My partner earns far more than me but wants me to pay a half share

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James_0011
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Re: My partner earns far more than me but wants me to pay a half share

Post by James_0011 »

If you live in a small studio, apartment, or a room as a single dude it doesn't take "impossibly perfect" to clean up once and awhile...

ducknalddon
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Re: My partner earns far more than me but wants me to pay a half share

Post by ducknalddon »

BRUTE wrote:
Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:17 pm
when the bar is as low as "ability to cook AND clean up once in a while"..
Yet some people seem to struggle with even that, it reminds me of that Woody Allen quote "Showing up is 80 percent of life."

7Wannabe5
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Re: My partner earns far more than me but wants me to pay a half share

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

BRUTE needs a wife like a fish needs a bicycle. Granted.

However, still leaves open questions regarding whether BRUTE might "want" or "derive benefit" from a wife.

Let's commence the analysis with some totally retro premises:

1) The cost of BRUTE's "wife" will be that BRUTE has to "keep" (provide all necessary financial support) her at his current lifestyle level with only minor allotment for differing preferences/requirements.

2) The job description of "wife/helpmate" of BRUTE will require approximately 40 hours/week activity devoted to the furthering, improvement, increase of BRUTE's well-being (heath, wealth, pleasure...) First attention will be given to direct instructions from BRUTE with time remaining given to creative attempts to care for BRUTE better than he knows how to care for himself.

3) For the purposes of this puzzle, BRUTE and wife_of-BRUTE will be prohibited from any activity choice that could be construed as "sending her out to work for other in exchange for money." IOW, no activity that would generate a w2 or a 1099 issued by any individual or corporation besides BRUTE.

I am too lazy to flip through the forum in search of any exact information BRUTE may have offered, so my solution to puzzle may fail if examined down to the minute detail.

INITIAL ESTIMATE OF COST BEFORE ADJUSTMENTS:

1) Shelter: Small offering made to current landlord due to additional wear/tear premises and/or utility use. The wife_of_BRUTE will sleep and shower with him and store all of her personal belongings in 1 dresser drawer/4 hangers/2 bags/packs, so this will just be a token gesture- Maybe $50/month.

2) Food: This may be a bit of an expense prior to adjustment given BRUTE's adherence to paleo. Maybe $120/month or 2/3s of what BRUTE currently spends on food for himself.

3) Clothing/Personal Care: Depends a bit on whether BRUTE truly believes that wife_of_BRUTE looks cute wearing his cast-off overalls or he would prefer to throw down $10 for a couple dresses at the Goodwill. She will need some girl stuff, so let's call it- $20/month

4) Health: Hard to estimate given irrational market these-a-days. $50/month?

5) Communication/Technology/Entertainment/Treats: BRUTE will likely find it expedient to provide her with some sort of phone, so that he can offer updated instructions and/or check on her whereabouts/activities throughout the day. Maybe she will occasionally lose a book or a CD borrowed from the library or wish admittance to a museum.-$25/month

6) Misc.- $20/month

7) To keep puzzle in alignment with original article- $10,000 in debt BRUTE must pay off in full in order to release her from former bond. -$40/month.

TOTAL- $325/month or $3900/year.


THEREFORE, in order for BRUTE to derive benefit from the acquisition of a "wife", the value received from the fulfillment of the terms of Premise 2 must be greater than $3900/year. The clear reason why the concept of "dominance" is related to the solution-set of this puzzle is inherent in the "first attention given to instructions" clause, and also the perhaps not so obvious fact that in order to best derive benefit from acquisition of "wife", BRUTE will likely have to expand his own boundary of dominance (ownership/authority/responsibility) in the broader field.

I need to go make another pot of coffee, so I will leave aside the trivial completion of any of the multitudes of possible solutions to the BENEFITS half of this puzzle.

jacob
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Re: My partner earns far more than me but wants me to pay a half share

Post by jacob »

I've found there to be quite a range when it comes to home services---surprise surprise---especially after moving into a house. It seems that several "tasks" or "chores" have been invented simply to keep residents busy with meaningless tasks. Lawns and their eventual mowing comes to mind. Cleaning 1000sqft takes 5 times longer than cleaning 200sqft. Cleaning an additional toilet takes twice as long as cleaning a single toilet. Other things have been subject to additional complications to make things take three times longer, like handwash- or dry-clean-only, or ironing.

On the issue of food, there's a big difference between planning out a new meal every single day compared to getting into a routine. Now you're looking at an hour instead of half an hour (less if you're willing to eat the same thing two or more days in a row). Doing two or three courses is another way to spend a few hours in the kitchen every single day. Then there are personal habits. Certainly some people don't think twice about grabbing a clean spoon every time they need one and so they end up using five instead of one... which takes five times longer to clean. The more modern appliances that are involved, the greater the resulting cleanup. Observe different people's habits. There are huge differences in the amount of individual "waste" (dirty dishes, boards, utensils, etc.) generated in the process of cooking a single meal.

