Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Where are you and where are you going?
Salathor
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Salathor » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:48 pm

classical_Liberal wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:22 pm
There will always be something missing, something that could be better. We have to learn to accept the missing part and enjoy the remaining hundreds of tiles.
We call this the philosophy of "Don't look so close" in our house, and it's surprisingly applicable to both real life and to satisfaction with home maintenance.

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TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox » Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:41 pm

Hm, I tried switching my Okcupid to Missoula/Bozeman and got like 0 people. I don't know if that's because the young people are so counter-cultural that they meet only in meat-space, or because there are just no people there. lol

With this weird online-dating tourism, it seems that somewhere in the front range of CO would make more sense. Maybe find a smaller, inexpensive borough like Greeley, CO, to live in. At least if the area is sparse I can go the town over. If I'm in Missoula or Bozeman, the nearest city is a state over.

--------------

I've also been thinking that the best working solution while accumulating, frankly, is REMOTE WORK. Truth is, I have no direct experience living in most of the US, so it's stupid to try and pick one place and hope for the best. Much better to continue accumulating and try out places 3-month's at a time. I really want to buckle down and find some sort of 40-50K remote job I can do out of a souped-up Sprinter or Class B RV. Most modern jobs are in an office, but most of the work is by a computer. I don't even see most of the people I e-mail most of the time. Why not just travel and work? Like, this is the difference between saving 500K by early-thirtys and barely knowing anything about the world, and saving the same amount but having traveled extensively, having a mature opinion about different places, and optimizing your chances of piquing the interest of a long-term girlfriend. It's a more balanced way to live and work.

It's decided. I'm gonna try my hardest to make sure my next job is a remote job. Should be interesting to see the results from this newly-minted resolution. C'mon people, I got a job on Wall Street with a Geology degree lmao, I can do this. :lol:

thegreatvoid
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by thegreatvoid » Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:41 pm

Dude , you are way to obsessed about women. Cant make life decision based upon where the best pussy is.

Remember you are the prize! Your sexual market value will only increase with Time.

Plus you come off was to desperate. Women can small that from a mile away

Salathor
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Salathor » Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:47 pm

I went to the RV show last year to see if we could find anything that we could bear to live in. It was TERRIBLE. I spent my youth RVing with my parents and everything we could see now was cheap pressboard garbage even at the ~$130k level for a new RV. The class Bs were nice, admittedly, but they cost the same as a condo in most of the US.

Obviously you could buy used, but man was I disappointed in the cost:value on the ones I saw.

classical_Liberal
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by classical_Liberal » Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:56 pm

Check out used Chinooks. They are high quality, small, and you could pick one up for under 20k. The disadvantage is that they are obviously RV's, so stealth is out the window. Personally, I don't think most manufactured Class B's, even the sprinters, are very stealthy anyway. They are easy to pick out from the cargos.

Salathor
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Salathor » Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:29 pm

TopHatFox wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:41 pm
this is the difference between saving 500K by early-thirtys and barely knowing anything about the world, and saving the same amount but having traveled extensively, having a mature opinion about different places, and optimizing your chances of piquing the interest of a long-term girlfriend.
I don't know if having traveled extensively actually improves your change of getting a girlfriend or not. It may give you a more informed opinion about different places, and your stories could certainly give you an "in" as a means of starting a discussion, but I really think that women are drawn to personality rather than world-travel experience.

I would suggest being confident and kind. I have yet to meet a woman who hasn't been attracted to confident and kind guys. Kindness alone doesn't work, and confidence without kindness might help for dates but not find a girl for long term/marriage.

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TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox » Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:31 pm

The woman thing is a nice side-benefit. I just want to be able to see the world a bit. Travelling extensively and overcoming adversity helps develop personality methinks. Farming in the same place is limiting.

bigato
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by bigato » Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:04 pm

Since you asked people about happiness on the ere path. I thought about listing a series of life events that made my life better and made me overall happier, but I think only one of them is more relevant. I felt much better after I stopped feeling the need to have someone in my life. I still crave for sex but that's manageable and solvable, and you don't really need a full relationship for that, right. I also feel the need for some true friendship and intimacy with people, but that doesn't need to be romantic at all, so also much easier to solve without the drama that frequently comes with a relationship. I don't think a relationship is necessarily a bad thing, but having this need for it tend to put you in co-dependent situations and/or bring suffering. As others have mentioned, you are also in a much better position even to get some relationship if you really don't need or care that much about one.

I don't think I have a recipe on how to stop needing a romantic relationship, but I can give you some hints that I think are relevant and maybe you can figure it out from that, or at least try some stuff. First, I lived for seven years with a woman and having had that experience may have changed me in ways I'm not completely conscious off. But to be honest I don't think it comes down to that.

