like training in order to make money. There's a strong emphasis on all the various types of legal writing. Entire classes are devoted to billing techniques, marketing, interviewing, negotiating, managing the lawyer/client relationship, managing an office, cash flow issues, managing payrolls, exploring legal software suites, filing complaints, responses, appeals, which courts to use for what, which forms to use, where to get them, there are many hours of mandatory court observations, and dozens of experienced attorneys visit to discuss the specifics of their own varied practices. I'd rather some more esoteric classes, frankly, they're more interesting and I think, ultimately, make for better jurists and a stronger legal system than a bunch of people who simply know how to manage a billing system, are masters at filling out the forms in their limited practice area and know how to follow a few rules.
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jacob
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@smileyriles - Only consider blogging if you 1) like being self-employed 2) are willing to write for a year without seeing much pay ... it takes that long to make more than coffee money---generally 6 months to see your first $100 (that's $16.66/month, eh) for most newbie bloggers 3) is able to come up with new stuff or alternatively don't mind repeating yourself over and over... most bloggers have a 3 month crisis where they hit the wall and are unable to come up with new stuff 4) are willing to write professionally.
Writing professionally is particularly important because if you're problogging you'll be writing what people would want to read, what sells, not necessarily what you'd want to write. Soon your writing will start sounding like an infomercial and your blog will turn into a platform for your ebook, etc., and you'll start writing positive reviews to snag your syndicate friends' affiliate commissions. In fact problogging is much more about SEO, sales, networking, and advertising than it is about writing. If you're writing for money, you're not writing for experts. You're writing for people who have no clue about your topic and your job is to make sure those people read your blog and buy your stuff instead of some of the better stuff out there.
You mentioned lifestyle blogging. Now, you don't have to blog about lifestyle in particular. You could also blog about cooking, cars, home renovation, or whatever. Lifestyle blogging is perhaps particular absurd because it is self-referential: blogging about "how to become a blogger" like me... except as shown in the link that's highly unlikely.
The way to success is, as mentioned above, to fill some niche. The question is whether you can do that. I see about 500 personal finance blogs in existence. Many of them are poorly written---that's okay, practice makes perfect. Most of them are the same---that's not okay, because you're competing against the rock stars. To wit, it doesn't take much musical skill to make music which sounds like a pop hit, some autotuning and a few beats and you're there. However, nobody is going to play your music on the radio. The only way in is to do something which is sufficiently unique that it can't be gotten anywhere else.
Writing professionally is particularly important because if you're problogging you'll be writing what people would want to read, what sells, not necessarily what you'd want to write. Soon your writing will start sounding like an infomercial and your blog will turn into a platform for your ebook, etc., and you'll start writing positive reviews to snag your syndicate friends' affiliate commissions. In fact problogging is much more about SEO, sales, networking, and advertising than it is about writing. If you're writing for money, you're not writing for experts. You're writing for people who have no clue about your topic and your job is to make sure those people read your blog and buy your stuff instead of some of the better stuff out there.
You mentioned lifestyle blogging. Now, you don't have to blog about lifestyle in particular. You could also blog about cooking, cars, home renovation, or whatever. Lifestyle blogging is perhaps particular absurd because it is self-referential: blogging about "how to become a blogger" like me... except as shown in the link that's highly unlikely.
The way to success is, as mentioned above, to fill some niche. The question is whether you can do that. I see about 500 personal finance blogs in existence. Many of them are poorly written---that's okay, practice makes perfect. Most of them are the same---that's not okay, because you're competing against the rock stars. To wit, it doesn't take much musical skill to make music which sounds like a pop hit, some autotuning and a few beats and you're there. However, nobody is going to play your music on the radio. The only way in is to do something which is sufficiently unique that it can't be gotten anywhere else.
I got a kick out of packaging "Free Work" as something to sell; isn't that what blogging for profit is to begin with? Lot's of free work in hopes of surpassing minimum wage someday? Perhaps by selling others on the idea of blogging for free?
Some fields have always required unpaid work because of the glut of applicants and a high threshold for marketable value. College athletics is one example; assuming the goal is to turn pro, what is it other than an unpaid (at least above-board) multi-year internship? The same goes for other passions, like acting, entertainment and broadcasting. A lot of unpaid work up front.
On the other side, I know some law firms that won't accept unpaid interns because they aren't worth the trouble, even for free, unless of course the intern is a close friend or blood relative of a partner or major client (might even find a small stipend for those). Ego crushing perhaps, but an unrealistic view of the market value of one's services is a common failing.
Whether to take something like this (unpaid work) is a very personal decision, and I appreciate the OP's concern over ERE money vs. choice of career. I do recall, however, Warren Buffet's observation that stock market investing provides the highest pay-per-IQ point of any endeavor and by a wide margin.
