Background:
- in my first semester of university. Degree takes 3-4 years
- studying economics and comp sci
- dad owns electrical company
I am faced with a dilemma:
Option A
Continue with university and get my degree.
PROS: Having a degree is great security
CONS: 4 years without substantial income; stress; I don't particularly enjoy school (as compared to self-study).
Option B
Become an apprentice and become a journeyman electrician within 4 years. Work for my dad's company. Eventually it is likely that I can take over company (guessing ~5 years)
PROS: Lots of money; job security; great possiblity for advancement. Can have the company passed on to me.
CONS: No university degree; There is also the lingering question (that I can never seem to answer) "is this what I want to do with my life?"
Option C (first I'd have to convince my parents)
Both - work 2-3 days/week, school 2-3 days/week
PROS: Get a degree, cash and a journeymens
CONS: Takes longer. Possibly redundant.
Regarding finances: Factoring in the possiblity of taking over company, option B is probably the most lucrative. Journeyman electricians start at $70,000 and make up to $100,000 with bonuses and overtime. Also note that my education will cost me up to $13,000 (I have to pay for last two years).
**I know this is a highly personal choice, I'm just asking for some feedback.
What would you do?
B.
Reading between the lines on this post and others by you, I think that's what you want to do, and the most important thing is that you follow your passion.
In your shoes, I'd do A, but that's because I think school and programming are fun. (I'm not sure I entirely succeeded in putting myself in your shoes...
In either case, you're not really locked into anything. 4 years to journeyman or diploma, 5 years to ERE. You'll be 27 (?) and free to do whatever you want then.
I think too often people get hung up on "is this what I want to do *forever*?". Instead: "is this what I want to do for the next few years?" The next few years is all you can predict with any accuracy.
Reading between the lines on this post and others by you, I think that's what you want to do, and the most important thing is that you follow your passion.
In your shoes, I'd do A, but that's because I think school and programming are fun. (I'm not sure I entirely succeeded in putting myself in your shoes...
In either case, you're not really locked into anything. 4 years to journeyman or diploma, 5 years to ERE. You'll be 27 (?) and free to do whatever you want then.
I think too often people get hung up on "is this what I want to do *forever*?". Instead: "is this what I want to do for the next few years?" The next few years is all you can predict with any accuracy.
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AnneBentham
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You can make a good paying career (and early FIRE) out of both your options. I think the key is to understand what it is that you want to do. Note that school is nothing like working in the real world and I think judging by the classes alone might be a mistake.
If you are worried about stress in your school program, I would also consider how much stress you might have in option B. I can easily see how running your own business might involve significantly more stress and time.
Since you are already in your first year, I would consider a variant on akratic's option D. Finish the year and then work for your dad over the summer (and decide then). Also talk to people who have graduated in your field and see what work they are doing.
BTW, 13k for two years of education is a bargain.
If you are worried about stress in your school program, I would also consider how much stress you might have in option B. I can easily see how running your own business might involve significantly more stress and time.
Since you are already in your first year, I would consider a variant on akratic's option D. Finish the year and then work for your dad over the summer (and decide then). Also talk to people who have graduated in your field and see what work they are doing.
BTW, 13k for two years of education is a bargain.
Knowing what I know now, I would also go for option B or D. However, the "knowing what I know now" part is a huge caveat. College helped me grow socially and gave me the confidence to know that I really can accomplish "whatever I put my mind to." The degree may or may not have been worth the costs (tuition+opportunity) in terms of salary, but I got many intangibles out of the experience.
So you may need to look at yourself and ask how important those intangibles are TO YOU (I'm sure many people your age already have the self-awareness others seek in college... since you're investigating ERE this may be very likely indeed). It may come down to whether you know for sure that ERE is really for you. If you get sucked into the rat race years from now, you may just end up wishing you had that degree.
I agree with others that 13k for 4 years is a great deal if college is what you want. It makes the discounted cash flow calculations much more viable.
Either way, I'm definitely jealous of your options. If I had an "in" back in high school, I may just have taken the job as an electrician. As it happened, I knew almost nothing about that career path so couldn't even make an informed decision. Kudos for putting in the effort now to figure out what you want.
So you may need to look at yourself and ask how important those intangibles are TO YOU (I'm sure many people your age already have the self-awareness others seek in college... since you're investigating ERE this may be very likely indeed). It may come down to whether you know for sure that ERE is really for you. If you get sucked into the rat race years from now, you may just end up wishing you had that degree.
