classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Where are you and where are you going?
FBeyer
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by FBeyer » Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:33 pm

Fuck! If only there were other ENTJs around, who've been in a similar situation before, with an education that deals with sorting that kind of self destructive shit out, then you'd be in a much better spot.

Well, sucks to be you I guess... ;)

7Wannabe5
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:32 am

Gotcha. You just need to think in terms of natural cycles rather than metric totals. For instance, the difference between "Drink 48 oz. of water each day" vs. "Rehydrate myself at least every few hours."

Two 12 hour shifts in 36 hours of work like unto contract nursing or substitute teaching is brutal. One compromise I made in order to be able to tolerate working more this spring is I am only accepting assignments in affluent districts. So, I get less of the altruistic feeling of "making a difference" and less of the adrenaline buzz of dealing with chaos, in exchange for better ability to intermittently meet my own self-care needs through the course of the day.

The plus side of a job which requires a good deal of hustle is that it can be relatively easy to intersperse healthy physical activity. For instance, I could easily choose to log 10,000 steps or do 15 minutes of yoga with a class of third graders or work on my arms by getting 5 year old children started on swing set.

If your GF's love language is Words of Affirmation, you could also keep "in touch" during brief break at work, thereby reducing necessity to engage right when you are desperate for solo down time, or if her love language is Physical Touch, you could physically engage on very basic level without need to mentally engage. I get a lot of mileage out of Floppy Doll mode in my relationships. Acts of Service can be readily combined with other frugal activities such as baking or bike repair. Gifts and Quality Time relationship needs are obviously the tougher ones to fulfill when simultaneously busy and frugal.

Jin+Guice
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by Jin+Guice » Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:06 pm

My first observation after I started consciously semi-EREing was how fucked up working actually is. At the time I was doing the rough equivalent of 3 12 hour shifts a week. I always lost the 4th day to recovery and spent a good portion of the day before I went back to work preparing for the week ahead. So 4 days off was actually 2.5 days off. That's when I decided to go from part-time in training to PRN after training.

I really can't tell you how different your life is when working for pay is not the major activity of your life, but simply an activity you engage in. It's really wonderful, but it takes some time to get used to actually having control of/ being responsible for something like 80% of you waking hours. It also takes practice to be able to anticipate when you're going to be tired and need a day of rest, what projects are worth doing, how often it's worth working (for and not for pay), when you need social time and when you need alone time. Working 24 of 36 hours more than ~twice a year is an insane way to live.

classical_Liberal
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by classical_Liberal » Thu May 02, 2019 12:47 am

@Fbeyer
:lol: point taken.

@7WB5
Good suggestions. The idea of working in tune with my/the natural schedule has great appeal. It's going to be first on my list once I have control over my schedule again.

@J+G
I have vague memories of the emotional difference I felt back in 2009 when I was very much in a part-time work, full time personal projects/improvement situation. It's like I can remember how much better that was, how much more productive and relaxed I was, but it's fleeting. Like a dream the next morning.

Augustus
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by Augustus » Sat May 04, 2019 3:06 pm

Congrats dude! Glad you pulled the trigger!!! The mental hurdle is the biggest one, MMM wrote a great post on confidence that tipped the scales for me. You should pick up surfing :D

classical_Liberal
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by classical_Liberal » Sat May 04, 2019 6:53 pm

@Augustus
Thanks! I'd love to learn to surf, if only I knew someone with a spare bedroom near prime surfing real estate... :lol:

5/4/2019
Another real quick update. I'm not making much headway on the pre semi-ERE checklist. The employment work is starting to get to me again, very difficult assignment that takes tons of energy while at work. I'm basically wasting a day before a work run to prep, and a day after to recover. I'm on nights for this assignment and that makes getting basic shit done, like doctors appointments, just that much more difficult.

