Gus' road to retirement

[Riggerjack]

I don't read journals, much. But I just read all the way through this one.

Agustus, earlier, you didn't know if you would like to work 2 months per year in retirement, or six. You wanted to make a software AP. And throughout, you have obsessed about how much work was right for you.

How much do you think you would pull in, working 2 months per year? If you subtract that amount from your annual expenses, are you FI, yet? If so, why not cut back to 2 months per year, to see if you like it? If not, how many months income (estimated average) would it take? Cut back to that. Act FI to see if you like it. Use some of the time to try your AP. Maybe you can close the FI gap with your own project.

Working harder, to save, to work less in the future, is reasonable in the beginning of accumulation, but accurate forecasting is more important near the end. You seem to be in need of some quality data on what you really want, and maybe you are too good at distracting yourself with work. Or maybe I am just projecting...

In any case, it was a good read, and good luck to you.

[suomalainen]

Since you asked...two thoughts:

1) Complexity does not scale linearly with the number of family members, does it?
2) Without re-reading your whole journal, my recollection is that you're in a pretty sweet situation right now - you work on or near the beach some/much of the time, you work for yourself (well, third party clients), you can work flexibly...what exactly are you trying to achieve? A short sabbatical? Instead of framing it as a sabbatical, can't you frame it as part of the business plan and/or reduce your work load once the current set of contracts terminate?
3) Instead of the all-or-nothing approach, where you might hit a "fuck this isn't what I thought it would be like" moment like financial samurai's full-time parenting moment, can't you engineer a smoother glidepath from call it 40 hours/week worth of work to 20 or 10 or 0 and try it out and have a back-up emergency on-ramp if you decide you need some work in your life (for reasons other than money)?

I guess this is sort of the same reaction as @riggerjack from above - if you have the flexibility to just do it (turn down work), do you really have to announce it or label it as anything? I'm probably not understanding the nature of your work.

[prognastat]

I think he means that going from single to married adds a decent bit of complexity to your life. Then adding a kid adds some more, but not as much. Adding another kid again adds some more, but less again etc. Thus making it non-linear.

[suomalainen]

When I said non-linear, I meant in the other direction. A two person family isn't twice as complex as a one person family - it's more than twice as complex. Adding a third isn't 3x as complex, it's more than 3x complex, etc. Like this from a hetero male perspective (change pronouns for others):

1 person:
- Man considers man. The end. 1 thing.*

2 person:
- Man considers man. Man considers wife. Man considers marriage. Man considers what wife thinks of man, of herself, of marriage. 6 things.

3 person:
- Man considers man. Man considers wife. Man considers marriage. Man considers child. Man considers father-child relationship. Man considers mother-child relationship. Man considers parent-child relationship. Man considers family. Man considers what wife thinks of man, of herself, of marriage, of child, of mother-child relationship, of father-child relationship, of parent-child relationship, of family. Man considers what child thinks of man, of mother, of parents together, of itself, of mother-child relationship, of father-child relationship, of parents-child relationship, of family. 24 things.

4 person:
- Man considers man. Man considers wife. Man considers marriage. Man considers child A. Man considers child B. Man considers children together. Man considers mother-child A. Man considers mother-child B. Man considers mother-children. Man considers parents-children. Man considers family. Man considers what wife thinks of man, of herself, of marriage, of child A, of child B, of mother-child A relationship, of mother-child B relationship, of mother-children relationship, of father-child A relationship, of father-child B relationship, of father-children relationship, of parents-child A relationship, of parents-child B relationship, of parents-children relationship, of family. Etc. I dunno, it's like 55 things.

Etc.

If you don't believe me, remove any one person from my family of five for an afternoon, a day, a week and the dynamics are TOTALLY different, depending on who you remove. And this complexity only really kicks in to full gear in middle school, in my experience. Babies, toddlers, elementary school aged kids are EASY by comparison, in my experience - you still consider their needs, but you just sorta make a decision and do it and they just sorta go along with it (although even still some kids are harder than others).

* Man is happy.

edit: concrete recent example:

Me: I'm going to go visit my parents and bring DS2.
Wife: NOOOOO, not the easy one!
Me: What? It's his turn.
Wife: I know, but don't leave me with the other two. They'll just fight the whole time. I need my DS2 buffer.
Me: [muttering] I shoulda stayed single.

[jacob]

Also see https://www.amazon.com/Over-Our-Heads-M ... 674445880/ The levels described above roughly map out 1-1. Note that @soumalainen's description of all (1-4 person) was from a Kegan5 perspective and Kegan estimates that ~1% of humans habitually engage(*) with other people at that level. 56% of humans operate at the "2 person" level, 14% operate at the "1 person" level, and 29% at the "3 person level". There's also a 0 person level which is before "man considers man", that is, before man develops an ego, so pre-teen age and these are quite easy to deal with... almost mechanical.

