PoorButWealthy's Journal

Where are you and where are you going?
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Egg
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by Egg »

Congratulations on your sheer consistency in such aggressive saving. (Semi-)FI by 30 does indeed sound like an excellent starting point. Now for the real challenge of making the most of it!

Also, not to play the sceptic, but let's say you're currently living on 800USD per month on average. If you don't know what you want to do after 'pulling the trigger', how do you know that will be enough? Obviously, there's loads of great and interesting stuff you could do at that spending level but, if nothing else, that limits where you can live without doing some kind of paid work (at least of the accom-for-limited-work kind). Did you already decide to stay where you are currently based?

Frita
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by Frita »

Congratulations on shedding an illusion that was holding you back! That can take a lot of time and work. We don’t talk much about the spiritual/psychological/emotional aspects of ERE on the forum; however, that is what I find to be more challenging than saving money, living frugally, etc.

ertyu
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by ertyu »

Frita wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 2:35 pm
the spiritual/psychological/emotional aspects of ERE on the forum ... that is what I find to be more challenging than saving money, living frugally, etc.
Aye. And not just more challenging, more important and foundational. But that might just be my infp-ness shining forth. no spreadsheet or plan would stick if the psychology isn't sorted out. i too have found that the real struggle and work is inside, on myself.

PoorButWealthy
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by PoorButWealthy »

@egg: Well, first of all, I think the blog post "One more year before comfort" by Jacob (http://earlyretirementextreme.com/one-m ... mfort.html) answers your question at least partially. Moreover, I think Jacob's quotes “spending money is a failure to solve problems by smarter means” and “spending money is a failure of imagination” also have a lot of truth in them.

What happens after 6/2021 (or earlier) when I quit my current "career path" is something that is not determined by the concept of money (or prestige, status, society's expectations etc.) or the limitations that money installs on a human being. What happens is determined by what "emerges" from my creativity / sincerity / obsession / passion [on a side note: I've been pondering for a while on what's the difference between obsession, passion and addiction, and the more I think about it the more I come to the conclusion that they are all rooted in the same place of the human psyche]. What I'll do in the future has nothing to do with money. Sure, money might come as a side-effect from living authentically, but otherwise money is a useless concept in the reality where you have enough money. Let me explain this in another way: when you have enough to eat, you rarely think about food; when you have enough of sex, you rarely think about sex; when you have enough dopamine in your brain, you rarely think about ways to artificially increase dopamine (e.g. coffee, nicotine etc.). The need and urge for more than what's enough is probably an addiction. The hardest part regarding all of this is to truly internalize what's enough. In a sense, “you know it when you know it”, i.e. you can feel it in your gut and bones. For me, it took over 5 years of intense psychological work to internalize what's enough.

When you're living a life true to yourself, you don't really think about money, as long as you have your basic needs met (shelter, food, some social interaction etc.). All I need is to have my very basic needs met so that I can live an authentic life. When you're immersed in a life that truly captivates you, money is the last thing that you're thinking about. Money is just a tool that makes it possible to live an authentic life. That's the only value of money. Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger aren't rich because they have a money addiction. They are rich because money is a side-effect of their passions and obsessions. The world tends to reward mastery. World class mastery in any given field or activity tends to be rewarded with money. And the only way to achieve world class mastery in anything is to follow your true interests and obsessions and forget about the (extra / "more than enough") money.