There was this transition in my life after two very bad relationships in sequence, when I decided to read this book that I heard about, because I thought it would help me understand that girl. It turns out it actually did, but what it did better was that it applied a lot more to me than to her and it opened my eyes to this huge blindspot in my personality and relationship patterns. It was the most important thing that I should have learned about myself back when I was 20 or something. Too bad I read it 15 years too late, because its contents were the main theme of my relationships in my twenties and up to mid thirties. If I had searched the help of a psychologist back then, they could probably have helped me with those issues since looking back, it was pretty obvious. But I just had no idea that I needed that. That's the definition of blindspot, right.

The book is called "Women who love too much" and it does not apply to women only, the title is only because this pattern seems to be found more often in women. Maybe it will help you open a certain can of worms in your psychology and then getting conscious of your patterns is the first step to deal with them, with or without help. And even if it does not apply to you, you find those pattern so often in people around you, that it is very useful to learn them.

Scott 2
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Scott 2 » Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:05 pm

You already have enough to travel the country for years. Look at what C40 spent. Look at what Victor is doing in Hong Kong. You don't need a remote job, just a decision to go. I bet you could take a year off after the Masters and find job prospects only improve. Work could even find you along the way.

It might not be FIRE money, but it's definitely FU money. I think using it to explore these questions is much better than chasing an idealized goal of financial freedom.

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TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:06 am

Been thinking recently that the only way to get wealthy is hard ass work over years. For every person that becomes an overnight multi-millionaire, news stories don't show the years if not decades they dedicated to get there. Likewise, for every van lifer or perma-thru-hiker on Instagram, you don't see the lack of money behind the curtain, or the wealthy parents behind them.

I reached out to a few close friends recently. One's wife killed herself after their divorce, another is working at a restaurant after their BA, and a third did the AT but is now depressed out of her mind at the thought of an office job.

So I guess that's the point right, a good indicator of how well you're doing in life is if you're healthy, working hard, and the progress to goals is slow and steady. There are very few get-rich quick schemes that actually work. If you want to be wealthy, the answer is minimalism, saving, and doing a job or business you're suited for for years. If you want to be glittering rich, the answer is coming up with something people don't know they need yet and then working around the clock to sell the product/idea.

And if you don't put in that hard work in your 20's, then life in your 30's, 40's, 50's will not only be filled with more work, but you won't have as much compound interest to help you on your way. Moreover, becoming a multi-millionaire requires so much fucking effort that I don't think it's worth the trade-off. Becoming a real-estate tycoon, for example, takes risk-taking, years of making mistakes, and even then you may go bankrupt. Running McDonald's franchises will run you ragged on the stress test, and they may flunk too.

I think the happy medium is to do what C40 did, save around 500K in your 20's, and then take really good care of yourself and that money as you age. Then fill your life in your 30's and beyond with meaningful activities, friendships, and relationships that make a life well lived. Make some money on your hobbies, don't rely on the portfolio only, hope the world doesn't collapse, and you end up a millionaire with an interesting life. Steve Jobs literally died with billions in the bank. Would I have wanted to live his life if I could? Probably not.

EdithKeeler
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by EdithKeeler » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:24 am

I think the happy medium is to do what C40 did, save around 500K in your 20's, and then take really good care of yourself and that money as you age. Then fill your life in your 30's and beyond with meaningful activities,
Huh. Interesting. You’d think someone would write a book about this idea. Maybe call it something like “Early Retirement Extreme” or something. 😁

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Lemur
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Lemur » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:33 am

I've had similar thoughts TopHatFox in my early 20s (I'm 28 now). The sooner it is a accepted that the way to get wealthy is some hard work over some years, the easier it is to handle mentally. I, personally, would prioritize health over wealth. I've no qualms about my gym membership, purchasing food that I feel is best for me based on nutritional research, and the occasional purchase of exercise equipment. I love the feeling I get seeing my abs and being able to get up and run a half-marathon if I felt like it.

And now for some analysis...the "harder" part is really subjective! And I say this because of my own interpretations of what it means for the different archetypes:

Salary Man = Being Consistent. Really, it is about consistency.... just show up everyday and don't be late (if you're going to show up late, don't get caught), maybe do some type of work that you find meaningful...even if not meaningful show your superiors / co-workers just enough to not be given the 'useless' target label, and don't piss off the guy that does your "performance review".

Business Man = Optimism, some creativity, thinking outside the box, and risk-taking behavior can be a plus. Hard work may be required initially, but can level off if one is good at management. Creativity isn't even required...many successful businesses just rehash the same old concept (a restaurant for instance, real estate flipping, etc.) but execute well.

Working Man = Working hard, persistence in activities, a bit of hard-hardheadedness goes a long way. A plus if you generally enjoy what your trade is and can find meaning that way. Social skills help as to learn how to divert away from a-holes.

