The Art of Not Being Governed

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SavingWithBabies
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Re: How Will My Fascination with ERE Affect My Marriage?

Post by SavingWithBabies » Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:21 pm

Well the silver lining is you can rename your journal. Just go to the first post, edit it and change the subject.

suomalainen
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Re: How Will My Fascination with ERE Affect My Marriage?

Post by suomalainen » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:29 pm

@clarice thanks for sharing. I find it fascinating to see emotions and experiences similar to mine play out from a different perspective. It somehow helps to broaden my own perspective. Hard to explain. Anyway, I hope the peaceful feeling persists.

Earlybath
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Re: How Will My Fascination with ERE Affect My Marriage?

Post by Earlybath » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:25 am

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:29 am
What is the point of pointing your metrics towards a single bed lifestyle, if that is unlikely to ever be your ideal?
(Quietly) Plan for the worst, hope for the best ?

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7Wannabe5
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Re: How Will My Fascination with ERE Affect My Marriage?

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:50 am

@Earlybath:

I typed the word "ideal", but "lot in life" might have been more apt. I couldn't even maintain the boundaries on my garden space/project. I always partner up. I don't want to hijack Clarice's journal, so I won't go on endlessly, but I think this is a tendency that should be taken into consideration, just like the tendency to create value. Clarice has an extant partnership contract with her husband which resulted in her only cash flow categories being mostly personal items. I have an innate tendency towards entering into partnership contracts which resulted in my cash flow categories being mostly personal items. It seems "teenagery" to be spending money mostly on personal items, because that is what you do with your babysitting money when you are 13.

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Clarice
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Re: How Will My Fascination with ERE Affect My Marriage?

Post by Clarice » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:18 am

I have a money question. I am posting it here because it's too low-level for the general money discussion. I hope for some kind soul to type "yes" or "no".
Clarice is 102 years old. She thinks that she just might match Jeanne Louise Calment's record and live until 122. Clarice lives on $20K a year. She needs 400K and her SWR is 5%. Is that roughly correct? I want to make sure that I understand the concept of SWR correctly.

ThisDinosaur
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Re: How Will My Fascination with ERE Affect My Marriage?

Post by ThisDinosaur » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:30 am

Yes.

$400,000 * 0.05 = $20,000

But if you are only looking to live twenty more years (from 102 to 122), you can try to spend it all down to zero.
Look here:
viewtopic.php?p=28301#p28301
If you only need to live twenty years, and your return rate is 5%, then you only need thirteen (13) years of assets. Or 260K.

$20,000 * 13 = $260,000.

chicago81
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Re: How Will My Fascination with ERE Affect My Marriage?

Post by chicago81 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:59 am

Jason wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:20 am
Maybe you just need to put those feminine wiles to use. Like set up a date night where you cook him a home made meal made from scratch, show yourself off in a dress you made by hand, prop him up be letting him beat you in a game of chess, and then when you are relaxing in your newly decluttered living room, coyly whisper in his ear "You know what really turns me on, baby? A man who re-soles his twenty year old work boots."

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Clarice
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Re: How Will My Fascination with ERE Affect My Marriage?

Post by Clarice » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:09 pm

chicago81 wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:59 am
Jason wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:20 am
Maybe you just need to put those feminine wiles to use. Like set up a date night where you cook him a home made meal made from scratch, show yourself off in a dress you made by hand, prop him up be letting him beat you in a game of chess, and then when you are relaxing in your newly decluttered living room, coyly whisper in his ear "You know what really turns me on, baby? A man who re-soles his twenty year old work boots."

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
@chicago81:
Thank you for reminding me that quote from infinitely quotable Jason. When he wrote it I laughed too. Today I have a short story to tell. The shoe laces on DH's Keens got torn. I KNOW in my heart that 1 year ago he would treat his Keens as indivisible, determine them non-functional, and throw in the garbage. A couple of weeks ago, when it happened, he started tinkering with the shoe laces, somehow fixed them, and proudly announced that he saved $10 on Keen shoe laces. I was pleasantly surprised.

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Clarice
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Re: How Will My Fascination with ERE Affect My Marriage?