Keeping the house tidy is easy if everybody puts everything back in its place if they're done using it. Vacuuming even large areas (I used to clean institutions as a teen) is fast if people keep their shit off the floor and don't use edges and corners as additional storage area. Otherwise it takes forever. If one feels there's not enough to do, get 10-20 houseplants. And a pet. Then you'll also be dealing with regular watering, walking, and cleaning up fur, puke, dirt, and water.

One can spend anytime between 10 minutes a day on food and maintenance and practically all day every day.

Parkinson's law applies just as accurately to housework as it does to office work. All this could be done in less than a couple of hours ... but it can also be expanded to an all day effort.

In the past, people who could afford big houses with big complications could also afford labor, because it was cheap. Now, labor is expensive, but stuff is cheap, so people buy big houses with lots of stuff in them and work much more on them because they can't afford a maid and a gardener.

7Wannabe5
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Re: My partner earns far more than me but wants me to pay a half share

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@jacob:

I have to agree, especially given most grave offense of false economy ever on my part being the purchase of very large, very old house which was the least expensive/sq.ft. available in the tri-county area.

However, what you are considering is the expansion of the domain of home consumption, rather than the expansion of the domain of home production, or the improvement of the quality of home consumption within set domain. Since I have performed various experiments on minimalism and/or just-doing-the-work-in-front-of-me, I have noted that even if you rid yourself of all stuff, you could still spend every waking hour engaged in activities involving the maintenance of just the very narrow domain of your physical body. For instance, I could spend 30 minutes every day doing facial exercises and applying creams intended to forestall wrinkles, 8 minutes taking my blood pressure and recording results in spreadsheet, 2 hours at the hot yoga studio, 20 minutes researching new hairstyles on the internet, half-hour reading research report on heart diseases, etc. etc. etc. The amount of work you intend to do will always have to be spread over some domain. Part of the problem with being a lady-who-lunches style "kept" woman would be that it would be soooooooo boring. After a month of that, I would be positively Jones-ing to scrape some paint off an old kitchen chair or tutor a kid in algebra or plant some pumpkins.

Obviously, what I am hinting at in above post is that the means by which one could best benefit by acquisition of "wife" would be to recreate economic situation in which this role was valuable by increasing scope of home production NOT home consumption. I employed my own children and a couple of their friends when they were teenagers, so there is an ongoing joke between us that if they fail at their current pursuits, they can always come back and work for me, for food and lodging, and I will offer up some very tantalizing specifics such as "I will buy all the wool sweaters available on bag day at the Jewish Rummage Sale. Then you can unknit all of them back into balls of yarn which I will sell on Etsy, and I will set up a cot in the living room and feed you jelly toasties and tea. "
Last edited by 7Wannabe5 on Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

tommytebco
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Re: My partner earns far more than me but wants me to pay a half share

Post by tommytebco »

Geez O Pete. Half and half is the typical sharing of expenses rule. When I had room mates, how much each earned never was considered
.If you think your booty is part compensation, then we already know what you are and you are just haggling over price. Get a grip and leave or start negotiating,
Were I the person with the resources , I would already be headed for the door!!

AND what is a "BATNA" ??

7Wannabe5
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Re: My partner earns far more than me but wants me to pay a half share

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@tommytebco: Maybe you will find yourself more in agreement (or less in ire ;) )if instead of "booty offered as part compensation", the question becomes whether adherence to monogamy by either party to the agreement is required. I know of many females, myself included at one time, who end up paying more than their fair share for "mutual adherence to monogamy" clause. This is an archaic remnant of the dowry concept which only makes sense within a patriarchal monogamous-legal-contract-marriage first-born son inheritance severe-class-division socio-economic structure. It only persists because we keep reading Jane Austen and spreading the meme across the world with Disney Princess movies.

Toska2
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Re: My partner earns far more than me but wants me to pay a half share

Post by Toska2 »

Let's change perspective on what is being complained about. The inequality of incomes and not 50/50 splitting of expenses.

She should earn more.
He could earn less.
She finds someone who is an economic equal.

I didn't know dating required joining financial resources. I'd bail too*.


*Cohabitation is more acceptable with my generation imo. Thus I'm making a fine line between pooling & joining resources.