I agree with others that 13k for 4 years is a great deal if college is what you want. It makes the discounted cash flow calculations much more viable.
Either way, I'm definitely jealous of your options. If I had an "in" back in high school, I may just have taken the job as an electrician. As it happened, I knew almost nothing about that career path so couldn't even make an informed decision. Kudos for putting in the effort now to figure out what you want.
I would probably take option A. There are just too many employers who won't consider you if you don't have a college degree. Even though that's stupid. Even though the person doing the hiring probably learned close to nothing in college.
What you read on this site is likely a minority viewpoint, and the posts are contributed by a biased group of people (i.e. those with an interest in ERE/FI).
Akratic's "D" option also seems to be a very good alternative.
If you want to go the B route, my suggestion is make sure your dad knows if you're thinking of the ERE path-- talk it out with him. Make sure you both on the same plan.
What you read on this site is likely a minority viewpoint, and the posts are contributed by a biased group of people (i.e. those with an interest in ERE/FI).
Akratic's "D" option also seems to be a very good alternative.
If you want to go the B route, my suggestion is make sure your dad knows if you're thinking of the ERE path-- talk it out with him. Make sure you both on the same plan.
I would choose A.
In college you get to have great experiences and socialize with lots of people your own age you wouldn't otherwise meet (many of them female if you catch my meaning). I had a great time in college and I'm so glad I went. Why hurry up and get to work, you're only young once and not for very long, I say enjoy it.
With a college degree you can make money without physical exertion. In the summer time I head out after work and go bike riding, kayaking, mountain climbing, etc. My blue collar friends are usually too tired after a hard day at work. If you throw your back out and you're an electrician, you are either miserable or out of work. You can work at a desk with a broken leg, bad back, etc.
My freshman year courses were not fun because I was in Western Traditions, English 101, Music Appreciation, etc. From sophomore year on the courses were much more interesting and I began to excel at them because it was fun (physics, statics, fluids, etc).
That said, if you really hate school go with B.
In college you get to have great experiences and socialize with lots of people your own age you wouldn't otherwise meet (many of them female if you catch my meaning). I had a great time in college and I'm so glad I went. Why hurry up and get to work, you're only young once and not for very long, I say enjoy it.
With a college degree you can make money without physical exertion. In the summer time I head out after work and go bike riding, kayaking, mountain climbing, etc. My blue collar friends are usually too tired after a hard day at work. If you throw your back out and you're an electrician, you are either miserable or out of work. You can work at a desk with a broken leg, bad back, etc.
My freshman year courses were not fun because I was in Western Traditions, English 101, Music Appreciation, etc. From sophomore year on the courses were much more interesting and I began to excel at them because it was fun (physics, statics, fluids, etc).
That said, if you really hate school go with B.
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AlexOliver
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"In college you get to have great experiences and socialize with lots of people your own age you wouldn't otherwise meet (many of them female if you catch my meaning). I had a great time in college and I'm so glad I went"
It seems those things are always connected. I had a good time in college=you should go, I had a bad time in college/lots of student debt/it wasn't worth it=you shouldn't go.
It seems those things are always connected. I had a good time in college=you should go, I had a bad time in college/lots of student debt/it wasn't worth it=you shouldn't go.
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sethwmiller
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- Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:26 am
I feel like if I were in your position I would choose A while knowing that B would be an option later on.
I would also agree with the comment that you don't need to know right now what you will be doing in ten or twenty years. I feel like the important thing is to know that you have options and by ending up doing both you could have a lot of options.
I would also agree with the comment that you don't need to know right now what you will be doing in ten or twenty years. I feel like the important thing is to know that you have options and by ending up doing both you could have a lot of options.
Thanks for all the input.
There is a consensus that college is good and worth pursing. OK. But how about in the reverse order?
That is,
apprentice-->electrician-->company owner-->(sell company?)-->FI (ERE)--> College (just for fun.)
Just a thought that came to me.
Of course, there is no 'right' answer. I'll just go with what I feel is best..
There is a consensus that college is good and worth pursing. OK. But how about in the reverse order?
That is,
apprentice-->electrician-->company owner-->(sell company?)-->FI (ERE)--> College (just for fun.)
Just a thought that came to me.
Of course, there is no 'right' answer. I'll just go with what I feel is best..
