Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Where are you and where are you going?
OTCW
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by OTCW » Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:21 pm

Teaching is a whole lot of work, a lot of which is not appreciated by anyone. Throw in disinterested or troublesome or unprepared students and parents that run the gamut from absent to hovering to full of blame, and it is a tough profession. All for not much money. Time off is above average if you are looking for an upside.

TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox » Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:52 pm

EdithKeeler wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:28 am
What you’re describing sounds more to me like a state agency than a non-profit, per se. Sure, some non-profits may look like this, but not all. Wasn’t your last job with a state university? Wasn’t it a non-profit? Remember, “non-profit” mostly refers to tax code status and what they are allowed to do with their profits and not all jobs at a non-profit means face-time with the needy or whoever they serve. Keep in mind that up until a few years ago, the NFL was a non-profit. Much of the time, work at a non-profit may not look that much different from work at a for-profit company—they probably still have an accounting department, for example.
https://www.pathwaysvermont.org/what-we ... ing-first/

^ I guess I mean something like this link. You're totally right though. The university I was working for is a non-profit, and yet it basically felt like I was working in corporate and just getting paid less. I was still effectively expected to work past 5 PM and on weekends. I was still effectively expected to always be available on my phone. I still wasn't really directly helping anyone, either.

Good news is with the MPA, I can work for a state agency, a federal agency, NGOs, or non-profits. Corporate is mostly out, and that's okay by me.

-------------

SEO Content Creator/Editor?

Another friend of mine living in Philadelphia who has a similar personality to me found a job as an SEO content creator/editor. I think what she does is write and edit articles. She enjoys the writing, likes her co-workers (who are mostly young and well-educated), and gets paid 40k/yr with benefits.

Viktor K
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Viktor K » Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:46 pm

OTCW wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:21 pm
Teaching is a whole lot of work, a lot of which is not appreciated by anyone. Throw in disinterested or troublesome or unprepared students and parents that run the gamut from absent to hovering to full of blame, and it is a tough profession. All for not much money. Time off is above average if you are looking for an upside.
Depends where you teach. Teaching in China is a joke and you have 30 hours/week more than you would have in the US to spend developing other skills.

theanimal
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by theanimal » Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:21 pm

I heard something recently where something like 40% of searches on Google no longer generate any clicks. The reason being that Google now offers a synopsis/summary/answer at the top of the page. I think the importance and role of SEO will continue to diminish going forward.

I still think you should do something outdoor oriented west of the Mississippi.

jacob
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by jacob » Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:13 am

Teaching in a mandatory institutional setting (school, high school, college, university) is more like daycare. In a class of 20, only 2-3 students will be as interested in the subject as you (the teacher) are. This only became clear to me after TA'ing paying undergraduates. Prior I must have presumed that everybody else was like me (I was one of those 2-3 students) while forgetting my "K-12" classes where I in most cases was one of the others who were just doing time/paying the required minimum amount of attention.

I think the same [student] attitude exists in corporate style training. The only place where I still imagine people attending enthusiastically are "self-development" courses. E.g. yoga class, meditation, soul cycling, ... the question is how much money is in that.

You have to figure out/know if you care or are affected by the fact that most of your students would rather be somewhere else.

As for SEO content creation, on the blog I get a lot of spam from people offering their warez in the form of "infographics" or "an exciting article (with some sneaky dofollow links) tailored to my audience" paying a "small fee" for my "inconvenience" of posting it. This kind of work certainly exists although I don't know if all the spam comes from the same person using different names or how that goes. I know someone who does and speaks of assignments like "please write 30 different articles just about recycling containers" and she can hammer those out in one day.

TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox » Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:25 pm

I don't think I'd like teaching off the cuff, but what about Remote Work?

Hm, a friend with a masters in education who has two kids is also happy working at a company called Everfi: https://everfi.com/about/careers/current-openings/

It sounds like a "you must drink the koolaid" sort of place, BUT the work is completely remote and you earn more than 40k/yr. I could do this while getting the MS in psych at least, or while traveling!

Same with the remote insurance job that theanimal has. I could apply for that too. These are the kind of jobs I could keep for a while too. I think a person in my old job had a partner that did remote insurance work too. I could try asking them for a remote job.

I think this would be an interesting trajectory to try. It wouldn't be counseling per se, but it would be remote and talking to people, and that would let me get my travel bug filled. Not to mention I don't have to show up to an office every day and it'd be immediate income. I really only need around 50K more (about a year of work) to be at barebones FI, and I don't want to have to wait 2-7 years to have an income again.

