Nomadic-ERE Year 5 - Wanderlust Prevails

Where are you and where are you going?
2Birds1Stone
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Re: 2Birds1Stones' 28 month hustle to freedom!

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

classical_Liberal wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:33 am
A kick ass and take names year!
Ha, thanks C_L my motivation to retire is outweighing my motivation to work right now........we will see what 2018 brings.


I've spent the better part of the past two weeks doing a long thought experiment on what I would like my next chapter to look like.

Ideally I keep my current job till April 1 of 2020 and take a nice long 6-9 month sabbatical to travel with my fiance, followed by a return to work either full time, part time, or seasonally (depending heavily on market returns and portfolio when the time comes).

There are a few bucket list type adventures that we have the luxury of choosing from for that 2020 adventure.

1) Thru hike the Appalachian Trail. Flip Flop style, starting in Harpers Ferry WV in late April or early May, and hiking north with the spring summiting Mt. Katahdin in August, possibly taking a few weeks to spend time with family, and then returning to Harpers Ferry in September and following the fall foliage down to Springer Mountain Georgia. This would leave us around November, coming back home and living with family during the holidays while looking for work.

2) Splitting the time between a slow travel European adventure, starting in Southern spain or Portugal in April, working our way slowly to Poland by mid May, living in Poland and exploring with family till mid July. Followed by a trip my dad would really like to do.....6-8 weeks of motorcycling from NY up through Canada to Alaska, down the Pacific coast, and back to NY via NV/AZ/UT/CO/WY/MO/SD/PA/etc. We would likely finish early October and also spend time with family during the holidays while trying to re-enter the workforce.

3) Purchase either a mini van or small pickup + trailer and spend 6-9 months slow traveling the USA and Canada, hiking and mountain biking as we go along, visiting friends and family across the country and staying in each place from a few days to a few weeks.

In all scenarios we would ask employers for a sabbatical way in advance, or just quit and try our luck when we get back. We would also get rid of our current apartment, as we cannot justify paying $1100/month for 6-9 months while traveling.

Right now, option 2 sounds the most appealing, as it would allow the trip with pops, who isn't getting any younger. Already have the motorcycle, and an empty apartment in Southern Poland where 75% of my family lives. We would travel hack the cross continental flights so the cost of those would be negligible.

Option 1 would be the cheapest in my opinion, since a thru hike of the AT can be done for $10k total for two people, relatively comfortably.

Option 3 would likely cost the most, but would have the most freedom to come back home if the need arose (unlikely)

Regardless of which option we go with, I think it's going to be a bit hard to adjust back to being two full time career professionals, once that taste of freedom is had..........c'est la vie

2Birds1Stone
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Re: 2Birds1Stones' 28 month hustle to freedom!

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

January has been an interesting month for me.

I'm getting closer and closer to losing my job.

The markets have returned ludacris profits.

I am lacking motivation to be a productive worker as I inch closer to the goal posts.

classical_Liberal
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Re: 2Birds1Stones' 28 month hustle to freedom!

Post by classical_Liberal »

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trailblazer
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Re: 2Birds1Stones' 28 month hustle to freedom!

Post by trailblazer »

Seems like you’ve acccumulated enough for at least a trial run sometime soon! Although if job situation is in jeopardy could be worth holding out for any severance/unemployment.

2Birds1Stone
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Re: 2Birds1Stones' 28 month hustle to freedom!

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

Ding Dong
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wolf
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Re: 2Birds1Stones' 28 month hustle to freedom!

