Five Years, Lord Willing

Where are you and where are you going?
Jason
Posts: 1413
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:37 am

Re: Five Years, Lord Willing

Post by Jason » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:52 am

I recently read that David Cassidy died with 150K net worth. The headline was that he purposely omitted his daughter from his will but the real story was that he only had a buck and a half. Nothing wrong with that, except if you became he biggest US pop star once Elvis went into his final, Hindenburg stage.

Jimmy The Greek said that a man has not lived until he was blown through three fortunes. Momentarily putting aside the fact that such words of wisdom were espoused by a racist, degenerate gambler, in my lifetime I have only met one person who met that criteria. A music executive who lost a national recognizable music company from gambling on horses, rebuilt it but married a WW II singing sensation who turned out to be a lesbian and then took all his money to keep it quiet (until later when no one cared about her anymore) and then again due to mismanagement. I knew him when he was older and grandfatherly and didn't have the heart to ask him if he thought Muffeater running second at Pimlico was a good bet.

It appears that David Cassdy got 2/3's of the way there. First, not surprisingly, by unscrupulous money managers (the risk of making millions when you're barely out of high school) and then later through divorce, which Robin Williams described as "having your genitals ripped out through your wallet." Danny Bonaduce called Cassidy's life a tragedy. When your fictional red headed tv brother who was later arrested for beating up a prostitute after discovering he/she was a transvestite says that about you, it's pretty bleak. At least he later developed dementia and didn't have to remember any of it.

The loss of the second fortune was due to accumulation of possessions. Namely houses, boats, cars and that type of stuff. People don't learn. Also, if I was young and ERE, I would not get married unless I met the other person at a garage sale, a Salvation Army store, or some other similar type of venue.

It amazes me how often these ridiculously wealthy people buy and sell their houses to each other. I was reading about the bassist John Entwistle who like all those British rock stars bought a castle. When I I googled it, instead of being impressed by it I thought "Damn, that place must be really drafty." And then thinking about who in their right mind would buy it after he blew up his heart after a late middle aged cocaine bender. It's taken me a long time not to be impressed by that shit. I can't say it's completely weeded out, but at least their is a counter-narrative running when I'm thinking about it.

jacob
Site Admin
Posts: 10346
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm
Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 73
Contact:

Re: Five Years, Lord Willing

Post by jacob » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:05 am

Jason wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:04 am
Do you need to be a physicist to understand and commits to ERE? No, thank God. But it would help to think like one or take time to understand how they think.
viewtopic.php?t=4769

Maybe it's better to say that it helped to be a physicist when creating ERE ("creating")(*) or maybe that the way it was put together and described shows it was done by a physicist.

In terms of applying it ("computing", "coordinating"), I don't think a [mental] physics-module required.

(*) "c"-terms from chapter 4 or 5, IIRC?

Jason
Posts: 1413
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:37 am

Re: Five Years, Lord Willing

Post by Jason » Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:30 am

Today we woke up to $400K not including home because as those wiser than myself pointed out who cares about that right now. It's tenuous, but at least for the right now, real. It was a goal. And it feels good. Like a small "fu". Not a big, double middle finger, then grabbing my crotch and telling you what you should do to your mother capitalized "FU". But a little one. Like I'm walking away from you because you are boring the everlasting shit out of me "fu" and I'm tired of people boring the everlasting shit out of me. It's a I can take it or leave it "fu".

As I am past the possibility of ERE, my real fear was just retirement in general. That I would be able to. I have nothing against older people stocking shelves at the super market as well as they don't have to. I could see myself doing it actually. As long as I don't have to. Super markets nowadays seem every eventful with all their little sushi bars and smoothie counters. Well, at this point, retirement is guaranteed. Well, as much as anything can be guaranteed.

The thing I realize, is that we don't need a million. Once past 700K we probably won't spend it down and we will end up giving it to something or someone completely unrelated to me because everyone related to me has already been given a premature capitalized "FU" including my own mother which raised some eyebrows due partially to the illogic of the capitalized "FU" when given to one's own mother.