It should be borne in mind that the mathematics behind ERE / FI are very different in Finland than in the U.S. In Finland we have practically free (top-notch) universal health care, unemployment and other social benefits are generous and the social “safety-net” is very wide. So, in a sense, every Finnish citizen is already “financially independent”, as everyone is entitled to at least 1000-1200 euros (depending on the cost of rent and other factors) of benefits per month combined with free health care. For example, I have bought “insurance” against unemployment, which will pay me about 2000 euros per month (after taxes) for almost 2 years after I'm unemployed. This insurance costs me under 100 euros per year, i.e. it's insanely cheap. After this insurance pay-out runs out, I will receive at least about 600 euros per month from the government for the rest of my life (assuming that the country doesn't go bankrupt...) if I remain unemployed and if I choose to accept this benefit. Pretty sweet, eh..?
“Did you already decide to stay where you are currently based?”
I haven't decided anything about anything. What happens in the future, happens. However, at the moment, I'm very happy with my apartment and the location where I live [on a side note: I have traveled a fair share during my life and I pretty much hate it]. I cherry picked and bought this apartment about 3 years ago after doing intense research and optimization on location, environment, future price appreciation potential and probability, the physical condition and cash-flowing assets of the housing company etc. Moreover, I renovated the whole apartment from floor to ceiling mostly by myself in the evenings after work and weekends (i.e. sweat equity), which makes this apartment somewhat special to me. The CAGR of the apartment's price has been about 5% and I think there's a high probability that it will remain in the 3-6% range over the long-term.

PoorButWealthy
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by PoorButWealthy »

@ertyu and Frita: Yes, indeed. Money solves one's "money problems", but nothing else. This is why money is such a dangerous trap, as many (or most?) people truly believe that money or financial wealth will solve all of their problems and provide them "happiness" and "peace". What a joke! Sure, money might solve some problems, but then again the human mind will generate new "problems" to replace the old ones very quickly. It's a never ending game. But when you understand this game and the illusion of a "carefree" life, it stops bothering and tormenting you.

Frita
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by Frita »

Well said, PoorButWealthy! Money seems to be an equal opportunity trap in that it sucks in folks at all socioeconomic levels. Then throw in additional externals like careeerism, materialism, and consumerism that create and reinforce the do loop...I find the oddest thing about stepping off the hamster wheel is the relative lack of company.

From what you describe, Finland has built-in safety nets that I can only imagine. At least in the countries where I have lived (Mexico, US, Guatemala), being poor (and even being content with what you have) is viewed negatively. The US has more opportunity and safeguards that allow one more personal choice than the other two with a similar difference between Mexico and Guatemala. What I am trying to say is that Finland has mechanisms in place that one can more easily ask, “Who do I want to be? How do I want to live?” Even then, it sounds like there is still the significant inner work.

Anyway, I am rambling. I enjoy reading about your journey.

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Egg
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by Egg »

PoorButWealthy wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 9:58 pm
@egg: Moreover, I think Jacob's quotes “spending money is a failure to solve problems by smarter means” and “spending money is a failure of imagination” also have a lot of truth in them.
I agree that creativity can substitute for money in many cases. Let's hope you don't run out of either (no snark intended).

Two questions:

1) If "enough" is only a state of mind for you, rather than a financial number, why even consider waiting another year?

2) I infer "yes" from your previous answer, but do you consider that you are living a life true to yourself/authentically right now?

biaggio
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by biaggio »

Congratulations, your numbers are truly impressive considering your age. The journal is an inspiring read. I hope you don't mind me asking if you're based in Norway? I was going to guess you're based in Sweden based on your expenses but then the income numbers look a bit high for that - at least based on my knowledge of the Swedish labor market - you'd have to be making over 65k SEK a month in gross salary assuming Stockholm tax rates - which would be very hard to achieve for a 20-something.

PoorButWealthy
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by PoorButWealthy »

