Nomadic-ERE Year 5 - Wanderlust Prevails

Where are you and where are you going?
theanimal
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Re: ERE Experiment - Vagabonding a COVID-19 Minefield!

Post by theanimal »

Very impressive walking numbers. Are you hiking every day? Trails? What kind of terrain?

2Birds1Stone
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Re: ERE Experiment - Vagabonding a COVID-19 Minefield!

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

@theanimal, not every day, but a few times a week. Biggest day was 18.3 miles and then it's a blend of 10-12 mile days and 6-8 mile days. Since we are in a very walkable city, without much else to do, we tend to explore a lot by foot.

Terrain is a mix of 75% urban/paved paths and 25% trails (dirt, rocky, etc). This past week we even walked an old railroad track for 5 miles returning to Sintra from São Sebastião. Talk about a killer calf/shin workout! The days we hike trails, it's usually a decent elevation gain on top of the mileage, my Garmin registers ~130-150 "stories" of climbing on most of those days.

@Seppia, I have to agree with you 100%. Heck, looking at C40's journal it looks like even Vietnam handled this 100x better than the USA. I too hope we can meet up! Although logistically it might be harder since we've exhausted my wife's 90 day Schengen pass until we can figure out a permanent residency/citizenship route for EU. Maybe you feel like visiting Poland for a few days =)

Other Random Tidbits

1) Portugal announced that the state of emergency is ending after this weekend, although not much will change from a practical standpoint for quite a few weeks/months.

2) Both TAP Portuguese and LOT Polish Airlines announced that they will extend their layoffs through May 31st, which will make getting to Poland a bit more tricky. FlixBus has also suspended operations globally.

3) After 51 days in Portugal our cost per day is down <$75/day all in.

4) I still haven't had the balls to invest any of the cash sitting in my Roth IRA, and fear I may have missed out on a good opportunity over the past month.

2Birds1Stone
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Re: ERE Experiment - Vagabonding a COVID-19 Minefield!

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

Hey @bigato, I've joked about doing it quite a few times, but unfortunately my wife is not much of a cyclist. Even if she were, it would be a bit of a logistics nightmare trying to get the right bikes, gear, luggage, to make a trip like that safe and feasible. Shops are still closed here. Biking with 25+ lb backpacks is not the easiest thing to do. If I was here by myself, it would be a no-brainer. I could easily cover 100-120 km/day on the right bike. Not sure about housing along the route, as many accommodations are closed through the countries we would need to pass through, esp Spain, France, Italy, etc. It's much easier to backpack through using public transport. The biggest visa hurdle is that we have to get out of the EU by June 8th, and then re-enter Poland from a non EU country. This is why a flight through the UK, Ukraine, or another non EU country is the best way to go. We have looked at flying to London and trying by bus, but it's a mixed bag on what is operating with Covid-19 right now.

I do wish to bike across Europe in the future, here is the best site for information on routes and their completion as of 2020. https://en.eurovelo.com/

It's going to be 85 degrees here today, and we plan on spending it in a local park mostly reading in the shade and hanging out by the water. Going to try to find a good ebook to read through my library back home. Hoopla is a great app!

Don't think I've posted about this before, but one small cost/lifestyle win for us has been completely getting rid of cell phone service while in Lisbon. We haven't had/paid for talk/txt/data since the first month here. It's been more than just a cost advantage of saving $20-30/month. Not being connected all the time has led to way less screen time. I simply downloaded an offline map of Lisbon through Google Maps and use that for navigation. If we need to look something up, it's never a bother to find some free WiFi hotspot in the city.

This trip so far has been a real eyeopener for how little we actually need to be happy. I feel like we could even downsize the amount of stuff we had packed and brought with us. Likely will since our inter-Europe flights will limit our baggage even more than we anticipated. Nearly 6 months since I sold my car, don't miss it at all! Definitely won't go back to being a two car household ever again.

The Old Man
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Re: ERE Experiment - Vagabonding a COVID-19 Minefield!

Post by The Old Man »

2Birds1Stone wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 1:35 am
The biggest visa hurdle is that we have to get out of the EU by June 8th, and then re-enter Poland from a non EU country.
You probably already know this, but to be clear. Remember that before you reenter the Schengen Zone you have stay outside of it for ninety days. So, after you leave Portugal by June 8th you will be unable to reenter the Schengen zone until ninety days have passed - roughly Sep 6th.

