Too Old To Retire "Young"

[1taskaday]

Nothing helpful here just an observation.

Retired Syd used a quote in her blog lately, something like -In Italy they wrench off their car rear view mirror when driving as they are not interested in whatever is behind them only whatever is in the front.


BUT for me incidents just like the one you are going through at your workplace at the moment make me a little sad; that I didn't know about ERE younger and also that I made some of the stupid decisions about finances that I made.

I thank my lucky stars that I know about it now,as you are so correct when you say as we get older it gets way harder to put up with BS in a workplace.Our tolerance levels seem to diminish over time and we start to get angry and resentful.

I am so thankful that I have some kind of plan that will eventually get me out of paid work.

I am so thankful that I can see the absolute necessity of this (most people can't and don't).

And lastly I am so thankful that I have the perseverance and strength of character to implement it.

The ERE forum helps me greatly.

[IlliniDave]

My way of looking at it is that I do not have an inalienable right to my job, or any job for that matter. So I am grateful that I have it. But I don't twist that gratitude into some sort of dysfunctional groveling at my employer's feet. They are making money off of me, but I make more off of them (roughly speaking, their profit off of my labor is about 22% of what they pay me). They are not the enemy. It's a symbiotic relationship where everyone benefits. I'm good at what I do, but I don't kid myself into thinking that I'm irreplaceable.

But my gratitude is not solely or in the majority directed towards my employer. Some of it is directed inward. That I am where I am reflects a lot of good decisions and hard work on my part. I am grateful towards a long list of teachers and mentors over the years who helped me exploit the various junctures where preparation and opportunity met. I'm grateful for living in a place like the USA where there is a lot of inherent opportunity.

I guess what I'm getting at is that maybe it would be helpful to step back and consider that there is a lot more to a having a job/career than just a dynamic of employee versus boss and/or employee versus coworker. It's generally the sum of our own actions that get us where we are (good and bad).

From what you've said before it sounds like your job provides the opportunity grind it out a few more years and become permanently self sufficient. I'd focus on that. And, if I really felt that I had legitimate grievances with my employer, I'd be spending every free moment outside of work looking for alternate employment that would allow me to achieve the same end. The odds may be reduced at our age, but the odds are exactly 0 if no effort is put forth.

[George the original one]

New senior VP bringing in all his own people, effectively demoting many of the people who've been there a long time because, you know, all the existing staff have been doing everything wrong and the new guy has come to save the day.

Surely you know that it's not so much the new boss believes they've been doing it wrong. Rather it's a matter of allegiances, where the new boss can only trust the motives of people the new boss is familiar with.

[EdithKeeler]

So... I guess I was a little angry in my last post. Mostly over it now.

Playing with FireCalc today, running different scenarios. Retiring 5 years is totally do-able; less than 5 years is possible, and that doesn't take into account my rental property. So, feeling really good about this. My on-again, off-again boyfriend is getting ready to re-retire; we were chatting this week about how little it really takes to live. He's the one person is my real (as opposed to online) life who gets it.

End of month round up:
Net worth up some, making a little headway on the debt. A couple large expenses I had to deal with.
Fitness and health continues to be a focus. I've started going to the Y mornings before work. There at 5 AM. It sucks. I don't enjoy it. I've never been one who particularly enjoys exercise for exercise's sake--I'd much rather be hiking or something like that. I hate going to the Y in the evenings--it's FULL of kids, so mornings are better for me. (No, I can't work out at home. I could, of course, but I won't).

[EdithKeeler]

I just received my county property tax bill today: $480 for the year, down exactly $1 from last year. I got my city property tax bill a few weeks ago: $374 for the year, down about $67 from last year. (This has something to do with some rejiggering of the school system here). I LOVE my low tax bill. The cost to live in my mortgage-free house is currently $1754 a year, or the taxes plus my insurance (which I need to look at repricing. I think I can do better).

I live in a 1952 house with 980 square feet, on a wooded quarter acre lot. My neighborhood is actually pretty nice--I have some elderly neighbors who bought their houses when they were built new; I have a couple of young families who live near me, a couple of single women like myself, etc. My neighbors are quiet, keep their places up nicely, and we're all just friendly enough that if we needed something we could ask, but mostly we just leave each other alone. I actually like my little house, and it's convenient to EVERYTHING. I even have a neighborhood grocery I can walk to, as I did last night to get some potatoes, there's a Chinese restaurant within walking distance, as well as a bank and a "five and dime" store.

