White Belt's Military Journey to FI

Where are you and where are you going?
mooretrees
Posts: 762
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:21 pm

Re: White Belt's Military Journey to FI

Post by mooretrees »

I'm partial to metal toe clips for bicycle pedals. I like their firmness and you can just use normal shoes with them. Here's an example I found on amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/MKS-STL-Toe-Clip ... 5001072927

I bet any bicycle repair shop would have some used ones hanging out.

white belt
Posts: 1452
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 12:15 am

Re: White Belt's Military Journey to FI

Post by white belt »

mooretrees wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:59 am
I'm partial to metal toe clips for bicycle pedals. I like their firmness and you can just use normal shoes with them. Here's an example I found on amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/MKS-STL-Toe-Clip ... 5001072927

I bet any bicycle repair shop would have some used ones hanging out.
Do you use them with leather straps or just on their own? It seems prices are comparable to the velcro straps and I'm sure the metal toe clips are more durable.

mooretrees
Posts: 762
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:21 pm

Re: White Belt's Military Journey to FI

Post by mooretrees »

I've used them just on their own. Lower profile and they do the job just fine.

white belt
Posts: 1452
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 12:15 am

Re: White Belt's Military Journey to FI

Post by white belt »

@mooretrees

Thanks for the recommendation, I'm going to give the metal toe clips a try.
__________________________________


I still hate how much I rely on electricity for daily living tasks. For example, today the power was out when I got home from the gym, which meant that I couldn't open the fridge to get the food for my post-workout meal and I also couldn't cook anything because the kitchen has an electric stove. I ended up waiting a few hours then making a casein protein powder pudding to hold me over until the power came back on. I know I can't completely remove my reliance on electricity in my current lifestyle, but I'd like to at least be able to cope with anything up to a 24 hour outage with minimal disruption. So far we've averaged about one power outage a month since I moved and they have ranged from 4-12 hours. I have a few ideas that I'll go into down below to address this issue.

The first and likely simpler issue to fix is that of cooking without electricity. I've been pondering getting a simple camping stove and 20lb propane tank for just this situation. I also like having the option of cooking outside if it's very hot and I don't want to further heat up the inside of the (no A/C) kitchen. I suppose I also could take it to some kind of outdoor social events or camping if I ever had the need to. I will need to talk to my landlord to figure out if he is comfortable with me keeping it on the porch, but it shouldn't be an issue since I see multiple people with porch grills in the neighborhood. Propane also comes in handy in just about any emergency scenario.

The second issue is a bit more challenging. I've already been working more on incorporating canned goods into my cooking so now I feel pretty comfortable using things like canned fish and canned veggies. I haven't yet started canning anything myself but that is on my list of skills to add soon, especially since I will need it when I get my dwarf fruit trees. I wish eggs in the USA weren't power washed so they could be stored at room temperature. One day my own quail eggs will solve this but for now I'm stuck with what I get at the grocery store.

Ok, so I've been increasing my use of dry and canned goods which is a good start, but that still leaves the issue of all the things that need to be refrigerated. Again, I'm only concerned with up to 24 hours, which means I'm not concerned with food in the freezer spoiling. However, that still leaves all the daily items I access like leftover meals, eggs, milk, leafy vegetables like cabbage, and so on. My best idea is to incorporate an ice box from a common cooler as discussed here: viewtopic.php?p=242940#p242940

I'll be curious to experiment with how long the ice box can stay cold with giant blocks of ice in the bottom (made in the regualr freezer and swapped out once a week). The article I linked in one of my posts says they have managed for up to a week in 90 degree temps, which is far more extreme than what my ice box would need to withstand (likely closer to temps in 60-70 degrees at the hottest if I keep it in the coolest part of the house). Unfortunately I don't have a large cooler to test this on at the moment, so I'll have to ask around to see if anyone has a large one I can borrow. I'd rather proof the concept for a week or two before either buying a super-insulated cooler or adding insulation to a cheapo cooler.

theanimal
Posts: 2627
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:05 pm
Location: AK
Contact:

Re: White Belt's Military Journey to FI

Post by theanimal »

white belt wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:45 pm
I wish eggs in the USA weren't power washed so they could be stored at room temperature. One day my own quail eggs will solve this but for now I'm stuck with what I get at the grocery store.
You can still keep eggs stored at room temperature in the US. Most of the eggs my fiancee and I eat are store bought and we do not refrigerate them. They can stay for at least a month at at time. I'm not sure about longer, I don't think we have gone past 4 weeks yet but then again I haven't been tracking specifically. We buy 5 dozen at a time and there are some months where we are gone or otherwise busy and don't eat all the eggs within about a month. We have experienced 0 issues.

macg
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:48 pm
Location: USA-FL

Re: White Belt's Military Journey to FI

Post by macg »

Commercially bought eggs should not be stored at room temperature in the US.

