classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Where are you and where are you going?
suomalainen
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by suomalainen » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:56 pm

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:22 am
Maybe we should cut Suo some slack, because 3 boys close in age centered around puberty is not an easy gig for anyone.
Woah, woah, woah, how did I get dragged into this?!

classical_Liberal
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by classical_Liberal » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:05 pm

FBeyer wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:11 am
THIS! A thousand times this! What is this Good Enough thing of which you so casually speak?
It's nice to know I'm not crazy this way. When people suggest "coasting" for a year or two at a job to pad financial assets, I just don't get it. How can you show up for work everyday and not care?

This is also why I'm burnt on nursing. The macro healthcare situation in the US sucks, I deal with it's problems daily without any control over the system. While at the same time, it seems hospitals cut nursing overhead as a first line cost saver, so I basically feel like I'm set up to fail every day that I come in. It takes immense effort, starting from scratch with new patients every day, to try and reach the levels of care I believe the patients deserve ( I usually get there). All the while apathy from administration as best, at worse they create counterproductive situations I have to overcome. It's very draining to fight day in and day out.
Last edited by classical_Liberal on Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

classical_Liberal
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by classical_Liberal » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:07 pm

suomalainen wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:56 pm
Woah, woah, woah, how did I get dragged into this?!
Probably this ;)
suomalainen wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:08 pm
Edit: also, I think @7w5 just hit on you

suomalainen
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by suomalainen » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:17 pm

Ha.

But to answer this:
classical_Liberal wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:05 pm
How can you show up for work everyday and not care?
I give you this:
classical_Liberal wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:05 pm
This is also why I'm burnt on nursing. The macro healthcare situation in the US sucks, I deal with it's problems daily without any control over the system. While at the same time, it seems hospitals cut nursing overhead as a first line cost saver, so I basically feel like I'm set up to fail every day that I come in. It takes immense effort, starting from scratch with new patients every day, to try and reach the levels of care I believe the patients deserve ( I usually get there). All the while apathy from administration as best, at worse they create counterproductive situations I have to overcome. It's very draining to fight day in and day out.
In other words, it's not that you shouldn't care, it's that you pace yourself. It's a marathon, not a sprint, for one. For another, you can't (effectively, over the long term) care more than the system in which you find yourself (unless you have the authority to change the system). Trying to improve a system that doesn't want to be improved is ultimately fruitless and therefore irrational. Therefore, the rational choice is to "care less" meaning to learn to accept "good enough" when you are systemically prevented from bettering the system. Or, as has been noted in these forums before, don't take (emotional) responsibility where you lack authority.

classical_Liberal
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by classical_Liberal » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:41 pm

@suo
Good advice, but still I feel a direct responsibility to the people I care for. Afterall, it's not directly their fault the systems sucks either. wrt the system itself, I've pretty much given up. The only exceptions are certain items that directly impact my ability to deliver care daily. Sometimes I put effort into pushback on those, picking battles I guess.

Augustus
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by Augustus » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:52 pm

classical_Liberal wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:41 pm
Good advice, but still I feel a direct responsibility to the people I care for.
Agree. Talk about "the system" is too abstract. "The system" may suck but the people directly in charge of doing the work decide whether or not the outcome is as good as it can be, or not. A shitty professional doing a shitty job in a nursing or Dr position can kill or maim a lot of people. A good professional will keep those same people alive. The system is irrelevant in that decision.

My wife's friend is a nurse/manager, she told us a story about some idiot nurse flirting with a security guard who heard and turned off an alarm for a patient who stopped breathing, she was literally standing there talking to the guard and letting the patient die. If my wife's friend hadn't walked by that person would be dead. It's mind boggling. The worst: they're unionized and my wife's friend can't fire the nurse!

You almost want to engage in vigilante justice in a case like that, break the ladies legs so she can't kill anyone else.

suomalainen
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by suomalainen » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:23 pm

Well, my comment is deliberately vague and general since I don't know enough about nursing (although my mom was one) to know specifically whether one can do that particular job competently without "getting too involved". In other words, is it possible to do the job competently without burning out? Or is burnout inevitable in the job if done properly? Generally speaking, I would hope it's possible to do any job competently without caring "too much" (i.e., caring/stressing about stuff you can't control in a manner that leads to burnout).

