How are you different?

[BRUTE]

STR:15
INT:16
WIS:14
DEX:14
CON:10
CHR:10

huh. strength and int. brute can't really think of a class for that, except maybe a mix between fighter and wizard?

ps: brute is pretty sure nobody can overhead press 480lbs. that's an impressive deadlift.
according to wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overhead_press), the highest men's weight class at elite level do 284lbs.

edit: STR is 15, not 17. brute was using a jerk instead of military press.

[daylen]

STR: 13
INT: 17
WIS: 12
DEX: 13
CON: 14
CHR: 12

Well rounded scores.

@enigmaT120 - Yeah I can do one-armed pull-ups. Or at least I used to---been a few years since I had good access to a pull up station, so I'm not sure I can do them now. However, if you can do 10 regular ones, one-armed isn't that hard. Start building up by holding your pulling arm by the wrist with the other hand. Eventually let go

I can do over 20 regular pull-ups, but I can not do a single one-handed pull-up without holding my forearm. I can only get my elbow to about a 90 degree angle. How can that be?

[7Wannabe5]

STR:7
INT:17
WIS:11
DEX:11
CON:9
CHR:17

Yup, I pretty much get by on brains and charm. ENTP-aka the Sexy Nerd. Of course, these powers can sometimes cancel each other out. For instance, people often don't find it charming when you inform them that they are stupid, and people sometimes do not find you intelligent when you behave in the manner most likely to convince somebody they ought to exhibit feats of strength on your behalf. Or as one gentleman companion of mine once said "The words, they just kept on coming, but I focused on the lips."

[daylen]

Of course, these powers can sometimes cancel each other out. For instance, people often don't find it charming when you inform them that they are stupid, and people sometimes do not find you intelligent when you behave in the manner most likely to convince somebody they ought to exhibit feats of strength on your behalf.

Interesting dilemma. Never crossed my mind.

[Riggerjack]

STR: 15
INT: 17
WIS: 15
DEX: 11
CON: 12
CHA: 14

I think my score was thrown by my size in places. For instance, extra credit in dexterity for being able to move thru a crowd, when I think that is more my size and ability to project intent. likewise, the cha score seems high. The last 2 questions are with a point apiece.I'm not a pretty man, nor charming, but women respond when I put the effort into projecting, and apparently, some boys like "bears", and think I should fit that group. Again, I think this is as much size as cha. I would rate my cha lower.

The key thing for me is the scores are average to above average, across the board. This is because it is easier to improve an area of weakness than an area of strength. Our industrial age education system emphasises specialization, and by instinct, I tend to want to follow that path. However, it is in eliminating weakness and limits that confidence and contentment lie. My early 30's were spent pushing hard in this area.

As for what is unique about me. When I was younger, I would have said intelligence, but experience has shown me that intelligence is roughly equal, excluding damage. Now, I would say it is the depth and breadth of my experience, and the confidence I have gained from it. I now believe that rather than being smarter than the average bear, my mind out simply not aligned as most other humans are. My mind is aligned along an axis that tests well, and it should be no surprise, as my personality type would be designing the tests...

My wife and friends think I am an unshakable optimist, but that's not true. I do absolutely believe that the future for me and mine will be better than the past, but that comes from a 25 year history of improvement, in good times and bad. Prepare for catastrophe, leave room for error, but I expect things to go well-excellent.

Speaking of my wife, I think it would be my marriage that takes me from rare to unique. My marriage is so good I can't describe it without sounding like a braggart, and a little bit creepy. Let's leave it at we live, work and commute together, and still she loves me! Having her for a partner has really helped me to take some bigger risks, bigger adventures, and enjoy a level of contentment I have never before known.

Like others here, I used to self identify by the things I do differently. I think this is from our education, being grouped together with so many, such similar people, for so long. When you get used to a more varied society, differentiation no longer has any importance, as you already are different. Until this happens, I was giving too much power to others, by using my difference to define me. Until I defined myself, all I had were the ways I was different. Knowing who I am, means I define myself by what I do, rather than what I don't. Mind you, I still find more than 99% of strangers are best left as strangers, but the small percentage of people worth knowing are easier to find, when I am looking for them.

[enigmaT120]

From the link Jacob posted above: "ISTJ- They will find a set of duties to be fulfilled in their new post-apocalyptic world. If they survive the first wave of attacks that is."

That kind of sucks.... But I'm sure there would be plenty to do.

Brute: yeah, fighter/wizard combos were pretty common if you have the stats. 17 Strength Good grief, how many one-armed pull ups can you do ? Though I bet body weight plays a big role in that exercise.

What are you guys doing to people to get such low charisma scores? I go out of my way to try to be pleasant to people, part of my religion. I liked the description for a score of 5 from above: "Has trouble thinking of others as people". A while back for work I had to watch a boring training video on sensitivity for GLBT and something else, and I was wondering how a male could self identify as female. My problem understanding that is that I don't self-identify as male or female (I am male, as a biologist it's pretty easy for me to determine that.), and upon further reflection don't really identify as human.

