classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Where are you and where are you going?
light_bulb_moment
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by light_bulb_moment » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:15 am

Volunteering? Just thought I'd put that out there...

Loving your journal, by the way. Keep it coming.

Augustus
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by Augustus » Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:16 pm

I'm going to resurrect an old part of your journal, you said previously there are 2 main routes for RN liscensure BSN and associate RN, and that BSN has a better chance of getting picked for PRN roles (i think?) I was wondering what you thought about this BSN degree: https://www.wgu.edu/online-nursing-heal ... html#close

Laughed at? Acceptable? Respectable? Since it's online I could study while doing my other work from home.

Also, is it possible to avoid graveyard when starting out? Assuming that I don't need the money, which I don't since I have my current skill for income. Is it possible to do PRN as a new grad?

Sorry for all the questions, but you've inspired me and now I'm really interested in being a PRN :)

classical_Liberal
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by classical_Liberal » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:51 pm

light_bulb_moment wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:15 am
Volunteering?
I've tried volunteering before. My feelings were mixed. Most local volunteer work requires very monotonous tasks under the supervision of very unorganized people. ie It's like a having bad job.

Sure, "greater good" is being served, but I'm pretty sure If I want to make a difference in the world there are better ways to use my time to contribute. Maybe that makes me sound like a pompous ass? IDK
Augustus wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:16 pm
I'm going to resurrect an old part of your journal...
When it comes to direct patient care nurses, experience will always trump education.

Some hospitals may require BSN's for certain positions as there is an overall push for higher education levels in nursing. This is because research shows it decreases mortality. However, where that BSN comes from is rarely considered for the front-line patient care nurse, as long as it is accredited. Look at NCLEX pass rates, a good school should be at a bare minimum 90%. You don't want to go through all that work to repeatedly fail boards because they didn't prepare you. Otherwise, a pricey school is a waste.

The reason experience trumps education is because nursing is very much a "learn as you go" job. Hospitals invest a metric shit-ton of money training new grad nurses. Some have as long as six months to a year of full time training programs with preceptors. Then after that investment, about half of all new nurses end up not working in patient care, its a hard job to be good at. This is an investment hospitals like to avoid. If you've been a nurse for two years already, it's avoided and they already know they have a "winner".

Nursing is VERY geographically dependent. If your chosen area has a shortage, you'll have much better chance of getting what you want with less education/experience. ie currently in most of CA 2-year new grads are unemployable without experience. That same degree and experience level in much of the Midwest will get you hired in a five minute phone interview, site unseen.

PRN as a new grad is likely not going to happen. If a hospital hires you as a new grad, you have to get trained, that's too expensive and time consuming for a 3-4 shift a month nurse. Straight days with overnight on-call would be possible if you chose a specialty that works mainly days (endo, cath lab, etc), but otherwise unlikely as well. Hospitals tend to give the coveted straight day shifts to the proven core staff members to keep them around.

If you are a bit of a positive outlier (learn quickly on the job, etc) and in a good geographic market. A PRN job would probably be possible after a year of experience.

Feel free to ask more questions if I'm not giving you the info you're looking for. :D

CS
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by CS » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:15 am

Unwillingness to marry means unwillingness to put the relationship above all else. It's a choice. You retain the ability to set your priorities whichever way you want, but will have to accept that you are losing out on some of what a relationship can be. There is a difference.

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Bankai
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by Bankai » Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:26 pm

@ CS - I can't see how an unwillingness to invite the government into your relationship means an unwillingness to put the relationship above all else (although I also can't see why would anyone put the relationship above all else, i.e. own health or life. But that's me, YMMV).

Disclaimer: we're married. We're read 'How I found freedom...' too late.

CS
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by CS » Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:50 am

@Bankai
I wasn't thinking about the government so much as the public commitment, the oftentimes merging of funds (many people) or income (Jacob and his wife - a model I quite like actually). Having been married once, I did like it, didn't do it perfectly and probably won't do it again. I'm too old and have too many things I want to do and cannot foresee finding anyone I like that much (but surprises do happen).

Augustus
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by Augustus » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:09 am

Thank you sir! That gave me a lot to mull over. My two main decision points are can I avoid night shifts, and how quickly can I get to be a PRN. This would be a semi-retirement gig, I'd have FU money, and I've got a family (which means time constraints and my aversion to night shifts), so I don't think I'd have the motivation a single fresh out school person would have. On the other hand, I am genuinely fascinated by the subject, I plan to learn about medicine/healthcare regardless even if it's just for fun, and I genuinely like to help people, it's one of my life goals, so it seems like it would be a good fit if I can swing it.