7Wannabe5
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Re: My partner earns far more than me but wants me to pay a half share

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@Toska2:

...or they could both agree on a 50/50 split at a level more in alignment with her means, and he could save even more. IOW, she could counter with something like "Nah, how about you sell the house, and we share the lot rent at the RV park." Every time I have offered a partner a deal like this, they have turned me down. Very difficult for most people to agree to lower their standard of living.

tommytebco
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Re: My partner earns far more than me but wants me to pay a half share

Post by tommytebco »

there are many "ways to get along". Unfortunately, when the echos of the wedding vows, hugs and kisses etc fade into pleasant memories, the ugly side of a long term relationship begins.

The unspoken brokering of sexual privilege for agreement to something (like a new couch) rears it's ugly head (at least in my humble exerience).

I took marriage very seriously, (read "scared shitless") waiting until I was nearly 30 to get married. as others have said, aspirants to the wife title "give it up" pretty easily to land the prey: not so after the ink has dried. I'm not talking about fidelity, which should be a given and often isn't (ref; old stale one liner, "My wife is married, I'm not"


I know there are ideal matches out there somewhere who will pipe up to tell me I "DKS". and, they may be right. I do know they are luckier or smarter than I.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm back a few minutes later and this thread seems to have hit a nerve. I am over reacting to something . sorry folks. fifty fifty is the normal split for shared expenses. Another ratio could be brokered perhaps. but not after the fact.

7Wannabe5
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Re: My partner earns far more than me but wants me to pay a half share

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@tommytebco:

Gotcha. I think the answer is "luckier" more than "smarter" because it can happen within the experience of one individual at about the same frequency as within the general population. As a very high drive female, my experience is sort of revealing of other more often hidden market realities, because on more than one occasion I have received a good deal of financial support from a monogamous male partner with a much lower sex drive than me. So, it's like I was getting paid for tolerating less sex and more sexual rejection than I prefer. They mostly just want me for cook, cuddle-buddy, conversation, companionship or cover ??? Blech.

tommytebco
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Re: My partner earns far more than me but wants me to pay a half share

Post by tommytebco »

and
What is BATNA an acronym for?? Someone make me feel stupid!!

7Wannabe5
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Re: My partner earns far more than me but wants me to pay a half share

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Best Alternative To a Negotiated Agreement

Also, legality of "in-kind swap" means it is legal to swap sex for sex. However, no contract in which one party offers "affection' is legally valid, including offer of sex swap. IOW, if you perform a sexual favor for someone with understanding that they will perform the same (or similar)sexual favor for you, the courts will not offer aid in enforcement of this contract. Modern standard marriage contract does not require performance, and you can't write an enforceable pre-nup that would include penalty on that basis. However, I think this is a moot point, since I personally know of at least 3 examples of a wife "turning back to her husband" in a culture that does promote/enforce performance. In one case, the wife was literally a 39 year old virgin, who still liked boy bands, at the time of her marriage. World is a weird place.

tommytebco
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Re: My partner earns far more than me but wants me to pay a half share

Post by tommytebco »

Thank you. I continue to live and learn.
Batna sounded racier before I knew.

Riggerjack
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Re: My partner earns far more than me but wants me to pay a half share

Post by Riggerjack »

Once again, it falls on me to be different. When I met my wife, she had transitioned from long haul trucker to local courier, making decent, but less money than I. As is my habit, I then made this worse, by talking her into taking an entry level position where I work. The pay was so bad, she got an unscheduled raise when minimum wage went higher than she was getting paid...

So, we split the bills to match take home pay. My take home at that time was about 3x hers,so I covered a 75/25% split to start. As she got raises, we just transitioned to pooling funds, and spending as normal.

This allows all the pay from OT/call outs to go to the working partner, and no oppressive costs for the lower earner. Still not totally fair, but more fair. Now, she makes what i do, to the penny, and the funds are pooled. But when money is scarce, having it more scarce for one partner is adding stress where none needs to be.

BlueNote
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Re: My partner earns far more than me but wants me to pay a half share

Post by BlueNote »

@riggerjack: That's the sort of micro socialism that keeps successful marriages purring along IMHO.

Marriage is communion (it's more like communism then capitalism) and a successful one requires deep commitment and compatibility. A lot of ERE people seem to really hate the idea of marriage because of the financial risks (which are real!). However to me that's like hating sex because you might get an STD, if carried out correctly you can be very confident in avoiding the risks associated with those choices. Get life partner selection right and it'll make ERE easier, get it wrong and it'll make it much more difficult.

A mate who is actively working against an early retirement would be like kryptonite to ERE. Is there anyone on this forum who has a spouse who is working against their ERE plans? Answer is probably no or the respondent is new to the forums and spouse hasn't had enough time to kill the dream yet. A committed and compatible mate should be able to grok and support ERE/FIRE given enough time and knowledge.

