Ella's Journal

Where are you and where are you going?
ellarose24
Posts: 175
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:44 am

Re: Ella's Journal

Post by ellarose24 »

A question that plagued me in my 20s and now seems to be coming into realization is "who do you want to be?" Both defining that and then applying it has been extremely hard.

The pull tends to come from my own values and the values needed to be successful, and the pull between the two.

I think, especially as a woman, and more than that a woman in sales, I have not so far been able to compartmentalize the need to be superficial, "fake", focused on outward appearances and social norms. My early to mid 20s were essentially me throwing a fit and rebelling in every way I could, my mid to late 20s were me utterly rejecting, and because of that failing, at least professionally. I am just now in a place of acceptance, and it feels like I'm learning 20 years too late.

Because I grew up with an unconventional family, a mentally ill mother, and no grasp on what is normal/appropriate socially--I never understood people's ability to--what I called--"put on a mask" from one environment to the next. I now understand this is normal and expected, and taught--at least to well adjusted people--when they are quite young. If someone had just explained to me that we are all using tools to get ahead, I would have been okay. But the corporate double-speak of "be authentic! Be yourself! Be an individual" confused me. I did not understand that people and institutions could say one thing and mean another, and the realization that they did left me extremely confused and upset.

That is all to say that "who I am" has absolutely nothing to do with how I appear at work, which is obvious to many, but wasn't to me.

As a feminist, I have really been grappling with the inherent consumerism in what it means to be "a woman" and especially a "good woman." By that I mean, especially in the politics of a corporation, the persona you take on for sales, etc etc... my granola loving, hippie ways really aren't appealing. I have never been concerned with makeup, clothing, name-brand items. In fact, focusing on those things feels extremely counterintuitive to my values. Neither do I like the exhausting and nausea-inducing forced positivity, "branding yourself," "I'm GREAT how are you!?" that is needed in a corporate environment to be like-able, which means promotable.

I was promoted quickly out of college because I was working with salt-of-the-earth, blue collar workers who had just happened to save. People who had $500K to $1mm in savings through their retirement were my clientele. I had moved up far enough to be working supporting C-level executives, Sales VPs, multibillion dollar advisory firms, etc. And that is where I began to fail, and fail gravely. Being nice no longer paid off. In that environment, social norms are paramount. Your "brand" has to be easily consumable, otherwise it is nothing.

I stepped back from that role--my mental health couldn't handle it at the time, but I also had not learned, nor accepted, what was needed. I could not STAND feeling fake, I always felt as if they could sniff out how different I was. The women at this level were perfectly manicured--perfect hair, perfect makeup, perfect clothes, perfect car. I now see that it is a uniform that all women on this level (and I'm sure men too), but that all women put on because it is needed to exist within these hierarchies. But I, at the time, did not believe this was a uniform. I thought it was natural to them, and not natural to me, and so--I couldn't do it.

My current career is really just customer service for extremely wealthy clients. It pays decent, is almost zero stress, and being "nice" is good enough. But when I think about that question--"who do I want to be"--there is a bit more at play.

Despite sincerely wanting children, and having had wanted children since before I can remember, I have to accept that given my mental illness, my genetics, the fact that my partner also has the same mental illness on his side (his maternal grandmother was schizoaffective)--I cannot willingly bring a child into this world. Callously, I think children should only be brought in at this point if they have a high chance of both success and altruism. Meaning, I would want my child to be a net positive on the world. And with severe mental illness, there is usually not more ahead of you than survival unless you are lucky enough to find treatment that works.

I am already supremely grateful that I've found remission, I don't want to test my luck. And I don't want to get into my view on sustainability and the environment in general, but I will simply say that reinforces my decision to not have children, or at the very least it helps me feel better about it.

But still, the very human desire to have some sort of legacy lives on. As new team member's send their Biographies in--talking about their children being their motivation, i feel a pang of envy and also inadequacy. What i do seems so selfish, simply living and bringing pleasure to myself.

So what DO I want to do? I have been trying to live each day under the motivation of making the world better, not worse, for having me in it. The energy I consume, the natural resources, the amount of human labor needed to fulfill my wants, needs, and desires--how can I make all of that worth it for having me in it? Again, the guilt of even existing in a world that is so dependent on exploitation is a problem that bothers me.

I used to think that by reducing my own dependency on consumerism, products, etc--I could do the least damage. This is part of why Early Retirement Extreme appealed to me. It also comforted a fear I had to be dependent on anyone, ever. My dreams were of a self sustaining cottage, away from others, $1mm in the bank to live on in perpetuity.

My diagnosis, medications, episodes...etc.. obliterated that dream. I will have to be, at some level, dependent on others. Dependent on my job for good health insurance, dependent on a support system, doctors, medication. Truly, being independent is terrifying as I am not even half as reliable as the people and institutions that makes sure I am okay. And I hated that for quite some time, I was miserable.

But I have a different perspective now. I think this dependence has helped bring it about--and I am grateful for that. I cannot escape these institutions that I depend on, so what can I do? Use them as efficiently as possible to instill my own values. Instead of viewing myself as the long-haired, bra-less hippie living on my sustainable farm, I imagine myself more as a successful and confident women. And I imagine that not because I like the trope of "Bad Bitch" or whatever the current meme is of women-who-are-empowered, but because I see that women using social norms as a tool to gain more power. And with more power I can do more good.

I think children that come from well-adjusted and successful families are taught this early on, but I am learning it just now. The "mask" you wear is a tool. I rejected that mask outright, but now I am learning how to wear it seamlessly. This is relevant because I have to engage in some consumerism that feels counter to my identity. Buying and wearing makeup, spending time focusing on my hair, learning corporate pleasantries, refusing to show weakness unless it gives me personal gain, buying wealth signifiers purely for the social benefit it gets me with clients and colleagues. Those are all things I found absolutely disgusting before but now see them as useful, and I'm okay with it.

Onto finances.

401k contributions were moved up to 25% since all debt is paid off.

HSA is being maxed out, but spending it just as soon as I put the money in. Not feeling guilty about it.

Have started a $200 monthly contribution to a local non-profit helping bring back native eco regions

Have started an $80 subscription to a clothing rental service, 6 garments a month. I think this is a nice middle point between trying to stay sustainable while also engaging in the consumerism needed for my corporate brand.

In 2 months, they will start posting for promotions. When I started this job, I originally said I would stay in it forever because of the low stress. I am working closely with my doctor and support system to make sure I keep stress levels down. I may want a years worth of stability under my belt. I'm trying to balance pushing myself while maintaining mental health.