Edit: maybe the distinction I'm trying to draw is one between perfectionism and good enough whereas others appear to be drawing one between perfection and incompetence.

classical_Liberal
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by classical_Liberal » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:37 pm

Augustus wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:52 pm
The system is irrelevant in that decision
I would argue not completely irrelevant. If nurse is weighted down with too many patients or too many BS hospital and regulatory paperwork requirements. This directly results in less effort and concentration on cares.
Augustus wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:52 pm
My wife's friend is a nurse/manager, she told us a story about some idiot nurse flirting with a security guard who heard and turned off an alarm for a patient who stopped breathing
Horrific example obviously. Tangential side note. There are so many alarms in a modern hospital that the higher acuity units literally sound like a casino. There is significant researched being conducted on alarm fatigue. You actually stop hearing them. The research is generally showing that if alarms are set at levels which ignore the more minor or borderline issues, then nurses are more apt to respond quickly. Again, not to excuse the behavior you posted, that is horrific, but this is a system issue. Basically administration uses this to pass the buck to overworked nurses and ask why it took them so long to respond to the 296 alarms that registered during their shift. Of those maybe one was critical and you can't tell the difference. So they don't want less alarms because it allows the buck passing, no matter what research shows.

classical_Liberal
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by classical_Liberal » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:41 pm

suomalainen wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:23 pm
maybe the distinction I'm trying to draw is one between perfectionism and good enough whereas others appear to be drawing one between perfection and incompetence.
I think this is an important point for me. I do suffer from perfectionist behavior.

Augustus
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by Augustus » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:44 am

classical_Liberal wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:37 pm
I would argue not completely irrelevant.
I was talking about this decision:
Augustus wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:52 pm
"The system" may suck but the people directly in charge of doing the work decide whether or not the outcome is as good as it can be, or not.
Humans in groups are always inefficient and annoying, but a professional who cares about the people involved can make good stuff happen regardless. Giving a shit is one of my main judgement criteria for people, people who don't give a shit are usually the worst offenders across the board of inferior service and incompetence. I can put up with mistakes and fatigue, but someone who just plain doesn't give a shit gets my full wrath.

classical_Liberal
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by classical_Liberal » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:40 am

Augustus wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:44 am
who just plain doesn't give a shit gets my full wrath.
You and I would be good friends IRL. :D

FBeyer
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by FBeyer » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:49 am

suomalainen wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:17 pm
...Therefore, the rational choice is to "care less" meaning to learn to accept "good enough" when you are systemically prevented from bettering the system. Or, as has been noted in these forums before, don't take (emotional) responsibility where you lack authority.
Naw. The rational choice is to find those spots where you CAN make a difference and put your efforts and mental energy there instead. If C_L is anything like me, and so far it seems he is frighteningly so, there is no real sustainable way to lower how much we care, only a way to redirect our passion.

Therefore the rational choice is to figure out where it's impossible to change work, where it's possible but difficult to change work (with regards to how you're approaching it currently), and finally where it's possible and likely to make a difference somehow.

First point you ignore completely (trichotomy of control)
The second point you approach with a design thinker's perspective and come up with creative ways to solve.
The third is where you put all your attention in case your do decide to stay with the job.

7Wannabe5
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:37 am

suo wrote:Woah, woah, woah, how did I get dragged into this?!
Oops. Posting from my phone. Meant to be response on your thread re discussion about social support.

Since the EJs with whom I have been in relationship have also often been engineers, I have often ended up in terrible fights with them on occasions I have exhibited the tendency to "not give a damn" about efficiency. For instance, "Yeah, I get that the spray on the dishwasher would be 17.5% more effective if I loaded the dishes at that angle, but I just don't care enough to tune in to that particular task at full power/high alert." Eventually the overbearing manner of an EJ will cause me to full on retreat into INTP from eNTP, because at least I can maintain control over what I am reading, and although it is somewhat boring for an EJ to attempt to herd/guard/direct an individual who is just sitting quietly in a chair, they can't really complain too much.

Augustus
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by Augustus » Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:14 pm

FBeyer wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:49 am
I think suo may have been saying care less about the system, not necessarily the people. Large organizations are practically brainless, and people follow policy by habit/doctrine even if it makes no sense. Focus of care should be on the people you're in contact with, and whether or not they merit it. The "system" is a complex problem humans are not very good at solving. Too many variables, too many different situations, etc.

suomalainen
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by suomalainen » Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:39 pm

I was mostly making a perfectionism point. Along the scale of

incompetent -> bad -> ok -> good -> perfect

I was suggesting that you can be somewhere in the ok/good range and still "care" and still be "competent". Others seemed to take a harder stance that anything less than perfection was unacceptable/not caring/incompetent/whatever. (see, e.g., the comment that you shouldn't rest on your laurels if improvements can be made). As a recovering perfectionist, I know first hand that the building still stands even when you're not holding up the walls with your bare hands.

classical_Liberal
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by classical_Liberal » Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:49 pm

I agree with what @Suo is saying, and I tend to be closer to the perfection side of his likert scale. Point taken.

