Too Old To Retire "Young"

Where are you and where are you going?
EdithKeeler
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Re: Too Old To Retire "Young"

Post by EdithKeeler »

Pondering careerism this weekend. Just reread Jacob's old blog entries on the subject. http://earlyretirementextreme.com/are-y ... erism.html and http://earlyretirementextreme.com/a-cur ... erism.html

I wrote elsewhere about an award I was up for at work--"the best of--" my job. viewtopic.php?f=24&t=7824&p=119766#p119766 It's a VERY big deal where I work and well... I won. Got a very substantial bonus check, will go on a couple of sweet trips over the next couple of years, a fancy jacket, a trophy, new business cards, a new name plate for my jail cell--I mean cubicle.... It was actually very nice. There was a big banquet, a small celebration when I got home, and then...

...the call I was sort of afraid of / expecting, offering me a move and a promotion to a bigger local office, etc.

I had thought about this before "the win" happened--some planets aligned at just the right time and someone left, freeing up the opening, and I still own my house there, and my tenant's lease is up in August. Seriously, I could just slide right back in with minimal effort.

BUT. I still have my mom and her health problems to deal with--they're not getting any better. My brother has some issues. I sat down and talked with them on Friday, and I realized that I Just. Can't. Do. It. I thought I could convince my mom to move back with me, but she put the brakes on that, and my brother has a bothersome job history, but is now currently in a job that he likes, can do, and they like him there--very important for him.

I could still move. I'm 51 years old, I can make my own choices. But I know I'd worry about them, my mom especially, constantly. I'd worry every time I came to visit it would be the last time I saw her. I'd worry about what crazy crap my brother was up to, and I'd get a million calls from my mom about the weird stuff that he was doing. I know all this would happen, because it happened 4 years ago when I lived away.

I get bored with it, but I'm good at my current job, and I won't lie, it was fun getting the recognition for my good work (and did I mention the big honking check??). It was REALLY nice to get that call, because it sort of vindicates/undoes all the crap that happened 4 years ago to make me leave (office politics--all the old players are gone, and there's a kinder, gentler, new regime).

But I'm not going. Maybe something may come along that I can do differently that I can do from here that won't require a move. But if not, I'll continue as I am. (I could walk away from work tomorrow--I have enough socked away to live a very lean early retirement... but it's leaner than I'd like, and I'd end up being my mom's caregiver a lot more than I am, and I'm simply NOT READY for that). In my current role I have the luxury of a pretty good boss who likes me, a reasonable work load, though not challenging, OK office mates, the ability to work from home sometimes, etc. More than that, I have a decent amount of free time to pursue non-work-related things--lately I've taken up watercolor painting. I suck, but it's fun. I'm thinking about signing up for guitar lessons.

So... I'll continue to float along.

But I'll admit, that "careerism" feels very built in to me. I thought I was over it, but this little episode has made me realize that I'm not. I'm not saying I'm defined by my job... but I will say that I have spent the better part of my life pursuing career ideals: the next bigger better job, the bigger paycheck, thinking a little bit about what I'd do in a corner office (never got there though), and like any habit, it's hard to break. I also blame coming of age in the 80's, the decade of the Yuppie. I still think my natural inclination is more Hippie than Yuppie, but I think I became a careerist because that's what We're Supposed To Do. I know when I finally do quit, I'm going to struggle with that question "What do you do?" and feel a vague sense of embarassment for a while, I suspect, when I say "I'm a writer," or "I'm retired," or "I'm a beachcomber" or "I'm a shitty watercolor painter and an even worse guitarist," but I also think I'll get over it. I hope I do, anyway.

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Ego
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Re: Too Old To Retire "Young"

Post by Ego »

Hey, that's great. Congratulations!

IlliniDave
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Re: Too Old To Retire "Young"

Post by IlliniDave »

I certainly can sympathize with the difficulty when it comes to the pull of family "duty". In my case it is one of the main drivers in my quest to cut my professional career short, being away from family now and wanting to get back closer (for at least part of the year). I don't think I ever felt the career drive quite as deeply (e.g., always avoided a path towards the corner office) but have struggled with the implicit rule/expectation of working hard and having some degree of "success", including financially.

