classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Where are you and where are you going?
wolf
Posts: 721
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:09 pm
Location: Germany

Re: classical_Liberal's Journal

Post by wolf » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:22 am

Well done. You have a great momentum! I hope everything will be ok with your GF. I like to follow your journal, because you are a few years ahead of me.

classical_Liberal
Posts: 492
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:05 am

Re: classical_Liberal's Journal

Post by classical_Liberal » Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:20 pm

@Augustus
I just realized i never responded to your comment before, sorry! I did in my head, :lol:

The idea of a corp has crossed my mind. I'm not sure about the housing though, as I wouldn't technically have a primary residence, so I;m not due I could write-off my personal housing expenses (housing would be the big one) as a corporate expense?

In any event, if I begin to broaden my earnings horizon in an ERE Type II situation, it would probably be smart to have liabilities limited on any "side" project income that flows. I may look into this further, how long have you had your corp? Whats your experience with it regarding tax savings vs hassle of accounting ect?

@7WB5
I has not considered Ann Arbor! Probably because of all the negative press re Detroit. How is the cultural aspect of Detroit these days? Do you know how much a studio apmt in a walk-able area of Ann Arbor would cost? I can check out CL and a COL calculator, but since I don't know the area it would be hard to tell.

@MDFire2024
Thanks! I'm probably many years behind though, since I'm getting old an all!

User avatar
Kriegsspiel
Posts: 629
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:05 pm

Re: classical_Liberal's Journal

Post by Kriegsspiel » Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:56 am

I live in Detroit also, I like it. I rent a studio for $730 right by downtown, and don't own a car (Detroit has the most expensive car insurance in the country).

A lot goes on downtown in Campus Martius, lots of free outdoor concerts, beach sand, an ice rink, etc. There are also nice outdoor basketball courts, sand volleyball court, outdoor chess boards around Campus Martius. Detroit's hockey, baseball, and football teams play around downtown, and a new stadium is being built in Midtown for the basketball team. Fowling is a local sport that is kinda like bowling with a football, it's fun.

There are lots of bike lanes going everywhere from downtown, and the new streetcar that goes from the river up through Midtown and New Center. The Amtrak station is in the city and there is a bike-share station near it which you can use to get anywhere you'd want to go. Ann Arbor and Kalamazoo are both college towns on the Wolverine line, which goes from Detroit to Chicago. Toledo is the first Greyhound stop to the south and there is a university there too.

Wayne State is the main university in Detroit, it's the best gym near downtown; you can buy a gym membership for about $30/mo. Campus is right across the street from the main library. I'm writing from campus right now after a workout.

Belle Isle is a nature preserve island on the river within biking distance of downtown, a good place to go fishing or grilling or to lay on the grass and look at clouds. It also has an aquarium where you can look at fish and a big greenhouse where you can look at plants.

classical_Liberal
Posts: 492
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:05 am

Re: classical_Liberal's Journal

Post by classical_Liberal » Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:25 am

@ Kreigsspiel

Thanks for the low-down! I'm going to visit my brother in Milwaukee early November, maybe I'll take a couple days to head over to Detroit and check out the area.

SustainableHappiness
Posts: 207
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:39 pm

Re: classical_Liberal's Journal

Post by SustainableHappiness » Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:06 am

Classical Liberal! I hadn’t read your journal much before, I didn’t realize you were a nurse. Fun Fact my DW is a nurse as well, albeit in a Canadian context which is probably different from an operational perspective than an American nursing context.

Anyways, sounds like you are kicking ass and taking names. Hope your side project ideas are growing and becoming reality. It’s good to see another ERE Type 2-er on here.

dagiffy
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:06 pm

Re: classical_Liberal's Journal

Post by dagiffy » Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:41 pm

Wow. You are way more badassity than I am. Or at least you think through it more. I applaud your courage!

classical_Liberal
Posts: 492
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:05 am

Re: classical_Liberal's Journal

Post by classical_Liberal » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:51 pm

SustainableHappiness wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:06 am
Classical Liberal! I hadn’t read your journal much before, I didn’t realize you were a nurse. Fun Fact my DW is a nurse as well, albeit in a Canadian context which is probably different from an operational perspective than an American nursing context.
@SH Nursing can vary wildly between hospitals and specialty here in the US. Since I've been contract traveling, I'm essentially going the the places with large staffing issues, so I tend walk into the worst & that skews my view point a little. I've been a nurse almost five years now (a long time in a single career for me) and I've come to the relaization; nursing is like alcohol, great fun in moderation, with the right people. However, consume too much or with the wrong people around and you will regret it.