@Egg: Hope is a dangerous concept. Hope is only present when one fears an "adverse outcome". One doesn't want to be hoping anything. By hoping that some outcome will realize in the future one attaches oneself to that outcome and that will consciously and unconsciously affect one's thinking and behavior. I suggest swapping hope for indifference. As J.Krishnamurti said: "Do you want to know what my secret is? You see, I don't mind what happens". One might argue that true indifference is a definition of freedom. Whatever happens, happens, and that's the way it is. Indifference is also one form of anti-fragility, i.e. you'll be well (or better) of whatever happens. One would only "hope" for something when one thinks that some outcome is "better" or "desired" or "right" or "good". In reality, nothing is "good" or "bad" or "right" or "wrong". These are just artificial concepts of the mind, which seem so real and true, but are nothing but illusions. For example, most people hope that they'll live a long life. Why? Why is it desirable to live a long life? What does it do for one to live a long life? In this case, hope is just a way of the mind to fight the human's primal fear of death and to not accept the truth of the matter. Sooner or later, everyone of us will die and everything will "disappear". All of one's ambitions, fears, problems, anxieties, successes, achievements etc. will go up in smoke. Puff, gone, and nowhere to be found ever again. Almost nobody will remember one in the future and nobody will know that one even existed on this planet. When one truly internalizes this, it's very liberating, as one realizes that one has a blank canvas (of life) in front of oneself and one can paint whatever he wants. There are no (or very few) limits or rules, and one can use almost limitless creativity to design and build a lifestyle that best suites one. And some day, sooner or later, when death comes, it all disappears. So, there's really nothing to be lost or to be afraid of. Dance your own dance, and when it's your time to go, die with a smile on your face, as you know that there are no regrets and you left nothing on the table. As O. Sacks wrote right before his death: "It is the fate of every human being to be a unique individual, to find his own path, to live his own life, to die his own death". One might ask why am I rambling about this kind of stuff when I should be discussing the concept of "hope". Well, the teaching is that every time one hopes that something will happen, one should instead examine really deeply why one is hoping that. By doing that, one will eventually arrive at interesting conclusions.

I'll give some examples how I've used my creativity to save money during the last six months.
- I decided that I'll start playing tennis again after a three-year break. Tennis can be quite an expensive hobby, as renting a tennis court for 2 hours costs normally about 30-60 euros. If you play tennis even once a week, the costs will add up over time. Well, then, one might ask oneself how to play tennis for free? Well, find and locate free (high quality) tennis courts, call your tennis-playing friends (no expensive coaching needed) and get them to play with you, use your bike to transport yourself to the tennis courts (10 km) in the early morning (at 7-8 a.m. when the courts are all empty), and play as much tennis as you want! I have played at least once a week 2 hours of tennis for free for 4 months now and I have paid absolutely nothing for it, I mean zero euros.
- I eat organic berries (blueberries and lingonberries) and apples every day and have been doing this for years. The problem is that they are somewhat expensive (berries 7-9 euros kg and apples 3-4 euros kg). The solution? Pick your own damn berries and apples! The Finnish nature is full of wild growing clean organic berries and apples, and very few people bother to pick them. I have already collected tens of kg of berries and apples this month and will collect much more of them in the coming months, as the lingonberries, chokeberries and apples fully ripen. Then I put them in the freezer, eat them everyday, and save a nice chunk of money every year (about 500-600 euros) for the rest of my life. And by doing this, I have effectively decreased the required "ERE-stash" by a lot and thus moved myself again closer to financial independence.
- I do sauna and cold-showers (or cold-pool or winter swimming) almost every day. The problem is that it's somewhat expensive to go to commercial saunas that are nearby my apartment (at least 50 euros per month). The solution? Find a public fitness center or swimming hall with a sauna that accepts the "exercise bonus money" that my employee provides me every year (300-400 euros). There are three of them on a 10 km radius of my apartment. So, I put my running shoes on, run to one of them every morning and do some additional "urban" cross-fit exercises in the nearby parks, while I'm listening to podcasts, learning and contemplating on all kinds of stuff. I pay almost zero euros for this bliss on an annual basis.

Q: If "enough" is only a state of mind for you, rather than a financial number, why even consider waiting another year? A: "Enough" is a state of mind, which is built of internal and external factors. Obviously, in order to build a state of mind of "enough", it must incorporate some external factors. Enough financial flexibility, enough food and water, enough shelter, enough social interaction, enough sex, enough thinking and reading etc. It's hard to see that anyone (not even the Buddha or some other sage) could reach a state of mind of "enough" without some external factors (food and water etc).

