The min-maxing trap

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Scott 2
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The min-maxing trap

Post by Scott 2 »

Min-Maxing. The practice of playing a role-playing game, wargame or video game with the intent of creating the "best" character by means of minimizing undesired or unimportant traits and maximizing desired ones.


IMO individuals drawn to an ERE approach are prone to this behavior. We can be so focused on winning life, we forget to enjoy it.

As I get older, I recognize the behavior in myself, and the effect it has on my quality of life. Sure skipping that fancy dinner is cheaper and healthier, but that doesn't make it optimal. Hah - even there - it doesn't matter if the behavior is optimal. What matters is if it is the life I prefer to lead.

If I die 10 years younger but enjoy every meal, so be it. If I work for an extra hour but help someone I like, great. It's easy to redefine the achievement orientation of our culture, instead of actually escaping it.

Min maxing is bad. YOLO!!! :)

Dragline
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Re: The min-maxing trap

Post by Dragline »

This just sounds like rationalization of whatever bad habit that you may have fallen into through a cognitive bias called "framing".

So for instance, you have framed the fancy dinner as a one-off event. Whenever something is framed as a one-off event, it makes it easy to justify it.

But what if that is a habit that you have fallen into that occurs fairly frequently?

You have also couched your contention in what is known as the "false dilemma" fallacy, viz. "If I die 10 years younger but enjoy every meal . . ." These are not mutually exclusive events -- it is possible to do both or neither, so there is no logic to the statement.

Your post implies that the life of Rob Ford, the former mayor of Toronto who died yesterday at age 46 after a life of obesity and addiction problems, was a great success. Yes, he only lived once, had the pleasure of getting high a lot, and ended up with a sad, shortened existence and a miserable death from cancer.

You would be much better off using framing to redefine "enjoyment". Separating "enjoyment" from "desire" or consumptive behaviors is an ancient and worthwhile endeavor.

Scott 2
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Re: The min-maxing trap

Post by Scott 2 »

Maybe for the mayor, getting high was that good. I suspect fear of such a truth is what keeps many from trying hard drugs.

My point is it's a mistake to prioritize resource maximisation over all else - whether that is life span, health, wealth, sexual partners, beer, whatever. We don't get a replay. Fear of squandering resources is a major threat to a full life experience. It's another form of the achievement trap.

The beat cancer thread made me think of this. Yeah I'll eat healthy and exercise because it makes me feel good and I like to. But I am not going to build my life around trying to control every possible risk of death. It is inevitable and ultimately outside my control.

I've gone down the path of meditation induced euphoria. When happiness becomes independent of activity, we lose reason to act - love, work, eat. The simple pleasures in life become irrelevant and in my experience, are missed. A life devoid of lows and highs is dull.

My experience was happily grinning at my computer while I failed to find motivation for work. Walking around dizzy from not bothering to eat enough. Passing on sex because I was already tranquil and serene.

Understand the trade offs, sure, but if you really like sky diving, go jump out of some planes.

Yesterday I lifted too heavy weights, dosed myself with caffeine and alcohol, stayed up too late, did dumb things on the internet, ate cookies, played with kittens, had fun with my wife and didn't finish my work. It was a great day.

I could have done moderate exercise, avoided all drugs and sugar, worked hard, gone to bed on time and been too busy to do most of what I enjoyed. Today I would have more treasures. I am glad I didn't. If get hit by a bus, I'll be even happier about those choices.

jacob
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Re: The min-maxing trap

Post by jacob »

Min-maxing is good. The problem is that we tend to optimize the things we measure and that we don't always measure the right things.

George the original one
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Re: The min-maxing trap

Post by George the original one »

Yup, mini-maxing what doesn't matter gets you in a trap. Mini-maxing what matters is time well-spent.

Tyler9000
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Re: The min-maxing trap

Post by Tyler9000 »

jacob wrote:Min-maxing is good. The problem is that we tend to optimize the things we measure and that we don't always measure the right things.
+1

Also, the things we desire to optimize may change over time. Just one example -- When you're young, fancy meals with friends may be a major source of joy and will seem really important, so you'll find all manner of rationalizations to justify them. When you have a family and finally learn to cook, the same expensive meals may start to run counter to new goals and can lose their appeal entirely. Your future self may still enjoy the old memories but wish you had been much smarter about it.

So the problem I see with min-maxing isn't that optimization is a bad thing, but that over-doing it in the short term runs counter to a long-term strategy. I have a friend who is the classic example of an "all-or-nothing" personality who is always optimizing the moment and "buying experiences" but inevitably burns himself out and is constantly spinning his wheels. Happiness is always one new optimized scheme away, and changing course requires great effort.

IMHO, the traditional consumerist approach is to min-max enjoyment in any given moment in time without regard to larger goals. ERE for me is about minimizing needs and maximizing personal flexibility so that I can pivot at will. Where it does involve sacrifice, it is done with purpose. The definition of sacrifice is to let go of something you like in exchange for something you want even more.

IlliniDave
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Re: The min-maxing trap

Post by IlliniDave »

Maximize the things that give you the most peace of mind and minimize the things that cause angst and stress. This I think leaves the most fertile field for happiness to grow within a person. Maximizing "fun" can lead to squandering the opportunity to find happiness.

Scott 2
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Re: The min-maxing trap

Post by Scott 2 »

Time horizon definitely does warrant consideration. I suppose part of my perspective is acceptance that "I'll live forever" is not the accurate time horizon.

I agree optimizing to the right metrics is better, but I still think the idea that there is an optimal solution leads to unnecessary rigidity and can be detrimental overall. Perhaps that reflects the inherent difficulty of metrics.

I've even tried to optimize the noise level of my tea kettle... Learning to say good enough is appropriate.

I'm not sure for the human experience, if stress and angst are to be avoided entirely. Often the situations which make life interesting are loaded with them.

BRUTE
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Re: The min-maxing trap

Post by BRUTE »

humans can't not optimize for something. min-maxing just means optimizing for fewer things. this works well for people with atypical preferences.

probably the hardest thing for humans is to find what "the right things" are.

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Sclass
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Re: The min-maxin

Post by Sclass »

IlliniDave wrote:Maximize the things that give you the most peace of mind and minimize the things that cause angst and stress. This I think leaves the most fertile field for happiness to grow within a person. Maximizing "fun" can lead to squandering the opportunity to find happiness.
This pretty much sums up what I have to say on this. Well said.

I actually enjoy building a little Sanctuary for myself even if I have to struggle a bit to do it. This little pig likes to build homes of brick. It's fun.

I have a YOLO cousin who is miserable now. Classic case of financial misery. I've been hanging with him since age six. It looked pretty damn fun for the first twenty years. I won't trade places with him for all his bungee jumps, trips to Vegas, Coke lines and go cart rentals. It's over for him now. I had to rent him a hotel the last time he wanted to hang out.

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