Thanks for the encouragement! I enjoy reading your stuff as well!
dagiffy wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:41 pm
Wow. You are way more badassity than I am. Or at least you think through it more. I applaud your courage!
@dagiffy You're alive!! Great to read some updates from you! I was truly inspired by the volt stories a couple years back when my journey towards ERE was in its infancy. Honestly your journal and that of Herbertderp over on MMM were really instrumental in my change in focus towards ERE as a goal vs the MMM forum model; earn big, save some.

Glad to read you're living with the wife again. It was obviously taking its toll on you being apart. Also glad you got out of oakland, those work stories sounded bad... You were taking almost as much abuse as a nurse :lol:
Last edited by classical_Liberal on Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dagiffy
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:06 pm

Re: classical_Liberal's Journal

Post by dagiffy » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:28 pm

Almost as much as a nurse. Yes. I could avoid my patients if I wanted to...and I wanted to avoid them. The guys were on me because I'd actually look people in the eye and talk with them, and then pretty soon I couldn't get rid of them. The modus operandi is to ignore any human being that isn't on your crew. Any sign of acknowledgment is a sign of weakness, and that's when you get mugged.

I got run out of MMM forums. I made the mistake of going into some political forums where the vicious, childish hate was being spewed all over everything. I thought that was odd, seeing as it was coming from people who in other areas seemed to be rational people. Oh, the rage! So I took one party's nominee out of posts and substituted the other party's nominee (this was before the November election). I didn't copy/paste, I just typed it as though it were my opinion.

It got real vicious real fast. Within a few days I was banned for life with a "YOU ARE BANNED, YOU TRUMP SPAMMING ASSHOLE!!" message. I didn't support Trump at all, just switched names. Ah, well...

But I do have an account over there under a different name. I read in a thread where people were looking for me. One of my "friends" there said that I was banned because I had "lost my temper on a political forum". Ironic. I'm sure everyone has noticed, though, that if you disagree with either leftist or rightwinger opinions publicly, you are dismissed and your motivation chalked up to one of three things: ignorance, anger, or fear. Though there is a 4th one now, that of "hate". This one has rapidly gained popularity, especially since last November.

You couldn't possibly disagree with anyone intellectually or ideologically, right? You couldn't just discuss anything or have a bone of contention or point out silly, emotional "logic" using others' own words with another name attached. So, of the four motivations for my reckless typing, I was assigned "anger". And as an angry, out of control forum user, I was banned (not set to expire, as the message said).

So, I've been quite alive but active under a different name completely. The one who banned me seems to think all of my other posts since then are wonderful, and we have great interaction. I am just careful now to NOT point out that I think rabid, emotional political opinions are silly, at best. Harmful and destructive at worst.

And I moved out of the Volt, looking to sell this vehicle which I think rightly belongs in the Smithsonian.

classical_Liberal
Posts: 492
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:05 am

Re: classical_Liberal's Journal

Post by classical_Liberal » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:53 pm

dagiffy wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:28 pm
It got real vicious real fast. Within a few days I was banned for life with a "YOU ARE BANNED, YOU TRUMP SPAMMING ASSHOLE!!" message. I didn't support Trump at all, just switched names. Ah, well...
Oh man! Not to turn this into a MMM forum bitch session (I will anyway :lol: ), but I agree with your assessment that the political threads over there are VERY emotional and one-sided. Any expression of opposing views are quashed very quickly and viciously by forum members and the mods if you dare to defend your position logically (I'm not a Trump supporter either, but any divergence from coastal liberalism is beat up on). IMO it has also become a much less useful tool for median income or less aspiring FIRE'ees as well. The prevailing mentality has become that of upper 10% income earners spending like they are only top 20% income earners and patting each other on the back for being enlightened.