Post by wolf »

That situation with your job sounds really challening and is totally uncontrollable for you, I guess. But you couldn't have prevented that, could you? Nobody knows when layoffs happen. I kind of admire you in the States because of your own mental flexibility and adaptability in your job market, meaning that you are able to adjust fast and spontaneous to new job circumstances, comparing to European's job culture. Well, I hope for you that you can stay at your job. Better having a job, than looking for some, I guess.
2Birds1Stone wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:14 am
Ideally I keep my current job till April 1 of 2020 and take a nice long 6-9 month sabbatical to travel with my fiance, followed by a return to work either full time, part time, or seasonally (depending heavily on market returns and portfolio when the time comes).
Your plan about taking a sabbatical impresses me. That sounds cool. Will it be like a mini-retirement? I kind of like the idea behind it and I too maybe will do something like that. Before leaving the workforce (salaried) completely, I gotta do a try-run, like a mini-retirement. Do you have to quit in order to do that, or is it possible to have unpaid leave for such a period of time? Does your plans depend somehow on your financial progress till FI, or do you do it either way?

classical_Liberal
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Re: 2Birds1Stones' 28 month hustle to freedom!

Post by classical_Liberal »

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2Birds1Stone
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Re: 2Birds1Stones' 28 month hustle to freedom!

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

wolf wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:23 am
That situation with your job sounds really challening and is totally uncontrollable for you, I guess. But you couldn't have prevented that, could you? Nobody knows when layoffs happen. I kind of admire you in the States because of your own mental flexibility and adaptability in your job market, meaning that you are able to adjust fast and spontaneous to new job circumstances, comparing to European's job culture. Well, I hope for you that you can stay at your job. Better having a job, than looking for some, I guess.

Your plan about taking a sabbatical impresses me. That sounds cool. Will it be like a mini-retirement? I kind of like the idea behind it and I too maybe will do something like that. Before leaving the workforce (salaried) completely, I gotta do a try-run, like a mini-retirement. Do you have to quit in order to do that, or is it possible to have unpaid leave for such a period of time? Does your plans depend somehow on your financial progress till FI, or do you do it either way?

Hello wolf,

I think that my ability to take things in stride with work is a result of a fairly portable profession (sales), and the FU $ I have accumulated up to this point. I do understand that walking away from a job in European and Asian culture is more taboo.

It would be like a mini-retirement, but more so a long vacation while practicing low spending, alternate income source generation, and freedom to do things without having time constraints.

My understanding is that some companies will allow you to take an unpaid sabbatical, but there is no guarantee that your position will be held. I would likely quit if I am still employed, unless the first option works with my employer.

I will take at least 6 months regardless of where I am in terms to FI. At that point, I will be working full time for ~19 years and 10 of these in a Megacorp style career. It's time for a break.
classical_Liberal wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:58 am
@2B1S
This job situation sounds like the proverbial "gift horse"...

You've been pretty browned-out for quite some time and craving the sabbatical. You'll never find a better time to take it, when your getting unemployment checks! No need to dip into the capital, take 6 mo's or a year (I'm sure you'd get enough between UE and dividends to last a year or two) and enjoy life. I bet the time away will provide you a new perspective going forward. I think we tend to get so caught up in fast accumulation, sometimes it's hard to see all the other viable paths. With the assets you have now and low spending, virtually any small income source will keep you afloat for the rest of your life. If priorities change in the future, you can change with them.
I think you hit the nail on the head, the timing would be off in terms of my plans, but it would be a good opportunity to downshift and take some time to myself. If I do get laid off/fired and UE is available, I will definitely take advantage as long as I can.

In regards to long term sustainability, it's hard to say. I've done the thought exercise and have some scenarios in my spreadsheet for these types of situational analysis.

My bare-bones spending would be ~$1300/month or $16,000/yr. I define this as my first FI #, $400k.

At that point, I would feel pretty comfortable walking away from a job, or taking periods of under/semi employment to explore other interests. I would not feel comfortable long term though, as we get older needs/wants change, and human capital diminishes.

My seconds FI "bend point" is the $600k or $2k/month mark. That is where my current spending is, and I feel like I could take longer periods of no employment, sprinkling in some work to let the portfolio grow.