I've read that you can swing dayshift only if you focus on certain types of jobs, people said that in hospitals it's hard to avoid night shifts, but other types of jobs are day shift only since that's when their hours of operation are ("home health, hospice, hospital case management, doctors offices and community health clinics are easiest to find these day shift positions"). I'm clueless, so my question is, would those types of jobs allow me to get the experience needed to be a PRN? Or do you have to do some kind of specialty nursing only available at a hospital for there to be a good chance of being an in demand PRN? Is there such a thing as a generic doctors office nurse turned PRN, or is there only strong demand for specialized nursing? Nursing specialization honestly hadn't crossed my mind at this point since I'm so new to the concepts, but it makes lots of sense that specialization determines demand, just as in my current industry, you want to be this type or that type of programmer since 80% of total demand is for a handful of skills.

classical_Liberal
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by classical_Liberal » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:41 am

CS wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:15 am
Unwillingness to marry...
I'm assuming you were commenting about my statement in 7WB5's new journal.
classical_Liberal wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:01 pm
Here's how I explain my inherent distaste for marriage to my GF. Marriage would create an artificial barrier to ending our relationship. Huge financial, legal, and lifestyle complications exist should we wish to end it. Without marriage, I wake up every single day and get to choose to stay with you, because I love you and it's what I want, even if we have a tough day. If we are married I would wake up every day and feel forced to stay with you, due to the above mentioned issues. Even on the good days, this would be a splinter in the back of my mind. Eventually, resentment will build and my mind will create unhappiness where, if I felt free to choose, none would otherwise exist.
I'm not sure putting a relationship above all else is a very healthy thing to do. I'm also not sure staying unmarried is preventing a relationship from being all it could be, if the implication is that I would be better in some way.. It would just be different once marriage is in play. Could be good, could be bad. I have no problem with publicly announced social commitment. Permanence is something I have a problem with, see above.
Bankai wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:26 pm
We're read 'How I found freedom...' too late.
Ha! Although Harry Browne's book is a game changer regarding thought processes, I'm not sure his advice on relationships is the best. Human relationships are more than contracts between each other, IMO. Although I dislike the idea of getting governments approval to sanctify a relationship, it's those exact sanctification entanglements that dissuade me from the idea.
Augustus wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:09 am
That gave me a lot to mull over.
Well, here's a little more.

Yes, certain specialties outside of the hospital have better hours. Be forewarned though, the nurse you see at the clinic at your annual physical is probably not a RN, maybe not even an LPN. Unless it's a specialty clinic, there is just no need for RN expertise in those situations. Some RN's take those positions for varying reasons (hours being a big one), but they are paid as LPN's or less.

Specialty clinics, like cardiology, neurology, transplant, internal medicine, etc do have RN's as part of a team. Generally leading a small team of LPN's and CNA's, doing some of the more complex stuff. I really don't know too much about clinic work. Big clinics may have PRN positions, more likely part time with fixed hours though.

Specialization in nursing is the norm. I've learned probably a half dozen, it increases my flexibility in contract work. Although an ER nurse would be initially be lost in the ICU or a med-surg floor, the learning curve is quick. A hospital nurse is a hospital nurse. A clinic nurse or long term care nurse would need to be completely retrained to work in a hospital, higher acuity. The opposite is not as true, more like minor training in processes. Clinic Nurses & LTC deal with a fuck-ton more insurance and paperwork issues. Then there's jobs with very little patient contact like research, informatics, administration, the list goes on, and on

You gotta remember, there's something like 2.2 million RN's in the US. The jobs really vary, I only know hospital stuff well. Hospitals do employ, by far, the largest number of RN's. They are generally the jumping off point for other specializations (ie learn general hospital med-surg, then specialize).

I guess you just have to get an idea of what you really want to do/learn. If it's not hospital, I'm not your best resource, particularly with staffing nuances of different levels of care.

classical_Liberal
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by classical_Liberal » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:07 am

11/16/2018

Time for a quick update.