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AlexOliver
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- Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:25 pm
I'm on the [trade school -> work -> FIRE -> college (maybe)] track. It makes a lot of financial sense (to me, because I'd be going into $50k-$200k worth of debt in order to pursue a degree) to have your needs taken care of before you embark on something that spendy with so much risk involved (what if you don't want to work in your field? what if you don't want to work? etc).
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jacob
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I've noticed that maturity is roughly log-scaled. This poses a problem for those who wait too long doing X. A person tends to have different priorities at 18 and 36 respectively. Due to the log scaling, there's less difference between 36 and 27 than between 27 and 18.
It's tough to say which is better. I honestly believe that college is an IQ/"fitting into a system" test more than anything else. I believe I can teach myself 95% of everything they teach in college. It's kinda hard to separate that opinion from the fact that I do have a long university education, however. On the other hand, I was reading college text books before I went there, so ... we're back to the public library card. A college degree is the white collar union card.
What kind of work do you enjoy?
It's tough to say which is better. I honestly believe that college is an IQ/"fitting into a system" test more than anything else. I believe I can teach myself 95% of everything they teach in college. It's kinda hard to separate that opinion from the fact that I do have a long university education, however. On the other hand, I was reading college text books before I went there, so ... we're back to the public library card. A college degree is the white collar union card.
What kind of work do you enjoy?
On the ERE->college suggestion, it completely depends on what you want from college:
If it's just a degree (white-collar union card as Jacob calls it), graduating later in life may not help that much. At that point, it will be clear from your resume that you don't "fit in," which some would argue is the whole purpose of a degree.
If it's education, I think you can do that without college. See above. However, if the price is right it may be worth it.
If it's socialization, I think you definitely want to do that when you are young. I went to school with some older classmates and they just didn't fit in, having completely different priorities.
On balance, I don't see that much value in ERE->college. Although it wouldn't hurt, you lose most of the benefits. Maybe you just want to be able to say you did it.
If it's just a degree (white-collar union card as Jacob calls it), graduating later in life may not help that much. At that point, it will be clear from your resume that you don't "fit in," which some would argue is the whole purpose of a degree.
If it's education, I think you can do that without college. See above. However, if the price is right it may be worth it.
If it's socialization, I think you definitely want to do that when you are young. I went to school with some older classmates and they just didn't fit in, having completely different priorities.
On balance, I don't see that much value in ERE->college. Although it wouldn't hurt, you lose most of the benefits. Maybe you just want to be able to say you did it.
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AlexOliver
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- Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:25 pm
@dragoncar: Personally I learn a lot from discussion/bouncing ideas off one another, and college is good for that. Also, wrt ERE and socialization at college- if one went to a trade school (1 yr), retired in 5-6 years, they would only be 25 when theyd be going back, so it's not that much of a difference, especially if a high percentage of the student body was ex-military, as mine is.
Probably depends on your current situation.
If you have an obligation such as starting a family then it would make sense to start work and earn a living - you don't have a choice here.
If you're single and in your early 20's then either choices won't affect your much - so long as one obtains a college degree by late 20's.
Early 20's is nice because one can afford to make mistakes for about 5 years or so and still be on track later in life.
If this was my choice to make, I would go with work/study combination for various reasons.
1. I've had to do this anyway, to cover living expenses and tuition so I was always either a full time student working part time (finished my BS), or vice versa (finished my MS).
2. You're not putting all your eggs in one basket plus you already have work experience when you graduate which puts your miles ahead of your fellow graduates.
I would advise that you pick a major that complements your work experience - i.e. electrical engineering so that both your study and work experience benefit each other.
If you have an obligation such as starting a family then it would make sense to start work and earn a living - you don't have a choice here.
If you're single and in your early 20's then either choices won't affect your much - so long as one obtains a college degree by late 20's.
Early 20's is nice because one can afford to make mistakes for about 5 years or so and still be on track later in life.
If this was my choice to make, I would go with work/study combination for various reasons.
1. I've had to do this anyway, to cover living expenses and tuition so I was always either a full time student working part time (finished my BS), or vice versa (finished my MS).
2. You're not putting all your eggs in one basket plus you already have work experience when you graduate which puts your miles ahead of your fellow graduates.
I would advise that you pick a major that complements your work experience - i.e. electrical engineering so that both your study and work experience benefit each other.