My third FIRE bend point, were I feel that I could never work again and not have to worry about eating cat food in old age is $1M allowing $40k/yr in spending into perpetuity. I am in no rush to get to this number, if it takes decades of on and off work that would be ideal. I want to take advantage of lucrative and/or fun means of earning income, while also taking advantage of the ability to travel and pursue things for non financial reasons.


At bend point one, I would like to earn enough to live off + add to 401k/Roth IRA. Which means earning at least $50-60k/yr gross.

At bend point two, I would like to earn enough to cover between 50-100% of my expenses without having to add any additional funds to the stache.
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wolf
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Re: 2Birds1Stones' 28 month hustle to freedom!

Post by wolf »

2Birds1Stone wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:24 pm
I will take at least 6 months regardless of where I am in terms to FI. At that point, I will be working full time for ~19 years and 10 of these in a Megacorp style career. It's time for a break.
That sounds great. I did a sabbatical for 7 months after working 11 years full-time. 5 out of that 7 months I travelled to "Down Under". It was a great time. If I talk with someone else about it, it feels good. You can have so many life experiences which are really worth it. Go for it!

classical_Liberal
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Re: 2Birds1Stones' 28 month hustle to freedom!

Post by classical_Liberal »

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2Birds1Stone
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Re: 2Birds1Stones' 28 month hustle to freedom!

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

Excellent points, and a lot to think about.

1) if my employment were to abruptly end before my planned exit date, I would definitely take the sabbatical. As you said, no better time than while collecting some sort of UI or severance. Waiting till 2020 however, is not that bad in my mind. I have been doing the whole OLY thing since discovering the concept of FIRE and getting more comfortable with a plan I will actually execute. 2020 will put me right before my 32nd birthday, pretty young to be taking a gap year/semi fire/whatever you want to call it. There's definitely a ton of people that do a lot of OMY syndrome, but in my case, I would like borderline FI before I felt comfortable turning off the cash hose.

2) Great point, I'm sure my plan will morph and change as time goes one. One thing is for sure, regardless of what comes first (unemployment or 2020) I won't be working past my date (unless something catastrophic happens).

2Birds1Stone
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Re: 2Birds1Stones' 28 month hustle to freedom!

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

Welp, having 12 months of expenses evaporate from your net worth in 2 weeks feels weird.

jacob
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Re: 2Birds1Stones' 28 month hustle to freedom!

Post by jacob »

Try evaporating 7 years ... and not having it feel weird(*). (I was at 129 and went to 122 for -5%)

(*) Been there, done that [in 2008/09].

2Birds1Stone
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Re: 2Birds1Stones' 28 month hustle to freedom!

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

jacob wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:40 pm
Try evaporating 7 years ... and not having it feel weird(*). (I was at 129 and went to 122 for -5%)

(*) Been there, done that [in 2008/09].
I wonder if I would feel different if I had 129X annual expenses stached away lol.

Thought Exercise, Could I ERE Now?

Sometimes I wonder what life would be like if I just quit work tomorrow. How would I adapt to living on $1000/month. I would need to move into a camper/van/rv/boat most likely.....or I guess I would prefer to, since It would allow for a more nomadic lifestyle.

Staying in my current apartment, which is cheap for the area would allow me to live on the remaining $. If I downgraded the car or got rid of it completely, it's entirely doable.

The only thing I would likely struggle with, is health insurance and health related expenses, which from history can be large and unexpected.

The idea of a live-aboard sailboat has been something I've been intrigued by over the past month or so. I have found many cruisers who are able to sail full time on less than $2k/month including boat maintenance.
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2Birds1Stone
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Re: 2Birds1Stones' 28 month hustle to freedom!

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

OLY Syndrome

I hear a lot about OMY (one more year) syndrome on MMM forums as well as other retirement forums (boglegheads, early-retirement, etc.) I can get the allure of shooting for that extra layer of security, especially when someone is nearing the final phase of their career and employability and wants to ensure they never have to work again. Then again, people get stuck chasing "enough", and work way longer than they needed to.