Also, based on conservative rate of returns, the difference between saving $1000.00 a month, my current savings goal, as opposed to $500.00 doesn't seem to be worth it. Now its good insurance, but its future value is money we won't need. That's the benefit of planning. There is an actual number not a hypothetical number.

classical_Liberal
Posts: 425
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:05 am

Re: Five Years, Lord Willing

Post by classical_Liberal » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:09 am

Your writings continue to entertain, congrats on the milestone!
Jason wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:30 am
Also, based on conservative rate of returns, the difference between saving $1000.00 a month, my current savings goal, as opposed to $500.00 doesn't seem to be worth it. Now its good insurance, but its future value is money we won't need. That's the benefit of planning. There is an actual number not a hypothetical number.
I believe the point in which the marginal utility of extra dollars saved drops to "giving it away to someone or something totally unrelated to me", is my new, personal definition of FU money.

Jason
Posts: 1413
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:37 am

Re: Five Years, Lord Willing

Post by Jason » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:58 am

Somewhere JLF equated "saving" to "spending" which for a brief, unexpurgated moment, blew my fuckin mind into a million tiny pieces despite it being completely obvious. One of our biggest expenses has been saving. Then I started thinking "what do you do with money that has no teleos". Meaning, I don't need it now, I don't need it in the future. It's get abstract. Like "what the fuck is money anyways?" I'm far from there because I have a mortgage, but I guess the question is "when do you give it away" which is a whole other ball of wax, although a nice ball of wax considering the other balls of wax you could be sorting through like cancer or some shit. I remember when MMM gave away his first 100K and you would have thought he invented the very concept of fuckin charity. Christ, I can see him now pedaling his little bicycle to the pediatric ontological wing of a hospital with one of those oversized checks that Ed McMahon used to give away. I know where we would give it, but we do it quietly. Although a part of me would like to endow a University Chair in "Asshole Studies." Let's face it, so much of history is just people being an asshole but its never discussed. Everyone asks "why did Hitler kill 6 million Jews." And scholars come up with "Well, he was a failed artist who had a testicle bitten off by a dog owned by a Jew." Well, ok, but it seems a little extreme and the basic fact is he was kind of being a complete psychopathic asshole. So you could have a series "Christian Assholes: The Crusades." "Totalitarian Assholes: Early 20th Europe." "Southern Assholes: The Civil War" etc.

SavingWithBabies
Posts: 371
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:50 pm
Location: Midwest, USA

Re: Five Years, Lord Willing

Post by SavingWithBabies » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:10 pm

Congratulations at $400k. We just hit it too! In another thread, you mentioned wealth is all relative and I think so too. It is hard to appreciate just how big an accomplishment $400k is though. And you're more than 50% to your goal.

I wonder how many volumes the "Political Assholes" series would have.
Last edited by SavingWithBabies on Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Jason
Posts: 1413
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:37 am

Re: Five Years, Lord Willing

Post by Jason » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:05 pm

Congrats right back at you. I think I read somewhere here that 330K is halfway to a million. Looking back, we were at 240K two years ago, and it seems that 330K is about where money starts really working for you. That's why I would suggest to get to that number in a conservative fashion and at that point maybe take a few risks. Or maybe just get to one's half way point in a conservative fashion. Most of our money grew from just sitting there. Of course we are the beneficiaries of an overheated stock market so who knows.

On a humbling note, 400K is 57 Jacobs but only like 5 Jasons. I should really get back to the book.

halfmoon
Posts: 693
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:19 pm

Re: Five Years, Lord Willing

Post by halfmoon » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:23 pm

Jason wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:58 am
I know where we would give it, but we do it quietly.
Agreed.

suomalainen
Posts: 442
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:49 pm

Re: Five Years, Lord Willing

Post by suomalainen » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:14 pm

Congrats! I think the number is arbitrary, but the FU feeling attached to the number is what it’s all about.

So...what’s next?