I worked as an electrician full-time for almost 3 years while also finishing my undergrad degree full-time (16-20 credits/semester) at a good, local school at night, weekends and online. Work and school were my whole life though. And balancing my time for various classes was a juggling act since it was so limited (e.g. "I know I have an A average in this class, so I can afford to hand in a half-done homework assignment, and instead study for my mid-term in the class where I think I've only got a B-"). Even my lunch breaks were spent doing homework. But at that point, school becomes all about getting the degree, and learning interesting things was more like a fringe benefit than the primary purpose.
I'm in grad school now, no full-time job, and I'm just about financially independent (plan to be next year). And I find school is much more pleasant without the high-pressure to get good grades and land internships so that I can pad the resume for after graduation. Now, instead, school is about what it should be about, learning for the sake of itself.
If it were me, I'd go option B, but only if I knew I could save at least 70-80% of my pay for the next 5-8 years. Then I'd retire in my mid 20's, and if I still felt like it, THEN go to school so I could worry about my comprehension of the material and enjoying myself, rather than about my GPA and how it will effect my future career prospects.
I'm in grad school now, no full-time job, and I'm just about financially independent (plan to be next year). And I find school is much more pleasant without the high-pressure to get good grades and land internships so that I can pad the resume for after graduation. Now, instead, school is about what it should be about, learning for the sake of itself.
If it were me, I'd go option B, but only if I knew I could save at least 70-80% of my pay for the next 5-8 years. Then I'd retire in my mid 20's, and if I still felt like it, THEN go to school so I could worry about my comprehension of the material and enjoying myself, rather than about my GPA and how it will effect my future career prospects.
I think it's anything but option C. By virtue of it being the easiest choice itself, I think it can pretty much be ruled out.Somehow 'have your cake and eat it too' kind of choices mostly don't lead anywhere (I think), as they are not even choices in the truest sense. All you're doing is to buy more time to choose. Now , it could be said that it's best to keep your options open- with option c, in this instance, but if that were the way to live, not one decision could ever be made. With this, you'll most likely end up hating both, school and job, with the schedule you'll likely end up with. ( However, some people pull it off remarkably well- the kind that don't need to eat or sleep; and so like you've said, it's personal and you're the best judge). So, that leaves us with options A and B. This is a real choice you're going to have to make. But you'll need to iron out the reasoning first I think: OPTION A "Having a degree is great security"- Psychologically or for real? If you mean for real, how so? More security than knowing a good trade?
"4 years without substantial income; stress; I don't particularly enjoy school" - I couldn't agree more. I did the 4 year-gig myself. It got me a job in megacorp though, with good pay and benefits. ( which I'll say goodbye to, the moment I'm FI ) So, I had real use for the degree.Do you think you'll put it to use? If not , it's probably a waste of time. Learning's best done from 'real' books and from 'real' experience. School, as far as I've seen, has neither.
Option B
PROS: "Lots of money; job security; great possibility for advancement" - looks likely, if done right. But it's not as easy as it may seem. You'll need at least little first hand experience before you can judge.
CONS: "No university degree" - You forgot to insert the con in that sentence
It doesn't say anything by itself, unless you're obsessed with degrees, in which case, your dilemma is solved-option A.
There is also the lingering question (that I can never seem to answer) "is this what I want to do with my life?" - I know what that's like...this is on auto replay in my head all the time, and I'm even more clueless
Good luck with whatever you choose to do!
"4 years without substantial income; stress; I don't particularly enjoy school" - I couldn't agree more. I did the 4 year-gig myself. It got me a job in megacorp though, with good pay and benefits. ( which I'll say goodbye to, the moment I'm FI ) So, I had real use for the degree.Do you think you'll put it to use? If not , it's probably a waste of time. Learning's best done from 'real' books and from 'real' experience. School, as far as I've seen, has neither.
Option B
PROS: "Lots of money; job security; great possibility for advancement" - looks likely, if done right. But it's not as easy as it may seem. You'll need at least little first hand experience before you can judge.
CONS: "No university degree" - You forgot to insert the con in that sentence
It doesn't say anything by itself, unless you're obsessed with degrees, in which case, your dilemma is solved-option A.There is also the lingering question (that I can never seem to answer) "is this what I want to do with my life?" - I know what that's like...this is on auto replay in my head all the time, and I'm even more clueless
Good luck with whatever you choose to do!