However, there is also the interaction of my effort in the larger system. While I may not have much control over the system, the requirement from me is much closer to the perfection end as a minimal required effort just for it to function well.

Put another way, "ok" to "good" effort results is bad patient outcomes (not disastrous, just not good) most of the time, but "good+" to "perfection" results in good outcomes most of the time. Obviously my effort level has a significant impact. That being the case, I don't feel "OK" is good enough. This is how the larger system is set up to function, it is highly reliant on my effort. IOW, the wall actually does start to crumble (at least for a few patients I'm responsible for) if I don't do my part to hold it up.

suomalainen
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by suomalainen » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:06 pm

Well that sucks.

classical_Liberal
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by classical_Liberal » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:22 pm

suomalainen wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:06 pm
Well that sucks.
:lol: Still your point holds very well for portions of my job and I really appreciate it. Mainly the parts I really dislike anyway (ie charting, etc). IOW there are areas where I could choose to do only "ok" and get away with it, without directly impacting outcomes. I think it's about time I take advantage of that. :D

2Birds1Stone
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by 2Birds1Stone » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:29 am

Just yesterday we had an important sales leadership meeting where quotas were assigned for 2019. At one point when everyone was balking at the #'s, I almost caught myself blurting out "always give 20%".......don't think anyone else would appreciate Pareto in that crowd.......but Pareto is the saving grace for me. =p

classical_Liberal
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by classical_Liberal » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:57 pm

3/11/2019

History/Story-time:
I’m going to back up a bit and talk about c_L’s childhood (yes, I just referenced myself in the third person).

I grew up in a first tier suburb of a larger Midwest city. My family was middle class, or rather what middle class was in the 1980’s. A family of four, I have one biological brother and parents actually remained together until my early teenage years. We had a small 3 bed, 1 bath rambler with a detached garage in a quiet suburban neighborhood. The basement was partially finished, my guess is around 1100-1200 usable sq feet. The family had two cars, a newer compact and an old beater suburban. My upper middle class friends a block away had a large split level house with 4 beds, an adult AND a kids bathroom. The kids even had their own living room on the lower level. They had TWO newer vehicles and a two car attached garage. This was luxurious. My friends down the street were lower-middle and had only one beater car, a small rambler without a finished basement, the two younger kids had to share a bedroom.

I mention these things because they I noticed them as a child and because they are in stark contrast to the standard middle class lives of today. Mind you, I’m not THAT old! There has been significant lifestyle inflation over the past 30 years.

I was the typical “latch key child” of the 80’s. Late GenX, very independent. Again, for context and contrast to current trends. I was making most my own meals and doing my own laundry by third grade. I joined tons of sports and rode my bike to practices and games. It was a special treat when one of my parents showed up. Mostly kids entertained themselves. During the summer months I was expected to be out of the house in the morning, returning for meals and breaks in the play. I had a really good life. I tend to peg the end of this childhood period at about 12 when my parents began experiencing marital problems and we moved, but that’s for a later story.

Two events stand out at towards the end of this period. The first was the summer before sixth grade, just before I was due to ship off to middle school. My neighborhood friends, brother and I were playing around in my front yard when a group of the “cool” kids from school happened by on their bikes. In the 1980’s cool kids had long hair in spikes, rode trick bikes with pegs or skateboards. The leader of their little pack decided to start hassling my dog on the street, this pissed me off.

I quickly confronted the bullies and was very surprised that I was standing up to them alone. I remember the reaction of my friends. They just stopped and watched, kind of frozen in fear of these guys, not sure what to do. Anyway, the situation progressed. The leader and I ended up screaming, then getting into a protracted wrestling match. Although my friends didn’t help, they didn’t walk away either, and I think this helped in keeping the minions on the side-lines of our fight. The whole fight scene probably only lasted about 10 minutes, we were essentially at a draw and both exhausted, so they just screamed some obscenities at us and went about their business riding/skating down the street. No big deal…

A week later when I started middle school, I found myself in almost all of my classes with these “cool” kids and their leader. All of my friends were in a different class rotation. Suddenly the previous conflict was weighing heavy on my mind! Strangely though, none of them bothered me on that first day. As a matter of fact, on the second day of school the spikey-haired leader starting talking to me and invited me to sit at the cool table for lunch! Over a period of the next few months I became friends with these guys and the pretty girls they hung out with. It was short-lived because my family ended up moving at the end of this school year, but for the whole year I was in the center of the “in crowd”. It felt pretty damned good! I noticed how my confidence boosted in a wide variety of ways, with girls, in athletics, and even in academics. So many important life lessons learned in this experience, many I still hold today.