Jason
Posts: 1413
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:37 am

Re: Five Years, Lord Willing

Post by Jason » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:57 am

(@) Half-moon - I learned this from the late great egomaniac and NY Yankees owner George Steinbrenner. Not personally, as I did not know him intimately. But he was essentially funding the city of Tampa but never told anyone because he thought that anonymity was the essence of charity. This came out after he died. This is unlike, say MMM, who sings like Tevya from his solar paneled rooftop every time he stares down a fart. The other issue is that charity is not neutral. Where one gives money/time/resources reflects one's social, political, religious commitments. It is not a universal good to everyone just because it falls under the rubric of charity. People need to realize that.

(@) Suomainen. One of JLF's blog posts was on the benefits of taking time out to think. I think all the time. Actually, all I do is think. I really don't actually do anything. Even when I'm doing something I'm thinking about doing something else which is usually just about being someplace else and thinking about things. Now admittedly my thinking, like most people's, is an admixture of many different things, some of which cannot be written down here. So upon reaching the first plateau I set since arriving here, I have been ruminating on what got us here, and why we didn't get here earlier/or why don't we have say $500K at this moment.

(1) Change at this stage in our lives should be limited to mental adjustments. Working more efficiently. Saving more efficiently. Investing more efficiently etc. Elimination of stupid mistakes, panic moves, dumb ass dreams are wealth builders. Not doing shit can be as profitable as doing shit which is great for me because I hate doing shit;
(2) Reminding ourselves we are not broke ass and we do not have to scurry around for every last acorn. Not all money is worth chasing.
(3) Focusing more on elimination of mortgage than aggressive retirement holdings;
(4) The older I get the more I realize that everything is personal. It doesn't mean you have to take things personally, but it does mean that you have to be rigorous in weeding out things that are generally accepted but are not best for you;
(5) Although we have not reached our ultimate goal, there will be more of a concern on wealth protection than wealth growth. Obviously, the amount of cycles we have to rebound and take advantage from diminishes over time;
(6) I am going to carry around my little fu in my hand like that Gollum dude in LOTR, stroking it, calling it precious, because I just can't get enough of telling people to go eff themselves;

suomalainen
Posts: 442
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:49 pm

Re: Five Years, Lord Willing

Post by suomalainen » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:06 am

Jason wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:57 am
...Even when I'm doing something I'm thinking about doing something else which is usually just about being someplace else and thinking about things...
...Change at this stage in our lives should be limited to mental adjustments...
...I am going to carry around my little fu in my hand like that Gollum dude in LOTR, stroking it, calling it precious, because I just can't get enough of telling people to go eff themselves;
All things I can relate to. Congrats again and keep us updated on your progress!

User avatar
Frugalchicos
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:23 pm
Contact:

Re: Five Years, Lord Willing

Post by Frugalchicos » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:11 pm

Congrats achieving your goal brother. Now lets start 2018 fresh, killing it and with new challenges and goals (and of course, enjoying life and having fun in the meantime)

Jason
Posts: 1413
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:37 am

Re: Five Years, Lord Willing

Post by Jason » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:12 pm

Thank you and a big frugal Amen to that sentiment.

User avatar
Fish
Posts: 383
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:09 am

Re: Five Years, Lord Willing

Post by Fish » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:37 am

Jason wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:05 pm
I read somewhere here that 330K is halfway to a million. Looking back, we were at 240K two years ago, and it seems that 330K is about where money starts really working for you.
It’s true. Here’s the explanation:
http://earlyretirementextreme.com/benfo ... rdest.html

For a more technical discussion of Benford’s law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benford%27s_law

Jason
Posts: 1413
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:37 am

Re: Five Years, Lord Willing

Post by Jason » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:46 am

Thank you.

Overheated stock market aside, there has been a pedagogical moment here:

(1) At 330K, the transition from working for your money to your money working for you kicks in. I did not realize this at the time. I was just plowing every dime into savings. It's not a bad thing per se, but there should have been a re-adjustment on my behalf in terms of efficiency. Hypothetically speaking, if one's goal is 1 million, a transition or at least reevaluation should occur when one meets 330K i.e. how could I have gotten to 330K more expediently in order that I can get to 1 million more expediently. It's my first personal taste of the rich get richer. If you don't understand the basic mathematical laws, you cannot use them to your full advantage. The most valuable feature of saved money is time to think about better saving money i.e. how exactly is my money working for me and how can I make it work better. Warren Buffet essentially built a manufacturing plant made out of money that mass produces money so at this point the means of production and the product are indistinguishable. He's just floating on a raft on top of an ocean spontaneously generating money.