Of course the money goal is rolling along well thanks to markets and a 75% savings rate. The Hospital/Unit I'm on already asked to extend my contract. They wanted to take it another full three months, ending the end of August. I'm hoping for a July end date, so I emailed my boss who handles the scheduling on Friday, so we will see how it evolves. It'll likely be some type of compromise.

Having some big issues wrt the "home base" city as well. We (GF & I) have cycled through a few, but she is getting frustrated because her contract work is less available than PT nursing. The last couple months of living apart is stressing the relationship a bit because there is so much pressure to spend the little bit of time we have together doing things, while I just need to relax after a hard run of work. So we really do not want to be in a situation initially where she has to work in different city than the home base. The hope was to find a rental for <$500 month that I can pay for in full, myself, if she ever takes work out of town. That would allow her continue paying off student loans without the worry of rent for a "home", allowing her the flexibility to take more lucrative contracts further away if she so chooses. Help her help herself type deal. The problem being, this low rent requirement limits possible places for "home base". Given the other variables; PRN work for me, potential for many nearby contracts for her, enjoyable place to live, ect. The decision is getting more difficult to make. Basically my whole plan hinges on this home base for the PRN work, at least initially, so I'm having a hard time focusing on anything else. GF is considering taking a FT job, but her pay cuts almost in half with that situation. That would just set us back for our eventual travel goals, so I'm not a big fan.

I'll continue to jot down my thoughts pretty regularly through the transition, in a less formal updates. It helps me clarify, I get some great advice, and hopefully it'll be of use for others who follow a similar path in the future.

2Birds1Stone
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by 2Birds1Stone » Sat May 04, 2019 8:26 pm

I just reread your thread since the post on April 7th, and I want to encourage you to make those baby steps towards your semi-ERE goals. Even if you can't settle on the home base, knocking out some of those other things on the list (doctor, dentist, etc) can all slowly happen as you work through this final contract extension.

How far are you from that $310k?

classical_Liberal
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by classical_Liberal » Sun May 05, 2019 2:38 am

@2B1S
I hear ya! Drs appt is next week, I have to get up in the middle of the day after a 14 hours night shift, yuk. Unfortunately most of the other stuff is all dependent on where this initial home base is going to be. The state matters for all of my nursing stuff. I hate having a bunch of nonsense type tasks hanging over me when I can't get started.

I'm at 299k, but I'm trying to avoid focus on "the number". It no longer accurately represents my goals. In three months, if we have another Q4 2018, I'll be at 290 (with a 25 CAPE); if rally continues I'll be 340K (with a 33 CAPE). Either way this has no material impact on the following 12-18 months. During that time I want to earn about 1K a month with PT work. More importantly I want to take advantage of having a fixed home by trying to set up a system that matches my cash outlays to that same amount. Also rejuvenate my mind and body a bit, I've become overweight and anxious the past few years. After that it's travel time with GF. If I was successful in the previous year, I'm FI anyway after travel. If I wasn't, I may need to focus on the number again and start coasting to FI with a little extra PT income of some kind.

classical_Liberal
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by classical_Liberal » Sun May 05, 2019 10:41 pm

5/5/2019
I'm not sure if it's appropriate to continue posting rather unfiltered thoughts here. At least it's not been the style I've previously taken with my direct journal entries (ie vs responding to others comments). However, at the moment, I really just need to post my thoughts.

Semi-ERE is getting pretty scary because it's more and more real. GF and I had a very deep discussion today before she had to go back to her current work location. I wont see her for a couple more weeks because of our schedules. Basically, this whole living apart and us being on opposite schedules on the few days we are together, is tearing her apart. I'm not liking it either. We need to have a definite plan/light at end of tunnel for her to focus on.

