Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Where are you and where are you going?
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Gilberto de Piento
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Re: Fox's Journey: Out of the Burrow

Post by Gilberto de Piento » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:14 pm

C40 is doing the blogging/Instagram about travel to earn money thing. He's good at it too. Check in with him to see if he is making money.

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TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: Out of the Burrow

Post by TopHatFox » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:28 pm

Sigh. I think what I'll do is find a 40 hr job that's sustainable for me, live in a van, and park the van at a state park on weekends. Maybe reach 200k before doing anything long-term. I don't like the idea of starving for attention/income streams. I already have my stuff down to a closet, a folding bike/scooter, a backpack/camping gear, and food. Good news is, I've developed an indifference to death over the past couple of months. Should help with dealing with the perception of bear threats. (Y)

I can see it now: helping people during the day, listening to Gregory Alan Isakov in the van, exploring new natural spaces on weekends.

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TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: Out of the Burrow

Post by TopHatFox » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:03 pm

News! I reached out to SEA Semester, a study abroad program I did. Turns out they offer a Wilderness First Responder (WFR)/USCG Medical Care Provider certification course this Dec. 7-13. The cost is $850 normally, $765 for alumni. Food and lodging are free.

Considering the upcoming deadline, I'd need to tell them as soon as possible if I want in.

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BRUTE
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Re: Fox's Journey: Out of the Burrow

Post by BRUTE » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:58 am

brute suggests:

1)getting a job, any job
2)slogging through for at least 2 years

everything else is procrastination at this point

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Tyler9000
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Re: Fox's Journey: Out of the Burrow

Post by Tyler9000 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:07 am

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned elsewhere, but I remember that you had two final interviews. Have you considered simply calling the one that didn't originally work out and letting them know that you would be interested if they have another position available? Obviously there was some strong mutual interest there. Worst case, they have nothing available but will keep you in mind if something pops up. Best case, they're thrilled to finally land the one that got away. ;)

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Kriegsspiel
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Re: Fox's Journey: Out of the Burrow

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:41 am

disparatum wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:06 am
Maybe you are giving yourself too much freedom? You can keep changing the environment to suit your personality/desires, but you can also hold your environment constant and see how you change. There may be variation there (potential for growth, insight) that you wouldn't see otherwise.

Is there some job you could commit to for at least 2 years that has low barriers to entry (ie doesn't require more school) but high barriers to exit (ie your employer is physically isolated, you sign a contract, would feel spectacularly ashamed if you left etc.)?

Some of my greatest growth occurred when I had no other options (or convinced myself there were no other options).
The military checks all the boxes. Tophat can even pick a specialty that offers training for once he gets back to civiliantude.

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C40
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Re: Fox's Journey: Out of the Burrow

Post by C40 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:30 pm

Gilberto de Piento wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:14 pm
C40 is doing the blogging/Instagram about travel to earn money thing. He's good at it too. Check in with him to see if he is making money.
Nope. I basically only get some free stuff. If I count the free stuff at full retail price, I've probably made like $0.08 per hour or some other minuscule amount.

I don't work at it all that much, so more is possible, but IMO Instagram and blogging are poor ways to try to make money, except for an elite few. If you do want money out of them, you really have to kick ass at it and become the elite few, and that takes a lot of work and expertise. For me, for making money, I'm much better off doing other types of work (like making T-shirt designs, or simple photography like senior portraits, pet portraits, weddings, etc).

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TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: Out of the Burrow

Post by TopHatFox » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:12 pm

Wellllll, I give up. I agree with brute. Adventure gigs sound awful too tbh. Minimal pay, extensive hours, out in all weather conditions, making adventures nice mostly for other people.

No, I'm just going to get a 40-50k paying job and do that. All jobs seem to suck one way or the other. I may apply to financial planning gigs again at a different company. Maybe that's what's been happening over the past 1.5 months: a grieving process. Denial of "real world" realities, anger at the education system, bargaining with different alternative paths. I think I'll accept the next full-time gig and stick with it for at least a year while saving every dime I can. The harsh reality is that money and the skills to replace money are the key distinguishers between those with freedom and those stuck. I think if I go in without giving myself the option to leave, I'll be better off.