Not necessarily because of the washing process alone, which does in fact make the egg more porous, and thus more susceptible to bacteria.

But because the eggs are refrigerated already, by law, immediately after cleaning - and so storing them at room temperature results in the eggs "sweating", which makes it far more likely to grow bacteria, which then is easy to get through the already-mentioned porous shell.

Most other countries do not have these cleaning/refrigeration laws, which is why the rest of the world stores their eggs at room temperature

white belt
Posts: 1452
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 12:15 am

Re: White Belt's Military Journey to FI

Post by white belt »

@theanimal @macg

I have seen both arguments made in regards to the egg debate. The official USDA stance is that commercially bought eggs should remain refrigerated due to risk of salmonella penetrating the shell since the bloom has been washed off. There is also risk associated with condensation.

On the other hand, I have heard of many people who keep commercially bought eggs at room temperature. One example is a submariner cook who said they often left eggs at room temperature due to lack of fridge space and never had any issues. Another person talked about simply wiping the condensation off the eggs a couple of times on the day they are placed at room temperature.

I actually kept eggs unrefrigerated (one dozen at a time) for up to a week in college that I'm just now remembering. At that time I wasn't familiar with the risks, but to be honest I think I'm comfortable with that level of risk since I only fry or scramble my eggs, so I'm fairly certain they are always getting cooked to 160 degrees to kill any salmonella. Of course everyone should make their own assessment based on risk, etc.

white belt
Posts: 1452
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 12:15 am

Re: White Belt's Military Journey to FI

Post by white belt »

I've been thinking more and more about getting to 1x JAFI expenses. I don't want to jinx myself yet since we're only halfway through September, but I'm on track for very low expenses this month. I've still been cooking all of my own food and I think I'm pretty much settled into that habit so I don't really crave going to restaurants anymore. I do find myself excited for the end of the month so that I can post my numbers and get a better feeling of progress, which perhaps is indicative that I still have more work to do in developing my life outside the old framework of spending/earning money.

It's pretty clear that I will never get to 1x JAFI expenses (currently $9217/~$770 a month) in my current housing arrangement ($800 all-inclusive rent). I mentioned that I have already optimized for the cheapest housing option available on the open market, which means I will need to turn to leveraging other forms of capital and/or into the realm of unconventional to lower my housing expenses. I think $400 is just about the upper limit for what I could spend on housing (including utilities) if I want any shot of spending in the 1x JAFI range.

Here are some possibilities off the top of my head:

-live with significant other, allowing me to split the expenses of a 1 bedroom (currently don't have a significant other but perhaps something that could occur in the future)

-cash purchase a house then do the typical house hacking thing (this has been extensively mentioned in earlier posts but is not advisable in current location due to high housing prices and the fact I will move in 2-3 years)

-arrange some kind of work exchange to get discounted rent (more on that below)


My only lead so far is to perhaps talk to my landlord and get a rent discount in exchange for doing some yard maintenance and other tasks. That might be easier if he leaves for a few months again because then he will need someone to do maintenance that he usually does. Even then I'm not sure that will net me more than $100-200 a month, but at least that's a start in the right direction. It's pretty clear I need to do some more development on my social network here.

I know @Jacob managed 1x JAFI in the expensive Bay Area with RV living, but I haven't found a similar solution yet in my own HCOL area. I know @Ego does property management in exchange for housing in a HCOL area. My WL is probably still too low. Maybe I'm focusing on the wrong thing since I'm only in this HCOL for my job and they pay me a tax-free housing allowance that is tied to the area (I pocket ~$1800 a month tax-free). Due to that tax-free money I'm coming out further ahead than I did when spending $500 for all-inclusive rent at my last duty station (I pocketed only ~$1000 a month then).

