m741's ERE Journal

Where are you and where are you going?
sshawnn
Posts: 458
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:17 pm

Post by sshawnn »

Vigorous exercise for > 30 minutes a day @ 60-80% of your max heart rate will almost definitely change your mood and get you feeling better. You must find time in your already busy day to take care of your body. You will likely never feel like exercising at the end of the day so try and start your day with it. You are on a great track. Keep up the good work!


User avatar
Chris
Posts: 773
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:44 pm

Post by Chris »

m741,
We had an NYC-area ERE meetup last fall. Sounds like what you're describing would be a good conversation to have at the next meetup. There are certainly others in a similar position (SW dev here as well). You could manage to be awake for a few hours during some weekend this fall, right? (-:


CryingInThePool
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:32 am

Post by CryingInThePool »

+1 “ It’s just that 4 years feels like an awful long time to defer life. “

Like dragoncar I recognize so much of what I’m feeling and living thru with this post that it’s scary.
It might be optimistic to assume that the last year before ERE is like the last week of school and will just fly by with all the things you’ll never do again (performance review, Q4, etc) so for me it’s years 2-4 that I’m currently in and dreading. Obviously those years = extreme part of ERE but it’s not the effort of saving that is throwing me off if it’s the time at work itself.
Like I’ve come to the realization that I’m wasting my life (thank you ERE and YMoYL) but now I’m stuck continuing that waste for 3-4 more years. That’s a much better position to be in than +25 years but it still makes heading out the door to the office a huge mental hurdle.
Once I figured out my real income from YMoYL I can’t unlearn that… What if I get hit by a bus tomorrow? This new awareness is almost paralyzing and like m741 I’m wondering if there isn’t some inherent depression state that must be worked through with this size of life shift.
From the highs of realization and getting started to the lows of maintenance… I guess I'll start with buying some vitamin D.


LiquidSapphire
Posts: 510
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:40 pm

Post by LiquidSapphire »

@m741:

I don't have much helpful advice to impart other than to say that I totally understand what you're saying and in many ways feel exactly the same as you. I too also have close to Jacob's level of investments, but feel like I would be such a fool to quit such a cushy job. If I decide a couple years from now it was a mistake, it would be really tough to get into the work again at this level, which would mean huge pay cut. I could change jobs, but what if I hate those just as much as the one I have now, yet now all of a sudden I'm making 1/2 to 1/3 as much as I have now? So I completely relate to your sentiment that I wish I had a crappy job that paid nothing, the choice to quit would be so much easier. I've also calculated that I am about 4 years out and it just seems sooooo farrrr away....
At least every other day I fantasize about coming up with a passive or semi-passive income stream I can stand just to speed it up. I also have thoughts like, "Life is too short to spend 9+ hours a day on something I can't stand, Money isn't everything, right???" thoughts. Sometimes I just wish that I would be laid off or fired, it would put me out of my misery.
In the past two weeks, the anxiety I have about just coming to work to do my normal job has been invading my sleep/dreams.
I don't know when the breaking point is, but just wanted to say I get what you're saying.


m741
Posts: 1187
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:31 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Post by m741 »

Everyone -
Thanks for the feedback. It's good to know that at least some other people on the forum are in a similar situation. Seems like we're also all looking at the same timeframe, too: an objectively reasonable amount of time until FI, that's just a bit overwhelming to think about right now. If I had a timeline of 2 years and knew with certainty that I'd be done afterwards, that wouldn't be bad. But when I look at 4-5 years, and that timeframe is uncertain... that's equivalent to the entire time I was in college, or to as long as I've already been working.
I'd definitely participate in an NYC meetup if we held one, although I'm busy a few weekends in October. I guess there's at least 3 of us in NYC. (Chris, Zev, myself, probably 2-3 others).


akratic
Posts: 681
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:18 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Post by akratic »

@m741, you should find a new job. Keep this job only until you have a signed offer from somewhere else.
Demand for software engineers is sky high, especially those with trading experience. You should be able to find an 8 hour a day job fairly easily! Have you looked?
Even if your new job only pays 80% of what you currently make it's still way worth it.


m741
Posts: 1187
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:31 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Post by m741 »