She has amassed FU funds to the extend of about a years of living expenses. Although it's not enough for her to payoff her last debt of student loans. She's made some amazing progress over the past year, going from paycheck to paycheck and 50k+ (I doubt I'll ever know the full extent) in debt, to a year of FU money and only 30K in low interest student debt. I've mentioned this before, but she has never wanted to retire. She is still young (27) and very much likes her job. Into the foreseeable future she does't want to quit doing it. Her goal has always been to take about halve of every year off for travel, and continue with FT contract work for the remainder. I have been the one pushing her to pay off debt and amass FU money to make that happen. Doing some maths, we quickly realized that her ongoing income stream, at six months per year, is more than enough to cover her expenses and continue to make a rather large dent in student loans or save a larger cushion as time goes by. As a result of these things, GF has decided to begin to use her FU money as well.

Going forward, GF has decided to no longer chase contract after contract, without concern for location. Now our decision for an initial "home base" is much easier. Since I'm no longer pushing her to pay off all of her debt and front load her savings, she feels much more relaxed. She feels she has the ability to pick and choose local contracts when they come up, or choose contracts based on an attractive destination we would both enjoy visiting for a few months (@J+G, NOLA is on the initial shortlist :D ). The fact that she's happy and the fact we can finalize our home base housing situation takes a load off me as well.

Holy shit, This is actually happening!!! so to alleviate some of that anxiety, I made a few fun drawings from Portfolio Charts. They represent the worst case, middle of the road, and a good scenario for my semi-ERE. Whenever I become a giant-ass wuss and want to back out, please refer me back to these!

Scenario one is the nightmare. I utterly and completely fail in every aspect of my semi-ERE. a) I fail to maintain or create any type of enjoyable income, b) I fail to reduce any expenses, and c) my portfolio takes a shit significantly worse than anything that has happened in the past 50 years.
Image
At the dot I have had five years off, traveling, relaxing, working on personal projects and I hit my emergency point of withdrawal hold. The absolute worst case is at age 47 or 48, I need to move back into full-time salary man for 5-6 years with a 50% savings rate (ie earn 40k+ a year) until early 50's to refresh my portfolio for normal retirement.

Next scenario is a partial win. Here I have either a)Successfuly reduced expenses by 30% to about 1.8 Jacobs, OR b) found enjoyable income streams at goal levels. This also assumes portfolio slightly unperformed the worst case in the past 50 years.
Image Here the two dots represent FI at normal retirement ages (62-67). The first assumes I can count on half of my social security, the second is FI without it. Both assume I give up my enjoyable income stream OR increase expenses back to present levels after that point in time (ie lose the progress I made for whatever reason).

Lastly my "good"scenario. I meet both goals of spending reduction and enjoyable income, cashflow balance. Returns on this good scenario are low-end of 50 year historical results, but not below.
ImageHere the dots represent FI with and without social security with the allowance to revert back to my current baseline and remain FI at normal retirement age.

Even the worst case is not so bad. I need to keep remembering that fact.

Augustus
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by Augustus » Mon May 06, 2019 12:42 pm

Looks like you beat me to it, I was going to tell you that there really is nothing stopping you from living in a prime surf location. You just need to wrap your head around your location independence, also, just because the job opps you/gf are looking for aren't there RIGHT NOW, does not mean they wont be there later. I don't know about medical, but IT contracting depends on the season, there's almost always upticks in demand in certain months, I think it's smarter to wait for what you want than to desperately grab at the first thing you can find. You just have to know how much runway you have at any given time, and the statistical chances of finding a gig, I usually plan on a year maximum of runway, although in reality I'd be very surprised if I didn't find a gig that met my criteria in 6 mos or less, but it's random, sometimes I find it in 2 weeks, sometimes it takes 4 months.

MidsizeLebowski
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by MidsizeLebowski » Mon May 06, 2019 3:30 pm

Those 3 charts are fantastic C_L, your buckets approach/stop-loss point for the worst-case scenario seems to filter most of the risk inherent to the semi-ere strategy. It's hard to imagine you sitting idly by as things tank for 5 years straight without lifting a finger to sure up your position as well. Looking forward to seeing how things go for yourself and GF!

classical_Liberal
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by classical_Liberal » Wed May 08, 2019 6:33 pm

@Augustus
Yes, I am location independent to a large degree. However, I'm sick of moving around at this point. I want to find a place to call home for a year or two. I really think that will help ERE goals too. It's hard to buy bulk food when you move every 3-6 months, it's hard to make the connections that a good social network brings, etc. Wrt to contracts, you have good advice. The whole point of semi-ERE is to work to live, not live to work. I need to get out of "maximize income" at any cost mindset.