2Birds1Stone
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Re: ERE Experiment - Vagabonding a COVID-19 Minefield!

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

@The Old Man, that is normally the case with most of Schengen, but Poland has a separate bilateral agreement with the United States allowing a separate 90 day stay for US citizens after getting stampes out of Schengen. We will have to stay within Poland for the duration of those 90 days and the timer doesn't reset for rest of Schengen until we are out of Poland as well. By then my wife should be able to establish spousal visa/residency.

2Birds1Stone
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Re: ERE Experiment - Vagabonding a COVID-19 Minefield!

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

Musings


It's a good day to reflect on the past 12 months, and boy did quite a lot happen in that time. Since May of 2019;

1) Took an impromptu trip to visit/help family in Poland for 5+ weeks
2) Stood up to an awful employer and pulled off "Office Space 2.0"
3) Engineered my own layoff
4) leanFIRE'd
5) Got married!
6) Sold everything and went voluntarily "homeless" to travel the world during what turned out to be a global pandemic
7) Survived (so far) my first bear market, shortly after leaving on said adventure.
8) Currently thriving on a budget that's below the US Fed poverty line

Hope that the next year is just as interesting/eventful!

It's storming here today, so a pretty low key day. Been blessed with plenty of warmth and sunshine the past week, including a day where it hit 91 degrees. I'm tan enough to get mistaken for a local at this point, which is amusing. My Portuguese vocabulary has increased by several hundred words, without much intentional effort. This is definitely not the trip we had planned, but what a cool experience!
Last edited by 2Birds1Stone on Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

classical_Liberal
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Re: ERE Experiment - Vagabonding a COVID-19 Minefield!

Post by classical_Liberal »

Holy crap! That's a lot in the past year. It's amazing how well life works out when you're willing to take some risks. Keep kick'en a**!

2Birds1Stone
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Re: ERE Experiment - Vagabonding a COVID-19 Minefield!

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

Thanks c_L.

I feel like it's been a roller-coaster of a year, but ultimately that's what keeps life interesting. As I reflected yesterday, on the past year, my mind shifted towards the future, and it's currently a blank slate. I don't have anything specific I want to accomplish at this time, either professionally or personally. No specific place I would like to settle down, or even travel to after spending some quality time with family in Poland over the summer. The world is in such a state of flux that even mid-term planning is difficult. A thread was dug up and bumped on another part of the forum, which made me think further into the future. The OP of that thread warned the folks here that what we enjoy/want/etc now very well can/will change in the future. Not a new concept, and something we discuss here with regularity, but it forced me to really think about how I can enjoy the present, while continuing to give my future self options.

Right now it feels good to see expenses dropping as a result of lifestyle change, without any real focus on money. However, is it really sustainable? I guess only time can tell, and it forced me to think about the choices to be made in the coming months/years. I was thinking about how to make it sustainable in the longer term. A few ideas came to mind;

1) https://wwoof.net/ - working on an organic farm in return for free housing and some meals. Could be an exceptional way to learn new skills, meet like-minded people, and see places that we hadn't planned. Maybe @bigato needs a hand on the farm ;)

2) https://www.workaway.info/ - similar concept to WOOFing, but broader types of work/stay arrangements. I've seen interesting projects like building homesteads/earthships, teaching English, cooking, etc.

3) Settling in a very LCOL area like Poland or SE Asia. Already explained the orchard in Poland, and that's definitely an option. SE Asia is a big unknown right now, with things getting more and more complicated for foreigners there. Could be some lasting cultural/xenophobia issues in the region, will have to revisit this one after spending some time there.

4) Inspired by @AxelHeyst, I consider the semi-long term viability of living full-nomad in North America. COVID-19 related logistic issues have made this a bit more difficult, but could be a strong possibility for the future. The general popularity of the "vanlife" movement has increased restrictions/scrutiny in many popular destinations, but it's still possible to do, especially if you have some land that's private to boondock on, such as Axel has.

5) Continue traveling on a modest budget and pray for some inspiration to find a feasible way to earn income along the way. I'm really terrible with thinking of side hustles that are location independent and could provide a good time vs. reward ratio.