@akratic - do you mean another job programming in the financial industry? My impression is that the minimum hours are 10/day. Or did you mean programming generally? Even then I thought that 8-hour days were fairly rare.
Either way, it's something I'll definitely consider. Maybe put a 2-year cap on my current job, and then work elsewhere for another 2-3 years in a more casual environment. I kinda like that plan :).


akratic
Posts: 681
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:18 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Post by akratic »

Either way. Consider infrastructure if you want to stay in trading but have better hours. You could also try just leaving your current job after 8 hours and seeing what happens. You have a lot of power as an engineer.
Seriously we are so lucky to be engineers right now. For example, one of my friends just got hired as an engineer at Google and his salary went from $51.5k/yr at his current job to $135k/yr at Google in San Francisco. And there are like 10,000s software engineers at Google, it's not exactly exclusive company anymore.
My first programming job people did 8-10 hours, and I did 7-8, and it was fine, I got a lot done when I was there and didn't get much push back. My finance job can be more than 8, but that's more up to me, because I feel incentivized to push. In a big company like Google there'd be no real reason to push, because you don't need the yearly raises, given that you won't work for that long.
You lucked out to be a software engineer right now. Take advantage of it!


palmera
Posts: 267
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:16 pm
Contact:

Post by palmera »

"This new awareness is almost paralyzing and like m741 I’m wondering if there isn’t some inherent depression state that must be worked through with this size of life shift." -CryingInThePool
"In the past two weeks, the anxiety I have about just coming to work to do my normal job has been invading my sleep/dreams." -LiquidSapphire
Yes and YES! Nice to hear I'm not alone. I have a good three years left. I actually don't know how I am going to get through this year, let alone the next three years. Sometimes I sit at my desk and I am literally unable to do a simple task, like respond to an email.
We've taken the red pill - awesome, we're taking steps to become FI - awesome, but until then, how to cope?! I'm thinking eating super healthy and daily exercise will help, but it's so hard to find the motivation to even start.
m741 sorry to hijack your journal. Perhaps this topic deserves its own thread.


m741
Posts: 1187
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:31 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Post by m741 »

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. Right now I'm thinking of doing the following:

Bought some Vitamin D. Will be taking that (400 IU/day). Apparently there's also Vitamin D in milk, so I'll be trying to drink a cup of milk each day as well (I can get it free at work). Even if it makes me feel just 5-10% more energetic, that would be huge for $1-2/month
I'll be trying to cut down on processed carbs. I've noticed that when eating processed carbs I feel even more sluggish.
Coincidentally I discovered yesterday that my landlady intends to sell the apartment I'm currently renting (putting it on the market in 6 months). I looked around, and if I move to Brooklyn, it appears that apartments comparable to my own are about 1200/month. I believe I could find one for 1100/month. Also, although my area is very nice, I think that there is more to do in Brooklyn. That saves me 300/month which would be a big win. Something to put on the agenda for next year.
As part of this hypothetical future move, and because I've been flipping through this part of the ERE book, I'll be looking to really cut down on the amount of books/stuff I own. Also seriously considering going hardcore on getting rid of old electronics and other junk I've held onto 'just because'. This will cut down on a psychic energy drain.
Will be looking to start exercising again. That's a chicken/egg problem - not enough energy/time to work out, but need to work out to get energy.
Not immediately actionable from my perspective, but trimming hours and looking for a 'transition' job as I approach FI is something I'd like to keep in mind. Just knowing that it's an option makes me feel better.
At least part of the problem is that I watch too much television (torrents/DVDs/hulu). I'll be trying to cut back on that and spend more time reading. When reading I tend to fall asleep earlier, which is good during the week especially.


Dragline
Posts: 4436
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:50 am

Post by Dragline »

fyi, you'll probably need at least 1000 I.U. of vitamin D per day to notice anything. I usually get the 5000 I.U. tabs from vitamin shoppe -- they cost 8 cents each in a 120 tab bottle. But I'm about twice your age and probably more decrepit.
Good luck with everything. The very fact you have a plan and are doing something will probably make a difference.


m741
Posts: 1187
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:31 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Post by m741 »

@bigato: I'm flattered, but the real struggle for me is following through. At least with basic stuff like getting rid of junk and taking pills, this is not so difficult. For exercise... it's a challenge.
As suggested, I am upping Vitamin D intake to 800 IU in pills + 200 IU from milk, spread out over the course of the day.


dragoncar
Posts: 1316
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:17 pm

Post by dragoncar »

I'm not sure 1000 IU will do it if you spend the entire day inside (according to recent researches). There's a nifty calculator here: http://www.vitamind3-cholecalciferol.co ... imator.xls
Now, I don't really know who runs this site. The illuminati? The all-powerful Vitamin D-industrial complex? Who knows? But if you already accept that you may be deficient, it seems like a good place to start.


