ERE - poker edition

Where are you and where are you going?
Zanka
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:33 am

ERE - poker edition

Post by Zanka » Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:31 am

Introduktion part 1

I open the envelope, 8000$. What? My head is spinning. Water leaking is not cheap (even if you and the landlord has insurance). Im on the phone and hear words like "fine print" "email attachments" etc. What am i going to do now?

This i what happened to me After running my personal finances down into the ground in an attempt so save the relationship with my daughters mother. I was out, mentaly and physicaly. I took a job. My parents lend me enough to hela me get back on my feet. And i suffered.

Wake up. Dress. Eat. Work. Sleep. And parenting. Keeping the dog alive. Breath.

During the "where schould the daugther live"-meetings I dressed up like Buddha to prevent open war and somehow managed to keep the shared custody.
She finaly calmed down and realized it is better to treat each other well.

I was tired beyond what I thought were possible. I missed the freedom of playing poker but i were alive..

Jason
Posts: 630
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:37 am

Re: ERE - poker edition

Post by Jason » Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:11 am

I empathize, I do. But the obvious question is whether there a correlation between the "freedom of playing poker" and the fact that your personal finances and arguably your complete personal life are both thoroughly lodged in the shitter.

And as I admit that I'm not big on either the whole Easter Religion thing or gambling in general, if they work for you, that's all that matters. That being said, I don't exactly recall the Dalai Llama winning The World Series of Poker.

Zanka
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:33 am

Re: ERE - poker edition

Post by Zanka » Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:34 am

Thank you for your response.

Jason
Posts: 630
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:37 am

Re: ERE - poker edition

Post by Jason » Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:54 am

Anytime. That's what I'm here for.

As a follow-up, did you think of contacting an attorney? $8K for flooding as a tenant seems excessive unless you left the bathtub running for a month or something of that nature.

Did
Posts: 631
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:50 am

Re: ERE - poker edition

Post by Did » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:03 am

Sounds like the start of a novel, but there's not that much information in the post. It's s journal so fair enough but I'm not sure how to respond except with it will get better and, financially anyway, you've come to the right place if you want to waste less.

Zanka
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:33 am

Re: ERE - poker edition

Post by Zanka » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:27 am

Introduction part 2

So where were I. Oh yes, I was tired and working (in a "real" job) for the first time in a long while. I had been a professional pokerplayer for the last 8 years with all its ups and downs. (Tbh I had not been playing that much the last 1.5years or so due to my partner having some major health problems but anyways.)

So i made it trough the first year and after som well needed vacation I feel a lot better. I started reading up on minimalism and naturaly found jakobs site that way. I have no idea if i can pull of an ERE or just an ER, I have started to take this serously as of yesterday.

(Oh, english is a second language for me so have som patience with my grammar and spelling)

Current financial state.
Debt;
2300$ to parents (down from 10k oct-16)
23000 loan on appartment (worth ~80k)

Assets;
2300$ on savingsacc

Income;
1400$ from my job
450$ from poker. (Average last 8months)

Spending: (some guessing involved)
600$ rent (inc 100$+ interest for loan)
100$ utility, internet etc.
35$ Home and child insurance
80$ dog (food and insurance)
100$ car
230$ payment to parents (minimum)
100$ spending on child
300$ food
150$ random crap.
60$ phone

Total 1745$ (very rough numbers)

As we can see, there is a lot to be done here!

August goals:
Track all spending.
200$ on food.
50$ on random crap.
Keep decluttering my home.

Ok so im playing poker, it is what it is.

Years until FI: infinite

Zanka
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:33 am

Re: ERE - poker edition

Post by Zanka » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:35 am

Thanks both of you. I can get a bit dramatic at times but I think im getting somewhere with that 2nd part.

Jason
Posts: 630
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:37 am

Re: ERE - poker edition

Post by Jason » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:16 am

No explanation needed. I make Norma Desmond look like a stoic. You'll probably have to google that reference if you care enough. Its probably not worth your time, considering all the things currently on your plate.

You can only start where you are. So keep at it. I'm not sure how the whole degenerate gambler thing is going to play into this. There's probably some European poster here who can work up an algorithm for that shit. In any event, baby steps.

Zanka
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:33 am

Re: ERE - poker edition

Post by Zanka » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:50 am

Haha lol.

Yeah i think ill be able to reduce those numbers fairly easy in the beginning. First milestone would be to live on 1400 and thus be able to save all extra income.

Jason
Posts: 630
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:37 am

Re: ERE - poker edition

Post by Jason » Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:36 pm

I'm betting you can do it.