I'm researching effective altruism as much as I possibly can. It is primarily what is making me feel pressured to move up the corporate latter and increase my income stream. But I have to remember I have a variable others don't, which is mental illness.

Stasher
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Re: Ella's Journal

Post by Stasher »

Dependent on my job for good health insurance, dependent on a support system, doctors, medication.
You post was so honest and powerful, it is unfortunate as you say that women need to wear such an unhealthy "work uniform" as you observed. Working corporate sales for portion of my career as well as some time in politics I agree completely with you.

As for the quote I copied from you above, this is truly sad and honestly to me heartbreaking. It is the one thing that I feel badly for my American friends and forum members here about. No person should have to be chained to work for their entire lives just to get universal health care. I am grateful to be north of the 49th parallel on this topic. That being said the one place that desperately needs reform in Canada is that mental health needs to be brought into the system completely and become part of the full health care stream. Mental health and Physical health should be treated equally and services/support offered equally.

ertyu
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Re: Ella's Journal

Post by ertyu »

As I read this, I was reminded of Your Money Or Your Life, where the entirety of the work uniform -- including the fancy car, the make-up, beauty procedures, etc -- are very explicitly considered to be a cost of being employed. When calculating one's actual income, one is advised to subtract from one's salary all "auxiliary" expenses one incurs to secure the "uniform" and status signifiers explicitly or implicitly required by one's job. One's appearance, when one is client-facing, is a facet of customer service. Maintaining that appearance is a cost of doing one's job that the employers have pushed onto us.

I also relate to needing to sink or swim when it comes to learning social capital -- which one isn't even aware is there to be learned, in the beginning. You are correct in what you are describing. There is a reason why the preppy jocks are the upper middle class kids and the punks and metalheads tend to be working class. As an INFP, I also relate deeply to the importance you used to place on authenticity as a core value. It is, indeed, a learning curve when it comes to nailing down the performance one is supposed to be putting up at work. At some customer-facing roles, this is directly codified. For instance, I read that at Starbucks, part of employee training includes, "if the customer says/does X, I will say/react with Y." A part of why this is codified at Starbucks and not at fancy sales positions is that Starbucks' employee pool is drawn from the poorer, lower-class end of the social bell curve whereas sales roles typically go to bleached cheerleader business / communications majors whose moms sent them to school with two suitcases of brand clothes and a directive that Ds get degrees and college is for making connections. All this was to say, what you talked about isn't simply a matter of what gets taught to functional vs. dysfunctional people. It's cultural capital, and it's a matter of social class.

I love your solution of clothing rental. If one needs to be on-trend, it's much cheaper than buying the latest of fashions oneself.

I also agree with taking care of yourself and your physical and mental health first. Increasing your income stream might help you practice effective altruism better, but you can practice no altruism, effective or otherwise, if you are out of commission. Stay strong, stay well, and take care of yourself. Wish you much success.

ellarose24
Posts: 175
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:44 am

Re: Ella's Journal

Post by ellarose24 »

Thank you to both replies^^ I appreciate it. And ertyu--what you are saying is truly something that has been a crazy realization to me. Part of the socialization, learning to put on the mask, etc, is why people succeed. I something think there must be some planned reason corporations and modern culture emphasizes "not caring about what people think," "being yourself" "being authentic." Perhaps those socialized better understand that means simply within the confines of normalcy, but for me--I didn't get it. I know my more well-to-do friends had parents that always told them "whatever you do reflect ons the family name" and I thought it was awful at the time, but now think it's a great lesson.

The first wave of promotions at my job has happened. I wasn't approached about a promotion, I'm not sure if others were--but we have been told the posting were going up and to feel free and apply. I did not. The day that the promotions were announced, I had just talked to my manager about the fact that I felt like I wanted to stay in the role I was in for a bit longer. I am going to start studying for my CFP again was the reason I gave, but I am alo still on the journey to being stable. One of my main goals is "show up to work everyday," and i think that speaks to the fact that I am not ready to take on more responsibility.

Once I get my CFP, which is paid for, I will get a $5K raise immediately. It's not much, but that's something. From there, I will apply to the next role up, and continue looking at certifications. Given my company pays for any certifications, as well as continuing education, I plan on (as long as I'm well and healthy) studying in perpetuity. I actually really enjoy studying, so it might help. It's also (the CFP) self paced. The last time I took it, I did pass the first two modules, but backed out as there were regimented classes that you physically had to show up for--taking away 8 hours of my Saturday and 4 of my Sunday. I'm not doing that again.

We had a hail storm and need a new roof. I thought I was smart not answering the storm-chasers. I went through my insurance. My SO didn't know the age of our roof so said "15 years"--they are now claiming the roof is depreciated and non-recoverable. They're telling us that we will be paying, out of pocket, $8K--they're giving us $2k of a deductible.

I called a reputable contractor and he told me that the roof is fine, will hold up for several years, that he would probably do $1K work of work just to be sure. He also said he estimates the roof is 5 years old (we moved 2 years ago). But the insurance is claiming we need brand new everything, even gutters--simply because they are dented.

I know the risks of doing so, but I'm thinking about taking the money they gave (2K)--having the guy I trust do what he feels is most important for that amount, and having him come out after any other hail storms to patchwork fix until we buy a new roof altogether. I am planning on getting a new roof, as well as siding and gutters--in about 3 years. Just to have it done with. I know that doing this will null and void any future damage from storms, but I'm going to have him come look after every serious storm. He was pretty confident the roof was in good shape, just cosmetics.

Our AC also went out. I have always had a strange fantasy of living without AC. I cannot tell you why--I think it may have been because I read a book by Larry McMurtry (wrote Lonesome Dove)--can't remember much but it took place in TX in the 60s, and the main characters would sit by the windows in the evening, cold towels wrapped around their head, ice cream melting down their hands. And the last couple of days without it I've really enjoyed. Having the windows open, fresh air, birds outside, no mechanical noises. It just makes you feel more in tune with the environment. I really love the thought of my body adjusting to the weather outside, and being connected in that way.

However, I know that is romanticizing--so we will likely get that fixed as well. I'm kind of holding off as the spring weather is amazing and it gives me an excuse to have curtains blowing in the breeze.