The improved academics also lead to my second seminal childhood event that year in school, which I will address next time, because I’d like to take a bit of space for the next section in this post.

Life & Such:
Just completed a three week goad trip with the GF along the Gulf coast. Started in San Antonio where we met up with my mom and her husband for a couple of days. I was impressed with the touristy river-walk area, very nicely done. Of course we had to do the Alamo and such as well. The history is interesting anyway. The phrase, “Come and take it” has been added to my vocabulary, which irritates my GF to no end. Then we did a beach run from Corpus Christi, Galveston, into Baton Rouge, then down to Biloxi/Gulfport. Finished off in NOLA for Mardi Gras.
A few Pics:
Imagec_L contemplating semi-ERE

ImageDophin sighting off the pier

Image Ozark Landscape

ImageSpring coming late to the Ozarks

Image This must be the Boglehead chapter of NOLA? :lol:

While sitting on a bench next to the river walk in Baton Rouge a reporter from the local news station came up and asked if I was a huge history buff. I answered “sort-of”, but was confused why he asked. Apparently a replica of the Santa Maria was sailing up the river that evening and stopping near the spot I was sitting. He thought I was waiting for it, and that I had driven a long way to see it from my car’s plates. Well, the reporter didn’t even know the Santa Maria was a Columbus ship, so I impressed him enough that he wanted to interview me, :lol: . We stayed to see the ship sail in, because it was kind-of cool serendipity, but then got the hell out before the reporter could find us again.

Image
Santa Maria

I managed to parley some old hotel points into a free 3 night stay in NOLA for Mardi Gras. Then doubling down on awesomeness, I was able to meet up with @Jin+Guice a couple times. He is even cooler in person than online, which is tough to do! He was also a great host to his city. I have stated this before, I absolutely adore NOLA; it’s one of the few places I could see myself living long term. Thanks for the great time Jin+Guice!

Unfortunately after Mardi Gras a very cold front moved through the entire south, so beach time was over and we headed back north. Went through the Ozarks in Arkansas, still some snow on the ground, but very beautiful. All-in-all it was a good trip. More touristy than I usually take, less car camping as well, but got to experience a big swath of the south I had never really visited before. We got some outdoor time, but not nearly enough. The day after we got back home to the new BFE Midwest city, we got almost a foot of new snow… so sick of it!

I will start the new assignment next week. In the meantime I have a week of downtime. The GF went to Des Moines to see her family, so I’m sucking up some sweet alone time in the new sublet apartment. I feel I got really lucky with this assignment. The hospital I’m working at has some big issues, I’ve worked at it before. However, probably the best unit in the best location (there are several campuses) had I need and I filled it. I guess we’ll see how it goes.

Financial:
One last change to the chart. I decided will NOT adjust the yellow line (traditional RE needs) based on 12 mo rolling unless it increases above the 20k estimated expenses. My rolling 12mo spend is continuing to drop a bit, which is a surprising development. I don’t want to assume I can maintain this at traditional RE age. This is mainly because up until that point, I can always choose to cancel out lifestyle inflation with additional earnings or decide to scale up income for “one-off” specific purposes. Earning decent money post age 63 can be tough in the real world for a variety of reasons. I’ll adjust the other two lines based on 12 mo rolling beginning in June, as that is the earliest execution time for Semi-ERE.

The chart:
Image

I’m going to report the following with the chart as my semi-ERE scorecard going forward.

Semi-ERE Scorecard:
1) Old age retirement bucket 2040+ : 101.3% of minimum present value goal (20K annual spend assumption), assuming 3% real ROI. Below 100% means safety margin is no longer fulfilled.

2) Semi ERE bucket 2020-2039: Years in hopper (12 mo rolling spend): 6.19yrs. Below 2 yrs of savings means I’m in a danger zone and need to generate more income.

3) I’m FI with 100% success, based on historical simulation, if spending is below $11,117 annually.

4) Total asset WR based on 12 mo rolling spend 6.7%.

5) YTD Income $N/A(*) +/- YTD assets change $N/A(*) – YTD spending = Net Worth Change $N/A(*)
*Will begin reporting after stopping full time work.


As always, thanks for reading and any comments.

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