Q: "Do you consider that you are living a life true to yourself/authentically right now?" A: Yes, very much so. I'm "dancing my own dance" and every day that dance becomes more and more authentic. It compounds very fast. In a sense, day by day, I'm becoming more and more "uncommon among the uncommon" (side note: this is a concept by David Goggins, who's audiobook "Can't Hurt Me" is a must listen if one is interested in the limits of the human psyche and how to override them). Most "normal" people (work colleagues, friends, family etc.) can't comprehend the way I live, think and speak. It's like we're living on different planets and speak a different language. The funny thing is that while they can't understand me, I can understand them, because I used to live, think and behave just like them when I was younger. It's an interesting position to be in, to say the least. In a sense, I understand the "game" the are playing, but they don't understand the game I'm playing. Moreover, the more I dance my own dance and compound it day-by-day, the more I like and love myself and the more I enjoy and accept the human being that I am with all my "strengths" and "faults". I used to hate and despise myself when I was younger and my self-talk was brutal ("I'm a piece of shit", "I don't deserve anything" etc). Now I understand that this self-hate was a product of living a very unauthentic way of life, i.e. a way of life that tried to please and fit into my parents' and society's demands and ideologies etc. The reality is that I don't fit in to these demands and ideologies of the "status quo" and if I try to force myself to fit in, I suffer greatly, both mentally and physically. Thus, I have now accepted the fact that I need to walk my own unique path in life, whatever the "costs" are. As J. Krishnamurti said: "It's no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society". Moreover, a great quote by C.G. Jung is: "The privilege of a lifetime is to become who you truly are.”

@Biaggio: Thank you. I'm based in Finland. My salary is in the top 5% of the Finnish working force, which explains the "high" income numbers. I work in a niche-field that is a mixture of finance / economics / banking / law / strategy. The number of experts in this field is extremely scarce, the learning curve is very steep and somewhat non-linear, and therefore the salaries are high.

wolf
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by wolf »

PoorButWealthy wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 4:35 am
Nowadays I'm much more interested in much deeper (i.e. fundamental) psychological and philosophical reading, contemplation and reflection.
Thank you PbW for your post which was inspiring and insightful.

What have read (in the last 2 years) to think like that?

I am too very interested in deeper psychological and philosophical reading. Currently I am reading a book with an overview of the most imortant psychological development theories, e.g. Kegan, Piaget, Freud, Loevinger, ...

PoorButWealthy
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by PoorButWealthy »

@Wolf: I have read, listened to and observed an endless amount of wide-ranging information (books, articles, scientific research, podcast, documentaries, "skin in the game" real life trial-and-error, tinkering etc.) during the last five years. And more importantly, I have allocated thousands and thousands of hours to process, analyze, reflect on, stress-test and refine this input, and then incorporated the resulting "1st principles" / "laws" into my own mental models and thinking systems. Thus, there are no single information inputs that have produced this thinking and behavior. It's a mixture of pretty much everything you can imagine that is processed and refined to match my "DNA". However, one very influential single factor is the daily habit of contemplating and visualizing my own death, as well as the shortness and "insignificance" of a human being's life [on a side note: because life is fundamentally meaningless, one must create one's own meaning and not descend into nihilism (see e.g. the concept of "Übermensch" by Nietzsche and "Knight of faith" by Kierkegaard)]. I would argue that it's pretty much impossible to achieve true freedom in one's life without doing this kind of deep "Memento Mori" contemplation on a regular basis.

@Wolf: What is the reason that are you interested in deeper psychological and philosophical contemplation and learning? Have you always been interested in it or is it a more recent development? I'm curious to know.

wolf
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by wolf »

Thank you PbW for explaining. I expected something like that, that the psychological development couldn't be traced down to one specific cause. Although ,in hindsight, it may be described with a few important causes.