That being said, there are still a few journals and nonpolitcal threads I follow and have spent a great deal of time contributing to over there. So I mind my own business on those threads and avoid the rest. It's free entertainment and information exchange, so I will not complain about it again after this post. I have had to resist the temptation of directing some folks over here who seem to have the ERE mentality. The two main reason being; I'm not sure if our host here would appreciate it, and I'm selfish in that I don't want this forum to become a victim of it's own popularity like MMM forum. Luckily most over there who know of ERE think we are just extreme wackos, totally missing the point.

dagiffy
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:06 pm

Re: classical_Liberal's Journal

Post by dagiffy » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:18 pm

classical_Liberal wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:53 pm
Luckily most over there who know of ERE think we are just extreme wackos, totally missing the point.
Wackos! I'm not sure if you read my very first posts there when I first discovered there was an antidote to the consumerist lust of the West. I first laid out my situation, and early on my wife wasn't onboard so much. I was counseled to divorce her. Her job for 20 years was declared not a job but a hobby, simply because she made 25k per year doing it. I closed that thread and went to the journals.

I'm still only halfway to retiring dollar-wise, by my own reckoning, but that is if I keep this job. I moved way north on the left coast (much cheaper rent) but make the same wage. I loathe the industry and feel too old to go back to school to retrain, and I can't really quit earning an income or the bills will just drown us. Hard to know what to do, really. Can't see myself going on but the only other option is to give up! That's even worse.

Lots of homeless here, revered by the city council and the state, but still a rough crowd and I am not sure I want to join their crusade for no responsibilities, public sympathy, and social welfare sustenance. Oh, and keeping the cardboard and permanent marker industries going. I guess my situation could be worse: I could have a much suckier job. Or not have one, but I know I could get employed someplace easily. So many Help Wanted signs around here.

I see the MMM people as more of the preppy FIRE people, while over here we are the blue collar DIY people. So far from what I've seen the comments and so forth here are wonderful and show a friendly mob is lurking about.

User avatar
Fish
Posts: 395
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:09 am

Re: classical_Liberal's Journal

Post by Fish » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:40 am

@CL - Responding to this entry: I think we already have the terminology for ERE types 1/2, the first being "FI/RE" and second being "semi-retirement." It seems a sufficient condition for pursuing FI/RE is to possess one or more of the following character traits: extreme, patient, hate work. If you're extreme, you'll get there quickly; if patient, you don't care how fast you get there; if you hate work, full retirement is the goal. Semi-retirement is much less common because it requires that none of the sufficient conditions for FI/RE be met, i.e. not extreme, impatient, and tolerate if not enjoy work.

Nice YMOYL wall chart. I like how the trends on both the spending and passive income curves suggest a crossover point that's not too far off in the future.

classical_Liberal
Posts: 492
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:05 am

Re: classical_Liberal's Journal

Post by classical_Liberal » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:57 pm

Fish wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:40 am
@CL - Responding to this entry: I think we already have the terminology for ERE types 1/2, the first being "FI/RE" and second being "semi-retirement." It seems a sufficient condition for pursuing FI/RE is to possess one or more of the following character traits: extreme, patient, hate work. If you're extreme, you'll get there quickly; if patient, you don't care how fast you get there; if you hate work, full retirement is the goal. Semi-retirement is much less common because it requires that none of the sufficient conditions for FI/RE be met, i.e. not extreme, impatient, and tolerate if not enjoy work.
Stop trying to take away my thunder of originality! :lol: More seriously, I now understanding why, in some of his blog posts from 8-9 years ago, Jacob had to focus on creating definitions of traditionally used words. Semi-RE doesn't really feel like the right term for having a balance of cash inflows/outflows through enjoyable activities with a huge surplus (less than FI) lying in wait... I guess it's as good a term as any.

The other issue also being; how do we define "work". Would I do what I am doing now if it wasn't building up a huge surplus? Absolutely not! I sacrifice too many aspects of my life to maintain the schedule and handle the work load my employers demand. So, in any definition of the word, I am definitely presently working . However, I truly enjoy the core function of nursing. If I were to do the same job, but on my schedule, in a place I want to be, for an amount of time that suits the balance life I want... Now is it "work"?

I suppose the best test is; would I pay to do it? That's also hard to determine because I find it more and more enjoyable to find ways to NOT pay for anything. Additionally, I have found that Chronesthesia, with regards to my predictions for future life satisfaction in varying lifestyles, is often less than accurate. Hence I have to actually "live it" to know the answer to the above question. If I the answer ends up being "yes", I'd pay to do it, then am I RE, but not FI? Lastly, I tend to be a very fickle person regarding what I enjoy to do with my time. What I might "pay to do" in 2019, could end up being drudgery in 2020. In that case, what initially wasn't work, turns into work. Then do I go from RE, to semi-RE even though my daily actives haven't changed at all? ... Who knows?!