Congrats too on the award/recognition at work. Thursday I found out without warning that I was being moved into a somewhat larger office. It gave me an opportunity to unpack my little collection of work-related souvenirs. In that process I'd noticed it has been about 6 years since I received any sort of recognition, and 8 years since receiving any that was meaningful. I had a slightly melancholy moment as it was a reminder that from a career perspective I'm over the hill and most of the way down the far side.

Dragline
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Re: Too Old To Retire "Young"

Post by Dragline »

+1 on the award.

Also +1 on the realization that the "more career" path would probably only lead to regret. Maybe there is such a thing as work/life balance . . .

But I am wondering if there are parts of the proposed promotion you could take on (i.e., the ones you might like) without having to move. Maybe there is a counter-proposal to be made. It could easily be sold given your family situation.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Too Old To Retire "Young"

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Congratulations! I was trying to remember what our similar "coming of age" influences might have been since we are both 51 (seems like there are a lot of too-old-to-retire-young or too-young-to-retire-old 51 year old GenXers on this forum-lol) The image that immediately came to mind was the "centerfold" of a typical 1981 edition of Glamour magazine in which the model is balancing herself on the counter top of her stylish kitchen as she puts on the second high heel pump which completes her cute career suit ensemble. On the other side of the photo, her handsome partner is picking up an adorable infant and pouring some juice. Even though I traded in my Glamour subscription for Harper's by 1983, and in spite of my lifelong frugal-hippie-chick tendencies, I think that sort of centerfold remained as my semi-conscious main mission message until sometime in my early 30s. This is what we would have been watching around age 15.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q0P94wyBYk

How freaking impossible was that goal? Just the other day, I had to pass a quiz based on the information on my birth certificate in order to maintain my ability to re-enter the United States. I noticed that in 1965 there were spaces for my father's Usual Occupation and Current Employer, but no spaces for this information about my mother, even though she was only on maternity leave from her "career" as a junior high English teacher. I think it is proving a bit difficult for the women of our generation to spread our legs and balance across the whole range of pre-feminism to post-feminism of the last 50 years. How do we give up the privilege or power of careerism that has only been granted to us within our lifetime?

EdithKeeler
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Re: Too Old To Retire "Young"

Post by EdithKeeler »

The image that immediately came to mind was the "centerfold" of a typical 1981 edition of Glamour magazine in which the model is balancing herself on the counter top of her stylish kitchen as she puts on the second high heel pump which completes her cute career suit ensemble. On the other side of the photo, her handsome partner is picking up an adorable infant and pouring some juice. Even though I traded in my Glamour subscription for Harper's by 1983, and in spite of my lifelong frugal-hippie-chick tendencies, I think that sort of centerfold remained as my semi-conscious main mission message until sometime in my early 30s. This is what we would have been watching around age 15.
That's interesting. I don't recall that one, but for me it's 2 iconic movies, "Working Girl" (1988) and "Baby Boom." (1987). And of course "Wall Street," (1987), but no significant women characters in that, that I can recall. But the 2 scenes at end of "Working Girl," one where Melanie Griffith and Harrison Ford are frantically eating toast over the sink just before rushing off to their office jobs... and then when Melanie has finally "made it" to her private office, and the scene pans out to show that's it's one of a thousand similar offices... I still wonder if it was meant to be the depressing message that I now see.

And "Baby Boom," where yes, by golly, you CAN "have it all," despite after you pretty much hit rock bottom, you can get it all back and then some before the baby has even aged a month. (I actually love that movie because it's hilarious, but I find the overall message a little dark now).

I don't recall any magazines, particularly, other than Brooke Shields and her Calvin Kleins... I remember at 15 being very concerned with how big my hair was, how good I looked in my jeans (and Candies shoes...) and getting into a good college. For me all the careerism hit in college--I was a Democrat English major surrounded by Republican Business Majors, and though I strove to be different, a lot of it rubbed off on me, I suppose.

Oh, on TV there was "The Cosby Show," featuring a successful doctor and his equally successful lawyer wife (who despite having 5 kids, never apparently cooked or did housework, or if she did, somehow Managed To Do It All. Hmmm. What else? "Cagney and Lacey" was probably a big influence--career women who were cops, though didn't one end up an alcoholic on the show and in real life? Maybe I'm misremembering... Oh, and "LA Law," with its female lawyers. "Murphy Brown" came a little later, I guess.

EdithKeeler
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Re: Too Old To Retire "Young"

Post by EdithKeeler »

+1 on the award.