Honestly, I don't know "why" I am interested in it, but I know I am. It started maybe ten years ago. Back then I would say a transforming phase of my life began. First it started with reading books about success, progress, change management, e.g. "The 7 habits of highly effective people". Since then I have read many similar books and studied many psychological articles and papers. I assume I wanted to develop from an dependent state to and independent one. And if I judge it today, I succeeded. During the last ten years I went deeper into the "rabbit hole". I got interested into buddhism, psychology, veganism, spirituality, personality typing, thinking big, business transformation/development, entrepreneurship, personal contemplation, journaling. And then I learnt of ERE in 2016. And all of a sudden many things made more sense than before, e.g. why I intuitively saved money, lived frugally, optimized my lifestyle, questioned common assumptions of society, etc. As I write these lines, I maybe have a clue why I am interested into psychological and philosophical contemplation. Initially I wanted to grow to a self-transforming person, based on Maslow's pyramid of needs. I wanted to master the satisfaction of all needs. And Maslow's pyramid of needs was definitely a starting point back then. So I also contemplated about my personal values. Lately my interests grew into psychological development theories. Still, I have the urge to change, transform, self-actualize, contemplate, develop, although my need for it changed from an inner perspective to an outer perspective, e.g. understanding myself towards understanding the world. I had some more or less tough time during my adolescence, due to family issues. And then I carried those issues with me when I grew up. I experienced some difficult and hard years when I drank and partied. In the end I came to the insight, that if I continued that kind of lifestyle, it wouldn't end good. So I quit the hard way and started my self-transforming life out of nowhere (that was back ten years ago, as I wrote above). One good example is, that I quit almost all (toxic) friendships I was dependent of and started my journey to an independent existence. Nowadays my challenge and next phase in life would be to develop into an interdependent person, because the more you become independent the less you have to do with society, other people, friends, etc. But I want to be a part of other people's life and still be mostly independent. I have to let go. And therefore, I guess, comes also my motivation psychological and philosophical topics.

Again, PbW, I really appreciate that you share(d) your experiences! Wish you all the best.

UK-with-kids
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by UK-with-kids »

I just read your whole journal for the first time PBW, so I got the whole story in one go. And very inspiring it is too. It gives me lots of ideas about how to live a better life, and a useful reading list too. I like the way you don't just read the books, but reflect/analyze and try to incorporate them into your life outlook. I think I've been guilty of reading many books without doing that, which is ultimately a bit pointless.
PoorButWealthy wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 4:35 am
However, on a side note, I've cut my food bill by 150 euros this month and will continue to do so in the future. I've finally found a sustainable way to reduce my huge food bill without compromising the quality and nutrition of the food. As we all know, this is a big deal when it comes to calculating the required "ERE stash" (i.e. 1800 euros saved per year and thus a reduction of 45 000 euros in the "ERE stash" when utilizing the 4%-rule). With time, I think I can shave off another 50-100 euros per month of my food bill, but that remains to be seen
I'd be really interested if you could elaborate on this, as we come up against just the same limitations. I noticed you've started picking and freezing your own fruit, which I'm sure is part of the answer, but how else are you achieving this, particularly the need for protein?

PoorButWealthy
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by PoorButWealthy »

@Wolf: Thanks for sharing your journey, I appreciate it. It seems like we are quite similar in many ways. Interestingly, as in your and my case (and in almost all cases...), the spark that lights the fire fueling a radical transformation-process (as e.g. the journey to ERE, radical psychological change etc.) seems to be some kind of deep or existential suffering, pain, discontent, crisis, reaching “rock bottom” etc. There is tremendous energy and force in these emotions and feelings (that are often coded into the human's psyche in [early] childhood), and if one is able to direct this raw energy into “constructive” / “positive” / “beneficial” actions and aspects of life, the long-term compounding results can be truly astonishing. Unfortunately, this is quite rare and few people are able to do this (due to various reasons). In fact, most people are consumed and poisoned by this raw energy for their whole lives, as their minds interpret it as being something negative, undesirable, overwhelming or anxiety-provoking. They never question or stress-test their beliefs regarding this energy. However, the truth of the matter is that this energy is neutral, not negative or positive, and one is responsible to decide for oneself how to interpret this energy and how to allocate and utilize it in one's actions, behavior and thinking. As I see it, this is one of the most important realizations that one can make, as it can change one's life direction 180 degrees. This realization, when one truly feels it in one's gut and bones, will change everything. This is especially true for people who suffer from mental health issues (depression, anxiety etc.) and other ailments of the mind (anger, victimization, learned helplessness etc.), i.e. instances where the energy is interpreted as negative and toxic.