I have realized that the items I own and the things I buy--my consumption--has not been at all intentional. I realized this as my bathroom and closet continued to become a terrible mess, after organizing and cleaning it for hours every other week, then back to mess. I don't appreciate items for what they are. For instance, I have 5 or 6 different face washes, picked up from hotels, bought from target or sephora, just whatever. Why? Because if one is out of site, I assume I don't have it, and I buy another. Sometimes I dig through my bathroom pantry looking for something, can't find it, buy another, and then find it 6 months later. There's no intention, it feels like I was making my exterior as messy and confused and strange as my brain.

So I've decided to do a sort of experiment. I reduced my bathroom items to just what is needed. Toothbrush, toothpaste, sunscreen, scent roller, shampoo and body wash and deodorant. A hair brush and one hair tie, and if I lose that hair tie, too bad. I did something similar with my closet. I have 10 items--threw the rest in garbage bags. This forces me to engage with each item extremely intentionally. Clothing wise, I'm wearing clothes stuck in the back of my closet for years. I'm learning which items I was hanging onto simply don't work for me anymore, and what needs to be gotten rid of. I'm learning to do my hair with a single clip and a silk scarf as my only items--because that's all I have--leading me to get really creative and learn different ways to use them. Coconut oil (i had a little bowl that I never used) is the only thing I use for makeup--I found it's great as lip balm and it also gives a temporary lift and sheen to eyelashes--as well as applied on my cheek bones for sheen.

I'm actually looking more put together than I have in the past 12 months--simply because reducing my choices allows intention and creativity. I do plan on adding one thing each month, and I made my items extremely austere simply so I can feel gratitude for them and for additions. (for instance, next month I'm adding face wash back instead of just using water and a towel--and I'm excited to do so)!

If something doesn't work, I'm getting rid of it. Starting with a purple piece of clothing I bought from a Renaissance Faire 10 years ago. It's a contraption type of clothing, that can be made into pants, a skit, a dress, a pillow (lol), I can't remember what else. I tried about all of them and decided--it's time to go. The novelty has worn off, and a 30 year old wearing these items just doesn't have the same appeal.

I'm walking 5,000-7000 steps a day. That may not seem like much, but my phone tells me last year I average 300 a day. That was in the midst of my worst depression. I found a nature trail close by and have been IDing all of the wildflowers and invasive weeds. In my own garden, the meadow I'm converting my lawn to has so far been a success. 4 different wildflowers are currently in bloom. And my SO, who was initially embarrassed by our lawn, is staring to appreciate it. I do wish I knew how to gather seed from the wildflowers I find on my walks--that's another project.

I've also dug up a cedar sapling next to it's mother (We have only one tree in our backyard--cedar elm)--and repotted it. I had tried, unsuccessfully, to pot 3 cedar sapling by pulling up the entirety of their roots--very carefully. This one I dug under the roots and potted. And it works! If it (or any of the other I eventually try with)--makes it, I will be planting a second elm in our backyard. That will reduce heating costs, block out the neighbors view, and increase property value (thought I don't want to leave this home any time soon.) Obviously--it would probably take 15 years or more to really get the benefit here lol. But the prospect makes me excited regarldess.

I am also growing a variety of herbs in our unused garage way. I'm trying to be all native, but I figured plants on pavement are better regardless, and we'll be able to eat them. Also some lettuce and other leafy greens.

My only big expense this month was a $130 gift box for our backdoor neighbor. When our fence was installed, they ran it through the internet line and that neighbor not only didn't have internet, but had a crew digging in their yard for 3 days. I really enjoy gift giving, and the box was really lovely--but yes overpriced. Perhaps because I'm limiting my own spending, I felt I could take liberties here. I need to work on that. But I have been playing around with the idea of having a fund of "donations" but instead of donating to charities--donating or gift giving to people directly in the community. For instance, there is an indian lady in our neighborhood whose husband passed away--she has 5 children, and she is always on nextdoor selling her homemade (and very delicious) food. She is very obviously stretched thin and struggling. I gave her $200 for Christmas and I really felt good doing so. She's part of my neighbor and I'd think making my direct community better will be a net positive for me as well. Building community up is important too--I've been largely isolated for the last several years. I'd also like to plant native shrubs and trees in the park near my house, maybe get a bench. The park is a field of dead grass currently. Those sort of things probably don't make as much of a difference as my cash donations, but selfishly, they make me feel really good. I think once my IRA is maxed out, I'll set aside a monthly allowance like that. I understand I am both unlucky but also privileged that my retirement day will--out of necessity--be in my late 60s. It allows me to engage in some of these things now instead of later.

Stasher
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Re: Ella's Journal

Post by Stasher »

The process you are putting in place for your excess things is an important one and a smart way to do it. Organizing is just a way to deal with things and doesn't help us manage our consumption. By getting rid of it all, even temporarily in boxes or bags packed in another room, enables us the ability to realize it was just physical noise and not actually needed.

ellarose24
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Re: Ella's Journal

Post by ellarose24 »

I had a slight break down the other day. I am very fearful that underneath my medications is a looming episode--I have been waking up at 4 AM, my production levels are off the charts (and I always wonder, is this just me not depressed, or should I be worried?) I noticed that food was tasting STRANGELY delicious. Heightened senses are another big sign.

Yesterday I baked a loaf of bread, sewed a pillow, and created some raised beds out of our old fence posts I asked them to leave.

Figuring out what triggers episodes is huge, and I have a very big suspicion it is light. My mother, for instance, because manic and then psychotic every single spring, and then evens out just as the days start getting shorter. There was a study where they found a man was cycling around the full moon, as the light in the sky did not let him sleep enough. I truly think it's the sun, vitamin d, something. It's long been established to be a problem with circadian rythms, but the sun makes me feel good, then REALLY good, then overstimulated.

Yesterday was all of those things--I've noticed my production is off the charts and I just cant sit still. I'm upping my seroquel. But after eating yesterday, it's like the lights became too bright, noises too loud, shapes became abstract.

One thing I am thankful for is that I have a plan in place. I wore blue-light blocking glasses the rest of the day and stayed indoors with the windows closed. Took a bath by candlelight. Reduce all exposure to light or any other stimulation the rest of the day. I even watched the masters with my partner, which I have decided is a worth-while sport in that there is no violence and it is calm and doesn't agitate me. Upped my medicine that night. Today was hard to wake up, which is a good sign.

However, I feel extremely depressed, embarrassed, ashamed. I don't think it is responsible for me to ever progress in my career because even now--at my most stable--I'm having these blips that just completely upend me. If I had been at work, I would have had to call in. My attendance is still not great, both because of doctor's appointments and "off"days--and I promised myself I would not file for FMLA or let this job know in any way that there is a problem. I understand that it will only make them view me as a liability. But still my reputation is hurt with these issues.