Post by Clarice » Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:45 am

So... I've started working since July 2nd. It's not quite a full time job, but it's a real Monday through Friday thing. I am responsible for my area of expertise - very different from keeping a seat warm while a responsible party is on vacation. This new real job is better than I remember my old one to be - better boss, better caseload. DH has also started a new job 2 weeks after me and now responds only to conversation starters with the phrase "optical transponders" in them. :ugeek: I've started a new hobby - biking, and compensated with money for the total lack of any skills in this area. Another new thing this month is paying with my hard-earned money for groceries and DD's expenses. My expenses do not feel teenager-y anymore. For the 6 months before July I was pinching pennies with my own expenses while buying groceries and paying for DD with the money linked to OUR account financed by DH's salary and our rental income. Not anymore. It's been a sobering experience. I've been living a double life (NO-O-O-O, not like in The Americans :lol: ): pinching pennies for myself while giving my conventional, extroverted, and ambitious 13-year-old quite a mainstream Silicon Valley upbringing. Here is my July:

Total Pay Checks: $4,136.55
Total Expenses: $6,342.45
Autonomous NW: $2,706.32

The details are as following:

GROCERIES - $405.32

OTHER FAMILY OBLIGATIONS - $4,111.78

DD's daily pass to an amusement park - $47.99
DD's birthday gift - $100
DD's birthday party (food and decor) - $168.66
DD's math tutor - $350
DD's ballet school tuition through December - $3.372.50

GIRL'S STUFF - $28

Dry Cleaners - $28 (messed up my 2 fancy silk dresses at the June wedding);

EDUCATION AND ENTERTAINMENT - $1,647.03

Work-related expenses - $39.48 ( an alarm clock, a therapy tool, and a pack of new socks);
Book on Amazon - $7.97
Amazon Prime Membership - $14.99
Bike - $999.91
Hitch - $205.74
Hitch Installation - $100
Rack - $278.94

TRANSPORTATION - $150.31

Gas - $150.31

I am looking forward to August with optimism: No one among my relatives is getting married, all tuitions are paid, even DD's math tutor has gone to Ukraine to visit her mother. I'm hopeful. :)

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Clarice
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Re: How Will My Fascination with ERE Affect My Marriage?

Post by Clarice » Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:20 pm

August 2018

MARRIAGE
Not easy. We've always gone though periods of extreme alienation, leading parallel lives. We slip there because of this disagreement or that, and then it's weeks or months. Cold. Ice cold. I am always the one who has to make the peace. DH is not a peacemaker. He is not a maker in general. He is a reliable, disciplined follower. Every time, in order to end this ice age I have to fake it until I make it. It doesn't come from love. It comes from grit. But love follows. Right now I do feel love. It took a lot of grit to get here. That was my August.

WORK
It's been 2 months of this Monday through Friday thing. It has taken away my freedom and my time for introverted intuition to roam free, and taxed my extroverted thinking a lot. It's given me money (duh...), some social capital, exposure to a lot of Millennials, and opportunities for people watching among other things. It feels very different to be in the trenches as compared to observing from afar this "insert tube - collect rent" healthcare racket.

MONEY
Keep tinkering with categories, which I spend "my" money on. Charging groceries on "my" credit card did not work. DH realized that if he wanted certain things he had to go and buy them himself. DD also learned quickly who to turn to if she wanted something ridiculously expensive at a grocery store. All I accomplished was making myself a less effective shopper and obscuring from DH the grand total of our family's grocery budget. No more. "No responsibility without authority." Who am I stealing it from, @7wb5 or @suo? :lol: I am sticking with most of DD's expenses. I owe them. They are my creation, not DH's. So, here are my August numbers:

Total Paychecks: $7,263.96
Total Expenses: $2,161.31
Autonomous Savings: $8,013.83

Groceries and Supplies: $408.10

DD: $1098.23

Ballet - $921.22
Math Tutor - $70
Entertainment - $97.01
Back-to School - $10

Girl's Stuff: $83.99 (mostly clothing)

Education and Entertainment: $262.35

Bike gloves - $18.24
Eating out with DD - $51.82
Amazon Membership - $14.16
Online access to Beachbodyondemend.com - $10
A set of tools for work - $54.77
2 Theater tickets (DD and me) - $105
Book - $8.06

Transportation - $308.94

Uber - $51.10
Gas - $194.15
Car things at O'Reilly Auto Parts - $63.69
Last edited by Clarice on Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Jason
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Re: How Will My Fascination with ERE Affect My Marriage?

