


Well, yes, I do! If I eyeball your graphs currently, you spend about $750/month. I spend less than $500/month. I've been in that range for many (15+) years ($5-7k/year) in various situations (single, married) (room, apartment, house, RV) (dog, fish, none of the above) in various countries (Denmark, Switzerland, US). It's all possible.Viktor K wrote:With my degree, ERE even in 6 years seems unattainable, even while I still maintain ridiculous levels of personal spending. Does Jacob even spend this little?
Could also be more yellow, depending on which fence you look at. My ERE-progress is still highly preferable to those that aren't on the path.
I can feel this. Even now feels better than July. A lot of that cash is about to go away due to a move to China.Scott 2 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:06 amYep, it's not even close to fair. The system is broken.
I can tell you, my greatest improvement in quality of life came with 1-2 years of living expenses saved. That's it. Enough that I didn't owe anyone anything, and I had the freedom to tell any employer to piss off if I wanted.
A lot of good points here Jason. Right now the capital isn't what I would consider "there" for acquiring rentals, but the GF and I have talked about it post-return to USA. Amen to regrets though. It is better to live in the present, though it is a rule I sometimes break.Jason wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:34 amWhat ERE and MMM teach you is that you should worry about yourself, so don't waste your time about others. They are not thinking about you.
I'm not a move to another country type of guy. Also, I have too much money and too many vices at this point so I'll end up dead within the first week.
Now I understand you are in Vegas where from watching The Big Short, strippers were buying houses with their lap dance money, but this was my thought on you.
You are motivated, young, healthy, frugal and not an idiot. You also seem to be nice and fair person. What you seem to lack is job opportunity which is common. IMHO - You seem to fit the profile of a house guy i.e. a guy who builds his wealth through rental income.
Maybe focus on that goal, when you despair or doubt.
Regret can become consuming. Also, you will regret all this time you are currently wasting on regret when you look back upon this time in your life.
Nice to hear from a fellow former grocery store employee. If this expatriate life doesn't go well, I may just commit to that 9-5 corporate climb. For me, it is definitely my plan B. My first corporate job was one of the least fulfilling times in my life. I just felt so much obsession with profit sourced push to perform that I could not reconcile with my just need groceries, a roof and companionship lifestyle that I was left drained and listless, from when I got to work until I went to bed. I quit that job the morning before I was likely to be fired for attendance issues.trailblazer wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:47 amI graduated with a degree in history and worked in a grocery store all through college, so I can relate to your dilemma.
I'm approaching my late 30's, and ERE is finally in sight, but only after many years of additional education and student loan debt, and slogging away in the corporate world. More than once I've been envious of the 21 year old right out of college who did everything just right, usually through the guidance of parents. One guy I work with is 28 and well past 100K, with tons of momentum for future earning and opportunities.
As others have noted, you are very under employed. Frugal living isn't your issue . . . buy the alcohol.
Just from skimming your journal, you have communication/writing skills (don't underestimate how key that is) plus analytic and cross-cultural ability. Plus you are an ENTJ! You will add value to an employer.
I think you should experiment with some sort of corporate job, even if it's an entry level assistant type job. Your skills will quickly be put to use. You might need to relocate, and it will be a slog even in the best of settings. But consider putting yourself into that environment and see what happens.
Also I'm intrigued by your comment about "living like a king" in China. Would be great to have more detail on what that might look like as some of us might want to copy.
My reference to you was more a hyperbole than a real slight to what you've accomplished of course. I respect and admire what you've accomplished. How many would be posting here, achieving what they are without your trailblazing. I do think time and energy play a factor into one's "level" of ERE. Once ERE'd, it can be easier to ERE better. More time for hobby income makes more hobby income makes more time for more hobby income. I should be sub $500/month come mid-April and onward - then there's the challenge of raising income, but I've some ideas now that I didn't have in February.jacob wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:09 pmWell, yes, I do! If I eyeball your graphs currently, you spend about $750/month. I spend less than $500/month. I've been in that range for many (15+) years ($5-7k/year) in various situations (single, married) (room, apartment, house, RV) (dog, fish, none of the above) in various countries (Denmark, Switzerland, US). It's all possible.Viktor K wrote:With my degree, ERE even in 6 years seems unattainable, even while I still maintain ridiculous levels of personal spending. Does Jacob even spend this little?
When I was in grad school (Age 24-28), I made about $25000/year, like you. I had just about 4 different recurring expenses. I spent <$50/year on everything else.Currency conversion by memory. Might be off by 10%, but you get the range ...
- Rent at 355CHF (about $275) for an 8x18ft room (thereabouts) sharing kitchen and facilities with 18 other students ten minutes away from the university.