BRUTE
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Re: My partner earns far more than me but wants me to pay a half share

Post by BRUTE »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:16 am
First attention will be given to direct instructions from BRUTE with time remaining given to creative attempts to care for BRUTE better than he knows how to care for himself.
sounds like the biggest cost of this arrangement isn't financial. now brute has to live and direct the lives of two individual entities! ugh. it's hard enough to waste one life.

7Wannabe5
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Re: My partner earns far more than me but wants me to pay a half share

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

BRUTE said: sounds like the biggest cost of this arrangement isn't financial. now brute has to live and direct the lives of two individual entities! ugh. it's hard enough to waste one life.
By Jove, I think he's got it!

The male-led relationship model achieves equilibrium through the trade of leadership (not money!!!although some men are more or less inclined to evoke money as signal of power) on the part of the male for the higher value of female sexuality on the open market. Riggerjack offered an almost textbook example above. He assumed authority and gave his wife the instruction to change jobs which caused her some expense in earnings, so he accepted the responsibility of covering the difference for the time being. She may very well have fretted a bit about following this instruction, but she chose to match the risk he took with his confidence in his decision-making with an equal and opposite (complementary) risk in trust. It's this element of risk that keeps a relationship from slowly slumping together into the center of the cozy couch in an undifferentiated comfortable equilibrium of bed-death or the alternate of armed stockade construction down the center of the living room.

The classic example is the excitement generated by a daring dip in ballroom dance. The lead must exhibit robust strength and confidence, and the follow must exhibit flexible strength and trust. The partners hold equal power and are able to move freely from separate balanced stable individual pose to complementary polar balanced yet unstable pose exhibiting the ability to withstand greater tension.

Strict division of finances may not always be an example of err on the side of stockade building, but it does rather give off that smell. Since my whimsical, arrogant hypothesis about the INTJ type (to the best of my knowledge, I have never actually been in relationship or bed with one, but I have definitely dated ENTJ and INFJ) is to stereotype sexuality as "locked dominant", this would be a predictable error in judgment. Also explains why the dating thread on this forum is dead as a door nail. Mutual tower of mastery admiration society with nobody likely to let down their golden hair ;)

Anyways, back to "how do you solve a problem like BRU (ooh) UTE" (and my movie musical theme for this post.) BRUTE does not believe that he has a PURPOSE. Yet, it seems to be the case that BRUTE does have some TRUTH(s) and some GOAL(s.) So, probably he does have a PURPOSE. According to Tariq Nasheed, author of "The Art of Mackin", although it is true that "p*ssy is gold", a man who comprehends how to mack will seek to find the female who will behave in alignment with best furthering his purpose. This is NOT the same as endeavoring to find a female with the same purpose, and definitely not the same as endeavoring to find a female with the same goals, but it does mean that you should try to find a partner who holds the same ultimate truth.

Some may disagree, but it does not seem to me that ERE is a purpose. That would be like saying that Calculus is a purpose. It is a METHOD that can be applied to different purposes. OTOH, for example, "Conservation of Resources" is a purpose shared by many individuals who choose to apply the method of ERE. "It is a sin to be wasteful." is getting closer to an underlying truth, but it needs to be expressed from a perspective of love. For instance, if you deeply rue the transformation of limited supplies of petroleum into plastic objects that are easily broken and very quickly thrown into a waste bin, you are simultaneously expressing value or love for something else the energy held in that petroleum could have been used or reserved to create or preserve.

So, if the partner of the woman who wrote the letter loves her and sees something of value in her character, he needs to come out from behind his stockade and make the effort to clearly express to her what he fears will be lost through her wasteful behavior. If he has a dream of fulfilling a purpose, he needs to make himself vulnerable by revealing his hopes or plans, even if he risks having them stomped, dismissed and ridiculed. Otherwise, his fear will continue to increase her fear to the extent she is opening herself to the possibilities of relationship with him.

BRUTE
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Re: My partner earns far more than me but wants me to pay a half share

Post by BRUTE »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:38 am
The male-led relationship model achieves equilibrium through the trade of leadership (not money!!!although some men are more or less inclined to evoke money as signal of power) on the part of the male for the higher value of female sexuality on the open market.
reminds brute of the old adage that prostitutes don't get paid for the sex, they get paid to leave. the intricate social charade that is relationships seems to brute like a virus hijacking some humans that suffer from hormonal imbalances.

7Wannabe5
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Re: My partner earns far more than me but wants me to pay a half share

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Well, perhaps you should also bear in mind that...
It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife.
Ta, ta... I must be off to lather and rinse this month's box of Blue Hair Matron #5.

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