And I had been thinking the other day--I'll be promoted soon, I'm going to take it slow--but I know I can do the job. And it's true, I do know I can do the job, but doing the job and sustaining mental health are two separate things. Specifically--having people rely on me, having clients rely on me--and not knowing when I will be ill or not--it just isn't right to them and it isn't responsible for me to go that path. And it makes me so damn frustrated, because I also know that, without this illness, I would be really good at it.

I hear about people making 6 figures at my age and I KNOW that I could be too, well--no I can't. Because any job with even a modicum of follow up and relationship building is out the window for me. Unknown reasons for me to be out of the office, not calling back, overwhelmed catching up after an episode, guilt and stress during an episode knowing what I will come back to--those are all things that happened at my last job and I utterly failed.

I suppose I compare myself to who I could be without this illness. And it hurts me, I haven't really accepted it.

I think I will need to stay in this job or a job like it (one where me being there or not doesn't outright cause issues)--it is stable, it gives me benefits, the pay is actually pretty decent for what I do. And in the future, perhaps start on a side project. Things that are more project based. I don't know, I have some novel ideas but I'm always afraid those novel ideas are mania speaking and not me. One of them would be a recipe book for long forgotten native foods (acorn bread or redbud jam anyone?) or even selling these foods at a farmers market. Collecting rare native plants for my garden, growing and letting them go to seed, and selling the seeds. Even selling native plants themselves that I start from seed--I do have a cedar elm growing and several possumhaws--which are notoriously hard to grow. These are all just "future" ideas that I like to fantasize about. Right now I'm focusing on showing up to work everyday--and my garden is really my refuge after the fact.

My partner makes good money but I do have a drive to be successful. I used to feel guilty about that--but it's there. I don't like our incomes to be different, I would want to be at the same or better, it's just a matter of pride and a dislike of dependency. But again, I'll have to make up for that with project work. I don't think a promotion in this role is in my cards--even if I was tapped for it.

ertyu
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Re: Ella's Journal

Post by ertyu »

ellarose24 wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:28 am


I suppose I compare myself to who I could be without this illness. And it hurts me, I haven't really accepted it.

Oooo, I do this, too. I compare myself to who I could've been if I'd grown up in a functional family. That way lies madness.

Is there a way for you to get an external, unbiased opinion on whether it really is irresponsible to accept the promotion? If you are working with a therapist, maybe they could increase your faith in your coping strategies. You do seem like you have a solid set in place.

Another potential trap here, imo, is to imagine neurotypicals as always perfectly stable, even, reliable, and productive. Neurotypical people have bad days all the time, just because. They have shit happen, and they are off the rails for months. They end up drinking too much one night and they end up skipping work with a hangover. A child gets ill and they need to skip work. A parent has a medical emergency. In short, life happens to everyone. No one is always perfectly reliable at their job even if capitalism tries to make us all hate ourselves into being so. I get why, as someone with a known diagnosis from a family with a history of said diagnosis, you might feel like you in particular must be especially unreliable compared to everyone else who is "normal" -- but is that truly, objectively the case?

I cannot answer this question for you because I don't understand the nature of your work and am not a trained mental health professional. But if you have access to one, it might be interesting to bring it up.

AxelHeyst
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Re: Ella's Journal

Post by AxelHeyst »

ertyu wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:00 pm
Another potential trap here, imo, is to imagine neurotypicals as always perfectly stable, even, reliable, and productive. Neurotypical people have bad days all the time, just because. They have shit happen, and they are off the rails for months.
Can confirm, for what it's worth. Neurotypicals also get imposter syndrome ("I'm not worth this promotion/job"), and compare themselves to the version of themselves that never made mistakes ever or had off days.

Der Leiermann
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Re: Ella's Journal

Post by Der Leiermann »

I second ertyu’s post. Speaking as a neurotypical person, I’ve got ups and downs too. When we get out of a harsh lockdown towards the end of last year, I just lost motivation for work, for no particular reason. Nov/Dec/Jan were just a write off. Productivity only at half of what it would normally be. Maybe I just got fed up with Homeoffice, now that I’m back in the office things are better. Just an anecdote from my life, I didn’t need a diagnosis to underperform :lol:

On another note, it sounds like you hold yourself to a very high standard, professionally speaking, to achieve the best outcomes for clients. I do the same but have found that to be crippling as well, as it hinders me in actually achieving the overall best. That’s because I’d rather not do things at all, unless I can complete them 100% according to my liking/standard. Often giving 90-95% is still a very good outcome, and by not ‘needing’ to perform at 100% all the time, you can help a lot more people.
What I’m trying to say is, your clients will probably be doing quite well if they have you looking after them, compared to others that may not hold themselves to such a high standard. If you then need some time off every once in a while, they are still ahead because of your care factor. So don’t let your high expectations of yourself hold you back in pursuing what you think is right, and doing things right.

Hazel-is-ok
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Re: Ella's Journal

Post by Hazel-is-ok »

Hi Ella. I just read through your whole journal.

I also have a bipolar diagnosis, with a major manic episode at the start fourteen years ago. I realise how fortunate I am, being in the UK, and getting health care "free at the point of access."

Like you, I have been getting better at recognising the signs that a manic episode is starting, and taking the right actions. Once it's in full swing, I deny that there's anything wrong, though.

I have gone for the low stress options in my life, as I don't cope well with stress, and it seems to bring on mental ill-health for me. There used to be some guilt about not fulfilling my potential, but not any more.

I also have noticed that de-cluttering my space is helpful. If I can't see something, I forget that I own it, and I find it fascinating how clearing my living space also seems to clear my mind.

I just wanted to say, I recognise a lot of what you describe. I love your descriptions of your wildflower meadow. I wish you well.
Hazel

ellarose24
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Re: Ella's Journal

Post by ellarose24 »

Thank you all for the replies.

I had a lot to chew on reading the replies. Part of me wants to yell (except to you, Hazel)--YOU DON'T GET IT, STOP PRETENDING LIKE YOU GET IT! But the other part of me has to realize that IF I truly am in remission, and continue to be in remission, then I do have to move past my illness--and realize emotions are emotions and they don't go away.