[jacob]

What are you guys doing to people to get such low charisma scores? I go out of my way to try to be pleasant to people, part of my religion.

I think you answered your own question. I think for most of us it's part of "the standard INTJ charm" which is characterized by its almost total lack of existence. Charm is not something that comes naturally. To compound the effect, most of us tend to have interests that aren't common and vice versa. Being socially pleasant thus requires a lot more effort than we're willing to expend. See http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html ... the parts about there being a learning curve for popularity also applies to charm/charisma as far as the deliberate consideration as to whether it's worthwhile to acquire the knowledge to be pleasant company to most people.

I've noted people here and there on the forums talking about how they've developed a passing knowledge about IPA beers or some other common culture interest, ... like "how are the Blackhawks doing?", "what's Kanye West up to today?" ... in order to be socially conversant. However, the required knowledge is not trivial to acquire and it requires maintenance.

I've made a few concentrated attempts in my lifetime to acquire such knowledge as a social tool but ultimately found it unsatisfying in the same way that one might wonder why one bothered learning the ins and outs of superman or batman stories in order to get insights from 5th graders. In particular, it's not so much "not thinking of others as people" but more thinking of [most] others as not really worth having a conversation with. That sounds snobbish but once they understand why they'd be bored to tears if all everybody else was talking about was applied ecology or financial strategy, they might understand why I space out when all they talk about is their favourite place to eat out and how hard is it to "pay the bills".

Whereas, in the company of fellow ERErs or similar caliber thinkers, I posit that my CHA score instantly jumps from 7 to somewhere between 11 and 14. Not a remarkably high score but not low either. I think that goes to show the natural boost from simply being on the same page as most people. Most people therefore have it pretty easy by construction.

[BRUTE]

Brute: yeah, fighter/wizard combos were pretty common if you have the stats. 17 Strength Good grief, how many one-armed pull ups can you do ? Though I bet body weight plays a big role in that exercise.

not a single one, the question in the tests asks for 10 singles for each arm. brute has never been able to do that. which is why he's slightly surprised to have more STR than jacob, who apparently can do single arm pull-ups.

brute has overhead-pressed over 240lbs, that might have done it. in retrospect, brute isn't sure if that was military/strict press or jerk, so it might actually be lower.

edit: brute has corrected his original post to STR 15, going by the 2/3 of bench press measure.

What are you guys doing to people to get such low charisma scores? I go out of my way to try to be pleasant to people, part of my religion.

atheism and assburgers

[daylen]

Perhaps there is a general trend of I-TJ's having a high wisdom-charm spread?

As an INTP, my charm and wisdom were even. I wonder what personalities would likely have a wisdom-charm spread in the opposing direction? E-FP?

[jennypenny]

What are you guys doing to people to get such low charisma scores?

Here's an example -- I was at a party on Sunday, and there was a long discussion about something that had happened to someone ... they couldn't believe it, what do you think they'll do, etc. When I asked what I thought was an innocuous question about who this person was, it was pointed out to me that they were talking about a character from a TV show. I don't watch TV and had no idea what they were talking about. Later, I ended up in a conversation about what books everyone was reading. I thought cool, here's a conversation I know something about. When it was my turn to say the best book I read recently, I (stupidly!) said "Empire of Things". Everyone immediately googled it on their phones and then hammered me with comments like I must have no life if I have the time to read long, boring books like that.

For people with low 'C', it's a dangerous business, going out your door.

[cmonkey]

+ 1 to what jacob said.

Most people just make me bored to tears and so there is just general apathy in that regard. If the interaction goes on for too long, it turns into irritation. I have gotten good at ending it before I get to that stage though.

I also use a line along the lines of "I only have so much mental space/energy and I try to keep that optimized" when DW might talk of something doesn't interest me and I may space out, or something I don't remember off hand and it irritates her that I don't remember. The same goes for this topic.

[7Wannabe5]

I think there are many different ways to get a high charm score. I was trying to remember my last social interaction with a stranger. Yesterday afternoon, the Peacemaker (who is also an E-P) and I went for a bike ride, and wanted to get out of the rain for a minute. So, we ducked into this very posh hotel/bar restaurant that wasn't quite open for the evening. We were able to order some coffee, and we were kind of snuggled together, damp and chatting in a cushy seating area. One of the young waitresses walked by and said "Can I come cuddle with you guys?", and we both smiled and said "Sure."

