brute journal

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BRUTE
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Re: brute journal

Post by BRUTE » Sat May 27, 2017 12:33 am

hypertension, obesity, diabetes, and heart problems are mostly caused by metabolic syndrome. lifestyle management, including diet, can usually prevent, and often fix them. sometimes, in late stages, structural damage has been done. still, even then, what's considered "terminal" (beta cell burnout in the pancreas in late stage type 2 diabetics) by conventional medicine can be reversed within a week or two by extreme dietary measures.

exercise can also have strong effects. brute has seen complete reversal of type 2 diabetes through both diet and exercise.

list of dietary convictions brute holds, some with sources:

some humans cannot tolerate even small/moderate amounts of carbohydrate. tolerance gets worse and eventually disappears under chronic exposure. (Taubes, Teichholz)

despite that, "macros" (dividing foods into fat/carbs/protein) are almost useless, or at least not enough. not all carbs are created equal. rice seems very harmless. fructose is practically a poison. wheat is the devil. (Wheat Belly, Paleo)

paleo is generally a good measure, not because of the romanticizing of hunter gatherers, but because most industrial modifications to food (or really since the agricultural revolution) have had negative impact.

cooking is a useful skill, and really the only way to learn about and strictly control diet.

most conventionally held, popular beliefs about diet are bullshit, and are actually not based on any science. most "diet science" is bullshit.

fat is not inherently unhealthy to humans. industrial fats (vegetable/grain oils/hydrogenated oils) are very unhealthy, just like sugar.

fat in combination with a high-carbohydrate diet is a terrible combination. this is where low-fat diets can actually work - eating paleo-vegan is certainly better in the short term, if done right, than overeating the SAD.

fat is actually a necessary intake for the human body, especially saturated animal fats. most cells are made from it, especially in the brain. saturated fats are important for hormone production and regulation, and even mineral and vitamin absorption.

protein is vital, but usually overrated. most humans just think protein is healthy because both carbs and fat have been vilified. eating too much protein actually causes intestinal disturbances, constipation. especially if saturated fats are lacking. most indigenous/hunter gatherer cultures that rely heavily on animal products mostly eat the fatty parts of animals. lean is given to the dogs. (Zero Carb, Fat of the Land)

water is vital as well, but also overrated. the 8 glasses a day story is bullshit - following the chain of evidence, the equivalent of 8 glasses a day is the requirement of the body for total water. this includes recycled water from bodily fluids, from food (most food is 80% water), and drink. thirst is a great indicator of water needs. no need to "hydrate" or overhydrate, like many humans do.

fruits are just candy on a tree.

vegetables are also overrated. yes, they have some vitamins and minerals. but so do animal products. brute does eat a small amount of vegetables with most meals, both for flavor and to get those vitamins/minerals.

brute strives for a 100% animal product diet, but those last 10% remove a lot of great flavors, and he's had bad experiences going for more than 2 weeks completely without any vegetables. simply adding a few leaves of spinach per day seems completely enough, though. it's feasible that eating more liver or bone would provide those minerals, but some spinach also works and is less effort.

dairy tolerance varies extremely between individuals - brute has always consumed copious amounts of dairy throughout his life, and would rather give up electricity than dairy. he knows humans that can barely tolerate a glass a day.

fiber is healthy in the same way that filter cigarettes are healthy. actually, probably worse. fiber bloats, causes indigestion, rots in the intestine, causes colon cancer, and is constipating. the original "science" behind "fiber is good" is such bullshit it's not even funny. there is literally no scientific foundation for the entire thing. it's simply made up. (The Fiber Menace)

hence, brute tries to minimize fiber consumption.

meal frequency and timing has an impact, sometimes a big one. there is no need to eat more than 1x per day. 2x per day for athletes.

fasting is a great practice. intermittent fasting (Warrior Diet, Eat Stop Eat, 5:2, Leangains) is great. prolonged fasting is great (Jason Fung, though he's a quack). brute has fasted for ~1 week multiple times, and while a little uncomfortable, it's not a problem. brute did not lose any noticeable amount of muscle. hunger is not a problem.