My utility bill (water, gas, electric, garbage pick up and some other sundry charges) has not been more than $150 for the month this summer, and I keep the house pretty cool, and I really need better attic insulation. It's LOW in the winter, because I keep the heat low and pile on the sweaters and, well, I live in the south.

I have friends that don't think I live in a very good neighborhood, because the houses aren't new and all my neighbors are not all the same race as me (Did I mention I live in the South?), and my house is small.

I look at my tax bill and laugh. My taxes are crazy low and I'm banking so much money by not having a house payment. You can talk about the "latte factor" and saving on small expenses--and I agree they can add up--but saving on housing, month after month after month has a MUCH greater effect on wealth accumulation. I was talking to my work friend the other day and said I that I should be able to retire in 5 years, but maybe sooner. She was incredulous. (Keep in mind, I'll shortly be 50, so it's not extreme early retirement). Retirement is just a dim dream for her, but she does have a really nice house.... and a big tax bill.

[DutchGirl]

Nice bills. And your house sounds great. Small enough to allow for cleaning it in a few hours, too.

[TheFrugalFox]

I actually dislike large houses. Massive rooms that always seem empty, soulless. I am much more "hobbit like" I guess, and prefer comfortable and homely over looks any day. That said, I like a big workshop - more space for more tools - minimalism goes out the window..

[EdithKeeler]

It’s been a while since I’ve updated, mostly because nothing new or interesting has been going on. Still working, still frustrated over changes at my company, still socking money away so I can escape as soon as possible, debt is going down, net worth is increasing. It’s all good. Oh, and I’ve started working on a novel.

I did have an interesting conversation with a friend this week, who suggested I sell my out-of-state rental house and the house I currently live in and “buy something nicer” over in her part of town. Well, my house here is OK—I talked about it in an earlier post. I have a nice big fenced and wooded yard for my dogs, and my neighbors are friendly enough, but not too, and mostly we leave each other alone, which is exactly the way I like it. No tyrannical homeowner’s association to tell me my front door is the wrong color.

I didn’t want to get into too many details of my finances, but I explained that I’d pretty much decided to stay put for now, because my house is super-cheap (about $150/month to live there, plus utilities and maintenance) and that low amount was a pretty small percentage of my income, and the savings is going to allow me to retire or take another job making less money pretty soon.

The thing was, I was kind of insulted. There was a judgment being made in that comment about my house, about my neighborhood, about the lifestyle I’ve chosen for myself, and it kind of ticked me off. It made me realize how hard it can be to swim against the riptide of prevailing culture. People have made comments to me at work about “Did you see that TV show? Oh, yeah, that’s right, you don’t have a TV.” Sure, it’s a statement of fact, and I don’t know that there’s a judgment per se being made there... but I do think that most people think I’m kind of weird. (If they only knew how much TV I watch over the internet, and I’ve tried to explain that I do watch many of the same shows that they do... but I’m still weird, I guess, because I’m not paying Comcast a ton of money every month for a bunch of other channels I don’t watch).

Another friend commented that I “never go on vacation.” Well, I don’t travel much, it’s true. I find a week off work, staying at home, catching up on chores, walking my dogs, etc. is a really nice way to spend time. And I do travel some—when I have to travel for work, which is occasional, I try to maximize that and see other things and people while I’m there, take an extra day, etc. I have absolutely NO interest in taking a cruise, and while I do want to travel to a few places in Europe, I’m not quite ready to do that yet. One helpful friend suggested “you’re not getting any younger, and it gets harder to travel as you age.” Well, that may be true. But it’s also harder to leave the country when I have a fragile mother to be concerned about, too many dogs to board, etc. Plus, I just like being at home. Travel to me can be very stressful, especially when I’m trying to fit it into my allotted week of vacation time from work.

So, save me from well-meaning friends who seem to think I’m denying myself all the pleasures of life. Really, I’m not. My house is cozy, and I am going to do some small upgrades here in a few months. I don’t miss having a TV. “Vacation” and “travel” are not synonyms to me. And friends, let’s talk again after I retire in a couple of years and you're still schlepping off to work, and let's see if you still see things the same way.

[jacob]

"It ought to be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things. Because the innovator has for enemies all those who have done well under the old conditions, and lukewarm defenders in those who may do well under the new. This coolness arises partly from fear of the opponents, who have the laws on their side, and partly from the incredulity of men, who do not readily believe in new things until they have had a long experience of them." - Machiavelli

H/T Ermine

[steveo73]

Another friend commented that I “never go on vacation.” Well, I don’t travel much, it’s true. I find a week off work, staying at home, catching up on chores, walking my dogs, etc. is a really nice way to spend time.