@UK-with-kids: Thanks for the kind words. I will come back to you later this week, when I find the time to write more. Minimizing the food bill, while maximizing and perfecting the nutritional and health aspects of the food, is a topic that I'm obsessive about, so it deserves a long and thorough post. :)

wolf
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by wolf »

While looking for nihilism content on youtube, I found this. After watching, waiting and contemplating I thought of your philosophy/way of thinking. It has some similarities, doesn't it? I kind of find it fascinating, besides other philosophies of course.
Optimistic Nihilism

PoorButWealthy
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by PoorButWealthy »

@Wolf: Yes, the "optimistic nihilism" presented in the video is very similar to my way of perceiving the world. It's pretty much a version of Nietzsche's concept of Ubermensch.

@UK-with-kids: I have slashed my food bill, while keeping the health aspect of the food intact, by the following methods:
- Eating a calorie restricted diet
- Cooking everything myself and never eating out or eating pre-made (or processed!) food
- Utilizing mostly domestic vegetables, fruits and other produce (fish, berries etc.) that are in season (and thus very cheap)
- Picking berries and apples myself and freezing them
- Making my own mustard, sauces etc.
- Buying bulk quantities straight from local organic farms (peas, fava-beans, non-processed oats and barley etc.) or organic stores (spices etc.)
- Swapping some expensive organic produce (e.g. nuts and seeds) to non-organic (but still high quality)
- Increasing the amount of complex carbohydrates and decreasing the amount of protein
- Eating very rarely meat or other expensive produce
- Drinking a modest amount of coffee (1-3 cups a day) that I always make myself, never buy. Coffee is something that I don't fuck around with. That is, I buy the best quality and freshest roast. Coffee is something that really activates a lot of mental activity for me, and with high-quality coffee I get a nice "flow", "creativity" and "smooth energy". However, shitty and cheap coffee feels like crack to me, i.e. some kind of "dirty" and "anxious" energy. That's not something I want to put into my body and psyche, it compounds really poorly on the long-run...
- No alcohol, no soda, no juice, no carbonated water etc. Only tap-water, coffee, decaf coffee (swiss water method), rooibos, hibiscus and chamomile tea.

So, I eat mostly vegetables (including root vegetables), legumes, grains, sourdough rye bread, fruits, berries, olive oil, avocados, nuts and seeds, egg-whites etc. I eat fish (vendace [6-10 e/kg]) 2-3 times a week and red meat once every two weeks. I eat pretty much the same foods every day and cook the same dishes, so the "eating process" is very efficient. With time, I've become a really good chef for my own taste. I know what tastes good to me and I'm able to cook it with all kinds of ingredients and produce. Thus, cooking has become a really enjoyable hobby for me, and I often combine cooking with listening to audiobooks or podcasts. This is one of my favorite times of the day, i.e. when I can create something tasty and healthy from dirt cheap ingredients and simultaneously listen to great discussions or books.

The reason why I can tolerate so much complex carbs is that I fast 18-20 hours a day and work-out and move about 2-4 hours a day. So, my glycogen storages are pretty much depleted when I eat, so the glucose in the blood stream gets quickly absorbed in the muscles, liver etc. Moreover, I eat almost all carbs cold (potatoes, legumes etc.), which really decreases the glycemic load of them and provides some additional health benefits (insoluble fiber etc.). Most people, who don't use these "hacks", really can't tolerate this amount of carbs without getting fat and sick. Interestingly, my body-fat is about 6-8% when I'm on this diet, so everything seems to be working fine... I should also mention that I increase the amount of fat, decrease the amount of carbs and total calories on those days when I've slept poorly or been stressed out. This is because during these days insulin sensitivity is weakened and thus the body is not able to process a large amount of carbs without spiking blood sugar and insulin excessively.