Some fields have always required unpaid work because of the glut of applicants and a high threshold for marketable value. College athletics is one example; assuming the goal is to turn pro, what is it other than an unpaid (at least above-board) multi-year internship? The same goes for other passions, like acting, entertainment and broadcasting. A lot of unpaid work up front.
On the other side, I know some law firms that won't accept unpaid interns because they aren't worth the trouble, even for free, unless of course the intern is a close friend or blood relative of a partner or major client (might even find a small stipend for those). Ego crushing perhaps, but an unrealistic view of the market value of one's services is a common failing.
Whether to take something like this (unpaid work) is a very personal decision, and I appreciate the OP's concern over ERE money vs. choice of career. I do recall, however, Warren Buffet's observation that stock market investing provides the highest pay-per-IQ point of any endeavor and by a wide margin.
@bigato
That seems like a good exchange. Perhaps I didn't make it clear in my own post above, but unpaid internships that merely expose someone to makework are like living death. But internships that genuinely impart new learning or skills are not really unpaid. It's just that the currency being exchanged is not money.
I've often thought of voluteering for Habitat for Humanity because it would reinforce some carpentry skills that I hardly ever get to use and introduce me to some of the new approaches to building to code. It's tough though because there are so many unemployed or underemployed tradesmen with far better skills who also volunteer. It makes sense to defer to their greater ability.
That seems like a good exchange. Perhaps I didn't make it clear in my own post above, but unpaid internships that merely expose someone to makework are like living death. But internships that genuinely impart new learning or skills are not really unpaid. It's just that the currency being exchanged is not money.
I've often thought of voluteering for Habitat for Humanity because it would reinforce some carpentry skills that I hardly ever get to use and introduce me to some of the new approaches to building to code. It's tough though because there are so many unemployed or underemployed tradesmen with far better skills who also volunteer. It makes sense to defer to their greater ability.
Let me jump in with my lack of knowledge showing.
1. How can one make money blogging? Don't you just pick a subject, set up a blog site, and wait for posters to read your stuff and comment? Are there many "paid subscription" blogs?
I thought the internet was the free exchange of ideas between people who know how to type.
2. Internship. So this is the act of hanging out with whatever trade or profession, for free, for the benefit of experience and exposure? I kind of knew that, but never paid much thought to doing it for free. As Maus says it's really an exchange but not money. Example, plumber. So a plumber thinks you got what it takes and he carries you around with him for 6 months, your taking the trade school courses at night, working with him via day. So, after six months you get a license and he either hires you at plumber wages, or you leapfrog from him to another plumbing company.
I think the guy took you in for his own benefit. He needs a trained guy, and he liked you, so he helped you. I think he also paid you, as he knows you got to eat. No, I don't think you work for free anywhere. Minimum wage maybe while training, but not free. You've got to eat. I have seen a lot of young guys interning but that was never what it was called. I think "apprentice" is a better word on skilled jobs.
1. How can one make money blogging? Don't you just pick a subject, set up a blog site, and wait for posters to read your stuff and comment? Are there many "paid subscription" blogs?
I thought the internet was the free exchange of ideas between people who know how to type.
2. Internship. So this is the act of hanging out with whatever trade or profession, for free, for the benefit of experience and exposure? I kind of knew that, but never paid much thought to doing it for free. As Maus says it's really an exchange but not money. Example, plumber. So a plumber thinks you got what it takes and he carries you around with him for 6 months, your taking the trade school courses at night, working with him via day. So, after six months you get a license and he either hires you at plumber wages, or you leapfrog from him to another plumbing company.
I think the guy took you in for his own benefit. He needs a trained guy, and he liked you, so he helped you. I think he also paid you, as he knows you got to eat. No, I don't think you work for free anywhere. Minimum wage maybe while training, but not free. You've got to eat. I have seen a lot of young guys interning but that was never what it was called. I think "apprentice" is a better word on skilled jobs.
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AlexOliver
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George the original one
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jeremymday
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I figured I would just chime in to echo everyone's statements here.
The only way to make a full time income as a blogger is to sell a product or service along with your blogging.
This could mean you get hired by one of the bigger blogs full time, or contract out your writing services full time.
Even huge blogs like the Huffington Post only have a few editors and writers working fulltime. Much of their stuff is either syndicated or one off pieces by other writers.
The only real way to make money online is to sell something, and it takes many years to learn the in's and out's of it.
As has been said elsewhere, the only way you are going to make money in the long term is to be passionate and persistent enough to stick with it.
Cheers,
Jeremy
The only way to make a full time income as a blogger is to sell a product or service along with your blogging.
This could mean you get hired by one of the bigger blogs full time, or contract out your writing services full time.
Even huge blogs like the Huffington Post only have a few editors and writers working fulltime. Much of their stuff is either syndicated or one off pieces by other writers.
The only real way to make money online is to sell something, and it takes many years to learn the in's and out's of it.
As has been said elsewhere, the only way you are going to make money in the long term is to be passionate and persistent enough to stick with it.
Cheers,
Jeremy