I have received feedback from the two people I trust most--my SO and my therapist who is also my psychiatrist (rare these days.) Both agree that I need to keep stress to a minimum. Here is the problem--this may be the first full year I haven't had a significant stressor in my life. I won't get into the details of my childhood and teenage years, but starting at 18 my mother had yearly psychotic episodes--each episode was BAD, bad as in I truly thought she would die. Bad as in homeless, calling shelters and hospitals looking for her--bad as in her trying to kill my dad, set fire to my house, etc.

Yearly, from 18-28 she had these episodes, and yearly my father and brother would disown her and I would be left talking to the police, doctors, etc--even as I moved 9 hours away. (my dad got better the last 3-4 years, but I couldn't let go control as I didn't trust him) 3AM phone calls. etc. It usually lasted 6 months, starting in the spring (Ironically almost every mother's day I have been without her). And it puts me in a bad place, a horrible feeling that I can't name--I assume it comes from my childhood, it's devouring. It feels like my entire chest is replaced with a mouth that only wants to devour. I completely break down during these times and cannot function. My brain switches into different realities to escape.

I am not sure why I am writing this here--I suppose to say, I don't know what life without stress is like.. But also--that feeling, the devouring mouth in my chest--it comes back to a smaller degree with any kind of stress. That is what I think makes me different from neurotypicals. My brain plays tricks on me as well, this past year was so bad that I was dissociating completely, losing large chunks of my memory, even breaking up with my boyfriend and completely forgetting I did until I saw the confused look on his face when I showed affection. This was WITHOUT the stress of my mother--granted covid was here and my father was diagnosed with cancer.

I haven't written about these... more frightening and more scary, and likely more prone for me to receive judgement--symptoms because I think they often make people afraid, disgusted, and unable to relate. But it is those symptoms that makes me absolutely NOT like normal people. My emotions, my ups, and my downs, are not normal. What some people may think of as a bit of work stress that makes them develop a temporary unhealthy alcohol habit, for me turns into a full blown episode with me on leave and living out of my car. What is stress to normal people is catastrophic to me. Managing stress is ultimately the number one important thing for me to handle--for my finances, health, relationships, etc. Not only am I already diagnosed, but I have my mother to see as a potential for my future unless I get it under control now.

I was having a bad day when I posted the above, but I do feel better now, and I feel very confident in my decision to refuse and make known to my manager that I am not looking for a promotion. I don't think I'm cutting it off forever, but given I am stable--I can at this point learn better ways to manage stress--and who knows, perhaps I'll be such a pro at it that I CAN work long hours and under immense pressure. But I can't right now. I am still on shaky legs.

In fact, I asked my manager to move my schedule and I now start work at 10:30. This is amazing because I can start therapy again, doctors visits, etc. I do want to do well at my job. I still have overarching goals, and I WANT them to want to promote me.

I think my previous post was really me grieving. It's not just about my career. I feel like I am 10 years behind in general. Things like learning how to clean properly, my mannerisms, etc--I have always been told how weird I am, and sometimes it gets to me. That day it got to me, because it is upsetting that my senses can turn on me, a sunny day can seem sinister, shapes become abstract, and I have to almost create my own padded room to calm myself down. It's also scary--it is a blip of my illness coming through my medicine and I'm afraid that it will tear a hole into my stability and send me reeling.

Anyways, I know this is not a journal about mental illness. But I suppose that's what my particular journal has always been about lol.

Money wise--I read our insurance claim line by line for our roof. They are estimating our roof is 15 years which makes it "non recoverable" depreciation. I found our initial contract that says it's 10 years old--I'm hoping that will add an extra thousand or so to the payout. With my mornings now available, I'm able to do the work that neither of us could during business hours, so we are finally calling an AC repair before summer starts. But I think we will continue having it off and windows open during cool nights. It improves my mood a ton, it feels nice, it smells nice, it saves money and it helps the environment. We also need new toilets--I don't know why I have been so resistant in buying them. One of them still works--but there is sediment that always makes it look like a shit stain. I tried really hard to clean, and then repair, but I learned the manufacturers used bolts that rust (hence the sediment)--so not only can I not clean, but to replace these bolts I would need to literally saw through the old, rusted ones. The other toilet I have to manually turn the water on, close the valve with my hand, and then flush each time I used it. LOL. It sounds kind of archaic, but it's been like that four four months and I haven't really minded. I just hate the thought of producing waste if I don't have to. My SO joked that I would be making flower pots out of them when we finally got rid of them--little did he know I had already found such a project (luckily I am not that tacky to go through with it).

Oh! I struck gold yesterday. I signed up for chip drop--well I backed out given the amount they dump on your driveway, but another person that got a drop contacted me and I completely filled up my subaru with mulch. He said underneath the 5 foot deep pile on his driveway is a log that he will also give me once they get to it. He showed me their garden and compost and pond, and I was so happy to talk to someone else who actually cared about this stuff. I have what probably amounts to 15 bags of mulch in my subaru--I'm leaving it in the heat to bake and kill any bugs and will start solarizing whats left of my lawn. I'm frustrated I let my SO talk me into getting rid of half of the cardboard I had saved.

I did buy--fence nails and a wheelbarrow from amazon. Fence nails to complete the raised beds I'm making out of our old fence posts/pickets--and the wheelbarrow for the mulch and other gardening items. My back has been killing me.

ellarose24
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Re: Ella's Journal

Post by ellarose24 »

Alright, we need a new roof, new AC, new toilets.. and just spent 7K on a new fence.

What is necessary? A roof is. I think the toilets really arent. They still work, just not great--with the one in my bedroom needing me to lift the tank lid each time and mess around lol. But so what?

The AC--I am going to try and do without for the year. $9K was what they quoted. I might instead spend money on--roof insulation, a solar attic fan, and screens for my front and back doors.

Years ago, I was actually somewhat obsessed with living without AC. I really don't know why. But I researched quite a bit on how older houses were engineered to take advantage of shade/breezes/drafts etc. And it always seemed like a lost art. I also know I am 100% not living in reality, and romanticizing it. (I imagine screened in sleeping porches and fresh lemonade always in a pitcher)--but I also sort of like these... challenges?

Or maybe I'm simply trying to cope with the fact that everything that needs to be done is entirely too much money. But I do want to stay positive. And I do also wonder what knowledge I can learn--how to adapt to temperatures, how my body responds, etc. That will hopefully move on to when we do have an AC, and reduce our reliance significantly.

I have a dream of making this house as sustainable as humanly possible. I have really grand dreams for it--that I need to temper frequently. (Like adding a green roof, or a solarium where our driveway is.

