Re: brute journal
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:46 am
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I understand "curing Brute of existential nihilism" is not necessarily desirable and am not attempting it. I also understand that Brute's knowledge that there is no objective meaning in life and universe is taken by Brute purely informatively rather than as something to be sad about. However I also notice strong curiosity from Brute on this subject (undoubtedly, another evolved biological "itch" as populations with more curious monkeys had higher chances to survive and thrive).BRUTE wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:32 pmbut does it make brute feel like he has a purpose, or if his life has meaning? no. brute's belief is that everything humans attribute purpose or metaphysical meaning to is just scratching their dumb little biological itches - be it family, religion, or whatever. would more individuals be honest with themselves and raise their head from their self-constructed hamster wheels, they'd arrive at the same conclusion. brute is just more honest with himself. he's just stardust.
while the first part is true, the second is not - that's the crux. as a wise human once said, brute can do what he wants, but he can't want what he wants. just as Elon Musk didn't choose to strive for space or power over reality, and Ray Dalio didn't choose to get excited by platitudes and financial markets, brute doesn't get to choose what he wants.NPV wrote:you get to do whatever the fuck you want, and to invent whatever meaning you want
This might be a mental framing problem, or an individual variance in brain wiring, so I don't want to over-generalize the experience of myself and others referenced above. It has been quite easy for me to find / create meaning in solving problems, making satisfying choices, figuring out cool insights, envisioning and willing into existence projects, meaningful relationships, increasing my bench press etc. Even though I also fully understand none of these activities, or anything else in the universe, has any objective meaning. Perhaps something around wiring creates some individual preferences / interests in different domains (or lack thereof) hence some people might have more domains they are excited about and others less.BRUTE wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:38 amwhile the first part is true, the second is not - that's the crux. as a wise human once said, brute can do what he wants, but he can't want what he wants. just as Elon Musk didn't choose to strive for space or power over reality, and Ray Dalio didn't choose to get excited by platitudes and financial markets, brute doesn't get to choose what he wants.
in fact, brute has been thinking that it would be logically impossible to want what he wants - kind of a first mover problem. brute thinks he even opened a thread about this on here, but doesn't remember if it got very far.
the hand brute has been dealt not only includes a lack of objective meaning, but also the biological circumstances that entice him, and thus the potential for subjective, personal meanings.
brute does not have many aspirations. brute does not get excited at the idea of starting a multi-billion dollar hedge fund. or going to space. sure, it sounds nice and what not. but not enough to get out of bed. (brute is literally in bed right now). (incidentally, brute has been reading the recent Ray Dalio book today, and he's not very impressed. just another self-help book).
brute would define "meaning" as "something that lets brute forget about the fact that life is meaningless", a distraction. very few things let brute forget about this for longer than a few minutes or hours at a time. apparently Elon Musk can think about space for many days straight without getting bored. there doesn't seem to be such a thing for brute, or at least he hasn't found it.
this isn't to say that brute wishes he had such a thing, or had found it. sometimes he does wish for this, sometimes he thinks wishing for what one wants is paradoxical. sometimes, when he feels particularly cynical, he chuckles at the Elon Musks and Ray Dalios that get real excited about the little part of reality they've fenced off for themselves to play their little games in. then brute remembers that he also sometimes fences off little areas to play his little games, they just don't seem to last very long.
of the best or most "meaningful" moments of brute's life, many have been fictional (e.g. a good book, movie, or song), and many have been trivial (e.g. a particularly well-dried piece of ribeye, or a nice cup of coffee on a Saturday morning while realizing that there is no need to do laundry any time soon).
very few of those moments involved anything aspirational, challenging, or even particularly interesting. less than half or a third involved social interaction at all.
if brute had to describe the characteristics of his biological itches, they would have a very low bar and be very easily satisfied completely. i.e. even a decent cup of Starbuck's coffee is easily good enough for brute, but after 3-4 of even the best cup of coffee he's ever had, he's kind of done for a while. easily excitable, easily exhausted.
brute should probably figure out a system of various affordable, reliable, dopamine inducing activities that he can cycle so that one will replace the other before any reach saturation. in a sense, this is probably what most humans do - set up a personally tailored hamster wheel that lets them run along and forget the truth - that life is boring and meaningless. brute is just a bit more cynical about it than most humans.
This thought occurred to me a few days ago also while reading another thread (forget which one), where I think brute made the point that doing anything (scuba diving) for 40 hours a week would get boring.brute should probably figure out a system of various affordable, reliable, dopamine inducing activities that he can cycle so that one will replace the other before any reach saturation. in a sense, this is probably what most humans do - set up a personally tailored hamster wheel that lets them run along and forget the truth - that life is boring and meaningless. brute is just a bit more cynical about it than most humans.
Well said.suomalainen wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:54 pm
Rather than web-of-goals, my “mindfulness / be present in the moment” project is converging on web-of-pleasant-distractions.
Edit: the ere part of pleasing distractions is that such distractions are more stoic in the “one with nature” sense rather than the consumerist sense. Of course, brute would suggest that such a proclivity is not one of my choosing.
brute likes ERE over MMM for exactly this reason, ERE is much more high-level. ERE does not say "Dear Leader Jacob enjoys physics and lentils, therefore all humans should do physics and eat lentils". Dear Leader Jacob merely uses himself as an example. MMM is a(t least one) level below that, saying "MMM enjoys hammering on wood and plaid shirts and hiking, so all humans should do it, because it's enjoyable".suomalainen wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:58 pmwhat brute might say is that if saving money is jacob’s thing or building shit is mmm’s thing, that’s great, but 1) it’s not what they wanted to want in any event and 2) if my wants don’t line up with theirs a) I can/should align my life with the wants given me because b) I can’t want anything different anyhow.
brute likes the "web of pleasant distractions".suomalainen wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:54 pmRather than web-of-goals, my “mindfulness / be present in the moment” project is converging on web-of-pleasant-distractions.
Edit: the ere part of pleasing distractions is that such distractions are more stoic in the “one with nature” sense rather than the consumerist sense. Of course, brute would suggest that such a proclivity is not one of my choosing.
the point isn't that none of these activities have objective meaning - nothing does. the point is that NPV didn't choose to find meaning in benching vs. ballet dancing or whatever. he merely discovered his proclivities.NPV wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:06 amIt has been quite easy for me to find / create meaning in solving problems, making satisfying choices, figuring out cool insights, envisioning and willing into existence projects, meaningful relationships, increasing my bench press etc. Even though I also fully understand none of these activities, or anything else in the universe, has any objective meaning. Perhaps something around wiring creates some individual preferences / interests in different domains (or lack thereof) hence some people might have more domains they are excited about and others less.
brute would argue that eudaemonia is a euphemism for "bigger time sink" here. the only sense in which philosophy and coding and dogs and children and family are superior distractions to coffee and opium is that they require more time.NPV wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:06 amYou did however mention at least two more eudaemonic things you found enjoyable - coding and figuring out interesting philosophical insights, and maybe some interesting stories told through books, movies or songs. This is probably what most people would define as meaningful experiences for you - although not in the sense of some objective universal meaning of existence of which there is no evidence.
this is definitely true. brute did a personality test once and scored strongly in the class of "enjoys gaining knowledge for its own sake", and he's certainly a contrarian.