Thanks for reading and the encouragement!

dagiffy
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:06 pm

Re: classical_Liberal's Journal

Post by dagiffy » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:10 pm

Why is it that having 5 nurses on the floor is great, but having 1 patient on the floor is an emergency?

classical_Liberal
Posts: 492
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:05 am

Re: classical_Liberal's Journal

Post by classical_Liberal » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:18 pm

:lol: I sense a punchline...

dagiffy
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:06 pm

Re: classical_Liberal's Journal

Post by dagiffy » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:53 am

I used to be that guy that delivered pharmaceutical prescriptions to nursing homes and places like that. I noticed that sometimes they would say they had three nurses on the floor and they were happy about it. But sometimes they would say there was a resident on the floor and then everyone would take off running in a panic. I always wondered why the difference?

User avatar
7Wannabe5
Posts: 4156
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: classical_Liberal's Journal

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:10 am

@Fish: I would note that if you are extreme in your frugality, very impatient and/or highly risk tolerant, with tendency towards being intermittently amused/engaged by paid employment, then it may happen that FU attitude will fill much of the gap of FU money.

dagiffy
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:06 pm

Re: classical_Liberal's Journal

Post by dagiffy » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:49 pm

I want to be the latter. How do I get there from here? Oh, wait, the first part allows you to be there, right?

classical_Liberal
Posts: 492
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:05 am

Re: classical_Liberal's Journal

Post by classical_Liberal » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:05 pm

10/25/2017: A general life update

Work continues to be much more tolerable on night shifts, I’ve actually begun enjoying nursing again by avoiding all the management BS at my current assignment. Generally, when work is better I tend to focus a bit less on ERE goals. However, this time, I’m making some progress. I have been sticking to a much reduced food budget rather easily; focusing more on batch cooking large amounts of staples for refrigeration and separating meal sized meat portions for freezing vs mostly convenience foods previously. Meal prep time has not gone up from the convenience foods. I'm eating healthier and more inexpensively. Personal care items have shifted from target to amazon resulting in about 30% savings. I also committed to only purchasing any non-immediate consumable items (excluding things like food, personal care items, gasoline, ect) on the used market. The effects are exactly as Jacob describes. The used market's inherent inefficiency delays purchases and makes them more difficult, so I’m much more likely to seek alternative solutions (or live without a solution); which often ends up easier than trying to buy a solution used. Obviously, it’s much cheaper if I do end up making the purchase. I still have the goal of 18K total spend for 2018, I think these changes alone, if I continue to follow through, will end up dramatically moving the needle towards that end. Unfortunately, 2017 spending is likely to be an uptick from the 22K in 2016, but I’ll detail all of that in an end of year post.

I took a short road trip with the GF to Duluth, MN recently to enjoy the fall foliage. Unfortunately, I wasn’t the only one with this idea and the area was pretty packed with tourists on both the waterfront downtown and the nearby state park land. The cold weather did, at least, keep most from hiking too far into the superior trail, so only a couple miles upriver from Gooseberry Falls it was deserted and we got some peace. The trees are beautiful this time of year, particularly the maples.

The other positive was no hotel rooms or pay camp sites available, so we parked on the side of the road and slept in the car. I would have never been able to convince the GF to do this otherwise, she’s a bit of a snob in such matters, but she really seemed to get into it once it became a perceived need vs option. Personally, I prefer my car and rest areas cleanups to most other temporary accommodations when on a road trip. At the state park entrance I used the public rest rooms to clean up and brush my teeth before our day of wandering. According to my GF one of my fellow tourists came out of the men’s room complaining that “some guy” is using the restroom like it’s his personal bathroom. The GF had to agree with him about “that guys” rudeness, which pleased me to no end. :D

Regarding the GF, things are going pretty well from a relationship standpoint. She is respecting my need for some personal time. Our time together is good and I’m truly starting to care for/ appreciate her in deeper ways. I still have looming concerns over our long term prospects though. After initially showing excitement in the possibility of saving for some significant time off work to travel together, she seems to have lost interest (more given up that it can be done maybe). She’s in debt thanks to a BMW payment and a decent amount of student loans. Her income is enough that she could eliminate it all in a year and start some serious savings afterwards with only minor changes, but alas, her habits remain horrible.