@MidsizedLebowski
Thanks! I still think all of these charts are just a way for me to deal with anxiety. Worst case charts help me with stoic negative visualizations. I find it highly unlikely I'll sit on my ass for five years too. The true problem is mental.
________________

Two things thing off the pre-Semi-ERE checklist. Dr's appointment (all is well with labs) and now home base city for the first year. The later is a biggy because now we can start housing search. A couple of strong potentials have already shown up, but it's a month or so too early to really act on housing. Just knowing there are currently some good options takes a load off. I'm back to a long work run starting tomorrow, so main short term goal is to get through that without any further nursing brown-out.

Seppia
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by Seppia » Sat May 11, 2019 3:48 am

Great charts above. I'm always super prudent myself, but I think because of the echo camber here, we fail to realize how much better off we are VS "normal" people.
It's a mentally impossible thing to do for me, but whenever we feel it's a 50/50 call "should I pull the trigger or not" the answer should be FUCK YES!
Our overcautios nature serves us well when accumulating, but it makes us irrational when we're done with it
classical_Liberal wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 6:33 pm
Yes, I am location independent to a large degree. However, I'm sick of moving around at this point. I want to find a place to call home for a year or two. I really think that will help ERE goals too. It's hard to buy bulk food when you move every 3-6 months, it's hard to make the connections that a good social network brings, etc.
Having moved around quite a bit, I would agree that while moving every 3-6 months is a stress, moving every 2-3 years is a life enriching experience

Bankai
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by Bankai » Sat May 11, 2019 5:26 am

Seppia wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 3:48 am
whenever we feel it's a 50/50 call "should I pull the trigger or not" the answer should be FUCK YES!
Totally agree. I quit my first non-temporary job after being there for 15 months and feeling totally miserable. I had £400 in the bank and GF working part-time one day a week. I was oblivious to savings rates, SWR, 4% rule and all of that. I just felt I needed out so I quit. And the world didn't collapse. In fact, quitting that shitty job proved to be one of the best decisions. The crowd here is way, waaay too cautious. People quit jobs all the time with no savings or prospects at all and no one starves to death. Having even one year of expenses saved is more safety net than 95% of the population has. Also, the ability to save that much is all the proof one needs for one's industriousness and ability to find and do well in future jobs.
Seppia wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 3:48 am
Having moved around quite a bit, I would agree that while moving every 3-6 months is a stress, moving every 2-3 years is a life enriching experience
I think one gets the most benefit from living in another country for longer term (5+ years). After that, diminishing returns start to kick in, but this can be minimalised to an extent by moving to different cultures/geographies. I also wonder after how many years/countries it starts to get old and one starts to yearn for a permanent base. Once ERE, I would like to spend a year or so slow travelling Spain and then make a base in north Italy for a couple of years while visiting all of north Italy and bits of France/Switzerland etc. But after that, will I still be tempted to move to other places for one-two years at the time? Hard to say now.

Jin+Guice
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by Jin+Guice » Sat May 11, 2019 9:34 am

What qualities are you looking for in a home base location and why?

It seems to me like you get married to things/ ideas (not women though). Some level of commitment is good but commitment will limit optionality. Why not try out some homebases? It's important choose potential homebases wisely, in so much as choices are sticky, but there's nothing keeping you from moving around. On the other side, it's important to avoid FOMO and think about, am I satisfied doing this right now?

The challenges facing you are: you want to live somewhere for an extended period of time (more than 6 months at least), you have some list of qualities this place must meet, and your girlfriend will have trouble finding work in these places. Is that accurate?