low enough carbohydrate and protein consumption (through ketogenic diet or fasting) causes serum ketone levels to rise ("ketosis"). ketones have interesting effects in the body - some just because they correlate with the absence of glucose (insulin, blood glucose) and proteins (IGF-1, MTOR). other effects are present even when ketones are consumed from exogenous sources while serum glucose is still normal/high. these include protective effects on certain brain cells. for example, ketones protect against seizures to a 2-4x effect, preventing oxygen seizure in divers, and certain types of epilepsy.

brute likes to think of eating/fasting as stressors that need to be balanced. hormesis.

brute has eaten a pretty strict ketogenic diet with fasting for about 1.5 years now. it is not that expensive. beans and rice cheap? no. but much tastier, too.

in a way, the "brute likes animal products" part is important - like humans often say, the only diet that will work is one that humans can stick to, and brute really likes the taste of his diet. it is pretty dairy heavy compared to more typical Zero Carb diets ("Meat + Water").

socially it is not a problem, because brute is anti-social as fuck. when humans try to argue diet with him, 99.5% of the time, they have no clue what the fuck they're talking about and brute can not only predict their arguments, but also explain them away in a manner of his choosing - playfully, "huh, interesting", brutish, nasty, short. or he can explain, if humans are interested. this is a consequence of having researched human diets, and experimented with them, for 15 years or so.

brute has done vegetarian, vegan, fruitarian, SAD, Atkins, Zone, Paleo.. pretty much everything. there are now no "new diets" to brute, only variations of old diets. brute's own diet is extremely tailored to him.

interest in brute's diet correlates very strongly with how good brute looks at the time. humans want to copy what they like, not what has scientific basis.

Campitor
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Re: brute journal

Post by Campitor » Sat May 27, 2017 1:56 am

@ brute

Can you provide what a typical daily meal may consist of for your diet? I don't wan to pick it apart. I only what to see what is the food choice that you consider optimal and conforming to your dietary philosophy.

James_0011
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Re: brute journal

Post by James_0011 » Sat May 27, 2017 2:46 am

@ brute

I think that you haven't tried eating according to the biologist ray peat's advice. This is probably a 'new diet' to you.

ThisDinosaur
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Re: brute journal

Post by ThisDinosaur » Sat May 27, 2017 9:06 am

most conventionally held, popular beliefs about diet are bullshit, and are actually not based on any science. most "diet science" is bullshit.
+1
fat is actually a necessary intake for the human body, especially saturated animal fats. most cells are made from it, especially in the brain. saturated fats are important for hormone production
Saturated fats are easily made by the body from carbohydrates. Essential Fatty Acids are specific fat moieties that are "essential" because humans can't make them and need them in the diet. Cholesterol is needed for steroid hormone production, but the body can make that too.
most indigenous/hunter gatherer cultures that rely heavily on animal products mostly eat the fatty parts of animals. lean is given to the dogs.
That's probably because that's where all the easy calories are. Fat is 9 calories per gram, protein and carbs are 4 calories per gram. Plus, fat is delicious.
fruits are just candy on a tree.
Most animals can make their own ascorbic acid/vitamin C. Its only a "vital amine" for us because our tree-dwelling ancestors ate so much fruit that we abandoned the ability to make it to save energy on making the necessary enzymes.

Stahlmann
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Re: brute journal

Post by Stahlmann » Sat May 27, 2017 11:11 am

BRUTE wrote:
hypertension, obesity, diabetes, and heart problems are mostly caused by metabolic syndrome. lifestyle management, including diet, can usually prevent, and often fix them. sometimes, in late stages, structural damage has been done. still, even then, what's considered "terminal" (beta cell burnout in the pancreas in late stage type 2 diabetics) by conventional medicine can be reversed within a week or two by extreme dietary measures.
This quite hardcore statement. Can you elaborate? Or give direction in which should I read/go?
I am especially intertested in hypertension prevention/early intervention.

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BRUTE
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Re: brute journal

Post by BRUTE » Sat May 27, 2017 12:37 pm

Campitor wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 1:56 am
Can you provide what a typical daily meal may consist of for your diet? I don't wan to pick it apart. I only what to see what is the food choice that you consider optimal and conforming to your dietary philosophy.
typical meal would be:
1 ribeye steak

or:
1lbs of ground beef/pork, about 2oz of frozen spinach mixed in, with some salt & pepper, and a dash of cream to bind the fat. sometimes additional cheese on top.

or:
5 strips of bacon, then 5 eggs fried in the bacon grease. salt + pepper. often, brute adds some onion, garlic, or spinach, for flavor and texture.