We budgeted about $30k for this year of travel, with a $6k buffer to "reintegrate" into society. So far we've burned through $4k of that, but $2.4k was offset by the Fed stimulus, so still have plenty of time to wander about and figure things out.

Hope everyone has a good week ahead.

classical_Liberal
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Re: ERE Experiment - Vagabonding a COVID-19 Minefield!

Post by classical_Liberal »

I've read that thread a couple times before. I remember the story of the poster, and the interactions with @jacob because it was what really sold me on ERE. Today, I now have the confidence that i am one of those people that can manage to make this type of life work. If anything I'll end up shifting to the productivity/earn too much side of semi-ERE. It's just not in my blood to do it any differently.

I love the trapeze analogy. Rereading it now though, with just a tiny bit more experience, the flaw I see in it for me (or my personality) is that it's not a single trapeze in front of you. There are dozens to choose from and you have to pick which one to try to leap to next. This is my biggest problem. Given that fact you listed five possibilities right off the top of your head is some evidence of this problem. Now, as problems go, it's a great one to have. But I still use a fair amount of my mental energy contemplating these things. I really think there is something for me to learn about the whole "being" vs "doing" in this realm. Obviously @oldpro was/is very good at going with the flow, and just being.

One side note to all the concerns over old age health care in that thread. I just want to point out, having the knowledge to manage and navigate healthcare options as we age is a skill like any other. Just like other skills, 99% of people do it really, really poorly. This is actually one problem/fear I do not have. It is possibly for most to learn given enough effort, but I think most feel resigned that healthcare is one of those things only an "expert" can handle, beyond doing our best to maintain good health. That's just really not the case, like anything else specialized, it's possible to use the 80/20 rule to help make good, informed decisions in this realm that will save a lot of heartache (potentially literal heart aches) as we age. A caveat being that most young people probably do not consider the physical and/or mental limitations that may begin to impact them as they age, and the poster was right that this needs to be considered and expenses may pop up in other realms (ie not just healthcare) to maintain lifestyle.

mooretrees
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Re: ERE Experiment - Vagabonding a COVID-19 Minefield!

Post by mooretrees »

Such an interesting place to be right now. Most of us here are planning and planning, living today but waiting for tomorrow and what we hope it can bring. To be in a place where the future is wide open, and you aren't actively working on some future dream is pretty different. You have done a great job putting yourself in that place and I hope you can enjoy it!

Any kinds of plans beyond the next couple of weeks feels useless to me. I think about stuff, but then just have to shrug and say, we'll see. I hope you can get to Poland and enjoy that orchard. Get your hands in the dirt and continue chilling. I really enjoy reading about this journey, it's not what you imagined but you really seem to making it work.

J_
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Re: ERE Experiment - Vagabonding a COVID-19 Minefield!

Post by J_ »

classical_Liberal wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 7:24 pm
One side note to all the concerns over old age health care in that thread. I just want to point out, having the knowledge to manage and navigate healthcare options as we age is a skill like any other. Just like other skills, 99% of people do it really, really poorly. This is actually one problem/fear I do not have. It is possibly for most to learn given enough effort, but I think most feel resigned that healthcare is one of those things only an "expert" can handle, beyond doing our best to maintain good health. That's just really not the case, like anything else specialized, it's possible to use the 80/20 rule to help make good, informed decisions in this realm that will save a lot of heartache (potentially literal heart aches) as we age. A caveat being that most young people probably do not consider the physical and/or mental limitations that may begin to impact them as they age, and the poster was right that this needs to be considered and expenses may pop up in other realms (ie not just healthcare) to maintain lifestyle.
I have made some text of you in Bold. I am one of those who is prepared to study/apply a lot to maintain good health, I see it as a skill one can learn. I am not a professional, as I think you are. Can you please inform us more, perhaps in a new topic?

classical_Liberal
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Re: ERE Experiment - Vagabonding a COVID-19 Minefield!

Post by classical_Liberal »

@J
I have to be careful to walk a fine line, as I have given more than enough info here to be easily doxxed and can't/don't want to give any specific medical advice. Which is why I post such things as generalities to encourage folks to do their own due diligence on medical matters. I worry any thread devoted to this will quickly move into specific personal circumstances or possibilities, so I try to avoid those.