Renaissance man = Creativity, Flexibility, and Adaptability. Being able to manage a lot of different skills.

"Working Hard" would be a part of each one of these archetypes. If you're socially savvy...you can probably get away with being lazy in a salary-man position. If the pay is low enough in the Working Man position, you can probably get away with being lazy their too. If you're creative enough in your money making ventures, and require less spending, you could even be lazy as a renaissance man perhaps. If you're great a managing people, allocating resources, you could even be lazy as a business man (though you may not maximize revenues / cash flow but if that is not the goal it shouldn't matter).

Stahlmann
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Stahlmann » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:49 am

Apart your no 1 earning skill average 3rd worlder is working "harder" than you. I would even argue that us true even for 2nd world.

Beat this.

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prognastat
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by prognastat » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:50 am

Well unless you are extremely gifted or lucky chances are that it's going to require some hard work to achieve anything in life, however as we all know it isn't near what people expect depending on your wants/expectations.

$231,000 saved per person would allow you to live off 1 JAFI at 3% SWR, this isn't an insignificant sum, but by no means does it require Herculean efforts to achieve either. If from 20 to 30 you manage to live off 1 JAFI and have an income of about 23k annually investing the rest you would be FI by 30. To achieve this on full-time work you would need to earn about $11 an hour, if you add overtime or working a second job/side gig you could even get away with a lower hourly wage.
Last edited by prognastat on Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bigato
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by bigato » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:04 pm

Hard work is most definitely not the only way to amass money.

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TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:15 pm

bigato wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:04 pm
Hard work is most definitely not the only way to amass money.
I guess it's the most straight forward way. What are some non-hard work ways to amass money?

EdithKeeler
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by EdithKeeler » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:31 pm

I guess it's the most straight forward way. What are some non-hard work ways to amass money?
1. Live as cheaply as possible and invest the difference. I’m sort of amazed at how much my nut has grown just by putting in bits at a time. Granted thru a bull market.... but also endured the downturn. You know all the tricks for living cheap—roomies, bike, etc.

2. Real estate can help. 7 years in, my rental is paying for its own mortgage plus my basic living expenses. Then see #1. (Again: I had to get thru a rough patch where I was seriously upside down and losing $$).

3. Figure out ways to make money that don’t entail hard work, and by hard work, I mean something you don’t enjoy. I make a little extra money buying and reselling estate sale stuff. If you hate doing it, it’s hard work. If you like it, it’s fun on a Saturday. For you it might mean dog walking or leading tour groups around town.

4. Redefine “hard work.” I work in an office looking at a computer all day. My grandfather worked on drilling rigs and on a farm; he would have laughed uproariously at the idea that sitting on your ass all day is hard work. I keep that in mind on days like today where I’ve had two nasty and heated conversations with attorneys and others. “It’s hard work arguing with these assholes,” she said as she left the office to go eat the free lunch provided by her employer. No.... it’s really not, in the grand scheme.

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prognastat
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by prognastat » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:33 pm

Well you could:
- receive/inherit a large sum from family
- mooching of your friends would require some social skills
- less moral/legal ways such as fraud or fraud-like behaviour

EdithKeeler
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by EdithKeeler » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:47 pm

There is a great interview with Elizabeth Gilbert on LinkedIn. She makes the point that you don’t have to love your job—it may just be ameans to an end. We’ve heard this before in YMOL and other places, too.
https://player.fm/series/hello-monday-2 ... -vocations

classical_Liberal
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by classical_Liberal » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:49 pm

EdithKeeler wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:31 pm
1. Live as cheaply as possible and invest the difference. I’m sort of amazed at how much my nut has grown just by putting in bits at a time. Granted thru a bull market.... but also endured the downturn. You know all the tricks for living cheap—roomies, bike, etc.
I think this is the biggest mistake I made in my youth and the same mistake young people on this forum still make. It all boils down to not having experience with large allotments of time. I'm not just talking get rich slowly compound interest(although that is one component of it). It's that small actions over large periods of time have so much more impact than large actions over short period of time.

There is nothing wrong about wanting to be FI by 30, it's totally doable. The trade off is spending much of your 20's chasing money. I think it works well because many people are the most energetic and career minded at this point. However, if someone is the exception to this rule, there is nothing wrong with spending your 20's doing other things. As long as it's reasonably responsible, and small, life long financial habits are formed and maintained. I spent my 20's chasing money without those good habits and it bit me in the ass. However, I would rather have started my 30's with zero net worth with a shit-ton of great, youthful experiences and skills than 300K. The best would be somewhere in the middle. Because people can always earn more money, but certain phases of life are best for certain experiences.

@Lemur
You don't have to choose one archetype from the book. Mixing and matching throughout your life is the best strategy, IMO

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