Viktor K
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Viktor K » Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:03 pm

One of the only times I found my student cared about my classes was when I was teaching adults/college students English in the US. I think this was because first, they couldn't speak their native tongues together since they were from all over the world, and second, they had a real reason to want to learn, being in the host country, and needing to get certain scores on their English tests to get into school, which meant keeping their student visas.

I think finding something part-time or chill until you can get a good partner/friend group would be key. Wouldn't recommend abroad for the same reason. Finding friends can be hard in the US, with everyone being so independent and anti-love on the average. Hobbies help. Already met several people from playing soccer. As well, online gaming friends tend to be pretty cool whenever you meet them IRL.

My life changed when I met my girlfriend as well, so think a strong partner could make a difference. Been watching a lot of Married at First Sight, though, so I could be emphasizing a strong relationship too much.

Gilberto de Piento
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Gilberto de Piento » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:04 pm

+1 to what Edith said, some non profits are businesses in disguise or are run by type a personalities that won't give you what you are looking for.

Regarding teaching, many states will allow you to teach public school with a bachelor's in anything instead of a teacher's license. You are more likely to get a job if you can teach in an area where teachers are in short supply like math or special ed.

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RFS
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by RFS » Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:33 pm

TopHatFox wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:30 am
Teaching, More Ruling-Outs

@RFS Do you know the steps one would take to become a teacher without a Masters in Ed?
You take an exam that determines whether you are proficient in your content area (these are shockingly easy.) Being in Florida, yours would be the FTCE. The state will issue you a provisional certificate, and you can start applying for teaching jobs. If you peruse a county's website, there's usually a chart that shows each school's performance on standardized tests. When you're applying, you want to aim for the ones in the middle. That's the sweet spot for new teachers. The ones at the top get a ton of applicants, but the ones in the middle receive significantly less applicants and are only slightly less nice. You want to avoid the ones at the very bottom (usually.)

Once you get a job, you work that school year. If you want to keep teaching, you enroll in some type of teaching certification program during year 2. I've seen the costs range from $1k-$7k. They can take 1-2 years to complete. Once you complete it, the state gives you a renewable certificate.

All the other comments about teaching are mostly true. Still, I cannot deny that I have seen a massive quality of life boost since switching from sales to teaching. I think teaching is one of the last bastions of decent middle-class work.

TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox » Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:35 pm

SEPTEMBER 2019

I think I’m going to pick up the habit of just journaling here whenever I feel good or bad. Journaling is helpful.

I’ve started taking the 6 classes and they’re going well thus far. It was a bit of a headache getting big-uni to let me take excess credits, but I finally got that all approved.

The gf and I are getting along well, but we still only hangout on weekends. I don’t think this is enough for me since I have too much free time during the week. Free time = laying around the house with the occasional paper or assignment.

I think I need a job again. A job would likely be helpful. It’d provide more structure, a schedule to follow. Then I’d have the holy grail of a partner and something to do. Maybe an in-person friend or two as well. I applied to a job yesterday (the one at the Everfi place), and that felt good. It sounded sales-oriented and corporate, so I will likely hate it, but still, it felt like I was really addressing a hole in my life that needs to be addressed. All the other times I was unemployed, I was able to apply and find a new job quickly. The difference now is that I’m taking an 8 month education gap.

I will probably have to wait at least until April to get another full-time job again. Unless if I choose to take on less classes in the Spring.

I’m thinking for my next job, I’ll likely apply to counseling-like roles such as academic advisor or career advisor. It’s ironic, but then, I’ve done extensive research on so many career fields, and even if I’m a bad fit/can’t do most of them, I’m sure other people can, and I can help them get there.

---------------

Ah, fuck it. Now that I'm done with the GRE, I'm going to start applying for a new job. This time a counseling-like job. Literally anything where I'm talking to someone and advising them on something. I can apply putting the upcoming Masters on the resume. I think this will make me feel better. I'll feel like I'm working toward employment and ERE rather than just languishing about taking stupid classes like "leadership."

So I got a 5.5 out of 6 on the GRE writing. I knew I was good at something lol. Maybe I should be a writer. In fact, I'd probably make a great writer. I'm great at all the professions that are lowest on the pay scale. (Y) Still, I probably would like a job where I can write stuff.

-----------------

I think out of all the jobs I've ever come across, and knowing that I prefer anything verbal or creative over anything quantitative or quotidian, I should definitely try out the below careers next. As far as location, ideal would be remote because I can move anywhere. Staying home may also be OK because I don't have to pay rent and can find a job that's sustainable for me before adding on stressors like a new place, real bills, and so on. That said, moving west may also be good. I'd prefer a 2nd tier city or town surrounded by nature compared to any big city.