This weekend I will finish building my raised beds, try my hand at baking bread for the 4th time, and go on a 10 mile hike. I don't expect to spend any more besides groceries.

ellarose24
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Re: Ella's Journal

Post by ellarose24 »

3 different AC guys--we need our AC replaced. $9,000.

Has anyone gone without AC? Again, it has always been a fantasy of mine. The idea of sweltering summers, sleeping patios, iced tea. Okay, obviously I'm romanticizing--and obviously it would be tough, especially here where it get over 100 degrees.

I researched old houses in the south some time ago, and I loved the way they were engineered, with transom windows above doors, screened porches, openings made specifically for breezes and shade also made specifically for efficiency. Making me wonder if I should replace my wildflower meadow and buy a tree for the front yard.

My proposition to my partner was this: Lets get an attic fan, screens on our doors and new doors (we were wanting to do that anyways) and really good insulation. It will still come out less than buying a new AC, and lets just try it--one year without the AC. One year of cold showers and cooking outdoors and eating cold salads and ice tea. And... sleeping in our own sweat... hmm.

It can't be that bad, right? People lived without AC for most of human history.

Well, of course it sounds like a fun project now, well see what it's like in August and whether I've stayed committed.

Also looking at new roofing--I think we'll go with a rubber roof. They seem to last a long time, and more importantly hail doesn't damage as easily and repairs are cheap. I don't know the point of getting a new roof if it's just going to be messed up again. It's also made out of recycled rubber tires, which makes the sustainable part of me happy, and drafts are minimal. It's only the "look" that can age, but I don't care about that really.

So projects/expenses in this order:

-Rubber Roof
-insulation
-solar attic fan
-new doors and screens for the front and back door
-learn how to make a mean iced tea and mint lemonade

Still going to be expensive, but so be it. I would like to save up to get the most efficient ac unit available, which I've been told is $20K. So what, 5 years from now? Lol. We'll see how this goes. I'd like the house to be almost energy negative. Want to buy solar panels outright, which would be another 10 years from now or so. In the meantime, I'd like to make everything as efficient as I possible can. I also imagine that while roofing and insulation won't likely change much, waiting even a year or two for an AC and the tech could be wildly different.

User avatar
Chris
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Re: Ella's Journal

Post by Chris »

ellarose24 wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:22 pm
Has anyone gone without AC?
No A/C here. I'm in the northeast, but it's still uncommon to not have it. Fans work well, both the ceiling and window variety. You'll want to pay attention to which side of your residence is sunny at which time of the day.... here, my office gets sun ~4pm in the summer, so I fix that by getting outside for a bike ride or walk. With a pair of window fans, you can draw air in from cooler areas and exhaust hot interiors.

No one likes sleeping hot, but that's fixable with a tower fan placed at the foot of the bed. An oscillating breeze over the whole bed surface is really nice in the summer. There are also "bed fans", but they're more expensive. If the humidity becomes too much, you could always add a window unit for the room you sleep in... yeah, you'd be caving on the "no A/C" promise, but a $150 window unit is much less than $9k. And it's more efficient to cool just the room you're in, instead of the entire house.

ellarose24
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Re: Ella's Journal

Post by ellarose24 »

Chris wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:39 am
No A/C here. I'm in the northeast, but it's still uncommon to not have it. Fans work well, both the ceiling and window variety. You'll want to pay attention to which side of your residence is sunny at which time of the day.... here, my office gets sun ~4pm in the summer, so I fix that by getting outside for a bike ride or walk. With a pair of window fans, you can draw air in from cooler areas and exhaust hot interiors.

No one likes sleeping hot, but that's fixable with a tower fan placed at the foot of the bed. An oscillating breeze over the whole bed surface is really nice in the summer. There are also "bed fans", but they're more expensive. If the humidity becomes too much, you could always add a window unit for the room you sleep in... yeah, you'd be caving on the "no A/C" promise, but a $150 window unit is much less than $9k. And it's more efficient to cool just the room you're in, instead of the entire house.
Thanks Chris,

I've actually been looking up swamp coolers. I have a tower filter-fan type thing that would actually work just about perfectly without any real engineering on my part excepts some tubing, matting, and a pump. My only concern is that it does get pretty humid here. I also thought about getting a window unit. My partner hates the heat, and I hate the thought of him working 13-14 hour days, which is the norm, and coming home pissed off because I've started another one of my experiments. I found dehumidifying portable units that you can move around, that would let him move to the office as well. I can't take the cold and he can't take the heat, what a pair.

We'll try my swamp cooler but I'm fully expecting it to be a bust with humidity here. I'm not even going to try until it heats up. It's about 60 degrees out today and the thought of 100+ days is something I can put in the back of my mind.

I'm having another problem--now that I've made donations become the ultimate "purpose" of my money I'm getting so many letters in the mail begging me for donations. Today it was meals on wheels and I cried at their stupid ass newsletter. Part of reducing stress is I cannot let these things get to me, I tend to fixate really heavily on problems and become overwhelmed by my inability to make even an inch of difference. I think I'll be throwing these things away. St. Jude's sent me stickers and return labels, meals on wheels told me that old people are dying because I don't donate, the humane society--well the humane society is really furthest on my list. I LOVE DOGS, more than anything, but I don't see the point in donating to keep a species alive that is a net drain on the environment. That sounds callous but it's something I've thought about a lot. Even owning a dog seems contrary to my values, but since I won't have children I appease myself with it. I don't really understand donating to things like homeless dogs--or like one letter I got begging for donations--dogs of the homeless.

I've set myself up to donate exclusively to local conservation efforts, but have started thinking donating to humans is more important. The biggest environmental impact would, I think, be lifting people out of poverty--birth rates would drop and that itself is more than me getting excited that my local native plants org is saving 1 square mile of native prairie. I am really struggling where my money would be best served, and it's becoming an obsession/neurosis that I think I need to stay away from for a while.

It seems one of the things that causes me stress is too many inputs. I noticed this with online spaces. I already know that movies that are too dramatic/violent/any sort of emotion besides happy and calm are not good for me. Reading newsletters from non-profits telling me how whatever cause they are supporting is in critical need or people/plants/animals/the world will die is also not good for me. I'm starting to become bitter at their emotional tactics.

white belt
Posts: 1452
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Re: Ella's Journal

Post by white belt »

Check out this article for lots of ideas about low-tech cooling solutions (pay attention to max temps and humidity that can still be comfortably cooled with fans): https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2014/09 ... oning.html

A swamp cooler won't work in a high humidity area. Window units are more energy efficient than central air, as long as you aren't putting a window A/C in every window and running it full blast 24/7.