I'm open to some more ideas if anyone has experience in HCOL areas. My lease switches to month to month in November, which means that I will have the flexibility to move if I need to.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9369
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: White Belt's Military Journey to FI

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Obvious answer is to find a SO who earns significantly more than you, already has a place, and wants home-cooked meals.

white belt
Posts: 1452
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 12:15 am

Re: White Belt's Military Journey to FI

Post by white belt »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:23 pm
Obvious answer is to find a SO who earns significantly more than you, already has a place, and wants home-cooked meals.
Well I think that would certainly be an easy option. I will note that my last GF was a medical student with her own house, so not exactly a high earner yet but would have been in the near future. She definitely liked home-cooked meals and also said that she basically wants a house-husband. The Army moved me and she still had years left of medical school in GA so that came to an end.

As more and more of my friends from college are partnered up, I do very much realize that I am paying a "single" tax. Certainly there are costs associated with relationships, but there are also significant savings due to economies of scale with things like housing, food, transportation, etc. For dating, I have to spend way more maintaining a flow of new partners than I would have to maintain a relationship with one partner. The other issue is I'm not sure I want to commit myself to one sexual partner for the rest of my life at this juncture (it feels like it runs counter to every male biological urge, although I understand it is the norm in our current society). Maybe I just need some open marriage arrangement where I can still have flings on the side, but I suspect there aren't very many women my age (late 20s) who want to cohabitate and/or share significant financial assets with a person that doesn't want to fully commit to just them. There is also the lingering question of children that I haven't made a yay or nay decision on yet.

The other other issue is it's getting harder to find partners that earn significantly more than me (first world problem to the max). Not to sound too douchey, but I currently make $100k after tax. I also pay $0 for any and all medical/dental care. The data I found for my metro area puts median household after-tax take home pay at $75k, but I'm unsure if that is representative of my dating demographic (college educated, mid to late 20s usually). Right now I'm not blabbing about my income and savings in my day to day life because that would be weird, but it does bring up some ethical questions about what/when I should share with a SO. At some point a SO is going to learn that I make a fuckton of money and also have a fuckton of money saved, so I'm not sure how to square that with signalling financial vulnerability and exchanging cooking/home-making skills for free/discounted rent.

I'll admit that I'm not sure if I've ever dated a woman who earns significantly more than me, although I would be very much open to it (I suspect I'm getting filtered out at a very early stage for not overtly signalling wealth through flashy instagram, etc). I wonder if such a woman would be so focused on the consumerist treadmill that many of her values/interests might be quite antithetical to my current environmental/sustainability/ERE interests.

I do appreciate your input and I very much think my next focus should be on improving the system that is my dating/social life. I've made enormous gains by shifting to making all my own food, so further gains of DIY food production, bulk buying, etc will be diminishing (although I will still pursue them because I think they are worthwhile). My dating life on the other hand needs some disruption. I've lowered dating expenses the past month and half by pretty much just spending down capital that I already had built up with girls I met before, which means the lowered dating expenses with current design are not sustainable in the long run.

shaz
Posts: 420
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:05 pm
Location: Colorado, US

Re: White Belt's Military Journey to FI

Post by shaz »

@whitebelt I'm a little late chiming in on this one, but these straps are my preferred system if I am not using clip-in pedals. Power Grips Toe Straps https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0011ZH312/re ... 7GE9173YDY

I find them to be more convenient to use than the metal cages. The metal cages work best with specialized shoes.

Either way, you will definitely notice an improvement in your cycling performance once you have your feet attached to the pedals. It is impossible to have good pedaling mechanics if you can't pull through the bottom of the pedal stroke.

User avatar
Ego
Posts: 6358
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:42 am

Re: White Belt's Military Journey to FI

Post by Ego »

You might say something to your landlord about your desire to get into property management and offer to help if he is in a pinch. It could be a stepping stone to another position. Alternatively, start applying with PM companies listing part-time positions now. The labor market is tough right now so they may be willing to work around your day job. What have you got to lose? Go into it with the attitude that every interaction or problem that comes up is an opportunity to learn.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9369
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: White Belt's Military Journey to FI

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@white belt:

I was mostly joking with my suggestion, because my own Lentil Baby situations or schemes resulted in fail. Also, as you noted, with the exception of youth and cooking skills, you possess zero of the attributes or vulnerabilities that would tend to create financial flow in your direction within scope of relationship in our culture. Simple way to grok this flow is who is likely to pick up tab or how tab will be split when eating out.