Once you know what the problems are try to think of ways you can solve them that are different from how you've been solving them. We often ignore the actual issue once in favor of a default way to solve the problem. Everything I listed above is the most obvious solution constructed to solve underlying problems. If you can identify the problems and get away from the constructs you can be more creative in ways to solve them (don't despair about your dissatisfaction with your career, early retire). Seeing past the constructs is hard to do though.

classical_Liberal
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by classical_Liberal » Sun May 12, 2019 2:15 am

5/12/2019
@J+G
I love your input because it always gets me thinking. So I'm going to reply in longest possible fashion... including a story time.
Jin+Guice wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:34 am
What qualities are you looking for in a home base location and why?
First off, to answer this question directly. About equal parts of the following: Ability to create a solid social network (see below for details), Work options nearby for me, work options for GF, low COL, enough urban recreational activities to satisfy me and close to enough outdoorsy activities to satisfy me.
Jin+Guice wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:34 am
It seems to me like you get married to things/ ideas (not women though). Some level of commitment is good but commitment will limit optionality. Why not try out some homebases? It's important choose potential homebases wisely, in so much as choices are sticky, but there's nothing keeping you from moving around. On the other side, it's important to avoid FOMO and think about, am I satisfied doing this right now?
This is extremely good advice and is very true of me. However, the "marriage to an idea" is not true in this specific case. I have very thoroughly explored a myriad of possibilities to begin semi-ERE and the home base + travel works the best. At least with the available info I have now. I will do my best not to close optionality of the homebase location, or even the potential to change plans completely and abandon the home base at some future point. However, a few months ago I came to the realization that sometimes progress requires one to focus on a few things more deeply. This often requires closing some options and choosing commitment instead. This depth allows for exploration of certain situations in a way which is different in kind from simply keeping many options open. I do have something specific in mind with this home base idea, so bear with the story time and it will become evident.

Story Time
Circa 2007 c_L had been in banking for about 8 years. For reasons i'll discuss in another story post I was very disillusioned. I handled my anxiety and distress with consumerism and alcohol, like a good American. Both had gotten out of control though, I was drinking to intoxication almost daily and wasn't functioning the best at work. In @Bankai fashion above, I had enough. In an "F-it" mindset I quit my job, with no plans. Luckily I had some money saved, and figured I'd just get back into the game at some point down the road. At first It was great. I had a lot of fun partying and doing some traveling, my anxiety and frustration level diminished. The problem was I hadn't really changed anything. I was relying on the same crutches in my freedom as I had in my previous work related misery. So although I was much happier, it was still only because I was masking some type of hole in my "soul", for lack of a better word.

About six months in, I started to actually run some financial numbers and realized I couldn't stay solvent for much longer. The idea of returning to banking was so disquieting, I was willing to do almost anything to avoid it. So I sold my townhome as a low price to free up a little more cash and moved in with one of my buddies. Basically this just bought me another six months of the same. Eventually, I realized I needed to address some deeper issues. I remembered the best time in my life had been college (this is pretty universal I think), so I up and moved from Minneapolis back to the old college town. The changed provided some clarity and I quickly got involved with some local self-help type groups to help with what I thought was depression and a drinking problem. Not that I didn't have those issues, but I think they were only a symptom of a disease. The actual disease was that I was living a life counter to everything that make me c_L.

Anyway, to the point, an interesting thing happened. Through the initial exposure to the self help groups I become very active in the community. Volunteering time for community functions, taking some leadership roles in community activities, eventually taking some pretty low paying random jobs for cashflow (the money had almost run out). Before I knew it, I had a hard time going anywhere in this town of about 200K without seeing someone I knew. From a combination of the many short term jobs, community functions, self-help groups, I had, quite accidently, built this amazing social network. Through it some other, more interesting job opportunities came about, and eventually this lead to nursing school.