Also +1 on the realization that the "more career" path would probably only lead to regret. Maybe there is such a thing as work/life balance . . .

But I am wondering if there are parts of the proposed promotion you could take on (i.e., the ones you might like) without having to move. Maybe there is a counter-proposal to be made. It could easily be sold given your family situation.
Thank you. And yeah, I may make a counter proposal or ask about other options, but I suspect it will be shot down. The situation is such that they really need a presence in that office, for a number of reasons, and even if I could somehow do it from here, travel back and forth would be really hard for both the company (expensive plane fare, etc.) and me (dog boarding, having someone look in on my mom, etc.) It's hard to see how to make that work... but maybe there's something I haven't thought of.

EdithKeeler
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Re: Too Old To Retire "Young"

Post by EdithKeeler »

but have struggled with the implicit rule/expectation of working hard and having some degree of "success", including financially.
It's silly, but when I won that award, my first thought was that I wished my dad was still alive so I could tell him about it. I suspect a psychiatrist could have a field day analyzing me--I ended up in the same field as my dad--actually my mom, too, though she was never career motivated--and I'm sure there's an element of "make dad proud of me..." to some of the decisions I've made over the years.

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jennypenny
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Re: Too Old To Retire "Young"

Post by jennypenny »

That Enjoli commercial is the one I always think of when I think back to the ridiculous images of empowered women from the late '70s and early '80s. Most women our age (I'm 50) were told by the women who came before us that we should be grateful we had a choice, but in reality we weren't given a choice. We were told to do both, and if we opted out of either role, we were criticized.

It's hard to ignore that conditioned response to take whatever's offered, but It's the offer that should make you proud EK, not whether you accept it. And remember that saying no--especially for women our age--is much harder than saying yes. Turning it down shows strength, not weakness.

EdithKeeler
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Re: Too Old To Retire "Young"

Post by EdithKeeler »

That Enjoli commercial is the one I always think of when I think back to the ridiculous images of empowered women from the late '70s and early '80s. Most women our age (I'm 50) were told by the women who came before us that we should be grateful we had a choice, but in reality we weren't given a choice. We were told to do both, and if we opted out of either role, we were criticized.
AH! That commercial!! I remembered the song, but not the product.

I completely agree that women of our generation really didn't have much of a choice. I'm not REALLY sure that younger women coming after have too much of a choice, either. I think of the constant "mommy wars," etc. Why are we even still discussing breastfeeding? But... whatever. Sometimes I'm kind of glad to be old(er).
It's hard to ignore that conditioned response to take whatever's offered, but It's the offer that should make you proud EK, not whether you accept it. And remember that saying no--especially for women our age--is much harder than saying yes. Turning it down shows strength, not weakness.
Thank you for that. Really. And you're right. It's just easy to forget.

EdithKeeler
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Re: Too Old To Retire "Young"

Post by EdithKeeler »

Thank you. And yeah, I may make a counter proposal or ask about other options, but I suspect it will be shot down. The situation is such that they really need a presence in that office, for a number of reasons, and even if I could somehow do it from here, travel back and forth would be really hard for both the company (expensive plane fare, etc.) and me (dog boarding, having someone look in on my mom, etc.) It's hard to see how to make that work... but maybe there's something I haven't thought of.
Yeah, so... that happened. Thought about it, talked to family, told the manager I couldn't move right now, but I might consider taking it if I could work from here. As noted above, I didn't expect them to consider it, but... got the call today that they ARE willing to consider it and they'd "really like me to apply for the job." (Being corporate America, they can't just offer it to me, I have to jump through some hoops, and I could be wrong, but I think the job is mine to lose, anyway, if I pick my nose during the interview, perhaps...). So... balancing my inherent slacker self with my careerist self... I'll probably go for it. It's ALMOST a win/win--get the title, probably a bit more money, recognition (feeding my ego is almost a full time job), get a more challenging opportunity, get a little travel (to be balanced by the dog boarding fees... though maybe frequent flyer miles will make part of it worth it anyway...)

All assuming I get the job, since I'm only applying for it.

Careerism wins maybe? This time? We'll see.

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jennypenny
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Re: Too Old To Retire "Young"

Post by jennypenny »

Wow, that's great. I hope it works out the way you want.