OTOH, another option, which might be more than you want to take on right now, might be to offer up home repair/renovation services. Because such services are very expensive on open market, free room and board for even very part-time help should be possibility. I mean, even super-cheapskate me buys beverages and food for my friends who help with rehab. So, instead of looking for SO with huge income, look for one who just bought derelict fixer-upper.

white belt
Posts: 1452
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 12:15 am

Re: White Belt's Military Journey to FI

Post by white belt »

@Ego

I will definitely talk to my landlord. As far as I know this is the only property he owns but he is getting up there in age and I have already assisted him once with getting a new water heater into the basement. There may be other physical/repair tasks he would like assistance with.

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:54 am
I was mostly joking with my suggestion, because my own Lentil Baby situations or schemes resulted in fail. Also, as you noted, with the exception of youth and cooking skills, you possess zero of the attributes or vulnerabilities that would tend to create financial flow in your direction within scope of relationship in our culture. Simple way to grok this flow is who is likely to pick up tab or how tab will be split when eating out.

OTOH, another option, which might be more than you want to take on right now, might be to offer up home repair/renovation services. Because such services are very expensive on open market, free room and board for even very part-time help should be possibility. I mean, even super-cheapskate me buys beverages and food for my friends who help with rehab. So, instead of looking for SO with huge income, look for one who just bought derelict fixer-upper.
Gotcha. Yeah I wonder how having significant financial assets may be impacting the way I interact with the world. I believe Ego talked about the issue of financial capital leading to complacency/stagnation in multiple threads before. As a thought exercise, would I better attract financial/social flow if I gave all of my savings to charity or something? Maybe this is one reason why Rob Greenfield gave up his entire savings and vowed to keep both financial income and savings low? How would 7WB5's lifestyle look if she had $300k in the bank?

I am getting into this weird circumstance where my portfolio can act as my landlord/sugar daddy/patron/financier. My first thought on your second suggestion was that I've considered buying my own fixer upper and perhaps offering free room and board in exchange for labor. It's like every recommendation for allowing financial flow into my life just turns into "well I could just finance/do that myself". Perhaps this is one reason why 1x JAFI spending on >$100k income is so rare. The other issue is that due to extreme property values (3/2 house costs >$1 million) I would have to venture out at ~10 miles from my current location to find anything resembling fixer upper.

The reality is I'm still squarely in the salaryman quadrant. I suppose getting into some home repair/property management in exchange for rent discount would introduce some working man concepts. Developing another stream of income would provide some business man thinking. Then I mash it all together to get renaissance man? Not sure I'm far enough along to understand what that would exactly look like.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9369
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: White Belt's Military Journey to FI

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Well, one reason why the merchant mentality was looked down upon in previous eras was because it does tend towards making you think about everything in terms of money. The modern salaryman in some ways is more like the old school wealthy who derived their income from 5% government bonds, because income is pretty much locked in on relatively long term basis. OTOH, the Working Man and the Business Man are always on the hustle. One reason I started my meant-to-be-humorous analysis of resource flow related to dating was that as an independent book dealer, I almost always could be making some more money at the margin. So, if I was spending the night with a lover, maybe I wasn't hitting another sale first thing in the morning, etc. So, old guys who have money would be naturally compelled towards attempting to bribe me out of my youthful hustling masculine energy back into my relaxed mature feminine energy.
How would 7WB5's lifestyle look if she had $300k in the bank?
Not very different than it looks now. On my current list of things that are keeping me from doing what I want to do, "money" is tied for 5th position with "first world guilt", and Number 1 with a bullet would be inflammatory bowel disease. Even in a world of iron-clad 5% government bonds, $300,000 would only yield income of $15,000/year (barely above poverty level), and I can obviously pretty easily make that much money doing a variety of things I otherwise enjoy or find fulfilling, even in my current quite decrepit condition. I might be tempted to throw more money at my rehab/permaculture project, but then I would have to concern myself more with whether or not "good investment", so bit of a vicious cycle.

white belt
Posts: 1452
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 12:15 am