(*) It's of course a lot easier to intellectually understand a model than it is to internalize it and apply it in daily interactions.

Similar to Wheaton levels, it's really hard to see the next level until you're at it---at which point it's hard to go back.

[daylen]

If the number of vertices is labeled n (people in network) and the graph is complete (all relationships considered), then the number of edges/relations is n(n-1)/2.

In a four-person family, the number of relationships is 4(4-1)/2 = 6. This is just how many groups of 2 there are. There are also 4 groups of 1 (considering self), 4 groups of 3, and 1 group of 4. Now we are at 6+4+4+1 = 15.

This is an objective, birds eye view of the network. For a subjective view each group must be considered by all people, so 15×4 = 45.

Probably not helpful, but it was interesting to think about.

[Mister Imperceptible]

You have to admit that the idea of becoming “Emperor Augustus” is intriguing.

[suomalainen]

So, what's the app do?

[prognastat]

Congrats on submitting your first app. I hope it does well.

[classical_Liberal]

Congrats on the app! Much better option to try and generate cashflow than part-time nursing! Of course my opinion is currently tainted .

I reread your last several entries and it seems two things are on your mind. The first is you need more alone time (I love thinking walks as well BTW). The second seems like you are trying to figure out "enough". You seem to be in a similar circumstance as me (trying to figure out enough and a big want lying in wait) in that if you just stick to the status quo for a couple more years both will probably iron themselves out.

You are definitely one up on me in that you're actively throwing a couple new things against the wall, income generation wise, to see if they will stick. Maybe just actively trying, whether they work out or not, is enough to keep your head in the game to handle the next couple of years? I'm certainly not offering any advice, other than maybe just encouragement to stay active in your pursuits. I started to realized I was in this situation awhile ago and have done nothing but try to "stick it out" and that strategy is not working at all. My lazy ass can't find the motivation to do anything other than read or play video games in my off time from work, and I don't have a toddler running around, so props to you!

[prognastat]

Even if it does fail though, you know have more experience creating an app and going through the process of getting it on the store which will make you more efficient at doing so in future attempts. So even a failure will still be progress.

[classical_Liberal]

One of the main benefits IMO is that one day I'll need health care, and after pursuing one professional field I've realized most professionals are very mediocre but a layman can't tell the difference. One day, if I don't become a professional myself, I'll be one of those laymen at the hospital and won't know who is the moron Dr/nurse vs the good one. It's also very recession proof, always going to need nurses, some day skynet may displace programmers. AND you can do per diem. Checks a lot of boxes. Plus I think biology is cool in general.

Yes, my knowledge is invaluable wrt personal/family healthcare. I've actually joked about starting a business based around being on call for people who need hospital care. "They don't need that, they should do this instead. Don't go down that rabbithole, you'll regret it", etc. Problem, of course, is I'd lose my license quickly. Still, It's a free service for friends and family

I'm pretty sure my current distaste would improve with some time off. I also just tend to get bored/frustrated with any career after about five years. So if you're interested, I don't want to dissuade you. The world needs good nurses. And if you're a good nurse you will touch peoples lives in ways you can't imagine as a "civilian".

[prognastat]

Is your work in consulting showing off any benefits yet for yourself or your customers?

[prognastat]

Well I know for myself I tend to get bored with most jobs after about a year or two at best. I know there are some people very high ion conscientiousness that remain fulfilled, by just doing a good job. However, once it gets to the point where I've learned most things there are to learn in a job I tend to get bored.

[suomalainen]

"it doesn't matter how hot a girl is, there's some guy somewhere who is tired of ****ing her," it's crude, but it does make a point, no matter how nice something is we all get tired of it after a long enough time.

I always heard it as "it doesn't matter how hot a girl is, there's some guy somewhere who is tired of her shit". Probably distinction without a difference, but I hear you. I think that's where golden handcuffs come in, right?

[Clarice]

I am really sorry about your loss, @ Augustus. Life is really, precious ,indeed, with many things that we don't control. I am visiting my parents right now and seeing my old friends, lots of joy and sadness at the same time. My parents' life is very difficult. They are old. They are not practical people. My mom is very ill. Their love, however, is owe inspiring. Hang in there. Take care of people who are still around.

[classical_Liberal]

I'm so sorry for the loss of your friend.

[Mister Imperceptible]

Sorry for your loss Augustus.

[suomalainen]

Sorry to hear it, man. The loss, the hole left behind, the suddenness, the finality - it all sucks.

[wolf]

Sorry to hear!