Zanka
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:33 am

Re: ERE - poker edition

Post by Zanka » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:55 am

After reading a fair bit about about eating once a day im starting the WD as of today. Drank a cup of coffee this morning (will change to tea) and been drinking water during the day. It is 4pm and im feeling ok. Getting hungry tho :roll:

Also starting to plan my meals and shopping better.
Getting rid of the tv and home internet (got sufficent data on the phone).
Will try to repay parents by end of August, end of september at the latest.

wood
Posts: 269
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:53 am

Re: ERE - poker edition

Post by wood » Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:14 am

Looks like you have hit the bottom so much so that you are making drastic life changes now for the better. Keep it up and good luck!

I would be interesting to hear your story on being a professional poker player. The ups and downs, how much you made etc.

Zanka
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:33 am

Re: ERE - poker edition

Post by Zanka » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:51 am

Thank you! I Will get to the poker later this weekend.

I have done som calculations and realized I could mayby get my spending down to close to 1000/month in the future so that is going to be my longish term goal.

Poker earns me somwhere between 15-20$/h. But i need to be fairly rested and emotionaly balanced so i cant just grind it out. Aiming for 40-60h/ month.

Edit: poker is tax free

Jason
Posts: 630
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:37 am

Re: ERE - poker edition

Post by Jason » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:21 pm

I would be interested in hearing about that as I have never heard of someone quantifying poker earnings in hourly wages.

It's not exactly a car jacker thinking out loud "Let me see, between pistol whipping that bitch in the parking lot, stealing her keys, getting away from the pigs in that high speed car chase, killing my partner, and paying off my ex cell mate at the chop shop, I made $16.33 per hour before FICA today" but it seems along those same lines.

User avatar
C40
Posts: 1938
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:30 am
Location: Western U.S.
Contact:

Re: ERE - poker edition

Post by C40 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:55 pm

dude, it's just poker

Jason
Posts: 630
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:37 am

Re: ERE - poker edition

Post by Jason » Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:24 pm

That's exactly what my beloved Nana said about Bingo before they kicked her out of assisted living for giving out lap dances in exchange for numbered ping pong balls.

So don't tell me it's just poker.

RIP Nana, we still cherish the good times

Zanka
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:33 am

Re: ERE - poker edition

Post by Zanka » Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:33 pm

Haha I like you Jason.
So you havent met any pro pokerplayers, thats fine.

Fyi I track every single hand I play (couple of millions over the years) so I have a decent grasp of what Im doing althou it might sound crazy to outsiders who know nothing about the game. 😏 Poker is a game about part numbers (math) and part people (psycology). Numbers is the easy part.

Jason
Posts: 630
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:37 am

Re: ERE - poker edition

Post by Jason » Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:49 pm

I used to play nickel and dime poker with a bunch of failed actors in NYC before the internet. I would buy Doritos and soda for everyone and say "If I lose up to $50 its just a night out." But not for them. After the game they would go to play illegal slot machines or head down to Atlantic City to the casinos. I'd blow my winnings on hand jobs in stair wells from women I prayed were actually women. Que sera.

I have a semi-earnest post somewhere about my fear of gambling. I have suffered through addiction all my life, but I thank God it was never gambling. I'd be dead.

I know you know what you're doing. I knew someone who subsidized their income when internet poker was around. I actually know someone who's son is playing professionally. It just makes me shudder when I hear stories about the losses people incur.

I like you too Zanka and because of that I wish you the best of luck in your child custody Buddha battling poker playing journey to financial independence.

Zanka
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:33 am

Re: ERE - poker edition

Post by Zanka » Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:15 am

So my (very old) car broke down yesterday, i dunno what the cost will be but it made me start pondering the possibility to live without a car. Daycare is walking distance from home and work is a 15min bikeride away. Relatives live very close. Thing would def get trickier and require a lot more planning on my part. And then there are the winter (-20C is a regularity).

Economicaly i would save;
100$ gas
20$ insurance
10$ tax
22$ parking
Total: 152$/month

Then adding repairs etc It easily gets up to 200$ on average.

The negative aspects of this would be a very limited day to day life, I enjoy cross country skiing during winter, hiking in the forest and visiting friends. I am not sure what I will end up deciding.

slowtraveler
Posts: 480
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:06 pm

Re: ERE - poker edition

Post by slowtraveler » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:12 pm

Cool journal. Thanks for starting it. You've come to the right place to build up your net asset value. Poker sounds fun but it's a damn emotional roller coaster.

For your basic scenario, a bike works. Use chains in winter and you're good.

But I too love the forest, friends, and going farther than a bike. The cost of another old car is probably sub $2000 with a little work. If repairs>cost new old car, you could get a another car.

I know there are some here who find active volcanoes to roast marshmallows, forage all their food, and live on a fraction of others but this is your journey. YMOYL is a book that introduced me to a concept of weighing costs in hours. So you earn x/hour. In a month-how many hours worked and dollars earned? Subtract all commuting, tax, and work expenses from the dollars earned. Then add all the hours commuting, preparing, thinking about work and get your real $/hr earned.