Post by Jason » Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:30 pm

Clarice wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:20 pm
August 2018

MARRIAGE
Not easy. We've always gone though periods of extreme alienation, leading parallel lives. We slip there because of this disagreement or that, and then it's weeks or months. Cold. Ice cold. I am always the one who has to make the peace. DH is not a peacemaker. He is not a maker in general. He is a reliable, disciplined follower. Every time, in order to end this ice age I have to fake it until I make it. It doesn't come from love. It comes from grit. But love follows. Right now I do feel love. It took a lot of grit to get here. That was my August.
This paragraph is not only breathtakingly literary, but explains why Russian girls make the best strippers.

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Re: How Will My Fascination with ERE Affect My Marriage?

Post by jacob » Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:42 pm

It's the one paragraph version of War&Peace(?)

suomalainen
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Re: How Will My Fascination with ERE Affect My Marriage?

Post by suomalainen » Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:59 pm

Clarice wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:20 pm
"No responsibility without authority." Who am I stealing it from, @7wb5 or @suo? :lol:
I take no credit for originating it, but I am an evangelizer. Where it really struck a chord with me and has stuck with me since:
7Wannabe5 wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:17 am
General rule of thumb is don't take responsibility where you don't have authority. Black hole suck.
And sorry to hear about your August. Relationships are hard.

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Clarice
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Re: How Will My Fascination with ERE Affect My Marriage?

Post by Clarice » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:26 pm

jacob wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:42 pm
It's the one paragraph version of War&Peace(?)
Ha-ha, feel flattered. I'd say more like Anna Karenina than War and Peace. Now, that I think about it, the husband of Anna Karenina is often mentioned as a textbook example of ISTJ - something he shares with DH. I can totally relate to her temptations (but not the jumping under the train part). :twisted: Now back to the money. I've done a little investigation and unearthed my old retirement accounts - from working at a school district like for 5 minutes, from working at a large hospital, and the money that has been in my current 401K from since I worked for this company a long time ago. Here are my independent finances for right now:

NW - $42,060.88
Checking Account - 10,316.61
Retirement Accounts - (401K, 403B, CALSTRS) - $32.761.60
Vanguard Windsor Fund - $2, 982.67

September Checks - $4,809.65
September Expenses - $1,183.59 spent in the following manner:

Groceries - $168.04
DD - $650, mostly HSPT (high school placement test) tutor;
Education and Entertainment - $216.99, books, work-related expenses, Lenny Kravitz ticket;
Transportation - $123.88
Girl's stuff - $24.68

I should have done this independent finance thing a long time ago. It affects not only finance. It adds a sense of agency and self-possession to all areas of life. I love it.

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Clarice
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Re: How Will My Fascination with ERE Affect My Marriage?

Post by Clarice » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:16 pm

Here I go again observing my spending patterns...

Checking Account: $16,005.15
401K: $8.968.53
Old 403B: 21,014.27
Old Calstrs: $3,168.11
Winsor Fund: $2,794
October Pay Checks: $5,977.84
October Expenses: $1,254.28 spent in a pattern that is familiar to me now: farmer's market, DD, got an expensive haircut, ate out twice, had some work-related expenses, got an oil change, a smock check, drove a lot. Major bills are all paid courtesy of DH: property taxes, insurances (all of them), utilities, internet, cell phone plan, groceries.
I am working 25-30 hours a week, spending the best part of the day indoors (hate that), have less time to invest in friendships, gardening, hiking, and reading. My plan is to hang in there for 4.5 years until DD goes to school and then re-assess my options. :ugeek:

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Clarice
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Re: The Art of Not Being Governed