Financials:
Well, despite maintaining 75%+ SR, I’ve barely made any progress against the market headwinds.
Chart:Image

Still very close to the semi-ERE minimum, but I just can’t quite reach it.

YTD spending is $15,955. Annualized this should put me at just around 18K with a month and a half left. Not sure how this will end up, but I made a decision to donate to Kiva again this year. The donation last year has been panning out as anticipated and I’d like to use these as a mini donation fund for the future when I’m not at such a cash flow advantage. No matter end of year spending, Semi-ERE will remain at an elevated 20K estimated spend rate until I have a year of it under my belt, so the chart lines wont change.

YTD SR: 76.29%

YTD real returns on financial assets: -3.95%

Years saved: 12.2yrs (8.2%WR) with estimate 20K annual spend. 13.7 yrs (7.3% WR) with actual 12mo rolling expenses

Life:
The happiness project has been going well. I’m reasonably content and I really think the eventual semi-ERE will just add to that contentness. My improved mood has me thinking about a bunch of projects I could get started on after a bit of down-time. This is nice, because I think I was on the cusp of depression a few months ago, nothing really sounded fun.

The GF and I are off for the next week. We’re going to celebrate TG with her family, then mine. Doing a road trip to Des Moines IA (her) and then up to Minneapolis MN (mine). My brother actually moved back to Minneapolis from Milwaukee area a couple months ago with his wife. I’m looking forward to seeing them as it’s been almost a year and a half.

My best friend is getting married! This surprised me a bit. I thought he was going to be a lifelong bachelor. He’s been with his GF for two years, she is from Nepal and is running into some visa issues given the political BS lately. So he figured what the hell, he’s in love. There will be a quick ceremony at the courthouse towards the end of the year and he only lives about 200 miles away, so I look forward to being his witness. As couple my friend/fiancé and me/GF get along really well. We are kind of hoping to take a road trip, part of it together, early next year.

I did extend at my current contract. Now here through February 16th , 2019. This will give me a fighting chance to hit semi-ERE financial minimum against the current headwinds. Work has, honestly, been getting shittier. I think the longer I stay somewhere, the more I get upset with the BS. I feel like each new contract has a couple month period of being overwhelmed, a 2-6 months of flow, and then I’m sick of the BS. The last few time I wrote, I was still in relative flow at this hospital, which seemed to last longer than the previous few. Maybe this was because I was relatively new to working charge nurse and I had quite a bit to learn. On average however, flow period has been shortening with each new nursing job. There’s not a lot of healthcare left in me for the short term.

General plan after February, at least for now, is for GF and I to move to the city where friend/finance live and get some contracts. It’s another small Midwestern town of about 250K, slightly larger than present location. I have lived in the downtown area before during the summer and really enjoyed it. The hospital there is a cluster, so not looking forward to that, but I’m still not mentally prepared to turn off cash flow. Maybe a really bad contract experience will push me over the edge?… At least that’s my theory. Maybe I’m just stupid?

Prior to moving, we are taking a month off for a road trip. It’s become a bit of a tradition for me to do this in the late winter/early spring. I’ve been stuck in the Midwest every winter for quite awhile with snow and cold. By mid-February the southern part of the country starts getting nice enough for outdoor activities and I like to jump-start the summer. Rarely do I go into it with plans, just hit the road to good weather and outdoor activities. It’ll be interesting to see how the GF reacts to this, since it’ll be her first time accompanying me.

Not much else to say, end of year update will show some more specific financials, asset allocations, how my “bucket” approach is looking, etc.. I already have a spending goal for 2019, $1250 month or 15K annual. I’d like to itemize my spending for this journal monthly next year. If for nothing else, to get a grasp on it myself. Not that I don’t know what’s going on at the time, but I find it hard to remember at the end of the year why month “X” was more expensive than month “Y”. I think more than I guess after the fact (end of year review of CC statements) is being spent on work related costs and non directly related convenience costs associated with less time. Maybe really focusing on it will help me with some fears regarding the semi-ERE transition. Other goals are still in process.

SustainableHappiness
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by SustainableHappiness » Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:59 am

classical_Liberal wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:07 am
Maybe a really bad contract experience will push me over the edge?… At least that’s my theory. Maybe I’m just stupid?
Kotter's model of change management has create a sense of urgency as the first step. Sounds like you are just following classic practice in a different order (since capital accumulation is a requirement first).