J_
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Re: ERE Experiment - Vagabonding a COVID-19 Minefield!

Post by J_ »

@c-L: I understand your care. I appreciate much what you have already mentioned. And I fully endorse what you said:

Getting skilled in staying healthy long term, is something you can only realize by studying and practicing by yourself.

And the nice thing is: you are your own proof!

Jin+Guice
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Re: ERE Experiment - Vagabonding a COVID-19 Minefield!

Post by Jin+Guice »

2Birds1Stone wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 2:36 pm
it forced me to really think about how I can enjoy the present, while continuing to give my future self options.
This is the distillation of ERE to me. If you're not doing this than what are you doing?

Some things that the recently FIREd (not necessarily you, @2B1S though) don't often consider are 1) continuing to raise their Wheaton level and 2) working again.

A lot of the things you listed would raise your Wheaton level. Getting to FI only requires you to optimize along one parameter, mainly money. It's something we've all used all of our lives. Once the skills necessary to lower income are gained (most of which is done through giving things up or changing how things are done), it's rinse and repeat for a few years. The reward of money and watching numbers grow on a screen are easy, we're already used to them and they feel good.

The interesting thing is that money is the abstraction while all higher Wheaton level stuff actually delivers its payload directly. When you grow your own food, you get to eat that food. When you build your own house, you get to live in it. These are the goals we (myself included) have to convince ourselves are worthwhile. Getting to a higher Wheaton level after FI is difficult because you have to figure out what it means and how you want to do it. It's a slower pace and a less immediate abstract reward than accumulating money, but I think it's more worthwhile. It can seem daunting at first because there is so much we've never even thought about that we don't know how to do, but it's possible to figure out what the most worthwhile small step is for you and then work towards doing just that.

The two things you've just freed yourself from are 1) the need to earn some amount of money and 2) being enslaved to your means of providing for yourself and your family. With an eye on avoiding these two things in the future, you can now do any "job" you've ever wanted for however long (or short) you want to in any capacity that you can find or create. What a future option to close out without even thinking about it.

@c_L: I'm also interested in what your vague "learn to navigate the healthcare system" would mean. I promise I won't sue.

classical_Liberal
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Re: ERE Experiment - Vagabonding a COVID-19 Minefield!

Post by classical_Liberal »

Jin+Guice wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 8:33 am
@c_L: I'm also interested in what your vague "learn to navigate the healthcare system" would mean. I promise I won't sue.
It's not only that or license issues. It's that I don't want to be responsible for someone making choices based on general statements made by me. Each situation is unique. What I mean is that most people handle their medical care they way they do the rest of their life, they hire someone(s) to fix problems and don't really care how it gets done, or if it gets done right. As long as they dont have to think about it for awhile. Around here, there is a ton of pushback on this in life generally. However, less so when it comes to medical care. It's just taken as a forgone conclusion that the only option we have here is in prevention (which is realy, really good in itself). However, that's not the case. You have options in treatments too.

The financial analogy here is saving 500K(prevention), but then paying Edward Jones 2% load fees and 2% ER, while that expert puts you in a 60/40 bogleheads portfolio. You're paying a shit-ton to do something that is very suboptimal, but it's considered normal in the industry, so... In healthcare, like investments, it's better to learn as much as you can yourself, then use expert consultation when needed, and only get involved in the products/services that make sense for you. IMO, you have to be over/past Mt Stupid in knowledge, as a minimum, to be able to do this effectively in any field. It's much better to know how you'll react to things in advance, because just like in investments, you don't want to have to formulate your strategy during a time of stress or extreme volatility. You need a plan that makes sense for you, in advance of stressors.
Jin+Guice wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 8:33 am
It's a slower pace and a less immediate abstract reward than accumulating money, but I think it's more worthwhile. It can seem daunting at first because there is so much we've never even thought about that we don't know how to do, but it's possible to figure out what the most worthwhile small step is for you and then work towards doing just that.
This is why it's so much easier to try to focus on higher Wheaton levels in lieu of a massive income stream. So, I think it's easier to move up Wheaton levels after FT employment is over. $200 is meaningless when you make 10K a month and are constantly stressed for time. When you have plenty of time and no income, $200 means much, much more to you. As it should, IMO.