Post by Clarice » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:50 pm

It's been a while... I've got swept by holiday machinations, motherly duties, and overall busyness. I am still doing accounting in a red notebook, but not transferring my numbers here. I was doing fine in November and December, but then, when the holidays were almost over, on January 5th, I had a major, MAJOR episode of falling off the wagon, :shock: provoked by social anxiety. Here is my story...
DH's sister invited us to a party. I cringed, but said, "Yes" (there are only so many sudden colds, cases of flu, and headaches a girl can have... :twisted: ).
SIL and I don't have a great relationship. When DH and I got married, his family did all they could not let such a little thing as their baby's marriage to influence anything. He was, after all, their obedient little boy. Their. Obedient. Little. Boy. His parents are gone, but Big Sis is here. Really here - in Silicon Valley - a 20-minute drive from our house. Every time we visit, she does her best to behave as if I am not there. More than that, while in her presence, my husband commits a disappearing act. Suddenly, a kind, competent, and reasonable man I've married is gone. I am sitting at the table, eating filet mignon, drinking Beluga, watching that fake, pretentiously humble woman and her idiotic baby brother and thinking, "What on earth am I doing here?". Back to January 5th... :D
I pushed aside the unpleasant thought of going to that party - being lonely in that gorgeous McMansion overlooking Silicon Valley lights and watching DH's behavior - developmental age equivalent of 5 years ( I am saying it as a professional speech-language pathologist with years of pediatric experience :lol: ). Suddenly, on the morning of the party, feeling gloomy and resentful, I found my "saving grace". SIL's ex-husband was going to be there. He always liked me. I could have a pleasant evening flirting with him. :idea: With that thought, I went shopping for a dress... to Neiman Marcus, of all places.
The evening went all right given the circumstances. I spent it mostly sitting at the table and pleasantly chatting with the guy on my left while totally forgoing my babysitting duties to the charming 5-year-old idiot on my right. I got lots of compliments. It was more bearable than I expected...
I am looking at that dress. It is beautiful. It is a casual, cocktail dress. Every inch of it is a testament to its quality. Made in Switzerland. From a fabric produced in Italy. Its color goes well with my natural skin tone and currently red hair. It's flattering to my body and underlying my skinny waist. Its price tag? Don't ask. I won't tell. Too ashamed to tell...

Mister Imperceptible
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Re: The Art of Not Being Governed

Post by Mister Imperceptible » Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:10 pm

I enjoy the new journal title. Clarice is breaking bad. :twisted:

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Clarice
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Re: The Art of Not Being Governed

Post by Clarice » Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:06 pm

@Mister Imperceptible:

Thank you. This is the title of one of my favorite books by James C. Scott. It is an ambition of mine, not a reality as of today - not being governed. IRL I feel social anxiety, use clothes as body armor and have advanced toward FI way slower than I've hoped. As of lately, the thoughts of this guy (Alain de Botton) have helped me a lot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aw1oLtuJOXQ&t=1779s

He talks on such topics as pessimism, stoicism, and why you will marry the wrong person. He is also funny.

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7Wannabe5
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Re: The Art of Not Being Governed

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:23 am

I am guessing $839 on the social armor. :lol:

What does grown man behaving like obedient 5 year old look like? Did he run to get a paper towel after he spilled drink twice?

Most of the men with whom I have been in relationship exhibit consistently terrible behavior, so the women in their families are usually more like "Here is a casserole and a bracelet as small tokens of the deep gratitude we feel towards you for taking this one off of our hands."

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Clarice
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Re: The Art of Not Being Governed

Post by Clarice » Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:00 pm

@7Wannabe5:
What does grown man behaving like obedient 5 year old look like? Did he run to get a paper towel after he spilled drink twice?
I wish... :lol: DH never spills any drinks. He is super-neat and really well coordinated. When I spill a drink (a frequent occurrence) he is bothered by this behavior tremendously. I am trying to abide by 11 commandments with 11th being, "Thou shalt not spill" :twisted: , but it doesn't work. ;)
Most of the men with whom I have been in relationship exhibit consistently terrible behavior, so the women in their families are usually more like "Here is a casserole and a bracelet as small tokens of the deep gratitude we feel towards you for taking this one off of our hands."
That's an interesting experience that I've never had. In my case, the original family reacted with sadness along the lines of "He left us for another woman." My SIL has done her best to ignore the unpleasant fact of my existence. She tells DH in my presence things like, "We've bought a twin bed for our summer house for single people, especially for you.", writes him an email, "You are coming to Christmas by yourself, aren't you? Jewish people ignore Christmas." , and sends sweet texts inviting him for a Valentine dinner. My frustration with a 5-year-old is for his inability to process this behavior for what it really is while being totally coherent in other aspects of life. Only as of lately I've become mature enough to deal with it myself in a satisfactory manner and not to whine like a 5-year-old girl, "She is mean. Fix it." while DH comes up with various creative interpretations of his Big Sis' unpleasant behaviors. However, it is still stressful, hence, my latest falling off the wagon episode with a dress. :roll:

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