Elon Musk on whether this is a simulation

Move along, nothing to see here!
stand@desk
Posts: 398
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:40 pm

Re: Elon Musk on whether this is a simulation

Post by stand@desk »

I think part of the argument on this topic is that we as humans don't have the effective tools to come up with answers on whether this is a simulation. IBM Watson should be the best equipped? And perhaps he should be asked continuously going forward indefinitely and if he is saying no as of now, might he one day say yes?

stoneage
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:24 am

Re: Elon Musk on whether this is a simulation

Post by stoneage »

Watson would only reply with a new question

pukingRainbows
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:56 pm

Re: Elon Musk on whether this is a simulation

Post by pukingRainbows »

How is this theory useful in any way?

If it was true or not, what would change for me?

stand@desk
Posts: 398
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:40 pm

Re: Elon Musk on whether this is a simulation

Post by stand@desk »

I was just looking through some notes from a few years ago about hormones. Hormones really control our lives because they control our biology. This is what the study of endocrinology deals with. I remember seeing a video years ago about how many computer programmers have switched to biology to find ways to optimize health and wellness and live longer.

The thing is we look to the bigger picture (Gods, universe) to feel like we are being controlled by something larger but the reverse is also relevant, the smaller is something to factor in to this debate on how the microworlds shape our simulations.

Dragline
Posts: 4436
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:50 am

Re: Elon Musk on whether this is a simulation

Post by Dragline »

stand@desk wrote:I think part of the argument on this topic is that we as humans don't have the effective tools to come up with answers on whether this is a simulation. IBM Watson should be the best equipped? And perhaps he should be asked continuously going forward indefinitely and if he is saying no as of now, might he one day say yes?
Yes. Certainly, we know our perceptions are limited -- we can't even hear those damn dog whistles. The next question was whether we could just invent machines to "cover" our own limited perceptions.

This was thought to be the case until relatively recently. That thing Jacob mentioned as a novel -- the three-body problem, was a mathematical issue that to which Henri Poincare proved there was no general mathematical solution for in the late 1800s.

This, and other more philosophical observations, have led many to conclude that we simply can never know all that there is to know. Complexity theory, which evolved from the three-body problem, also addresses this.

jacob
Site Admin
Posts: 15906
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm
Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 77
Contact:

Re: Elon Musk on whether this is a simulation

Post by jacob »

@Dragline - That novel is not so much about THAT three-body problem. It refers to the Alpha Centauri star system which is likely a three-star system. In the book aliens live on a planet orbiting one of the three suns and because of the three body problem, climate changes in unpredictable ways making life harsh. Because of this, the aliens decide to invade Earth. To prepare the invasion, they send a single synthetic particle (called a sophon, a scifi concept) which also acts a supercomputer. The purpose of this particle, which moves as the speed of light and interacts with matter at will because it traverses the entire planet some 100 times per second at c-speed, is to destroy all the data collection for advanced physics projects, essentially injecting noise and confusion thus preventing human progress in science---keeping physics at a 20th century level and only allowing engineering to progress. The goal is to make the invasion easier---with exponential progress, who knows what science will look like in 2350 when the ships arrive. That was called the sophon lockdown.

The idea was/is presumably similar to the way the Allies couldn't act on all the information they found from decoding Enigma transmission and furthermore how they had to create fake missions in order to preserve the proper Gaussian noise level so the Germans wouldn't figure out that the code had been broken.

Point of my post above: You don't need computers or gods to explain quantum noise. It could also be other things.