- Health insurance (about $90)
- Food (about $120) which was very simple. (And people still tease me about that one.) (If this looks high, it's because food in Switzerland is $$$$)
- Train tickets to see GF (about $60/month on average) [that was my single discretionary expense]
That's it. When I bought clothes, it was thrift stores. No TV. No phone. Books from library. And so on. Those were the early years. Those weren't easy years either, but after 4 years, I had almost $100k. In the beginning, due to the lack of frugal skills, the lack of assets, and the lack of systems-thinking, the most effective thing is simply to do without. This is much harder if you've been used to spending more and have to cut back than if you never had any money-sucking habits in the first place. In my case, I lived at this level even when I was an undergrad, so my main challenge was to simply direct money I had previously wasted on electronics towards savings.---That was tough [not doing] in the beginning, but I got over it experiencing exactly the same journey as the people who do those "buy nothing year" books. However, at that point I didn't have and never had any car, bus ticket (when I could just walk or bike), alcohol, pet, restaurant, etc. habits. What you never had, you never miss.
I've maintained the same spending level subsequently but I've become a lot better at getting mileage out of my spending by using more systems-theory (web of goals) and learning various ways to "get something from nothing". Now we have car, alcohol (DIY), pet, and the skill to cook "better"(*) than restaurants at home.
(*) Exactly to personal taste.
It's obviously much easier for anyone making $75k/year to live on $25k/year than it is for someone making $24k to live on $8k ... but I became FI on what I think qualifies as hard-mode. It doesn't feel hard at all today but that's because of all the skills and experience I've built up over the past 15 years. One thing that did make it easier was that I had a single source of income (however, I worked many more hours) and I didn't have any debt, so I didn't start behind the starting-line so to speak. My first job out of grad school at age 28 paid $40k/year.
The mind has been ticking, as it does, but a good recommendation. I have some ideas coming up, if/when they fail, more will come. One can be frustrated of course. I agree to no more education, though. If I return to academia, it will be for pleasure, not for financial/professional advancement. I've tried sales before. I bombed. A passionate Viktor K comes off as bossy and holier-than-though unfortunately. Maybe with practice...but I'm going to try other things first.George the original one wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:21 pmHonestly, you can make more money than you currently do without bothering with more education. Sales is the obvious career, but you could also work on an oil rig. Do a little research and get out there!
First, a good read, and something I've thought about and know intrinsically from the financial adviser gig (post-grad failed sales career). Many of the pitfalls/archetypes expressed in that post can apply to me, at least to some extent. But that can be a good thing - my archetypes are many, alluding to potential adequate level of strategy diversification. One good thing - teaching I've found, with smaller class sizes and permanent positions, is highly rewarding. Moreso than coaching. If work credits are necessary, this is an obvious route for me. It does come with a cost consistent with many brick-and-mortar positions: stuck. Stuck in a city, stuck in one apartment, stuck Monday to Friday... Online teaching is of course more flexible, but less fulfilling and thus less attractive. I'm one who quickly falls apart when unfulfilled, and I find fulfillment elusive at best.Fish wrote: ↑Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:48 amMaybe semi-retirement would be a meaningful intermediate goal on your way to conventional FIRE? Though your NW is negative, your expenses are low and you have several proven streams of income. Speaking as a golden-handcuffed specialist whose choices are 40 hours or zero, I envy the flexibility and variety you have wrt work. You don't have any problems with appreciating this aspect of your lifestyle, but if you must trade this freedom and tie yourself down to a career, make sure you're getting something really good in exchange.
While income is still your biggest area for improvement, housing is another area with high return on effort. I'd recommend looking into housesitting (@Did, @theanimal) or being a live-in property manager (@Ego). You don't have anything holding you down, so go wherever the heart desires. With housing and utilities taken care of, your main expenses would be food and the minimum payment on your student loans. Your fixed costs should be covered by ~10 hours/week of work. Scale your income up/down depending on how much free time you desire. Work a little extra whenever you want something that's not in the baseline plan, like plane tickets, etc. I might be missing something but you may be closer to an ERE lifestyle than you think.
I don't mean to advocate financial recklessness. It would still be prudent to set aside some savings as an emergency fund. Accumulate the work credits needed to qualify for SS. Have some sort of backup plan in case of serious illness or disability. See: viewtopic.php?p=120055#p120055 What I meant is that in a flow sense, you don't really need to work a lot since your needs are low. Take advantage of this when figuring out a lifestyle that works for you. But due to the negative NW, you are vulnerable and that needs to be accounted for in the plan.