This period of working odd jobs, then the first couple of years in nursing school were the best in my life. I was happy, mostly anxiety free, I was much less angry at the world. Not only that, but I was feeling this good without any crutches. I was poor, so couldn't afford any large scale consumer pleasures as before, and had gone completely sober for awhile. When the inevitable surprises came around (ex a dude without insurance hit my car and totaled it, I only had liability and took a total loss), I had people. A guy knew a guy selling cheap car, he'd take payments if I needed it. This type of example was the norm, not the exception. Despite the fact I had almost no money, I felt more secure than any point in my life. Even now, with at least 15 -20 years of monetary savings I feel less secure, even though objectively that may not be true.

The other interesting fact about this time was cashflow. Now, I don't have any detailed record of spending from this time frame, but I do remember how much money I was making. I also remember that I was spending VERY inefficiently. Living in a two bedroom apartment alone, Eating out regularly, paying for a gym I rarely used, etc. But I never got into a deep hole (until I financed my tuition), which means my cash flow was pretty balanced. I was spending very inefficiently, but yet I was living on less than $1500 a month inflation adjusted. I'm only now reaching this level again, despite having mostly optimized my spending on big things like housing, food, and transportation. My overall lifestyle is very similar; housing wise, transportation wise, similar COL city, similar recreation. So how is this possible? I believe the answer is in the flow of nonfinancial resources from an amazing social network. IOW, I got much more for much less because of the social system I had in place. Not only that, but I had a much more peaceful and secure existence.
/story time

Given this history, I think what I need to advance to the next level (ERE wise) is a similar social situation, this time with optimized spending. Not only will it likely go a long way towards balancing my cashflow, but I'm hoping it will again equate to a happier, less anxious, c_L. Additionally, if I can purposely build a social network like this again, then my level of confidence in being able to do it in another location will increase. So, the plan is to give up the optionality now by committing to a home base location for a year or two. Then, if things go as planned, I actually increase my ability to maintain location independence later. Plus all of the other benefits. I believe this to be a situation where depth will beat breath, as discussed in a previous thread.
______________________

@Seppia & @Bankai

Agree that we need to go for it, but for more than one reason. Like in video games, where folks like us tend to build a character, or ship, or civilization so well that is ruins the rest of the game. So too we can build our financial situation so well, that the end becomes a disappointment because we made it too easy. Unlike a game, we can't realize our mistake and then replay life as it was meant to be played. Although I suppose one could give away all their money. So few people do it though, I think once someone gets that far, it's already too late.

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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by jacob » Sun May 12, 2019 8:51 am

classical_Liberal wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 2:15 am
Like in video games, where folks like us tend to build a character, or ship, or civilization so well that is ruins the rest of the game. So too we can build our financial situation so well, that the end becomes a disappointment because we made it too easy.
Yes, but ... isn't the point mastering the "earning"-game to play a new game? Like, once you climb and reached the top of Mt Everest, you go climb or do something else instead of trying to make the initial climb so hard by walking backwards, naked, w/o oxygen that you'll never get to the peak out of concern that there are no more mountains or no more anything else in the world. That said, I do realize that the shelf with "things to do when earning is no longer an issue" is not as prominent and well-stacked as the "things to do for a living"-shelves. Also, the need for money can serve as an external structure insofar that is required, but so can other things.

Stahlmann
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by Stahlmann » Sun May 12, 2019 10:00 am

jacob wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:51 am
[...] once you climb and reached the top of Mt Everest, you go climb or do something else instead of trying to make the initial climb so hard by walking backwards, naked, w/o oxygen [...]
In "true" high mountaineering groups you would simply clached for implying that climbing high mountains with oxygen is an achievement. They believe that most of such feats got "pauperized" as too many people got rich and started seeing this as opportunity to "check the limits" (of course with "untold", but paid help of local people (*)+oxygen). This somehow coincides with popularization of triathlon. In both cases we can observe unnecessary deaths (heart failure, deterioration etc).