It's hard to provide more specific advice without knowing more information about your situation:

-How big is your house? How many rooms do you generally live in?

-Are you planning on moving anytime soon or interested in preserving/increasing resale value?

-How is your house heated? Does it already have ducting for forced air?

-What temperature and humidity ranges can you expect in the hottest months?

-What is the area around your house like? Do you have south facing windows that you could add awnings to in the summer? Do you have trees shading certain areas?

Another alternative to central air is using a ductless mini-split system. These are quite common in other countries and are a nice mix of energy efficiency of a window unit, with the quiet and convenience of central air. They are also generally much cheaper then installing central A/C. See here for more info: https://temperatureprocentralnj.com/eve ... ni-splits/

white belt
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Re: Ella's Journal

Post by white belt »

ellarose24 wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:22 pm

Has anyone gone without AC? Again, it has always been a fantasy of mine. The idea of sweltering summers, sleeping patios, iced tea. Okay, obviously I'm romanticizing--and obviously it would be tough, especially here where it get over 100 degrees.

I researched old houses in the south some time ago, and I loved the way they were engineered, with transom windows above doors, screened porches, openings made specifically for breezes and shade also made specifically for efficiency. Making me wonder if I should replace my wildflower meadow and buy a tree for the front yard.

My proposition to my partner was this: Lets get an attic fan, screens on our doors and new doors (we were wanting to do that anyways) and really good insulation. It will still come out less than buying a new AC, and lets just try it--one year without the AC. One year of cold showers and cooking outdoors and eating cold salads and ice tea. And... sleeping in our own sweat... hmm.

It can't be that bad, right? People lived without AC for most of human history.
I have lived in the deep south for years and although all of my apartments have had A/C, I have gone periods without using it. Here are my observations:

-Excessive heat makes it much harder for me to fall asleep. You can take the basic steps like using a thin or no blanket, lots of fans, etc. However, you might still have a lot of humidity which can make things unpleasant. I've found that sometimes I will run the A/C only when I'm sleeping at night to ensure I get a good night's sleep (this is where a window unit or mini-split would be ideal). Each person's comfort level is different. I also find that leaving my window open overnight means I have to deal with excessive noise and light that often wakes me up.

-How adapted are you and your SO to the outdoors? I ask this because folks who work mostly outside will have an easier time adjusting to no A/C at home. Yes, people lived without A/C for most of human history, but humans are also quick to adapt to conditions. It may be hard to adjust to no A/C at home if you are sitting in an office that keeps the thermostat at 65 degrees for 8 hours a day. I remember being very heat-adapted after spending 2 straight weeks in the summer living outside 24/7 at a military school in the Florida swamps (even with severe sleep deprivation and starvation), to the point that returning inside a building with A/C felt very cold at first.

-There are people today who live without A/C in extremely hot locations, but it does require some intelligent design and planning. Most houses are not designed for life without A/C unless they were built prior to when A/C became widespread. Here is a tour of Brad Lancaster's house in the Arizona desert. Note that some of his cooling solutions won't work in a humid environment like Texas, but it should at least give you some inspiration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcAMXm9zITg

ellarose24
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Re: Ella's Journal

Post by ellarose24 »

-How big is your house? How many rooms do you generally live in?

A little under 1400 square feet. 3 rooms, we live in all of them. One is our bedroom, the other two are our offices (Work from home, at least currently). Actually, now that i think about it, we do not use the living room at all

-Are you planning on moving anytime soon or interested in preserving/increasing resale value?
Moving would not be until we pay off the mortgage, and I have not calculated that. This is actually part of a grand scheme I have--to own homes, retrofit them to be as sustainable as possible, plant all native, and then rent them out--with the stipulations they must leave landscaping/gardening to me. That is why I wanted to save up for the most efficient AC, not because I care about it, but I think it would help me rent out to the type of renter I want--thinking of displaced Californians. That is just an idea, but not want I am fully set in.

-How is your house heated? Does it already have ducting for forced air?

Yes it is already set up for forced air

-What temperature and humidity ranges can you expect in the hottest months?

Temperature--July to September, sometimes even into November, it is going to be 100-115. 90 degrees would be considered cool. 60-75% humidity

-What is the area around your house like? Do you have south facing windows that you could add awnings to in the summer? Do you have trees shading certain areas?

One room with a south facing window, can close the room off. The window is large, but there is a magnolia tree right in front that somewhat filters the sun. Because it's not a shade tree, I don't think it does much for cooling the exterior of the house

ellarose24
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Re: Ella's Journal

Post by ellarose24 »

I AM A CONSUMER!

There, I said it. Even in my early-mid 20s, when I was deep into ERE, I did have an obsession with consumption. My savings rate was probably in the 50s-60s, but I would still look at consumption as a way to reward myself. Including going down every section of certain websites and picking the one thing I would buy if I could, putting it in my cart, and then walking away.

Many online support groups would laud that as a great move, but I find that it is and was neurotic. Why am I doing such a pointless/worthless thing?

-------------------------------------------------------

When I was a child, I grew up in a more bastardized version of what people now call "free range." Equally traumatized, neglected, and spoiled. My mother does not have patience, she does not like teaching, she does not like explaining, I do not think she really likes children--and I don't blame her for it. She also had an underlying mental illness that would not yet fully manifest--something that took place when I was about 13. My father worked long hours, he despised discipline, and he loved children and loved to spoil.

I initially grew up well-to-do, private school and country clubs. If I refused to brush my hair, my mother would tell me she'd buy me something if I did. Or if I refused to go to ballet, she said we could stop at the local toy store if I did. If I was ever ill or sad, my father would come home with presents. This is before Things Got Bad--and it is a time in my childhood that I fantasize about despite it's obvious dysfunction.

It is REALLY bad when it comes to Dr. Pepper. Every morning on the way to, and afternoon on the way home, I would get a Dr. Pepper and Hershey to reward me for going to school and finishing the day without calling out.