EdithKeeler
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The Zen of Cooking

Post by EdithKeeler »

I'm on a cooking rampage today: vegetable soup for dinner (yeah, I know it's summer, but I love it), with enough for the freezer. Beef tips in wine for my mom's fridge for later this week, plus a meal for me. London broil marinating for the grill tomorrow. A batch of cranberry scones, and two batches of biscotti, because I had some stuff in the pantry to use up.

There is something calming and concrete about cooking. Chop the veggies, saute the meat, add some salt. Taste. Stir, simmer. Pick some fresh herbs from the garden. Taste again. I find that when I'm cooking, other concerns melt away: what am I going to do about my mom? What does the future hold for my brother? Should I retire early or keep trucking, or just quit now and do something else? Boot Mr. On-Again-Off-Again or not? How far behind will i be at work on Tuesday because I'm taking Monday off?

All those concerns just disappear for a while, for me, when making food (and also while gardening). I think it's something like "Flow," though I think my "flow" state when I'm writing is much different than when cooking. But either way, my body is engaged in some way, the analytical, OCD part of my brain is turned off for a while, and some caveman part turns on: must make food to eat... feed the tribe. I don't even mind cleaning up the kitchen after, though I pretty much hate all other forms of housekeeping.

I like it. I need to cook more. I used to think I wanted to have a small restaurant, but when I thought about it, it seemed like way too much work. And I suspect cooking wouldn't be nearly so nice if I HAD to do it.

EdithKeeler
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Random Musings and Blathering

Post by EdithKeeler »

Thinking about the past and future. The past: wishing I'd saved more money back when, wishing I'd kept my houses when I moved and built up a stock of rentals over the years. But absent a time machine, such musings are pointless. Though good to consider when thinking about future decisions I might make.

The future: Potential promotion still moving--glacier-like--forward. Interview in 2 weeks; will see how it goes. Schizophrenically I go between feeling ambivalent, slightly anticipatory, sometimes excited and then "what the hell am I thinking? My current job is a cake-walk." (The latter is today's mood).

Still looking at houses. Found "THE PERFECT" house, only ridiculously big, needs some updating (pink carpet throughout!!), though very, very sound, roof, systems all pretty new. But I can't justify living by myself in such a huge place (it's 2.5 times the size of my current house!!), don't feel like dealing with roomies, and it seems stupid to give up my cheap, cozy, cheap (did I mention how cheap it is?) house just because I'd like to have a laundry room and about 200 more square feet. Maybe next year. Maybe one at the beach. Who knows? I probably need to just stop looking, which I've told myself before.

Haven't lost any more weight, but haven't gained any--still down 40 pounds for the year. Need to step up my exercise, but I've definitely changed my eating patterns for the better. I bought almond milk and vegetarian hot dogs this week. Who am I now???? And I'm pleased to report that I've taken care of some medical stuff this month, tests and things I'd been putting off. One teensy scare that turned out to be nothing. All is well. Good to know for sure. Oh, but I do need to schedule that colonoscopy. Ugh.

And... feeling lonesome. Realizing that my world keeps getting smaller between time spent at work, time spent with elderly mom, time spent alone. I really need some hobbies--ones that I do WITH PEOPLE. I think I've mostly used work as a big social outlet--now I'm in a cube in the corner and seldom see anyone. Not good for a somewhat extroverted person, at least at times. I don't really have a lack of friends--I'm one of those people who is fortunate to have a handful of really, really CLOSE friends, and don't necessarily need a wide network with a lot of people. But my very best friends aren't local. Need people to go have a cocktail with. Not quite sure what hobby that might be. Hiking club? Drinking group? Ha.

But enough about that... the numbers. I was surprised to realize earlier last month that I had surpassed my number for "early semi-retirement," which for me is a number where I could potentially work for less money or part time because I have enough saved that I wouldn't NECESSARILY need to continue contributing to a retirement fund, just let it grow until I'm ready to call it quits. So I've surpassed that number. Good to know, but I find I'm marking it more casually than I expected, probably because I'm not that unhappy in my job right now. Bored, yes. But not crazy from over work like I was a few years ago when I was ready to walk out the door.