Step 1 - Create a sense of urgency (what you are potentially manufacturing)
Step 2 - Build a core coalition (You)
Step 3 - Form a strategic vision (what you've been doing as your journal progresses)
Step 4 - Get everyone on board (sounds like you've been doing that too)
Step 5 - Remove barriers and reduce friction (this would be your money in da bank)
Step 6 - Generate short term wins (this will be key when you move into Semi-RE)
Step 7 - Sustain acceleration (keep following through physically)
Step 8 - Set the change in stone (keep following through mentally)

Makes sense to me.

You could also check out Bridge's transition model. Talks more to productivity throughout the change. I also like the picture it makes.

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Jin+Guice
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by Jin+Guice » Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:28 pm

I vote again that you should pull the plug and go into Semi-ERE. 75% savings rate means you could get half the salary and still have a a 50% savings rate, so... do it!!!!

2Birds1Stone
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by 2Birds1Stone » Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:11 am

I'm with J+G, after your contract is over in Feb, maybe it's time to give this ERE thing a shot?

Your career makes it easy to jump back in to the working world if things out of your control happen.

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7Wannabe5
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:27 am

I think classical_Liberal's combination of being in a relationship with somebody who is still working full-time and being in a location that is just transitory might make this a difficult time to best appreciate the benefits of semi-ERE. For instance, if he takes a road trip while GF is working, he can't enjoy sex on his road trip, but since he also doesn't own his residence, he also can't amuse himself by building a home-made sauna.

Jason
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by Jason » Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:51 am

@7W5

I'm surprised with both your polyamory and peripateticism you haven't stumbled upon these:

https://custommobilesaunas.com

classical_Liberal
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by classical_Liberal » Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:12 pm

Thanks for the responses!
SustainableHappiness wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:59 am
Kotter's model of change management ...
I've never run across this information before. That is kind of interesting in itself, because I like to learn varying models before making decisions or life changes, but I've never actually looked at more general models for change itself :?:

As far as working partially backwards, that doesn't surprise me. My natural inclinations are often backwards. :lol: Creating a sense of urgency makes natural sense, the key word being creating. In major past decisions I've usually left a situation until it naturally became urgent, I don't want to wait that long this time.

I would tend to think of this as: I have more control over rational brain, but less so emotional brain (limbic). So, if I put myself in a situation (using rational mind) in which emotions start to agree with rational mind, they can align. I guess this is one reason why the "know thyself" advice is so prevalent throughout good literature. Knowing what my visceral response will be in certain situations is helpful.
Jin+Guice wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:28 pm
I vote again that you should pull the plug and go into Semi-ERE.
2Birds1Stone wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:11 am
I'm with J+G
Thanks guys. That's probably exactly what I would advise both of you, if you were in my situation.

A few rational reasons why I probably will not:

1) Market conditions, we could talk ad nauseam about this. Bottom line, even if the potential of future returns increases as inflated assets drop, a number is still a number and I haven't even hit my bare minimum yet. It's a goal unfinished and I had always hoped I'd be a bit higher than bare minimum.

2) This
7Wannabe5 wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:27 am
I think classical_Liberal's combination of being in a relationship with somebody who is still working full-time and being in a location that is just transitory might make this a difficult time to best appreciate the benefits of semi-ERE.
Per usual, 7WB5 is rationally seeing and articulating an important a point I have only "felt". Although going without sex a few weeks on a road trip isn't a primary concern, me going on road trips too frequently without her is a relationship concern. Also, I have zero intentions of being a house-husband in suburban hell. So I think, if I am going to work (which I will have to do at points through the rest of my life with this plan), doing it while she has to work full-time as well is a good time for it. Even if it means not doing it exactly how I want.

One thing i didn't mention in my update is that GF actually had me create excel spreadsheets for her personal savings plan. Her situation will look much better in about 12 months. At that point a more intermittent work schedule would be a potential for her as well. Although not quite as intermittent as mine will be, definitely less potential for friction.

3) Half time with half pay really isn't realistic. Travel nursing is getting saturated and contract pay has dropped by about 25% across the board in the past 12-18 months. I have not yet been impacted by this because I'm contracted through a large hospital chain at set rates. So, if I quit my F.T. contract work, I'd likely see a 25% pay drop through agency travel. Couple this with walking into some serious clusters. At least within the system I work, I know what to expect. IOW, half time contract work would only be about 40% pay and most likely a much shittier work experience.