I am addicted to Dr. Peppers now, it is 100% emotional. There was a point in my childhood where we simply had an open box, and we would drink more Dr. Pepper than water. I remember thinking how sad it was that my friends weren't allowed free access to soda. I thought the tap water I was sent to bed with at slumber parties was disgusting

This did a couple of strange things, I believe. It is obvious I already had signs of mental illness. From a very young age, I had suicidal thoughts, and I would not want to leave my bed. Meaning, I did not want to go to school/functions/see friends. I learned that consumption means more than feelings, and feelings can be dealt with through consumption. It was almost a self-soothe tactic taught to me by my mother. I also, towards the end of my time spent with my mother, experienced her hypo/manic episodes and her spending and it felt GOOD. Mom was happy! We had so many new things! We were painting the house! New lace curtains and crazy amethyst stones and large iron statues in our yard. I know now that by doing so, She spent all of the entire half of her divorce settlement on--what? Who knows. I remember years later I found a box lined in velvet with a gold lighter inside, she said it was one of her manic purchases. The price-tag was $5K.

---------------------------------------------------

Okay, enough about the why behind. Consumption is one of the main ways I self soothe. It is almost a partial dissociation, where I imagine the type of person I want to be--and that person is completely revolved around what they consume. Especially when stress is at an all time high. Even if the type of person I want to be is not at all someone that would consume, think a Laura Ingalls type, I will STILL focus on consuming because it's the easiest thing to do! Except this time I will look at dutch ovens, plaid curtains, and prairie skirts. If you are rolling your eyes, I'm right there with you

--------------------------------------------------

The biggest curb I have found to consumption was actually and truly finding my values. Unfortunately, ERE did not initially work for me because the focus was still largely on me. And "me" up until very recently, has been a very wavy/elusive/watery substance. I will retire early? Great, well who even am I? LOL. I adopted Jacobs values--which I do think are very good values--but I adopted them for the same reasons I consumed. Because I needed a very easy way to give myself parameters to define the type of person I am, without doing any of the work myself.

--------------------------------------------------

Finding Effective Altruism--the "why" and passion behind what I do and what my life should be directed as, and then applying Jacob's and other's logic, which is very sound, I am hoping is the way forward. It is not that I am an inherently altruistic individual, it is more that doing things for myself brings on a whole set of neuroses that I can't deal with. Sometimes I dislike myself, sometimes myself becomes another temporary self, my image splits frequently. But one thing that truly does not change is certain passions I have, specifically for nature and the environment.

Focusing on nature and the environment also has broad implications on my consumption habits and where I focus my time. The stoic "be your best self, push yourself to the limit" etc--it works on me temporarily, but ultimately I haven't reconciled who my "self" is and why I should care about it. When I see landfills, the ocean, or research the production cycle of common items I buy, or find out that less than 1% of native prairies exist today--those things aren't related to the self except in the minimal ways I impact them. I cannot tie things to this "self" I possess. It isn't motivating to me and it isn't steady enough. Nature, from a very young age, seemed to be the healthy way I self soothed. During the periods of neglect that I faced, I often spent almost all of my time outside. My father took us to Canada as a child, and it had a profound impact on me. I would write journals when I came back home pretending I was still there. And where I did live, although not as grande as the Canada or Colorado, soothed me--with large oak trees and mourning doves and feral cats that I spent my time taming. (I did not yet know the impact feral cats have on birds :) )

--------------------------------------------------

This change in focus has made the talk about efficiency and logic make more sense and I take it to heart. I want my biggest number to be outflows to charities. I want that number to get as large as it possibly can. I want my negative impact to be as minimal as it possibly can. I want my time to be spent educating myself so that I can

1. Make more money so that I can have a bigger impact.
2. learn more about the topics I am passionate about so I can dig into the charities I support.

(the make more money must be limited by stress, as stated in earlier posts, and so stress management will come first. This will necessitate consumption in "self care"--something I will have to dig into when I feel ready to move up stress levels, but I am not now)

And so spending 2 hours putting items into a virtual cart starts to seem rather stupid. A revelation, I know!

Learning how to "play the game" in a corporate setting seems completely worth it--increased money flow.

Ultimately, I do not even think this comes from a healthy place, but it is about as healthy as I am going to get. The problem is that defining my own values, wants, needs, desires--I simply can't do that. I tend towards codependency. As I grew up, this often meant finding another person (boyfriend) that could define my entire worth for me. I would get surges of production and motivation because now I'm doing it "for them" instead of for myself--myself is a gaping hole of murky substance. I often fantasized about having a child, for similar (unhealthy reasons)--I'd finally have someone to do things for! AND! They would never leave me! (thank goodness I am not having a child, eh?)

I'm simply replacing those instincts with something a bit larger.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Ella's Journal

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

I can relate to many of your experiences, maybe just half a leap removed. My mother suffers from bi-polar disease which didn’t manifest at its worst until I was around 11 (after the birth of my youngest sister.) My father was also a Dear Old Dad successful salaryman type, although not as indulgent as you describe. My sisters and I ran pretty free (sometimes with scissors), especially during the two periods my parents separated. I remember experiencing college dorm life as oppressive in comparison. I even find the behavior of the men I date oppressive by comparison. I have very low tolerance for having my activities “supervised.”

OTOH, I generally sided with my kinder, warmer, more frugal father over my intermittently raging or cool neglect style, shopaholic, mother, especially when she would do things like redecorate my entire bedroom or purchase my entire wardrobe for 9th grade without even consulting me or considering my preferences. In retrospect, it is kind of funny to remember the closet full of preppy pleated corduroy she bought from the Pendleton shop vs. the disco roller skating wardrobe I would have preferred at the time.

Anyways, one unique experience I had as an adult was that I dated a man whose bi-polar disease was even worse than my mother’s when unmedicated, but he had a completely different personality than hers when he wasn’t manic. He was The Helper, a real sweetheart when “sober”, on the enneagram, so as he became more manic, he would try to help people more and more. For instance, he would go WAAAY out of his way to stop and help anybody on the side of the road. He was also quite frugal normally, so he would shop when he was manic, literally fill an entire cart at the store, but then not go through with the purchase. I was with him one time when he did this and it was almost like he woke himself up from sleepwalking. My second “husband” also had a bi-polar mother and some symptoms (like me) himself (we both got hyper-sexuality, so that worked :lol:), so that was another compare and contrast opportunity.

My point here being that perhaps you and I share a unique perspective on what drives consumption. For instance, we know that it isn’t completely societal because we’ve seen and/or experienced it being driven completely by hormonal influenced/influential chemicals with variety of triggers. In some ways, individuals with bipolar disease can kind of serve as canary in coal mine. Although, other important thing to note would be high correlation between this disease and intelligence/creativity. So, may warrant pause to consider possibilities related to “baby and bath water” if tendency is squashed completely. It seems so overly specific. Why does a chemical imbalance so frequently cause the symptom of shopping? It might be interesting to research how bipolar disease manifested in different eras or cultures.

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