I think the biggest problem moving past Wheaton 5 is learning to track things other than money. Traditional FI accumulation has us in a single-minded race, one that doesn't do us much good when trying to understand and track flows of nonfinancial nature at a level of conscious competence. Particularly if the return on the excess of those flows are delayed in time and space.

IOW, 100K @4% return is 104K next year. Easy to know what I've gained by accumulating excess in financial flow, even with time and space distance. This is much, much, harder to do in other realms. So, it becomes difficult to motivate yourself towards progress.

Edited multiple times for clarity.
Last edited by classical_Liberal on Tue May 12, 2020 4:27 pm, edited 5 times in total.

jacob
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Re: ERE Experiment - Vagabonding a COVID-19 Minefield!

Post by jacob »

classical_Liberal wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 3:54 pm
I think the biggest problem moving past Wheaton 5 is learning to track things other than money. Traditional FI accumulation has us in a single-minded race, one that doesn't do us much good when trying to understand and track flows of nonfinancial nature at a level of conscious competence. Particularly if the return on those flows are delayed in time and space.
This mainly being the problem of coming from the [high-income] salaryman quadrant. (This has been discussed before in some thread but I forget where.) The Wheaton table itself was written mostly from an evolving salaryman perspective. If you come in from another quadrant like workingman or businessman the levels (steps, sticking points, and plateaus) would look different. If you're already in the systems-thinking quadrant, like e.g. a permaculturist, who is often deliberately oblivious to money, the evolution looks positively weird (from a salaryman's perspective).

(Better framework: The Wheaton table should really be a kind of Wheaton map that goes up the mountain but acknowledges that one can approach from different directions.)

(Best framework: There are actually multiple mountain tops and ERE just happens to the one which is called ERE. The mountain might be higher that the table record shows, but we don't know because nobody has been there.)

classical_Liberal
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Re: ERE Experiment - Vagabonding a COVID-19 Minefield!

Post by classical_Liberal »

@jacob
Agree completely. I was involved in that discussion, which seems to have involved several different threads and evolved over time, so I can't reference it easily. My point was for someone like @2B1S, who I know is coming from the high paying salaryman quadrant, just like me.

Those coming from a systems approach often have more problems with the cognitive dissonance of using/saving excess money flows for FI. Since they have tried to stay away from the money economy.

It's both ironic and beneficial that people coming from almost polar opposite sides reside on this forum.

2Birds1Stone
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Re: ERE Experiment - Vagabonding a COVID-19 Minefield!

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

I have spent a lot of time deeply introspecting over the past few days, and have a bunch of thoughts that will take a few separate posts to get through and address some of the conversation here.

First of all, thank you for the sounding board and perspective, folks. It really helps to have this level of thoughtful conversation here.

@c_L, I too love the trapeze analogy much more than the door analogy. You've hit the nail on the head, I've let go of the last one and grabbed the slow travel one. Originally the plan was to let go of this one after a year in order to let SO and possibly myself get back to some sort of paid work and top of the reserves before the next adventure (most likely the thru-hike). The current state of the world has been akin to someone shutting the lights off in the circus. I know the others are swinging around and can hear them, but I'm out of sync. Hopefully time will lift the dimmer switch and provide some clarity. On the health front, I know what I can control today, and just focus on that (albeit poorly at times, ha!).

After some further contemplation and inspiration, I realized that my last post was not entirely truthful! I do in fact have a list of things I want to accomplish, experience, and learn. But I currently lack the planning to do them. Luckily the range of topics, skills, and activities is broad enough, that almost any situation I place myself in, will be conductive to one or more of them! I truly believe I've elevated past simple salaryman thinking, and my wheaton leavel has been on the rise for the past few years. This just feels like a short pause before the next growth spurt!