Also, one can reevaluate the very notion of needing one million. You can't live like a millionaire as you become one (if you do, it will take longer), so maybe the whole idea of living like one is kind of bullshit. That's probably a personal issue.

(2) Once again, I would prioritize behavior over investing acumen, at least initially. Even the annuity that I got screwed on made money over time. I made an idiotic choice in choosing a specific investment instrument, but the decision to invest was in itself a smart decision.

Seppia
Posts: 617
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:34 am
Location: Italy

Re: Five Years, Lord Willing

Post by Seppia » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:03 am

Jason wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:46 am
(2) Once again, I would prioritize behavior over investing acumen, at least initially. Even the annuity that I got screwed on made money over time. I made an idiotic choice in choosing a specific investment instrument, but the decision to invest was in itself a smart decision.
Great point.
I go insane when people agonize about a 0.05% difference in TER in an ETF, when if they just saved $50 more per month they would be better off with the more expensive ETF even if their holding amounted to $1M.

Reality is 99% of the population doesn't intuitively get math.

Jason
Posts: 1413
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:37 am

Re: Five Years, Lord Willing

Post by Jason » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:38 am

This makes me think how little people actually know. The first day I invested there were certainly people who said "I'm pulling out, its overheated, its a bubble." I had no idea. I was just excited to start investing. And the ignorant questions I asked, which can now be described as "Does this overpriced investment instrument that I do not understand and which if your job had a fiduciary requirement you would not sell to me because you would lose your license contain these specific tech stocks that I do not understand which will be obsolete in five years?" Just as people today are saying the same thing, as someone is investing for the first time and is excited about it and has no clue about what they are doing or time to determine whether its a good time or not to start the process.

I do believe that between Robo investment websites and a general distaste of the established, paternal order, new investors will make better decisions than I did by moving more towards ETFing and Indexing. You can do your best to know things, including the extent of the unknowns, but there are always unknowns you have no knowledge about. In retrospect, if I had focused more on not making bad decisions as I did trying to make good decisions, I would have been better off.

Rouva
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:13 pm

Re: Five Years, Lord Willing

Post by Rouva » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:35 am

Jason wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:38 am
You can do your best to know things, including the extent of the unknowns, but there are always unknowns you have no knowledge about. In retrospect, if I had focused more on not making bad decisions as I did trying to make good decisions, I would have been better off.
That's excellent advice. I'm not a math person, and most calculations on this forum (especially the lengthy ones full of damned letters and numbers and whatever) make my eyes glaze over. When I started, I read several books on the topic, and decided to pick passive index funds because the theory sounded reasonable and they didn't require much effort. I set up an allocation, and spend few hours every November writing down how much of what I should buy next year.
My husband picked stocks.He likes selling and watching. His profits are much better than mine, but I'm better at saving money, so I win. I think my current investment balance is seven times larger than his.

User avatar
Family father
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:59 am

Re: Five Years, Lord Willing

Post by Family father » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:00 am

Hi Jason!

I just wanted to thank you for your sharing: being also a pesimistic, I recognize myself in your "I usually make between X and Y, but since I have zero guaranteed, that's what I'll count on" and many of your day to day objectives and fails.
Control is an illusion. So its not even a consideration anymore. I get up. I'm alive. Period. I have no rights or entitlements on this earth.
I liked that: I feel I still must walk a long way in that path...

P.S: you even made me think about starting a journal!!! :?

Jason
Posts: 1413
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:37 am

Re: Five Years, Lord Willing

Post by Jason » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:55 pm

Rouva wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:35 am
My husband picked stocks.He likes selling and watching. His profits are much better than mine, but I'm better at saving money, so I win. I think my current investment balance is seven times larger than his.
You go girl.


@ FFN

You should start a journal. Writing memorializes and specifies. It's for yourself.

Post Reply