I'm not really worried about protein intake or the lack of it. At this stage, I'm pretty much an "amateur" athlete who works out intensively every single day, and I feel GOOD with my current diet. When I was younger, I used to be a 80kg "bodybuilder" and now I'm a 63kg "cross-fitter" (height 175cm). Being a "lean and mean" cross-fitter is so much more enjoyable than being a bloated bag of muscles. Moreover, it seems like my weight doesn't go under 62-63kg no matter how much I train and how little I eat. I've been studying quit a lot about long-term calorie restriction and starvation and how it seems to reduce the risk of CVD, which is something I'm trying to avoid as long as possible (very bad CVD genes run in my family tree...)

I take the following supplements everyday: B1, B2, B6, Folate (methyl), B12 (methyl), magnesium citrate or chelated, Kyolic Aged Garlic (Formula 100), vitamin D3, vitamin K2 (MK-7), Zinc (L-Opti), phosphatidylserine, curcumin (phytosome) and L-taurine. According to the research I've done, Jarrow Formulas is a high-quality and trusted brand, but I also buy some stuff from NOW and Doctor's Best.

ertyu
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by ertyu »

The part that was most interesting to me which I hadn’t herd anywhere else was the synergy between omad/full glucose depletion on the one hand and the savings from being able to stay healthy on a high carb diet(grains and legumes) on the other.

As for protein intake, unless one is a professional athlete or some such, grain + legume is a complete protein and more than enough for most of us. So I wouldn’t worry about protein on this diet either, even if i work out.

Western Red Cedar
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by Western Red Cedar »

@PBW

I appreciate your writeup on nutrition and diet. It's inspired me to look more closely at my approach to food and budget. I started intermittent fasting at the beginning of the year and it's been very effective (last meal around 6:00 or 7:00 pm and waiting to eat a large breakfast until around noon. I usually have a couple cups of coffee or tea in the morning but I've heard that if you are under 50 calories it doesn't affect ketosis). You're a couple levels beyond where I'm at in terms of buying directly from local organic farms for bulk goods and consciously balancing sources of proteins and carbohydrates. Well done!

PoorButWealthy
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Re: PoorButWealthy's Journal

Post by PoorButWealthy »

@Western Red Cedar: Thank you. Black coffee or tea doesn't affect ketosis, but it might affect autophagy and other processes that are activated by fasting. The jury is still out on this topic and I reckon that no scientist knows the answer to this. In mouse models, black coffee increased autophagy, but it's unknown how it affects humans. Either way, couple of cups of (high quality) black coffee in the morning probably doesn't do any harm in the big picture.

For a long time, I've had a love-hate-relationship with caffeine and coffee. It can very beneficial or very detrimental. By trial and error, I've found a way to pretty much eliminate the negative physical effects of caffeine (“jitters”, increased heart rate, the need to move around, “ADHD” feeling etc.). The solution (for me) is the following: 2-4 hours after caffeine ingestion, go do an intense workout and end it with some kind of cold exposure. This simple regimen gets rid of the physical energy that caffeine produces. In a sense, this way you utilize caffeine to it's fullest, as you burn the physical energy produced by caffeine by exercising and cold exposure, and burn the mental energy produced by working on your projects, reading, creating or whatever. Personally, I'm after the mental energy and I don't really want the physical energy, I find it somewhat anxiety-provoking. Moreover, by doing the workout and cold exposure, the mental benefits of caffeine last way way longer than without them. Sometimes the energy lasts for as long as 15 hours, when drinking 1-2 cups of coffee in the morning (at 2.30-3.30 AM). I've also noticed that the healthier I am and the better I sleep, the more benefits I get from even small amounts of caffeine. Moreover, caffeine tends to strengthen the prevailing mood, i.e. if you're feeling optimistic and good, caffeine makes it even better, and vice versa.

Nonetheless, it should be born in mind that caffeine is a stimulant and a very addictive one. It should be used very carefully and tactically, if one wants to derive the benefits of it. Unfortunately, most people are incapable of doing this. I would argue that a lot of anxiety-related mental health issues are made worse or possibly even rooted in excessive caffeine intake. At least this was the case for me for a long time. Stimulant addiction is a real deal and it's often rooted in deeper issues of the psyche, and many people try to self-medicate these issues with massive amounts of caffeine (>8 cups of coffee a day etc.).

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