classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Where are you and where are you going?
7Wannabe5
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Naah, I don't date where I debate. However, I have dated a few ENTJs in my time, and the vice of the ENTJ is Anger, so there is usually some terrible story about something like getting an arm shot off in a rumble while drunk.

Clarice
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by Clarice »

@7Wb5:
Huh! I am not arguing with your real life experience, but according to analytical psychology, ENTJ's vice is avarice, not anger. It is consistent with my personal experience with ENTJs, though I've dealt with women only, never with men. :geek: :geek: :geek:

7Wannabe5
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@Clarice:

I am sure you are right. I was translating through assignment on the Enneagram. ENTJ = Type 8 = The Leader ->Vice = Anger/Power. On the Enneagram the Scientist has the vice of Greed and the Enthusiast has the vice of Gluttony, so an Enthusiast like me is supposed to move towards the functioning of the Scientist in order to cut gluttony with greed (keep the cookies in the cookie jar.) I think the Leader is supposed to move towards the Helper which would explain c_Ls new career in nursing towards personal growth.

classical_Liberal
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by classical_Liberal »

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Clarice
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by Clarice »

@classical_Liberal:
If you are interested in controlling your anger listen to this bit from 0:47 to 2:30. Personally, I've found this train of thought very helpful in general and in dealing with anger induced by my family in particular:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCS6t6NUAGQ

What do you think?

classical_Liberal
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by classical_Liberal »

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Mister Imperceptible
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

classical_Liberal wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:58 pm
Regarding anger, There was a recent thread with a personality test, I'm too lazy to find it. I did not post my results because i was a bit embarrassed. The neuroticism component had a subcategory of anger, I scored 94, Yikes!

.....

I will say, I somewhat enjoy being an angry person because, if properly utilized, it can be a VERY motivating emotion. The issue is controlling anger.
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=9976

Very interested in your results, classical_Liberal :twisted:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=esEcwAWi6dk

classical_Liberal
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by classical_Liberal »

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FBeyer
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by FBeyer »

classical_Liberal wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:25 pm
... But rest on laurels when a situation can be improved, just be be less angry or more relaxed, NO WAY!
THIS! A thousand times this! What is this Good Enough thing of which you so casually speak?

It's comforting in a way to read a claim that ENTJ are 'supposed' to move towards helping others. 'makes my recent life choices much less fraught with doubt.

EDIT: Also anger at 97. You're doing alright. Don't worry :D viewtopic.php?f=26&t=9976#p168765

7Wannabe5
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

For better or worse, my generalized “tribe” has always been humans with IQs over 130 who are somewhat cuckoo-bananas or eccentric. Since my family of origin and my own children mostly fit this description, my main problem is dealing with the problems that result when the cuckoo- bananas gets too out of control.

Maybe we should cut Suo some slack, because 3 boys close in age centered around puberty is not an easy gig for anyone.

suomalainen
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by suomalainen »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:22 am
Maybe we should cut Suo some slack, because 3 boys close in age centered around puberty is not an easy gig for anyone.
Woah, woah, woah, how did I get dragged into this?!

classical_Liberal
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by classical_Liberal »

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classical_Liberal
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by classical_Liberal »

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suomalainen
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by suomalainen »

Ha.

But to answer this:
classical_Liberal wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:05 pm
How can you show up for work everyday and not care?
I give you this:
classical_Liberal wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:05 pm
This is also why I'm burnt on nursing. The macro healthcare situation in the US sucks, I deal with it's problems daily without any control over the system. While at the same time, it seems hospitals cut nursing overhead as a first line cost saver, so I basically feel like I'm set up to fail every day that I come in. It takes immense effort, starting from scratch with new patients every day, to try and reach the levels of care I believe the patients deserve ( I usually get there). All the while apathy from administration as best, at worse they create counterproductive situations I have to overcome. It's very draining to fight day in and day out.
In other words, it's not that you shouldn't care, it's that you pace yourself. It's a marathon, not a sprint, for one. For another, you can't (effectively, over the long term) care more than the system in which you find yourself (unless you have the authority to change the system). Trying to improve a system that doesn't want to be improved is ultimately fruitless and therefore irrational. Therefore, the rational choice is to "care less" meaning to learn to accept "good enough" when you are systemically prevented from bettering the system. Or, as has been noted in these forums before, don't take (emotional) responsibility where you lack authority.

classical_Liberal
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by classical_Liberal »

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suomalainen
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by suomalainen »

Well, my comment is deliberately vague and general since I don't know enough about nursing (although my mom was one) to know specifically whether one can do that particular job competently without "getting too involved". In other words, is it possible to do the job competently without burning out? Or is burnout inevitable in the job if done properly? Generally speaking, I would hope it's possible to do any job competently without caring "too much" (i.e., caring/stressing about stuff you can't control in a manner that leads to burnout).

Edit: maybe the distinction I'm trying to draw is one between perfectionism and good enough whereas others appear to be drawing one between perfection and incompetence.

classical_Liberal
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by classical_Liberal »

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classical_Liberal
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by classical_Liberal »

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classical_Liberal
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by classical_Liberal »

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FBeyer
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Re: classical_Liberal's Semi-ERE

Post by FBeyer »

suomalainen wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:17 pm
...Therefore, the rational choice is to "care less" meaning to learn to accept "good enough" when you are systemically prevented from bettering the system. Or, as has been noted in these forums before, don't take (emotional) responsibility where you lack authority.
Naw. The rational choice is to find those spots where you CAN make a difference and put your efforts and mental energy there instead. If C_L is anything like me, and so far it seems he is frighteningly so, there is no real sustainable way to lower how much we care, only a way to redirect our passion.

Therefore the rational choice is to figure out where it's impossible to change work, where it's possible but difficult to change work (with regards to how you're approaching it currently), and finally where it's possible and likely to make a difference somehow.

First point you ignore completely (trichotomy of control)
The second point you approach with a design thinker's perspective and come up with creative ways to solve.
The third is where you put all your attention in case your do decide to stay with the job.

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