Re: White Belt's Military Journey to FI

Post by white belt »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:12 am
Well, one reason why the merchant mentality was looked down upon in previous eras was because it does tend towards making you think about everything in terms of money. The modern salaryman in some ways is more like the old school wealthy who derived their income from 5% government bonds, because income is pretty much locked in on relatively long term basis. OTOH, the Working Man and the Business Man are always on the hustle. One reason I started my meant-to-be-humorous analysis of resource flow related to dating was that as an independent book dealer, I almost always could be making some more money at the margin. So, if I was spending the night with a lover, maybe I wasn't hitting another sale first thing in the morning, etc. So, old guys who have money would be naturally compelled towards attempting to bribe me out of my youthful hustling masculine energy back into my relaxed mature feminine energy.
To be clear, I do not want to think about everything in terms of money. This is something that has only emerged over the past 2 months since I started really trying to lower my spending. I'd much rather focus on building skills, cool projects, etc etc but my spending was way too high to justify doing such things without first lowering it. For example, I was trying to grow container vegetables and microgreens while still spending hundreds of dollars a month eating at restaurants. Pareto says I should focus on the biggest expense categories first so focusing on the skill of cooking in the immediate term made the most sense. I get that the renaissance man should be able to do both simultaneously, but I find that I have to focus my energy more narrowly if I want to make lasting changes.

I think over the past year and a half, I've been trying to see myself as moving towards WL6 post-consumer with a blindspot to my actual spending. I wanted to focus on the sexy permaculture projects and CC solutions without coming to terms with the fact that I am still very much in a consumer mindset. There were (are) some WL4/5 steps that still needed to be fleshed out and I think I was looking ahead instead of doing the hard but necessary work now.

I'll admit at the moment I don't feel as if I have a strong sense of hustle. For years, hustle translated into going the extra mile at work, but now my new position is largely stagnated and there is just not much work to be done. For a while my energy was directed into strength training and nutrition, but now those habits are both internalized. Hustling in my career also doesn't produce extra income, although I still attempt to do my best while at work because a part of me still believes in the purpose and because I find being engaged more rewarding than just mentally checking out. Even so, due to the reactionary nature of my current position, I have a ton of downtime when I'm in the office on most days.

In a way, I'm trying to regain that sense of hustle, but I haven't yet found a good channel for it. Maybe helping with property management is a step in the right direction. I've also been learning to trade options for income generation, but I'm not so certain that's a great hustle to get me to stop thinking about things in terms of money. I've read a handful of business books before but I haven't yet been able to come up with any sort of side hustle that might leverage my current skills. I guess the closest I've come is just insourcing DIY skills like cooking, car repair, and bicycle repair.

I'm not sure if fatalism is the right word, but there is a bit of a sense of apathy that I'm really trying to fight. I'm locked into my current career for another 2.5 years no matter what. There is no quitting, reducing hours to part time, relocating, or anything like that. With my current portfolio and my newly lowered expenses over the past few months, I already have ~20 years of expenses saved. Due to my absurd income, I'm on track to continue to save 80% after tax for the next 2.5 years. Putting it together means I will likely have a ~3% SWR when I am able to leave full-time work. But I'm well aware that alone a self-actualized life does not make. I also don't see a scenario where I don't generate any income for the next 50 years of my life expectancy following retirement from my full time job.

The sensation in the above paragraph is I think what was the fuel to dig more into permaculture and the intricacies of setting up an urban homestead project (with the initial COVID19 pandemic as another catalyst). I realized that I will still need rewarding challenges, systems to tinker with, and puzzles to solve for the rest of my life. I also realized that I might end up with more money than I need, so perhaps there is a way to funnel some of it into post-collapse infrastructure for the betterment of my community and maybe society itself. I've read through the threads on spending for charity, how the rich want access/optionality/control, and related topics but I'd say I'm still very early on in forming my opinion of all of that stuff.

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:12 am
Not very different than it looks now. On my current list of things that are keeping me from doing what I want to do, "money" is tied for 5th position with "first world guilt", and Number 1 with a bullet would be inflammatory bowel disease. Even in a world of iron-clad 5% government bonds, $300,000 would only yield income of $15,000/year (barely above poverty level), and I can obviously pretty easily make that much money doing a variety of things I otherwise enjoy or find fulfilling, even in my current quite decrepit condition. I might be tempted to throw more money at my rehab/permaculture project, but then I would have to concern myself more with whether or not "good investment", so bit of a vicious cycle.
Right, I understand that you have had a consistent level of spending for many years and your environmental imperative is extremely strong. However, I was more implying that the lentil baby concept likely would have never been necessary if you had enough $$$ to bankroll all of your own adventures and still maintain some autonomy. Jacob put the trap of high income/high savings another way in an old thread that I resonates very strongly with me:
jacob wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 5:00 pm
As a result, I developed ERE as an outlet for the boredom of white collar slavery. However, had I been born into a mid/upper-class family (in which I wasn't the first to graduate something beyond HS) in the US who knew how and what game to play, I consider it extremely likely that I would have turned into a successful midly-six-fig earner, prob. working in the defense industry. In that case, that might have been sufficiently interesting in terms of advancement/oppotunity and if so then there would have been no such thing as ERE.
I was born in that mid/upper-class family. I make 6 figures now in the defense industry but my salary is about half what it would be if I simply got out of the military and worked as a contractor doing the exact same job.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9369
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: White Belt's Military Journey to FI