The other option is PRN work at a specific hospital. This would require a good work experience hospital and semi-permanent residence in a place I want to live. I haven't found that combo yet. Also, hourly pay rate would probably drop further, so then half time work would only net about 30-35% of current income. Admittedly, I would still maintain a seriously positive savings rate, even in that situation.

At this point, I think the only way to hold out future hope of P.T. work in the hospital setting is a long break from it. I'm too close to burn out. So when semi-ERE is initiated, there will be no plans for nursing in the first 6-12 months.

4) Fear. Although this is irrational in itself. I think it's rational to figure out some ways of coping with all the "what if's", and have back up's in place. At least for some of the major ones. Even if it's only to keep my emotions aligned with the rational.

Feel free to discredit the statements above! I'm trying to that myself.
Jason wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:51 am
https://custommobilesaunas.com
Note to self, check weight of mobile saunas and ensure any future adventure-vehicle has the towing capacity. No one can live without one of those!
Last edited by classical_Liberal on Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

suomalainen
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by suomalainen » Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:06 pm

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:27 am
he also can't amuse himself by building a home-made sauna.
I have done this. Building a thing is more fun than having a thing. Haven't used it in like 6 years. And I'm a Finn!

Jason
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by Jason » Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:11 am

When I was a child, I always wanted my parents to put an aquarium underneath the car. I don't mean like a gold fish bowl but a complete Sea World type of thing so I could go there when I got bored sitting in the backseat listening to my douchebag brother whine on for hours. I don't know why I thought that as I never really cared for water or what lives in water. As I've matured, I've moved onto the sauna concept. If they have these self driving cars, why can't you sit in a sauna during the drive.

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Jin+Guice
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by Jin+Guice » Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:43 pm

@c_L:

1) Market conditions are why you should pull the trigger now. If your target were stationary I could see following through (though I still believe this is a mistake). I do this too. However, you're playing a game wear the odds are currently stacked against you. What if there is a 25% market crash before you hit your goal? What if it happens right after you hit your goal? Many people would argue that it's much better to have a fulltime job when the shit hits the fan. I argue the opposite, it's much better to have the lifestyle you want when shit hits the fan. Otherwise you're just going to get trapped for another 5 years.

2) I think this is a bad reason, but I don't place much value on romantic relationships. Lovers are replaceable. It sounds like you've got a good thing going here, but why does your gf need to ERE for you to ERE? That's a major red flag to me. It's good that you are addressing it, having more time off than a romantic partner is going to create conflict, but that conflict shouldn't be insurmountable.

3) Numbers and math. I like them too, but don't let them fool you. $x doesn't make you free. You make you free. Money is just one of the tools you can use.

I face the opposite problem, I am PRN. I could retire faster if I worked parttime. If I could go fulltime without increasing expenditures, holding onto my side income and still avoiding all but SS taxes (unlikely, but if it was my only goal not totally impossible) I could probably be retired in 3 years. However, I'm not often tempted by this. The option of fulltime work always exists if I really want out, for me that's enough.

I also work at a garbage hospital. I've never really worked at another but they treat everyone like shit and we are delayed all the time because they won't hire people to clean the surgical instruments properly. It doesn't bother me that much because I don't spend most of my time working. I don't know how anyone does it for 40+ hours a week without a serious heroin addiction.

4) This is the most concerning obstacle. I think you have 1 more year syndrome. Any of the 3 reasons above are fine reasons to keep going, but how confident are you that any of these will actually be solved in 1 year? 2 years? 5?

I've burned out before and I don't recommend it. Safer to decrease savings rate and save your sanity, no?

I also know you have somewhat high expenses (only in ERE world). I don't recall what expenditure level your expenses are based on but high expenditures give you somewhat of a buffer if the rug is pulled out from under you. They also give you a way to expediate actual retirement should you find yourself needing it.

2Birds1Stone
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by 2Birds1Stone » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:39 pm

J+G dropping knowledge bombs over here, and in the meantime...I've reread your entire thread. What a ride over the past year and a half!

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7Wannabe5
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:15 am

If you don't have a resource base to develop (for instance, homestead) and you don't have the freedom to move around, sometimes all you are left with the ability to develop is your physiology and your knowledge-base. So, it's not much different than being somebody in prison who can only focus on bodybuilding and reading about the law in the penitentiary library.

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