Some activities and skills that I genuinely want to acquire/improve include the following;

gardening (indoor, outdoor, food, sustainable)
woodwork (simple structures/techniques for now)
solar system (theory, design, practical applications, building, etc)
small engine maintenance/repair/troubleshooting
ditto for small diesel (marine especially) engines
basic vehicle maintenance and repair (car and motorcycle)
sailing (theory, single-handing, crewing, basic boat maintenance/repair, nautical systems, weather)
cycling (more advanced maintenance/repair, longer touring trips, improving MTB skills and terrain)
shelter - designing/building/finishing (tiny house, van/skoolie, liveaboard boat, RV, etc)
animals - raising, feeding, sheltering, possibly dispatching and processing (chickens, rabbits, goats, cows, etc)
hiking/mountaineering (basic survival skills such as navigation, water sourcing, foraging, first aid)
art (primarily interested in exploring different mediums, I am NOT an artistic person, yet fascinated by sculptures, pottery, metal/woodwork, etc)
surfing - big goal to learn!
snowboarding - haven't in over a decade, used to ride a LOT in my youth/teen years
stand up paddle boarding - enjoyed this a lot
kayaking - would love to do some saltwater and multi day kayaking/canoe camping trips
cooking - already a good cook, but need to get on Seppia's level

So regardless of where we end up geographically, and what mode of life we chose, there should be many opportunities to acquire and expand my domain in these areas. Take WOOFing for example, living on a farm/homestead, could cover gardening, animals, woodwork, small engine maintenance, cooking. Living in a van and traveling the US could cover solar system design, vehicle repair, cycling, SUPing, hiking/mountaineering, etc.

@mooretrees, that too seems like the best option given the currently available information.

2Birds1Stone
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Re: ERE Experiment - Vagabonding a COVID-19 Minefield!

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

@J+G, @c_L, @Jacob

You guys bring up some great points. I agree that there is an innate tendency to obsess over one dimension (money) when discovering FIRE/ERE/escaping the rat race. I was guilty of it with the best of them! It took a lot of effort at first, in order to expand the thought process and efforts to other dimensions. To c_L's point, I've been "tracking" other things for a few years now, including fitness, activity levels, how much waste I produce, how much energy I use, with almost zero regard for how they impact finances. Heck, my last apartment included electricity and heat in the rent, yet it was a constant optimization effort for environmental reasons, ditto for purchasing consumer goods such as electronics and clothing. Even when $200 or even $2000 was a drop in the bucket, my thinking evolved to have a disdain for waste, regardless of how little it impacted my time to FI or other financial metrics.

@J+G, I actually find it that growing wheaton levels *after* FI may be easier for the very reasons y'all are discussing. If quality of life = skill of living * cost of living, and you're without an income, it only makes sense to naturally improve on the skill front. I think a big key here may be to avoid over-saving, as posted quite often by folks such as c_L, if you have 50 years of an opulent budget in your portfolio, you get lazy and less creative, and that zest and quest for improvement can easily fizzle out. To that affect, we might be at the sweet spot....enough capital to be free from having to work a specific type of job, but not off the hook completely for being a productive human in some sort of capacity.

As far as I'm concerned, my core accumulation phase is over for good. Watching the numbers on the spreadsheet is now for the sole purpose of making sure we doing go completely off course. Now it's truly time to design a life that's conducive to growth and a positive impact on our environment, people, and places we call home along the way.

One topic that I discussed with my wife yesterday, was serendipity. Someone posted a link to the ERE wiki (specifically the serendipity section) recently, and it really made me think about the whole concept. So far there has been some serendipity in my career and personal life that was taken advantage of because of embracing this lifestyle/philosophy.......I imagine this will take us to strange and delightful places (literally and metaphorically).

Jin+Guice
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Re: ERE Experiment - Vagabonding a COVID-19 Minefield!

Post by Jin+Guice »

*I meant getting to a higher Wheaton level than the one it takes for you to FIRE is difficult. I agree that it's easier to get to a higher Wheaton level once you don't have to worry about making money (FI is sufficient for this but not necessary, which is sort of the point of semi-ERE). I worded my statement poorly in my previous post, sorry for the confusion.

@2b1s: That serendipity shit is why I don't think ERE people really have to worry about not being employable. @OldPro's story from the thread linked before is a great example. He didn't even really have to save that money to retire, but having some money helped him not worry, which helped him take on whatever projects he wanted. In the current Western environment, if you have the knowledge/ skills to save 3-5x annual living expenses, people will hire you to do shit for them. EarlyFlaneurExtreme.

For the large majority of people who actually make it onto this forum, I think not leading a boring life (as defined by themselves of course) is a better goal than saving X amount of money.

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