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

However, I was more implying that the lentil baby concept likely would have never been necessary if you had enough $$$ to bankroll all of your own adventures and still maintain some autonomy
The lentil baby concept wasn’t financially necessary for me except to the extent that I was trying to get my expenses below 1 jacob (see 1st world guilt above) and I couldn’t afford to do that by the method of paying cash for house in middle class neighborhood. Also it actually originated (but was not yet named Lentil Baby)before I joined ERE based on my studies of sexual dichotomy theory and my prior goal to have sex every day which is hard to do if you don’t live with your lover. Also, the primary reason I got trapped in my last terrible live-in relationship was one of the two most common psychological reasons why stupid women get trapped in relationships with jerks which is that I am too nice and too wimpy.

My new solution for global climate change is put all the stupid head jerks in a rocket with Jeff Bezos and never let them come back!

white belt
Posts: 1452
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 12:15 am

Re: White Belt's Military Journey to FI

Post by white belt »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:56 pm
The lentil baby concept wasn’t financially necessary for me except to the extent that I was trying to get my expenses below 1 jacob (see 1st world guilt above) and I couldn’t afford to do that by the method of paying cash for house in middle class neighborhood.
Right and in the same vain I can afford to get to 1x JAFI by paying cash for house in middle class neighborhood (although not in current temporary location). It is not actually financially necessary for me to attempt to negotiate work exchange with landlord, but is necessary from the perspective that I’m trying to get near 1x JAFI for similar 1st world guilt reasons, although I still wrestle with this as well since there are so few people my age (0 in my social circle) that care at all for such a thing. Maybe I should just continue my lifestyle with minor adjustments at ~$2k a month spending and just not worry about it? I don’t think this will lead to long term satisfaction though.

In other words, I’m forced to clarify the extent to which I’m seeking financial independence for freedom vs the extent I’m trying to reduce absolute spending due to environmental motivation. It was easier to hide behind the FIRE banner when my net worth and savings rate were lower, but now I must come to terms with the fact that if I’m going to keep lowering spending it won’t be for financial reasons. This is a harder sell and is more alienating to my peers/family/society (even as an INTJ, I am a still a social animal).

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9369
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: White Belt's Military Journey to FI

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Yeah, in my experience, global collapse is an even less popular conversation topic than inflammatory bowel disease. OTOH, I think this might be partially due to the fact that most people are more motivated by "doing" than "not doing." So, if you demonstrate or talk about becoming more of a producer rather than less of a consumer, it's much more palatable. There's more freedom inherent in generalized metric like 1 jacob, because bajillion different ways (in theory) an individual could achieve that goal, but specific items such as "growing my own tomatoes", "fixing my own water heater and adding energy saving features" and "riding a bike" will be more popular than "never going to restaurants", "never taking hot showers", or "never driving a car." The ascetical bent only exists in 10% of population at most*, my theory is that this is in direct negative correlation to the percentage of men who possess erotic sensation in their nipples. IOW, it is most prevalent in "locked Dominants."

*Definitely not eNTP me! Cheap or clever substitution is my frugal modus operandi.

Scott 2
Posts: 2824
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:34 pm

Re: White Belt's Military Journey to FI

Post by Scott 2 »

If the goal is environmental, can't you have greater impact spending intentionally? A simple example - buying locally sourced food that is sustainably grown and pays the workers a living wage. Maybe a pepper should cost $3.

I get the renaissance man ideal, but low spending is a byproduct, not the driver. Chasing 1 Jacob is an attempt to back into it. It's not the only path there. That lifestyle has time demands that also come at an opportunity cost. Broadly diversifying your sinks of human capital is expensive, relative to how society values them.

If your goal is to influence societal change in any direction, interdependence through specialization will have much more impact. You can already see that in the degree to which your work is compensated. The ability to make exceptional contribution gives you far greater leverage.

Post Reply