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BRUTE
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Re: brute journal

Post by BRUTE » Sat May 27, 2017 12:41 pm

ThisDinosaur wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 9:06 am
...
just because the body can make some nutrients doesn't mean eating them is not beneficial - now the body doesn't HAVE to make them. in the same vain, for example, carbohydrates are actually not a vital nutrient. the body can do 75% of what glucose does with ketones, and can produce the remaining 25% of glucose from triglycerides. still, in some circumstances (metabolic athletic performance), this mechanism is not enough, because it takes a while.

there is a difference between "not dead" and "optimal".

fat is indeed delicious. but the point brute was making: eating lean protein (animal or plant) is conducive to rabbit starvation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_poisoning) in humans. that's why those hunter gatherers eat fatty meat. it's easy to test: ThisDinosaur can try eating only lean chicken breast or rabbit (that's where the name comes from) for 2-3 days, without any fat. he'll quickly get headaches and constipation. protein cannot make up much more than 30-40% of daily energy requirements before becoming dangerous.

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BRUTE
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Re: brute journal

Post by BRUTE » Sat May 27, 2017 12:43 pm

James_0011 wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 2:46 am
I think that you haven't tried eating according to the biologist ray peat's advice. This is probably a 'new diet' to you.
can James_0011 give an overview? the website lists dozens (hundreds?) of articles, and brute is too lazy to read through all of them to even know what it's about.

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Re: brute journal

Post by C40 » Sat May 27, 2017 12:51 pm

BRUTE wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 12:33 am

water is vital as well, but also overrated. the 8 glasses a day story is bullshit - following the chain of evidence, the equivalent of 8 glasses a day is the requirement of the body for total water. this includes recycled water from bodily fluids, from food (most food is 80% water), and drink. thirst is a great indicator of water needs. no need to "hydrate" or overhydrate, like many humans do.
Could you elaborate on this? Or point me where to learn more about it? I haven't done any specific research on water and hydration, but everything I've read about it has said to err on the side of being very hydrated.

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BRUTE
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Re: brute journal

Post by BRUTE » Sat May 27, 2017 12:57 pm

Stahlmann wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 11:11 am
This quite hardcore statement. Can you elaborate? Or give direction in which should I read/go?
I am especially intertested in hypertension prevention/early intervention.
this "hardcore" statement is actually not very controversial in paleo/keto circles.

Good Calories Bad Calories by Taubes and Big Fat Lie (?) by Teichholz are good starting points.

here's the abstract:
hypertension is high blood pressure. blood pressure in the human body is in part regulated by the following factors:
- salt intake
- insulin levels
- fiber intake
- water intake
- high body weight

low blood pressure results in grey-outs or even black outs, e.g. getting dizzy when standing up quickly. this is dangerous in that a human could fall, or black out while swimming or driving.

brute isn't sure why high blood pressure is bad exactly besides correlating with other incidents like heart disease. maybe it causes heart disease.

in any case, it's easily testable how these factors influence blood pressure. a common report from humans who try fasting for the first time is that they get dizzy. this is because all these factors (except water) are suddenly reduced to zero. brute usually gets this around day 4-5 of a complete water fast. he has the feeling that he's been getting better, so maybe the body gets used to it.

it is interesting too how these factors are linked. salt intake causes water intake through thirst. so does fiber. and, interestingly, even just eating a zero carb meal, though not quite as much.

when brute has been abstaining from overeating or fiber for a while (week or so) and then eats a relatively big meal, or a meal containing lots of fiber (e.g. a whole onion, or a bar of dark chocolate, or lots of green vegetables) he becomes incredibly thirsty and dehydrated. this is because fiber draws water in the intestine, bloating and increasing in volume. this is one of the mechanisms in which fiber is terrible for digestion and colon health, it increases stool size and volume, and dehydration, which is then compensated by extra thirst.

water fasting turns of salt, fiber, and insulin, and is therefore a pretty drastic method to demonstrate this.

in short, if Stahlmann has high blood pressure, he is likely overweight, consuming too much salt, consuming too much fiber, or just consuming too much food in general (insulin). brute would recommend intermittent fasting as a light weight way to try and improve blood pressure.

note: brute doesn't think salt is unhealthy per se. salts are minerals, and many of them are vital nutrients, including sodium, potassium, and magnesium. but they do cause the body to bind water in the intestine.

interestingly, commercial laxatives consist either of indigestible fiber, or magnesium citrate. both of these substances bind water in the intestine. fiber binds it into stool, magnesium causes diarrhea "flush out". magnesium is a salt.