1. Counselor
2. Psychologist
3. Graphic Designer
4. Writer
5. Advocacy Work
6. Teacher/Professor/Tutor/Corporate Trainer
7. My own business

For the love of all that is good, do not let me take any other type of job, because the money for me is so so tempting. ><

TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox » Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:05 pm

Journal journal journal.

It's become pretty obvious that the cavalry doesn't come in the modern world. No one is going to save you. Most people are too concerned with their own problems to care about yours. As much as I learned that many of our societal and personal problems are systemic and should be changed at the structural level in college, if I want to be successful personally--or otherwise live an interesting life--it's up to me to make it happen. No one else, just me. Maybe my family and my partner and MAYBE one or two close friends, but all the other people will likely bail when the going gets tough.

I've started applying to counseling-like jobs that I can get with a general leadership masters and counseling certificate. Interestingly, I think these may actually be better than straight-up counseling jobs, because apparently the follow-through rate is higher with the population that is serviced by, say, an academic advisor in a university compared to an LMHC downtown. I'm really hoping that having a MS will have an actual effect on my life.

I also really don't know whether to apply for these types of jobs in CO or MN, or to apply for them here in Miami. I'm scared that if I move away and end up hating the job like all the others I've tried, I'd be right back here. Whereas, if I stay here for the next year or two with my gf, I can get to 200k, and be on much stronger footing.

daylen
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by daylen » Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:50 pm

TopHatFox wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:05 pm
No one else, just me.
.. and more than two-thousand years of recorded wisdom (side by side with stupidity). ;)

TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox » Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:54 pm

heh, yeah, I mean the books and podcasts and mentors are helpful, but like, if I don't fix my life, the dead people that wrote the books ain't gonna do it for me.

TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox » Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:02 pm

Updates!

I've had some pretty useful revelations while loafing around in bed learning Portuguese (spoiler: it's basically Spanish):

1. My depression is one part caused by not feeling successful: no job or job I hate, living with parents (sorry ma), no daily time structure
2. My depression is also caused by being lonely: no reliable in-person peeps, social hobbies a 5-10 mile drive away, etc.
3. My depression may very well be physiological: I'll have to try the drugs on my night stand for weeks to see if they do anything

So, I think the way to solve these is:

1. Applying to 10 jobs a day* that MUST be for an INFJ for lack of a better marker. Anything that's counseling, in education, or creative
2. Dedicating a time to work on school-work. As much as I thought these 6 classes would keep me busy, I have way too much free time.
3. Trying to actually show up to in-person hobbies 5-10 miles away, but I'm not sure this one is sustainable. Small towns pls help...

And to schedule this in I could set-up my own structure:

1. 9-12 PM: apply to jobs and call places. They MUST be INFJ jobs. No sales, fin analysis, accounting, admin, or cus serv
2. 12 PM- 5 PM: Do as much schoolwork as possible
3. 6:30 PM - 9:00 PM class, M-W
4. It's probably a good idea to do work in a different place than where I sleep or even in the house

---------------

*For my purposes, I'll also be applying to MS or Phd's in psychology, so each one of those programs count as items to apply to

---------------

Thoughts?

Frita
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Frita » Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:46 pm

K-12 can be really stressful and is notorious for anxiety and/or depression. I don’t know whether it attracts folks with these issues or creates them. I would try subbing before committing to anything. Scope out the vibe at potential schools. It may not be a mentally healthy environment for you.

TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:54 pm

Applying to Clinical Science Psychology PhD Programs

So the clinical science director at the uni I'm going to wrote back saying that my application is competitive for their clinical science phd program. That's really encouraging. I'm thinking instead of applying for a job (which let's be real I'd probably hate), I will start applying for psych phd programs this fall after all.

Yes, a psych PhD is 4-7 years of hard work, but I'll get paid 20-30k while doing it, and the work I can do after will fit. I can teach, counsel, have a private practice, be a researcher, or just get most any job at a non-profit or public agency, especially with the MPA. I think I'm gonna apply to programs out in CO, UT, MN, OR, WA, MA, NH, or VT. And FL as a backup as well.

By age 30 or so, I'd have around 200-300K saved up and a phD that fits me well.

TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:40 pm

MID-SEPTEMBER 2019: DECISION, GREENLIGHT ON PSYCH PHD

So, after years getting on and off different meaningless office jobs and lots of thought & experiences, I've officially decided to go for the PhD in Clinical Science Psychology. I'll end up with base+ ERE and the option to do whatever the fuck profession I want (barring academia, which is way too competitive as a pathway for me to be interested). The apps are due on Dec 1, and I'll be applying to programs in states I'd live to live in. Next steps:

1. Identify programs I'd like to apply to
2. Reach out to the director and ask if my application would be competitive
3. Reach out to specific faculty who's research I'd be interested in for years and ask if they're taking students
4. Write and refine personal statement
5. Reach out to recommenders to write a solid reference letter
6. (Probably) Take GRE Psych Subject Test as required
7. See if I get into any programs in Spring 2020, with tuition and stipend funding of course
8. Either stay in FL with current GF and local program, or move out to out-of-state program in new state
9. Aim to finish PhD in 4-5 years instead of 6-8 years, and save up as much of the stipend as I can each year (a la Jacob)
10. Choose to work as a clinical psychologist after the phd is done, earning 60-70k/yr
11. Get my license and start my own practice after a few years of experience (maybe even through video if I'd like to travel!)

------------

Just found out UVA is holding a diversity day for a clinical psych and school psych doctoral program. Hell yes I'll be applying to that :twisted: !

lol, this feels good. I haven't felt this good in 2-3 years. It's nice to be on a path again, except this time it's a million times more likely to be the right path.

ZAFCorrection
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by ZAFCorrection » Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:07 am

No one ever takes this advice the first time (I only did 2.5 years into my PhD when I was looking for a new advisor), but just in case.... Don't ever join a lab without doing thorough interviews of current students, former students, and adjacent students who know dirt on the PI. Academia is often a dirty business* and your advisor can fuck you, especially if it is more convenient for their career (a pretty common case). Depending on how hard they decide to fuck you, no amount of effort on your part is going to fix it short of switching groups.

*Also, if you have delusions of grandeur regarding the quality of your research, you need to be extra careful about who you join. Academia allows a pretty good amount of fiddly shit to get the research out, so if you are the type who needs to work out all the niggling issues with tools/experimental design/etc. before publication, you need to join a professor who is on board with that. That is usually not the guy who has a TED talk-worthy pitch for his research. TED talk guy was probably p-hacking or something.

TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:43 pm

OCTOBER 2019: LOL JK

I've been digging around asking people what their phd experience was like, and holy shit, it was usually bad. Really, really bad. Socially, financially, mental health-wise, etc. I now agree with Jacob, if you think 9-5 is bad, try a phd. Even found this little gem:

http://100rsns.blogspot.com/p/complete- ... -date.html

It's interesting, the more I do research on different career paths, the more I realize that just getting a job you somewhat like within walking distance in a mid-sized town with some nature and a girlfriend or two is as good as it gets. 50k/yr right now? Great, just save and maybe buy some rental properties; you're not living in New York or LA. If you're bored, make some Youtube videos or work on some other business ideas after work. To this end, I do think the MPA will be helpful in getting a non-profit or government job in such a mid-sized town. Maybe I can even find a role that's somewhat like counseling.

I think I've concluded that I'm okay getting a Masters in Psychology and then an LMHC license. I can be a therapist, I can have my own private practice, I can counsel online, and so on. I really don't want to put myself through the 4-7 year gauntlet that a PhD is. In the past when I've done research as a research assistant, I thought it was some of the most pompous and lonely work I've ever done. I'm kind of relieved that the PhD has lost its shininess to me.

Also interesting: I now realize that working in higher ed as an administrator was actually a really stressful setting, perhaps even worse than corporate. You are surrounded by pretty and clueless 18-22 year olds that think you're a dinosaur at 25, crusty professors that think you're "cute" for having a masters degree, and Deans or upper-management that literally needed PhDs to get their jobs. Meanwhile, you earn 45k/yr and the workload never stops except for parts of the Summer.

I think at this point, the only avenues I've yet to explore include the trades and geology. Maybe that trade job someone posted in Pennsylvania a while back. A friend of mine just got a job out in Nevada as a Geology Technician and she gets to camp 90% of the time. I think she earns 40k/yr. I still think I'd prefer working with people over rocks, but at least I'd be outside.

The new plan: I'm stuck in Miami until the MPA is done in April. I'm sure I could get into the MS in Psychology at the uni here, but it'd take 2 more years to complete. I'd prefer not to stay here that long unless if my gf does too (which Millennial relationships being as they are, I doubt that'd be the case). So, I could start applying to INFJ jobs in a large town somewhere with lots of nature using the MPA. Then maybe getting the MS in Psych later on, or maybe getting it online. Alternatively, I could find another job in Miami (this time one not in higher ed and that I might like a little more), get the MS in psych degree here while continuing to hang with the parents, and save all my (new) salary for 2 more years.
Last edited by TopHatFox on Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:12 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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fiby41
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by fiby41 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:06 pm

Teaching is the easiest job in that income range. Months of paid vacations, no stress to complete syllabus on time, pay not linked to the only metric that matters- performance of students.

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