Now to again figure out how to best thrive in the grind. I don't have any excess stuff. I just have to worry about sleep, laundry, and food prep. Meditation will be essential. Forming good relationships with co-workers will be important. Getting good at the work helpful. Listening to podcasts every day will be vital.

------

I got an interview doing flight crew scheduling next week 4.5 miles away (C works for an airline company). 4 days on at 12hr/wk, 3 days off. $17.50 per hour. Overtime at 1.5x if I work any additional days.

So: 4x12x$17.50 = $840/week, or $40K
And: 1x12x$26.25= $315/week, or $15K

Expected Room expenses: $720, or $8640
Expected Van expenses: $250, or $3000

If I get it, I'll give it a go. Time to join the zombie horde in full gusto. Just can't make any mistakes this time around. (And time to basterdize meditation for profit).

Welcome to the real world, aye?

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distracted_at_work
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Re: Fox's Journey: Out of the Burrow

Post by distracted_at_work » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:57 pm

One of us! One of us! :lol:

I can't say much. Went through the same thing after graduation. From the denial to wanting to write a blog for income.

Just be the best weekend warrior you can be.

classical_Liberal
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Re: Fox's Journey: Out of the Burrow

Post by classical_Liberal » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:26 pm

@Tophatfox
Sigh... I was hoping you'd figure out a way to avoid it, I certainly haven't; but you are far more intelligent and resourceful than I.

In any event, I think you are making the correct (ie only/best) choice given circumstances. You are far ahead of the game re lifestyle, don't let full-time employment force you to compromise.
TopHatFox wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:12 pm
The harsh reality is that money and the skills to replace money are the key distinguishers between those with freedom and those stuck. I think if I go in without giving myself the option to leave, I'll be better off.
Please remember the second is far more difficult to attain than the first. Do not give into lifestyle inflation for convenience. Your time will seem horribly limited and the day will come when the thought of buying pre-made bulk food, or a car to cut cooking/commute times will seem very appealing. Do not give in! These are hard habits to break once established. 200k in savings will come quickly, having to re-learn skills and web-of-goals thinking to replace money will prove more elusive.

Also, don't let "the man" get you down. Dig in and find something about your job you enjoy, something to improve, goals to achieve, etc. This process may take many months to a year, but sticking with/learning a single job will help you find them.
Last edited by classical_Liberal on Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tyler9000
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Re: Fox's Journey: Out of the Burrow

Post by Tyler9000 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:30 pm

TopHatFox wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:12 pm
Now to again figure out how to best thrive in the grind.
Step one: Stop calling work a "grind". Focus on the positives!

Many years ago I moved all the way out to California for a new job. I was super excited about the opportunity and the pay was fantastic, even though there were many warning signs. After three months I knew I had made a terrible mistake and quit. That place was horrible. In the week after I quit, a friend got me an interview with a nearby company in a similar industry that also happened to have a ton of ex-employees of the place I hated. They offered me a job, and I turned it down. I wasn't sure what I wanted, but I knew it wasn't that.

Fast forward a few months, and I was struggling to find a job that suited me. I totally empathize with your emotions, as they read very similar to how I felt during that timeframe. Eventually I realized that the job I turned down was actually a pretty darned good one, and called them back. I figured they had moved on, but it was worth a shot. Yada, yada, yada -- I got the job with a 30% raise over their original offer! Timing worked in my favor in ways unimportant to the story, but the core point is that some bridges take time to properly build.

After I was settled in, my boss and the friend that got me that interview went out to lunch. The topic of me turning down the original offer came up, and I said that I really don't know why I did that but the timing just felt wrong. My friend joked that it must be like going through a tough breakup with a psycho ex where you just can't see anyone for a while. I laughed because he totally nailed it. Fast forward a few months, and the new company was one of the best work cultures I've ever experienced. Same industry, same pool of people, completely different outcome. Bad bosses really are a thing.