I'm struggling with the opposite concept. I find it hard to believe that I would never again do something that brings in income, regardless of how much. I have had this grand plan to cut the chord on my 10 year megacorp anniversary and take a plan sabbatical, to test out the FI lifestyle for quite some time now. I originally started with the goal of RE by 50 (in 2012), then in 2014 when switched careers it changed to 2027 (age 40), and after a successful first 18 months I made the new goal 2022 (age 35). Over the past year, I've pared down spending a lot, have embraced the idea of seriously downsizing or using geographical arbitrage, and have come to terms with the fact that I may have to return to work for a few years if things don't pan out with market returns, quality of life, unexpected events outside of my control with family, health, SO's family/health, etc. I made the new goal April 1, 2020. A hair after my 10 year anniversary of 45-50 hour weeks between my two Megacorp employers.

It seemed like it would be soon enough, yet every day I am trying to lay down a plan that can cut days, weeks, or months off that timeline. It will never be "enough", and some risk is always inherent.

Starting that interview process with several employer candidates last week made me realize, that my heart is really not in it. I don't want another job if this one pans out. I don't really know what I want at this point. I wouldn't really be able to slow travel or get rid of my apartment with SO still working. So I don't know if a long term break would be the best idea right now, but at the same time, I really don't want to join a new company, spend 6-12 months learning the ropes, only to quit shortly after.

The other option is going to part time work completely out of my field. There are plenty of seasonal outdoor or interesting jobs here that could potentially help me learn/hone other skills, get out of an office, and early *some* money, whether it's enough to cover 100% of my expenses or not remains to be seen, but I would definitely be turning off the fire-hose of income I've grown so accustomed to.

c'est la vie
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jacob
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Re: 2Birds1Stones' 28 month hustle to freedom!

Post by jacob »

I think OMY depends on how the money was made. Insofar it was a single high-income job/career, people would understandably/wisely realize that it would be hard to get such an income again after retiring. On top of that they might also not have the experience in working other kinds of jobs in and out/from time to time. Finally, there's the significantly larger spending/stashes required in those forums.

Conversely, those who are used to jumping around and living on little money might not even consider FI in the first place, but rather operate on a work-save-rest-spend cycle knowing they can always and easily find a job and make whatever money they need.

I think people on this forum are somewhere in between those two extremes.

2Birds1Stone
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Re: 2Birds1Stones' 28 month hustle to freedom!

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

I think my focus should shift to getting toward the later extreme. All of my money has been made in a corporate setting. I have no degree and with a profession in sales, I think employment in the future would not be an issue, but I would hate to HAVE to go back to a cubicle for several years to make ends meet.

classical_Liberal
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Re: 2Birds1Stones' 28 month hustle to freedom!

Post by classical_Liberal »

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2Birds1Stone
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Re: 2Birds1Stones' 28 month hustle to freedom!

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

It's a combination of both.

My initially nomadic lifestyle desires would prevent me from being able to take on a part time job. So it would have to be some sort of creative income streams that I have not yet identified. My biggest struggle, as Jacob pointed out, is that almost all of my income to this point has been earned from my career. I am sure future PT work can happen, and if I could sustain my lifestyle on that income it could mean my investments growing in the background. I just worry about suddenly going from accumulating 2X annual expenses a year, to spending 1X annual expenses when we are only at ~9X combined.

The kids and house thing does not interest me, but a more "middle class" lifestyle might appeal once we are tired of traveling and not having a place to "call home". Priorities change, the world is changing, and I struggle with balancing future and current desires. I might not want to live on $20k/yr indefinitely, nor might that be sustainable long term.

Being at a turning point in my career, has me questioning so many things about my short and long term goals.

classical_Liberal
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Re: 2Birds1Stones' 25 month hustle to freedom!

Post by classical_Liberal »

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