(*) Interestingly most records don't show local natives who are simply genetically superior in comparison to white poor boys (in this particular task). I know that the former weren't interested in getting no near the top due to religion issues, but they place pretty high in "extreme stats", because of guiding and occasional rescue actions. Also for example, compare shoes of Westerners and local porters :lol:. https://youtu.be/kgaJETjV3to?t=477 (yes, this isn't from summit push, but still can present perspective to #firstworldproblems)

You also gonna get banned if you suggest rest of the "ways" of making hiking more difficult.

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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sun May 12, 2019 1:34 pm

c_L wrote: taking some leadership roles in community activities
I think you will find that this is key.

classical_Liberal wrote:
Like in video games, where folks like us tend to build a character, or ship, or civilization so well that is ruins the rest of the game. So too we can build our financial situation so well, that the end becomes a disappointment because we made it too easy.
jacob wrote:
Yes, but ... isn't the point mastering the "earning"-game to play a new game?
Money will naturally flow towards you any time you do the work that people who have money want you to do, and they are aware of your work. People who do not have money, (whether this is literally, subjectively, or relatively true), will send other stuff your way when you do the work they want you to do, and they are aware of your work.

So, if/when you construct the landscape of your domain in such a way that you no longer need to do the work other people want you to do in order to increase the flow of money into your domain, it may be wise to consider what other flows from other people you may eventually want. Sometimes, if you live in an affluent society, money is one of the easiest flows to create. It is only when you are situated on a perfectly level playing field of peers across your range, as well as your domain, that money will not tend towards flowing at all. However, this is sometimes due to the trivial case where Domain = Range.

classical_Liberal
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by classical_Liberal » Sun May 12, 2019 7:43 pm

jacob wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:51 am
Yes, but ... isn't the point mastering the "earning"-game to play a new game? Like, once you climb and reached the top of Mt Everest, you go climb or do something else instead of trying to make the initial climb so hard by walking backwards, naked, w/o oxygen...
I will admit that I am the type to stop playing a game once I know I can beat it. Actually reaching the end credit scene tends to have very little importance to me. It's the idea that "I've won" which really matters. I enjoy the task/journey of building a strong charater. Once that becomes tedious, and I venture into the main story of the game, only to find I can defeat the most difficult portions easily, I see no reason to finish the game. Restarting and trying to build a strong character in a different way has more appeal. Since financial assets tend to be the ultimate substitution in our world (like games with real world economies in which you can simply "buy" your character to higher levels), the temptation to take the easy path becomes ever-present. Maybe with high levels of discipline or internal motivation this problem is not present? So, I tend to agree with @stahlmann. There are many ways to climb Everest. When paying someone to do most of the heavy lifting is an option, the tendency to take that option is high. Will that person ever know what it's like to really climb?

I do "grok" the idea of playing a different game though. Maybe I just don't need to see the end credits of every game that I play before moving on.
7Wannabe5 wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 1:34 pm
So, if/when you construct the landscape of your domain in such a way that you no longer need to do the work other people want you to do in order to increase the flow of money into your domain, it may be wise to consider what other flows from other people you may eventually want.
I think you are telling me to take the time to deliberately design a social network, in the same way I have taken the time to deliberately design financial flows. This is a great idea, how would you suggest I go about taking inventory on my potential future needs/desires from non-financial yields of said social network?
Seppia wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 3:48 am
Having moved around quite a bit, I would agree that while moving every 3-6 months is a stress, moving every 2-3 years is a life enriching experience
I'd agree with this. Which is why I'm hesitant to buy real estate or truly "plant" anywhere. Which kind-of sucks because in the right location, some low rate leveraged real estate coupled with part-time land lord job would make me FI almost immediately.

I've found new locations tend to bring about the ability to make major changes easier. Probably something to do with the human brain and getting into scripted habits. Which is another problem with moving too much. When you move all the time, moving is no longer a big disruption, hence the advantage of easier habit change is lost.

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