Long story short, I believe things happen for a reason even if you can't discern it in the moment. Don't overreact, don't assume all work relationships are like your ex, and don't dwell on the past. Keep your head up and focus on building on your strengths (of which you have many!) and you'll be fine.
Last edited by Tyler9000 on Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BRUTE
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Re: Fox's Journey: Out of the Burrow

Post by BRUTE » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:22 pm

brute can confirm that work can be lots of fun. at the moment, brute really enjoys his job. it is creatively challenging, the co-workers are nice and teach him a lot, the projects are often interesting and fun.

this was not always the case, but it definitely can be.

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FBeyer
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Re: Fox's Journey: Out of the Burrow

Post by FBeyer » Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:34 am

BRUTE wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:22 pm
brute can confirm that work can be lots of fun. at the moment, brute really enjoys his job. it is creatively challenging, the co-workers are nice and teach him a lot, the projects are often interesting and fun.

this was not always the case, but it definitely can be.
I just wanted to quote this for posterity, given how many times you've expressed your disdains for humans on these forums.
Of course your massive amounts of posts per day give you away, but I still wanted to keep this little treasure for myself.


Now, back on topic.
THF's next question would probably be how to avoid going absolute insane after two years in the same job, so I'm just going to ask that question for him :)

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TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: Out of the Burrow

Post by TopHatFox » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:02 am

Key takeaways from the past few months:

1. The real world is shit for people without money
2. The money is where the people with money are
3. Graduate education likely leads to downpayment in money and no nice job anyway
4. The working world is usually a horrible place
5. Living simply and saving is the key to making the above as short as possible
6. Finding friends and partners takes deliberate and determined effort in none-college world
7. Showing up to job and doing good work while focusing on positives is best path forward; embrace the suck and all that

--------------------

I'm going to apply to finance gigs full force again. Let's see if it was the company, me, or just real life. And make some $$ while we're at it. Should be easier to find something now that I have a direct internship in the industry. :P

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theanimal
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Re: Fox's Journey: Out of the Burrow

Post by theanimal » Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:16 pm

I tend to have a similar view as you do, but I have come to see things aren't as bad as they seem. I think there can be a downside to learning about ERE too early. Especially with learning about ERE and not fully comprehending it. That being associating all work as being bad and something to escape from before even spending much time within it.

I have no problem with working, but I am finding that I've had to fight this bias of thinking all jobs suck.

Crazylemon
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Re: Fox's Journey: Out of the Burrow

Post by Crazylemon » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:53 pm

Best of luck whatever you choose.

But work shouldn't be 'horrible'. Not as amazing as doing exactly what you want is pretty much a given (100% overlap between work/play is very hard). Your latter point seems to recognise this a bit but if every day you are going to work hating it it won't be sustainable. As theanimal has said. It won't be sustainable. Even for the theoretical 2 years is might just take.

I say this also as one of the 'lucky/cursed' millennials who found this place while still in education.

Personally enjoyable but slower is my preferred method (easy to say having done the slower bit already). Even with a job which is 90% enjoyable I still have days where I think about just leaving. I can't imagine it day in day out. But maybe becoming accommodating to this and living my life around this is a step to far down the road to complacency for you.

My partner went through the same sort of soul searching as you after being let go from the high power job. Probably the best thing that happened in the end. His new work pays (nearly) as well and he actually likes work now.

An attempted sprint to the ERE finish while miserable the whole way would be a very fragile strategy, and not much fun.

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Kriegsspiel
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Re: Fox's Journey: Out of the Burrow

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:55 pm

1. If you can make it more collegeiate (living cheaply/ERE and near friends) it isn't so bad.
2-7. Yea.

Although that doesn't necessarily mean to only go after the most well-paid job. I liked doing moderately well-paid blue collar work (surveying) than highest-potential-paying white collar financial type work (mortgage banker & corporate purchasing)

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Kriegsspiel
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Re: Fox's Journey: Out of the Burrow

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:57 pm

Crazylemon wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:53 pm
Word.

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TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: Out of the Burrow

Post by TopHatFox » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:16 pm

DEC 2017

Work: Completed two interviews earlier this week that pay at least 35K, and one that pays 55K tomorrow. Let's see which one(s) work out.