Let's assume you get $10/hr when everything is done, is the car worth 15 hours of work per month to you? Is it worth 20?

Zanka
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:33 am

Re: ERE - poker edition

Post by Zanka » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:42 pm

Thank you Felipe!
So the car just needing some supersmall repairs and It ended up beeing almost free so im giving it one more chance as for now. (But im seriously starting to question if its worth paying for a car.)

Poker can def be very stressful but the level im playing at right now is 1/10 of the level im used to play at. So as long as i keep my feet on the ground im pretty confident i can have a good grasp of what i will be earning (and the stress will be far less than if i played higher stakes).

I dont have time to write my poker background today but i will get to it soon.

Again, thanks for all the responses, im learning a lot!

JamesR
Posts: 830
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:08 pm

Re: ERE - poker edition

Post by JamesR » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:48 am

Jason wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:21 pm
I would be interested in hearing about that as I have never heard of someone quantifying poker earnings in hourly wages.
Online poker makes it easy to track every hand played. In fact, quite a few poker players will play multiple tables at the same time (the software allow it). It's very much a game of skill, you know your odds for various hands depending on your position (relative to the first bidder), the number of people that are at the table, the number of ppl that have called or raised or folded before it came to you. There's also the meta-game, if you get a feel for what level of indirection other players might be playing at, you can play at a higher level of indirection against their style. You can be playing 2-4 tables at the same time, executing a set of heuristics, grinding it out. Over thousands and hundreds of thousands and millions of hands, you know whether your plays are +EV or not (positive expected value). You're typically playing at tables with certain betting limits, such as $0.25/$0.50 or $2/$4, so your playing is tailored towards the type of players that play those tables. You end up knowing your win rate, and to get your hourly rate, you would multiply your win rate by the tables you play per hour multiplied by the table big bet limit.

I think that's the gist of it, I never got into it professionally. Anyways for poker players it's much more a game of skill than gambling. Unlike most forms of gambling, there is no "house", in casinos they only take a little bit out of the pot, other than that someone always wins, and it's usually the one with the most skills. That's why some poker players have won World Series of Poker bracelets multiple times, against tens of thousands of poker players every year.

Zanka
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:33 am

Re: ERE - poker edition

Post by Zanka » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:45 am

Pokerstory part 1

So i started playing in 2007 when poker were still very popular while at the same time the knowledge of the game still hadnt developed that much. This meant that, IF you were lucky (or wise) enough to find a good coach or where an adapt self-learner you could definately make a lot of quick progress and eventualy money.

Poker is a game of skill dressed up as a game of luck. Period.
Lets say we throw a (6 sided) dice, i got odds, you got evens. In the long term we will both en up even x=3/6 -3/6.
Thats pretty basic.
Well poker is played with a 52 sided dice and different "throws" builds different values (1 pair, 2pair etc). A good polerplayer will just learn the math behind the throws and then learn the psycology behind how different playertypes react in different situations (starting with himself).
Im not going to go into any more detail since everything is to be found on the internet for free if you just search for it.

So I knew nothing about this in 2007 and thus i lost. Not that much but a few 100$. I realized that I could not continue that way so I took a break and read every pokerbook i could get my hands on (10-15 or so). i probably read every book multiple times, some 10 times.

In the fall of 2007 i got a job wich really sucked all my energy and i didnt play for 6 months or so. But in the spring of 2008, after 8months i could not take it anymore so i just quit. I had maybe 2000$ (Way to little) to my name, most of it were on my poker acc. I had monthly expenses (all included) of 700$ and could cover maybe 50% by working for a friend so i didnt need much to stay floating. I managed to get trough the summer breaking even but i realized this wouldnt last in the long run.

This is when 3 things happened pretty much at the same time;
I met a friend of a friend that had made a couple of 100k$ from poker.
I found one of the best (small stakes) coaches in the world.
My gf decided to go abroad for 6+months.

So in October of 2008 i decided the following 3months would be make or break time.

To be continued..

Jason
Posts: 630
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:37 am

Re: ERE - poker edition

Post by Jason » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:46 am

@JamesR

Thank you.

I've watched docs on WSOP. It takes a combination of incredible skill and a personality that is comfortable applying that incredible skill in that specific milieu I.e. huge brain and huge balls.


@Zanka

Very interesting.

Zanka
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:33 am

Re: ERE - poker edition

Post by Zanka » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:09 am

On another note.
Fixed a hole in my sweatpants.
Glued a candleholder that got broken.
My god what an idiot i have been for a long time.. my first instinct was to throw both of those things in the trash. What an eyeopener this is. Its embarrassing to say the least.

Also spent 50$ on food so far (on pace for 200/mo).
Baking my own bread right now.
Ordered staples online for 40-60% discount.

This is my new life!

Post Reply