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BRUTE
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Re: brute journal

Post by BRUTE » Sat May 27, 2017 1:00 pm

C40 wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 12:51 pm
Could you elaborate on this? Or point me where to learn more about it? I haven't done any specific research on water and hydration, but everything I've read about it has said to err on the side of being very hydrated.
The Fiber Menace describes this pretty well.

for highly active humans like C40 that go hiking and biking and shit in the heat, hydration is still important. in brute's personal experience, thirst is a great indicator. he's noticed that his thirst and water consumption mainly depends on degree of sweating, i.e. climate or physical exertion, and on overeating fiber.

when it's cold and brute just lies around on the couch on a ZC diet, he barely drinks any water at all. the water in his daily 2-4 cups of coffee is enough. when he's in the tropics and walking around all day and eating fiber, he'll drink half a gallon a day.

thirst. it works.

James_0011
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Re: brute journal

Post by James_0011 » Sat May 27, 2017 1:33 pm

BRUTE wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 12:43 pm
James_0011 wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 2:46 am
I think that you haven't tried eating according to the biologist ray peat's advice. This is probably a 'new diet' to you.
can James_0011 give an overview? the website lists dozens (hundreds?) of articles, and brute is too lazy to read through all of them to even know what it's about.
He doesn't provide an overview specifically because he doesn't want his work to be dumbed down or misrepresented. Kind of like how paleo and vegan circles become this oversimplified dogma.

In any case, there is a post on this thread with a pdf of a book written by someone else about peat's diet: https://raypeatforum.com/community/thre ... oddy.6635/

Stahlmann
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Re: brute journal

Post by Stahlmann » Sat May 27, 2017 3:16 pm

BRUTE wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 1:00 pm
...whole discussion...
What are long term benefits of ketosis? Have you ever considered about being ,,above" that state?
How do you deal with insomnia (or have dealt in early stages of adaptation)?
How do you feel about having higher measurements during lab tests (I mean cholesterol and so on)?
Does that change price of healthcare in US?
Do you worry about your health in long term?

Have you ever heard about diet by Dr Kwasniewski (optimal diet)?
http://www.homodiet.co.za/misc/cv_jk.htm
(3-5 first articles from left column will descirbe basics)
(at the moment please do not focus on miracles provided by site owner)

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BRUTE
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Re: brute journal

Post by BRUTE » Sat May 27, 2017 3:35 pm

Stahlmann wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 3:16 pm
What are long term benefits of ketosis? Have you ever considered about being ,,above" that state?
How do you deal with insomnia (or have dealt in early stages of adaptation)?
How do you feel about having higher measurements during lab tests (I mean cholesterol and so on)?
Does that change price of healthcare in US?
Do you worry about your health in long term?

Have you ever heard about diet by Dr Kwasniewski (optimal diet)?
http://www.homodiet.co.za/misc/cv_jk.htm
(3-5 first articles from left column will descirbe basics)
(at the moment please do not focus on miracles provided by site owner)
1.brute isn't sure if there are necessarily long-term benefits of ketosis, at least not for all humans. for brute, it feels nice to never be hungry, be more calm emotionally, and generally feel less up and down all the time. it just feels more normal than not being in ketosis.

2.ketosis instantly fixed brute's insomnia, so that was a big plus.

3.brute has never cared much about high total cholesterol, as he knows that it isn't actually bad - doctors are just misinformed. brute's actual lab values are great, as recently discussed with a vegan somewhere here on the forum. brute's trig/HDL ratio is <2, where 4+ is "cardiovascular risk". said vegan was at 3.8. brute's blood glucose is often in the "medical coma" region, where doctors are astonished he's alive. he's tested "below threshold" of some glucose meters when fasting. this is where diabetics not in ketosis would go into hypoglycemic coma.