Dragline
Posts: 4436
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:50 am

Post by Dragline »

All I would say is that don't view the Vitamin D experiment as a failure or success until you've really gone whole hog on it. When I'm not getting sun I just take the 5000 IU pill and forget about it, because its super cheap and I know that's definitely more than I need. I also eat a lot of sardines (high in D) mostly for Omega-3 fatty acids, but that's an acquired taste for most people.


Fiddle
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:14 pm

Post by Fiddle »

Hi m741,
when i dont feel like exercising i lower my expectation on myself on what i have to do that day to be satisfied with my exercise achievement that day. This helps take pressure off and stops my mind thinking negatively about the exercise. Once outdoors and exercising i find i am often comfortable to continue for longer than i initially decided i would do. That's how i get started when i dont feel like exercising, i commit in my mind to do 'something'- just a short run or cycle, to raise a sweat.
I personally consider exercise in the gym inferior to exercise outdoors. I gain a sense of wellbeing when i exercise outdoors, preferable close to nature,in a park or where ever, which i never experience in the gym.


LiquidSapphire
Posts: 510
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:40 pm

Post by LiquidSapphire »

I second the "lower your expectations" bit on exercise. The important part is making it a part of your life, and establishing the habit. I've heard the following "hacks" that have worked for various people:
1) Tell yourself "I only have to do 5 minutes, then I can quit if I want to." Usually, after 5 min, most people don't quit.

2) "I only have to put my shoes on, go outside, and close my front door." Usually by then people do what they had planned.

3) Get a buddy. Worked for me. I have a couple of walking buddies at work. On days I wouldn't have pushed myself to go out walking for lunch time, they call or show up wondering if we're going. I want to encourage the relationship and encouragement so I rarely turn them down. Works the other way too, days I'm itching to go, they'll go with me, even if the weather sucks, etc.


sshawnn
Posts: 458
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:17 pm

Post by sshawnn »

Cyber peer pressure.....
A friend a work who knows how I tick asks me almost every morning, "Did you exercise this morning?" Its amazing how motivating that can be. I am comfortable enough with her to tell her to eff off if needed if I missed a workout but I find myself telling her about a work out if she fails to ask. Another powerful motivator is a work out partner. If someone is standing there waiting on you at 5am and you no show..........
Anyway. M741, did you exercise today?


m741
Posts: 1187
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:31 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Post by m741 »

@sshawn: No, I didn't... and I skipped today as well. But I have been taking my vitamins and will be exercising tomorrow.
I realized a few things today that also make me feel a bit better:
1. My mood definitely follows a cycle. I feel pretty bad from Sunday afternoon (realizing I wasted a weekend/must return to work) through Tuesday. But then the following weekend comes into view and I feel better. I don't know how to remediate this yet.
2. Another option besides working elsewhere is transferring within my company - it's the equivalent of a new job, but less hassle and I'd keep the same pay grade. Plus there are options to transfer to Europe/Asia, which could be really exciting.
3. Another big psychological lever is in how I frame things. The way I've been framing my current job is: "I am trading 6-7 of the best (healthiest) years of my life for ~500k". I still think that's roughly accurate. But I can also plan to come out of those 6 years with more than just the money, and it's my duty when I return home from work to further my skills in various areas. In other words, I can plan to get really good at 3-4 things that will serve me well in retirement, in addition to accumulating that much money.


palmera
Posts: 267
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:16 pm
Contact:

Post by palmera »

"3. Another big psychological lever is in how I frame things. The way I've been framing my current job is: "I am trading 6-7 of the best (healthiest) years of my life for ~500k". I still think that's roughly accurate. But I can also plan to come out of those 6 years with more than just the money, and it's my duty when I return home from work to further my skills in various areas. In other words, I can plan to get really good at 3-4 things that will serve me well in retirement, in addition to accumulating that much money." -m741
whoa. thanks for the "aha" moment!


Post Reply