Van Living: I ended up sleeping in a Toyota Yaris at a campsite for the first time. Wasn't an issue at all. Plenty of covers for warmth. Even watched Finding Dori on C's iPad. There was a humidity issue, but I imagine that can be solved by leaving a window a bit open or just wiping down the windows with a squeegee. Still trying to figure out how van living would work while staying in a place full-time, rather than moving about from place to place.

Grad School: I've decided to bail on this idea. I don't want to spend any more time in education when the prospects of a job may still be dismal afterward. Same with spending assets down pay for it. It's a huge opportunity cost, similar to college.

Orthognathic Surgery: COBRA-continued health insurance eats up $750 a month (!), but I'd like to at least find out if jaw surgery may be covered this month or next. The alternative is to start from scratch with another insurance company on the public market. Braces would be another 6K. /:

Life Path: I'm still convinced that I don't want children, pets, or other dependents going forward. I've further decided that I can't or won't help out the parent's financially in their retirement years. Is what it is. I can help them most by just being there instead. Moreover, I am perfectly happy with a simple, inexpensive boat, room, van, or tent for the foreseeable future. As for food, simple and wholesome is best. And any labor that needs doing, I'd do. I want to adventure travel full-time for the foreseeable future, write about different trips, and possibly start a tiny house homestead. All of this doesn't require much financially. I could work like crazy and get to 500K-1M, but I don't see the point. I could die during year 1 of adventure travel full-time. No, instead, I'm going to save around 200K and just go. I think this is the best approach. It avoids superfluous full-time work, but also allows an asset-backed cushion. I have been happiest in my life while hiking a trail or hanging out outside a vehicle by a roaring fire. In the meantime, I'll go on local hikes and campsites. I'll also make sure to keep in touch with friends and previous partners. I do think the biggest risk with this approach is healthcare. I'll need decent health insurance, and to take excellent care of my body and mental health. It also means I need to practice as many good safety practices as I can.

Musings: I fail to see the point of life besides just spending time with people you care about, experiencing/doing interesting things, and completing meaningful work. For me, that means helping environmental causes and having lots of time to adventure travel. It means spending time with close friends and partners. I am having trouble visualizing what else there is to life besides these things: good food, water, shelter, safety, financial security, a strong social network, and meaningful work. One really doesn't need much to achieve these, so...what else is there to do? What else is there to spend money on, really? (I'm ruling philanthropy out since there are foundations that already do that).

Society in Decline: If we are indeed a civilization in decline, I'd like to see all the things there are to see while they're still there to see. I would still like shelter and good food while I'm at it, so I see the purpose of saving up an asset base for a while. Here's to making the accumulation phase as much an adventure as possible.

----------------------

Networth: 64K

classical_Liberal
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Re: Fox's Journey: Out of the Burrow

Post by classical_Liberal » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:24 pm

TopHatFox wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:16 pm
I could work like crazy and get to 500K-1M, but I don't see the point. I could die during year 1 of adventure travel full-time. No, instead, I'm going to save around 200K and just go. I think this is the best approach. It avoids superfluous full-time work, but also allows an asset-backed cushion.
I like this plan because:

1) It forces you to stick with a job for at least 2-3 years. This is good, often the first year at a job is the toughest. You start to feel more like you're contributing after that initial period and become more competent, which intern raises satisfaction.

2) Your feelings toward your work will have large impact on your decision to bail at 200K. If you, at least, somewhat enjoy your job, I would venture to guess you will become a bit more conservative financially. If you very much dislike it, you can still jump ship per plan.

3) Make sure you draw a hard "line in the sand" re financial stability if you bail at 200K. IOW, have a plan, if inflation adjusted assets fall to "x", you must find ways to rectify immediately. I had to restart my life with zero at age 32, while it was kind-of invigorating, the whole process would have felt better with 100K as back up. I find it highly unlikely a mid-20's ERE'er will never find ways to contribute to society again ;you'll likely earn more money anyway, but better to have this line in place.

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