4.most humans in the US get health care through their job. as brute is currently employed, there was no change. for ACA or other individual insurance schemes, brute has no clue.

5.brute does not worry about his long term health. frankly, he doesn't know what to be concerned about. blood glucose is completely in check, blood lipids are in great shape unless doctor is uneducated about total cholesterol, weight is stable, diet is delicious and effortless. the only thing that brute is potentially worried about is that, eventually, the ketone metabolic pathways could burn out like the glucose ones do in long term diabetics. currently, there does not seem to be any research on this.

Stahlmann
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Re: brute journal

Post by Stahlmann » Sat May 27, 2017 4:04 pm

2.ketosis instantly fixed brute's insomnia, so that was a big plus.

Really? How?
I mean most people suffer from 'high' as effect of ketosis.

I think robots are restless. So I move on.

How have dealt with injuries during so long journey of sports training?
If you are lucky, how about people in your community?
I mean most common like: knee, shoulder, elbow, low back.
Especially if we try to solve that on ERE budget.

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BRUTE
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Re: brute journal

Post by BRUTE » Sat May 27, 2017 6:12 pm

Stahlmann wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 3:16 pm
Have you ever heard about diet by Dr Kwasniewski (optimal diet)?
http://www.homodiet.co.za/misc/cv_jk.htm
(3-5 first articles from left column will descirbe basics)
(at the moment please do not focus on miracles provided by site owner)
seems like a pretty normal low-carb diet. brute has heard of it, but not found it super interesting. the idea that there is a certain macro nutrient ratio that will optimize every goal for all humans, independent of all other factors, seems pretty untrue to brute. the Zone Diet is similar, just with slightly different ratios (4:3:3 or something).

ps: credit for calling it the homo diet^^

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BRUTE
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Re: brute journal

Post by BRUTE » Sat May 27, 2017 6:14 pm

Stahlmann wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 4:04 pm
2.ketosis instantly fixed brute's insomnia, so that was a big plus.

Really? How?
I mean most people suffer from 'high' as effect of ketosis.

I think robots are restless. So I move on.

How have dealt with injuries during so long journey of sports training?
If you are lucky, how about people in your community?
I mean most common like: knee, shoulder, elbow, low back.
Especially if we try to solve that on ERE budget.
brute isn't sure about the how. he just sleeps better on keto than with sugar. probably related to the fact that brute can't handle carbs well, and that includes sleeping well on them?

brute wouldn't describe ketosis as a "high", rather a "mellow".

brute hasn't had many injuries, but he is also a very intermittent trainee, rarely sticking to any one thing. brute's biggest injuries have been due to motorcycling, not working out.

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BRUTE
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Re: brute journal

Post by BRUTE » Sat May 27, 2017 6:44 pm

James_0011 wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 1:33 pm
He doesn't provide an overview specifically because he doesn't want his work to be dumbed down or misrepresented. Kind of like how paleo and vegan circles become this oversimplified dogma.
having read a few articles and skimming the forums, it seems like Peating is pretty close to what brute eats. high animal products, high dairy, low plants. difference is that Peat recommends fruits (not vegetables), whereas brute basically doesn't eat any fruits at all. tbh, brute thinks this difference is negligible as long as carb count is kept manageable. Peat gets 3 more vitamins, which isn't bad, but also doesn't make a difference. brute doesn't get the sugar from fruits, which probably doesn't matter much on an otherwise animal product based diet.

George the original one
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Re: brute journal

Post by George the original one » Sat May 27, 2017 9:36 pm

BRUTE wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 12:57 pm
brute isn't sure why high blood pressure is bad exactly besides correlating with other incidents like heart disease. maybe it causes heart disease.
High blood pressure causes the heart to work harder. If the high blood pressure is extreme from clogged arteries, then it doesn't matter how fit the person is because they'll just wear out the heart muscle. Clogged arteries are down to lifestyle, though some people are more/less susceptible due to their genetics.