My net worth increased by $23,000+ in July, through good fortune, good stock market, and good real estate. I have a little debt (HE loan on my rental) that I'm plowing money at, and barring something bad happening, I should have that paid off by the end of February. Which will be SWEET. However, my mom has been having trouble paying for some of her prescriptions, so I'm helping out with those until she gets out of the "donut hole." She has several prescriptions which are quite expensive, and even with the complicated bullshit of the whole Medicare discounts, etc. it's adding about $500 a month to her expenses that she doesn't have. (May I just say that healthcare in this country is freakin' ridiculous? I've been arguing with my health insurer over double billing on some of my tests, trying to figure out what's going on with some of my mom's Medicare stuff... Why can't we just pay more in taxes and get our medical stuff when we need it and be done? But I digress....). Anyway, I'm glad I have the cash to help my mom out when she needs it, and I don't begrudge the extra money that can't get thrown at the HE loan. I mean, I don't begrudge it too much, anyway...

So. All is well. No real complaints about anything. Life is good, even a bit boring.

Dragline
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Re: Too Old To Retire "Young"

Post by Dragline »

This sounds like many of my personal diary entries. Even down to the yet-to-be-scheduled colonoscopy. I must be in good company. ;-)

But don't think about bigger houses. Unless you really enjoy caring for inanimate objects.

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GandK
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Re: Too Old To Retire "Young"

Post by GandK »

Congratulations on everything. :-) I love reading your journal entries.

EdithKeeler
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Re: Too Old To Retire "Young"

Post by EdithKeeler »

Thank you, GandK, for the kind compliment!

EdithKeeler
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Setting a Date and Planning ahead.

Post by EdithKeeler »

I've been thinking hard and projecting my readiness to pull the plug on my current job. I could do it now, a form of early semi-retirement, but for a variety of reasons, it makes sense to keep working for now. Work is not hard, and I don't hate it. Though I am frequently bored.

So I've decided to set a date: last day of work at my current job will by July 9, 2021. Why that date? Well, I originally had June 30, but then I decided to stay on an extra week and get paid for the holiday! Plus, July 9 was my dad's birthday. Why not. And I feel the need to put it here, in writing, just to keep myself honest. (It'll be fun to come back and see how close I got to my plan....)

That date works out because I will have been paid my yearly bonus, my profit sharing will have been deposited in my retirement account, and I'll have gotten the yearly contribution to our pension plan.

By that date I will have:
--At least $100k more in my retirement plan, assuming no great dips. That also assumes pretty much no earnings as well.
--House will be paid off
--Pension should be at the point of paying around $400 or so a month. Not huge, but hey... every penny.
--Rental property should be paying me at least $500 or so a month (will still have a mortgage, but mortgage and fees are more than covered by the rent payment)
--I should have at least $25K in my HSA account, to cover my deductibles, etc. on my health insurance. Health insurance is the big unknown in this plan... I know I can buy an ACA policy, but I wonder what the ACA will look at by then. Too much to hope for that we could get single payer done in 5 years...
--I should have at least $50K in non-retirement accounts. Currently I don't save much outside of retirement accounts, but I'll be bumping that up soon. That $50K will be the "slush fund" if the house needs significant repairs of there's some other emergency that I can't cover out of my monthly budget.
--Ideally I'd like to replace my car right around the time I quit. My current car will have about 150K miles on it by then, which isn't horrible, but I just don't have the sense that my current car will last that long. I may need to add a little cash to the slush fund.

If all goes as planned, I should have yearly income of right around $30,000. Unless I change my living arrangements, that should be plenty to live on and even do some traveling.

That's less than 5 years. When I think about how quickly the last 5 years have gone, I know it will be here soon. Let's see if my plan is doable!! (I asked Magic 8-Ball. It said my plan will work.,,,).

saving-10-years
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Re: Too Old To Retire "Young"

Post by saving-10-years »

(I asked Magic 8-Ball. It said my plan will work.,,,).
Like your style, but you seem to have a very solid plan so luck plays very little part. I hope work is not all boring for next five years (but perhaps not too exciting either).

EdithKeeler
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Magazines

Post by EdithKeeler »

My name is Edith Keeler, and I'm a magazine-a-holic.

But now I'm on the wagon. I spent today cleaning out a cache of magazines I've been saving. Saving for various reasons: recipes to go thru again, maybe there's an article I want to save, some cool pictures that I might use for something... Tossed the bunch today after cutting out a handful of recipes and articles. It occurred to me, even as I did that, that with the internet, who needs magazines anymore? Almost all the magazines I tossed feature recipes on their websites for free, and there's no shortage of articles or pretty pictures out there.

What a freakin' waste of money. And paper.

So... day one of my sobriety.

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