Prior to our extended weekend road trip I had committed to trying a fast, thanks to conversations in this forum (a separate story, but I went 4 days without issues, a bit of uncomfortable hunger day 2, that was it. Although I’ve been on a warrior diet for nearly a decade, maybe that helped). She managed to eat in a restaurant at least 6 times in 4days! WTF? Anyway, I had little say in our meals since I wasn’t eating. My half of gas for the trip was about $30, plus another $20 for a couple of city-based waterfront activities (haunted boat…wooo). She probably spent more like $300. Amazing how two people can have the exact same experience, but one manages to manufacture 6X the spending. I guess I’ll keep trying to entice her with the emotional arguments about long-term travel, which seems to be a big motivator for her.

I have two weeks off starting at the beginning of November which marks my half-way point of this assignment. The GF is in the middle of her assignment a couple of hours away and cant get time off. So, I’m planning another, longer, solo road trip. Likely to Choco Canyon in NM inspired by Luxagraf's blog. The trip will be duel purpose as I have been meaning to check out some of the SW BLM land so many YouTube van-dwellers and folks like C40 seem to winter at. That life has great appeal to me as a fun way to start a life post FT work. Like I’ve stated before in this journal, I have a hard time envisioning how content I would be in a lifestyle until I spend some time doing it. So, a couple week trip is better than none.

I will try to write down some more general ramblings next month, then have a big end of year financial update the following month.
Last edited by classical_Liberal on Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Fish
Posts: 395
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:09 am

Re: classical_Liberal's Journal

Post by Fish » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:13 am

I think it's apparent to anyone that's tried it, that buying used is harder than buying new, and furthermore it's a skill.

When buying new, you are buying a standardized good, i.e. it is undifferentiated between the multiple sellers offering it (new is new), and the terms of sale are usually completely identical between sellers. It's an immediate transaction and the only differences are price and shipping. Therefore, there are very few degrees of freedom. Search for the best price and you're done. Very easy and only requires the ability to determine the smaller of two numbers and swipe a credit card. Even if you mess up the number comparison you still get the item. :P

For used goods, you also have to deal with the condition of the item, your ability to appraise its quality (e.g. used cars), the seller and their responsiveness and reputation. Price is just one dimension among several (and furthermore it's also often negotiable). Transactions may not be immediate either, I'm thinking of craigslist flakes. :x Fortunately, thrift stores like Goodwill add a lot of convenience to the experience of buying used, and make it nearly as easy as buying new. But the best deals are usually found elsewhere. I like to think that I'm getting a lower price not because I'm getting an inferior or pre-depreciated product, but for the effort that I am putting into the transaction and the risk I am taking. But in reality both are true.

I was also impressed that you chose to start your fast when going on the road trip (where food is more expensive due to being away from home). You get web-of-goals points if that was a deliberate side effect. Also, I wouldn't be too hard on the GF about the eating out, when she was willing to sleep in the car. Are your concerns about long-term prospects mostly financial in nature? If so, I would say that things are going really well. You can always choose to waive that contingency.

classical_Liberal
Posts: 492
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:05 am

Re: classical_Liberal's Journal

Post by classical_Liberal » Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:22 pm

@fish
I've been using thrift stores as my go-to for clothing for quite some time. Other items are really "hit or miss" in them, and you are correct, generally not priced as well as Craig's List or other private listings. Ebay seems to be a good way to get an idea of price for certain items(tech, electronics), others I have to kind-of guess. I have also had to deal with CL flakes, usually for smaller items, larger ticket items people tend to really want to get rid of. So far I haven't gotten any lemons, keep my fingers crossed.

My biggest concern over the GF is financial, but not in the sense that I care how she chooses to spend her money. I know of many good relationships with DINK couples who keep completely separate finances even when living together. I'm more concerned about lifestyle choices available due to financials. We have many of the same lifestyle goals, but she is a good deal younger than me and tends to think shorter term. For example, when I go on my 2 week road trip, she is going to Seattle for a weekend with friends. The cost of her W/E trip could fund a month worth of PNW camping/slow travel. To her this makes sense because, even though she would prefer a month of slow travel, she can't afford to take a month off. I can afford it (so could she if she made better decisions), so where does that put us if I start taking advantage of FU money or FI in the near future? If I only need intermittent income and she can only get a 3 day weekend, how will that play out? Those are the scenarios I worry about for a long-term relationship with her.

Oh... yes I did plan the fast to concide with the road trip to save money on food. :shock: there is hope for me yet! Thanks for reading!

Post Reply