The other vulnerable spot for high blood pressure are the thin-walled veins in the brain [note I'm not a medico, so my terminology is loose and very layman]. They can burst due to high blood pressure and produce strokes. Or swell and produce aneurisms. Some people (me & my kinfolk) have a predisposition for strokes... unclear whether it is genetic (likely) or lifestyle (possible), but it exists.

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Re: brute journal

Post by Dragline » Sat May 27, 2017 9:43 pm

This is exactly what caused one of my brothers to have a stroke recently. Nothing good about high blood pressure.

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BRUTE
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Re: brute journal

Post by BRUTE » Sat May 27, 2017 10:26 pm

then brute recommends fasting and/or keto to lower blood pressure :)

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Re: brute journal

Post by Dragline » Sat May 27, 2017 10:30 pm

+1

Stahlmann
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Re: brute journal

Post by Stahlmann » Sun May 28, 2017 1:08 am

George the original one wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 9:36 pm
BRUTE wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 12:57 pm
brute isn't sure why high blood pressure is bad exactly besides correlating with other incidents like heart disease. maybe it causes heart disease.
High blood pressure causes the heart to work harder. If the high blood pressure is extreme from clogged arteries, then it doesn't matter how fit the person is because they'll just wear out the heart muscle. Clogged arteries are down to lifestyle, though some people are more/less susceptible due to their genetics.

The other vulnerable spot for high blood pressure are the thin-walled veins in the brain [note I'm not a medico, so my terminology is loose and very layman]. They can burst due to high blood pressure and produce strokes. Or swell and produce aneurisms. Some people (me & my kinfolk) have a predisposition for strokes... unclear whether it is genetic (likely) or lifestyle (possible), but it exists.
How about unclogging them? In what way?

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Re: brute journal

Post by ThisDinosaur » Sun May 28, 2017 8:44 am

BRUTE wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 12:41 pm
just because the body can make some nutrients doesn't mean eating them is not beneficial - now the body doesn't HAVE to make them....there is a difference between "not dead" and "optimal".
Agreed. There are also some nutrients that are not considered *essential* because we can make them, but not in high enough quantities.
My main point is that extreme diets are probably much further from "optimal" than most people think. I say this as someone who is prone to extremes. My larger point is that humans are omnivores through and through. Variety in the diet isn't just to hedge against one's individual ignorance about all the micronutrients in a complete diet. It's not even just a hedge against the limited *science* about all the minor trace molecules in a complete diet. The role of variety in the diet is that we really simply cannot get all of the things we need in just a few foods from one group. Pandas basically exclusively eat bamboo. As a result, they 1)get everything nutrient-wise they need from it and 2)can't really eat anything else. By contrast, humans and rats can eat damn near anything. As a result we 1)need to eat lots of different things to meet our requirements and 2) can do fairly well in very different climates with different available foods.

brute isn't sure why high blood pressure is bad exactly besides correlating with other incidents like heart disease. maybe it causes heart disease.
High blood pressure is first and foremost a sign that the blood vessels cant dilate and contract to maintain appropriate flow to the organs. This usually means atherosclerosis; the cholesterol-laden plaque in the arteries that starts forming when you are a teenager. Depending on genetics and environment, the amount of atherosclerotic plaques in your blood vessels eventually reaches critical mass and the organs themselves (especially heart and kidneys) start malfunctioning. George is right that high blood pressure causes the heart to work harder. This causes the muscle to thicken, just like the other muscles in your body. But this is bad news in a heart that has poorly responsive blood vessels because they are full of plaque. If you do something strenuous your heart rate goes up and the force of contraction increases. This places an oxygen demand on the heart, which is more difficult to meet if their is 1)more muscle to feed and 2)less O2 supply because the coronary arteries are narrowed. That's how you get heart attacks, angina, arrhythmias, and heart failure.

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Re: brute journal

Post by George the original one » Sun May 28, 2017 11:29 am

Stahlmann wrote:
Sun May 28, 2017 1:08 am
How about unclogging them? In what way?
Options: diet, drugs, & surgery. AFAIK, diet only really prevents further buildup, though it may help unclog if the deposits are of the right kind. Lipitor is the commonly used drug... believe it only works on softer deposits plus the question of whether you've changed diet and the usual problems of side effects. Surgery is rotorooter-style and has its hazards; believe it is usually the last resort.

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