There are very few people I can talk to about books. There are many people I can talk to about growing tomatoes, french-braiding hair, kids that won't move out of the house, whether they caught any fish that morning, bad boyfriends, peach preserves, what sort of punk would set the mini-free library on fire, or the surprisingly lovely vase of flowers in the women's restroom. There are very few people I encounter with whom I have no level of mutual interest, or share no possibility of beneficial trade. If you are sitting centered somewhere in your eco-system, observing the wind, currants, squirrels or train tracks, paper litter, brick pile and a human being enters your field, the complexity of the system and the resources available to you just went up immensely. In fact, it is when you focus on basic needs and being self-sufficient yet open, that you will best realize how much value is found in interactions with other human beings.

[Ego]

STR:13
INT:13
WIS:15
DEX:13
CON:13
CHR:16

Average all around. Go figure.

Ten one handed pullups..... really!? Today I tried and got zero.

[enigmaT120]

Charm didn't come naturally to me, either. I'm surprised I survived childhood and especially my teen years. At least nobody expects me to talk about sports -- unless it's something I do.

I don't go to parties. I would be curious about an ERE meet up. I didn't think ISTJ would be that different from INTJ.

When I put up with people willingly, they are people I seek out because they know more than I do about something I want to know more about: gearhead wrenching (BMW and Triumph motorcycles, old Chevy pickups) or forestry, for the most part. But I try to be nice to everybody. Yeah some people will start talking and will be boring if I can't get away gracefully, but I've read the Old Testament about a dozen times. My tolerance for boredom is very high.

[GandK]

I would define Charisma in this context as Signaling Intelligence. Nonverbal communication of all kinds... everything from grooming skill to making the appropriate amount of eye contact to smiling by default to making sure you smell nice to wearing the right clothes whenever you leave your house. Situation-appropriate manners, too.

The funny thing to me in this conversation is that some of you are scrounging around for plebeian things to be able to discuss with others to raise your Charisma, when IMO Charisma is what does or does not happen when you're not talking.

Edited to add: I suppose if one was trying to signal "go away" and people did indeed go away, then one's signaling behavior was successful. But Charisma, like Intelligence, is relative and it's tied to public opinion. And that sort of signaling would hardly keep one on the island. Well, other than @jacob, who apparently has social value as an oddball repellent.

[7Wannabe5]

True. Somebody once wrote "Charm is the art of getting the answer you want without even having to ask the question."

[jacob]

@GandK - At the highest levels charisma probably translates into a complex game of signal intelligence, but that's not how it works at the lower or average levels. Kinda how wisdom at the average levels is more about knowing not to eat the yellow snow whereas at the highest levels it's a form of consilient intuition that borders on prescience---just with knowledge [of the world] instead of people. These are differences in kind, not in degree.

[jennypenny]

True. Somebody once wrote "Charm is the art of getting the answer you want without even having to ask the question."

Well if that's the definition, I'm loaded with charm. I can usually get people to do whatever I want without much fuss ... as soon as I cosh them on the head, drag them home, and tie them to the bedposts.

re: signaling
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, it's not a question of (mis)interpreting the signals. The problem is not even seeing the signals in the first place, and worse, not seeing the negative ones until the damage is done. Frequently, it's also a question of unchecked bluntness on my part.

[cmonkey]

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, it's not a question of (mis)interpreting the signals. The problem is not even seeing the signals in the first place, and worse, not seeing the negative ones until the damage is done. Frequently, it's also a question of unchecked bluntness on my part.

Or not even knowing the signals exist. I have gotten 'the look' from DW from time to time regarding bluntness. I used to keep my mouth shut before I met her, but she 'brought it out of me'.

[7Wannabe5]

jennypenny said: Well if that's the definition, I'm loaded with charm. I can usually get people to do whatever I want without much fuss ... as soon as I cosh them on the head, drag them home, and tie them to the bedposts.

lol- Although some of us do find that sort of behavior intriguing, it doesn't quite meet the definition of charm. The Cowboy listens to meditation tapes that have to do with relationship with self, relationship with known others, and relationship with the human field. Since I have often found myself in the role of cooling pool of water in relationship with a glowing red nuclear reactor, it is my considered opinion that those who are of the temperament, or who develop the habit, of looking for trouble in the human field, are also those most likely to find it. For instance, it never occurs to me that other people are driving their cars in an inefficient, unskilled manner with the set intention to impede my progress and cause me frustration, but some people instantly jump to that sort of conclusion. Since you are quite introverted, you are probably just thinking about coshing somebody over the head. Irascible extroverts, especially if you give them a drink or three, will sometimes actually attempt to do it.

Another thing to bear in mind if you are in relationship with somebody who is more charming or socially labile than you, is that it can be as much of a long-term strain to always have to do the social "lifting" in a relationship as to always have to be the one who uses strength to chop the wood. I have literally been paid by asocial or anti-social or socially-aggressive types to partner with them during various financially important social interactions such as tenant disputes. This sort of thing is not easy work, and it is demanding of internal resources in the same way that calming a colicky baby is demanding, so those who can do it and are called upon to do it, will want to be paid. Therefore, it is in alignment with frugal self-interest to develop some of these skills for yourself.