BRUTE
Posts: 3797
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Re: Elon Musk on whether this is a simulation

Post by BRUTE »

jacob wrote:The idea was/is presumably similar to the way the Allies couldn't act on all the information they found from decoding Enigma transmission and furthermore how they had to create fake missions in order to preserve the proper Gaussian noise level so the Germans wouldn't figure out that the code had been broken.
Cryptonomicon by Stephenson details this. hilarious.

jacob
Site Admin
Posts: 15906
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm
Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 77
Contact:

Re: Elon Musk on whether this is a simulation

Post by jacob »

@brute - This is some seriously "cool stuff". For more popculture, also, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mincemeat and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bodyguard ... AFAIR, this kind of thinking (cybernetics and signal processing) was developed right around that time. Neal Stephenson's research borders on awesome. Probably because he has a background in physics ;) :ugeek:

BRUTE
Posts: 3797
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Re: Elon Musk on whether this is a simulation

Post by BRUTE »

has jacob read Mother Earth, Mother Board? it's available free online (90s wired article). amazing. Stephenson follows a transoceanic cable as it's being laid, through sewers in the Philippines to old telephone museums in the UK. many of the locations in Cryptonomicon are actually taken from this article, where he visited them, or similar locations.

enigmaT120
Posts: 1240
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:14 pm
Location: Falls City, OR

Re: Elon Musk on whether this is a simulation

Post by enigmaT120 »

BRUTE wrote:
jacob wrote:The idea was/is presumably similar to the way the Allies couldn't act on all the information they found from decoding Enigma transmission and furthermore how they had to create fake missions in order to preserve the proper Gaussian noise level so the Germans wouldn't figure out that the code had been broken.
Cryptonomicon by Stephenson details this. hilarious.
I liked that book but I don't recall that it made me laugh.

jacob
Site Admin
Posts: 15906
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm
Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 77
Contact:

Re: Elon Musk on whether this is a simulation

Post by jacob »

@brute - I have.

User avatar
jennypenny
Posts: 6851
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:20 pm

Re: Elon Musk on whether this is a simulation

Post by jennypenny »

http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultur ... simulation

I've always assumed most people had their tongue planted in their cheek when they talked about this stuff. I guess I was wrong.

jacob
Site Admin
Posts: 15906
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm
Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 77
Contact:

Re: Elon Musk on whether this is a simulation

Post by jacob »

Come on now! I wrote a piece of fan-fiction universe=simulation because Heisenberg uncertainty principle=discrete math simulation when I was 20---and probably lots of others did it too. That was in year 1995. Thankfully, my vodka-fueled works were eventually and permanently lost to software rot, because, sad, damn! This [line of thought] is not useful and it's pretty shameful or telling wrt current times that such sophomoric ideas now qualify as TED talks or CEO wisdom. Pfffft!

Dragline
Posts: 4436
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:50 am

Re: Elon Musk on whether this is a simulation

Post by Dragline »

I communed with the Master Simulator and located your old works. But I won't reveal them if you send a healthy amount of Itunes gift card $$ and bitcoin to special accounts. I'll have my agent call you from an undisclosed location in Central Asia. :lol:

User avatar
Ego
Posts: 6357
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Elon Musk on whether this is a simulation

Post by Ego »

jacob wrote:Thankfully, my vodka-fueled works were eventually and permanently lost to software rot, because, sad, damn!
Jacobukowski

Vodka!? I would have imagined this as your drink of choice.

BRUTE
Posts: 3797
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Re: Elon Musk on whether this is a simulation

Post by BRUTE »

it's funny because jacob likes lentils

vezkor
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:51 am

Re: Elon Musk on whether this is a simulation

Post by vezkor »

At this point, I'm sure poor @jacob regrets ever mentioning lentils to our community full of smartasses. :D

enigmaT120
Posts: 1240
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:14 pm
Location: Falls City, OR

Re: Elon Musk on whether this is a simulation

Post by enigmaT120 »

It even made it into Scientific American:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... mulation1/

I swear they are becoming more like Popular Science sometimes. I've subscribed since I finished college in 1987.

User avatar
C40
Posts: 2748
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Elon Musk on whether this is a simulation

Post by C40 »

Vodka generally has the best Alcohol/$ ratio.

chenda
Posts: 3289
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:17 pm
Location: Nether Wallop

Re: Elon Musk on whether this is a simulation

Post by chenda »

C40 wrote:Vodka generally has the best Alcohol/$ ratio.
Definitely, and easy to loose track of consumption.

@Jacob - Time for a literary revival perhaps ? ;)

Post Reply