This is what myself and my wife do as well. We have 3 kids and people at work and friends of my kids go on overseas holidays all the time. It seems crazy to me but there is no idea our approach is an outlier.

I can't justify the cost of traveling. I just don't see how there is any value for money.

[Carlos]

I did have an interesting conversation with a friend this week, who suggested I sell my out-of-state rental house and the house I currently live in and “buy something nicer” over in her part of town.

Was it a good friend? Perhaps they had no idea it might be an insulting comment but rather they intended it to be a smart lifestyle move. To most people Nice house produces more happiness than two Average houses.

To us forumites the rental income and low overhead produce more life satisfaction through freedom and lack of stress.

It's sort of like someone saying - what do you mean you can't afford to go on the cruise with us, just apply for a credit card and charge it! That's what we're doing!

[IlliniDave]

If it makes you feel any better, I get some of the same grief. I'm occasionally counseled I need to spend "some of that money" or "live a little". I think mostly the people are well-meaning, just incapable or unwilling to allow that there are standards of happiness (or contentedness or whatever) different from their own. It is aggravating at times, but I've learned to just focus on my breathing and thank them for trying to help. That's a pretty good indicator of my growth as a person--not so long ago I would have argued with them and preached my outlook until I drove them away.

This is an adaptation of something that I don't even remember where I stole it from, but a pretty good motto for me:

The joy you find at the top of the mountain is the joy you carried up with you.

[EdithKeeler]

It's so fun when you find a member of your tribe.

I was talking to a guy I've known for years, not close, just a lawyer I work with from time to time. I don't know how we got on the subject, but we started talking about bargain shopping and buying used at Goodwill and Habitat for Humanity, etc. It was fun, because we both live in the same city, but both spend a lot of time in another city, and we were giving each other tips about great places to buy used, estate sales, etc.

This is a guy that can probably afford to buy whatever he wants, whenever he wants, but he sort of shrugged and was like "you can find a lot of good used stuff," and "why pay all that sales tax on expensive new stuff when you don't have to."

I dunno. I just love it when I have a chance encounter with a fellow frugal person, who's pretty open and unapologetic about it.

[EdithKeeler]

A guy that I worked closely with at my company (in another office) retired July 1. Not super-early retirement but early by most standards; he's 60. Very healthy and in shape; before he retired he expressed that he was looking forward to it, spending more time with family, doing a couple of hobbies, working on a little side thing he does. He's a very smart man; big reader, interested in a very wide variety of things, one of those guys when they get into something they read every book on the subject and make themselves an expert.

It's October. He's calling all the people he worked with "to chat." He's apparently bored. He runs and swims every morning, has finished all his big projects he wanted to get done around the house, etc. After just a few months, he's kind of at loose ends.

I just think that's really... sad. And not what I would have expected from this fellow. Geeze, I hope I'm not like that!!

[GandK]

I felt that a little, but in my case it was about not having my preferred level of adult interaction and intelligent conversation, not about boredom.

These forums help.

Yours is one of my favorite journals, Edith. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

[Ego]

I just think that's really... sad. And not what I would have expected from this fellow. Geeze, I hope I'm not like that!!

My dad had the same problem and didn't live long after retiring. I've been thinking lately about how one might recognize this before retirement. I wonder if a grass-is-always-greener outlook might be a good indicator.

[steveo73]

I just think that's really... sad. And not what I would have expected from this fellow. Geeze, I hope I'm not like that!!

This is a concern isn't it. I really want to retire and I'm 41. This might be old by ERE standards however I think at 50 I should really be done. I don't want to end up like that guy.

In stating that I think I'm basically lazy so maybe I'll be cool.

[steelerfan]

I just think that's really... sad. And not what I would have expected from this fellow. Geeze, I hope I'm not like that!!

This is a concern isn't it. I really want to retire and I'm 41. This might be old by ERE standards however I think at 50 I should really be done. I don't want to end up like that guy.

It's a big concern for me. As a non-ERE person that would still like to retire in my fifties I can sadly identify with him. Boomers are wrapped up in their work identities. My favorite hobby is a work skill (programming) and I am an accountant (sick). I am trying to break out of this mind set and am trying to get DWs mind wrapped around leaving. We could do it right now financially other than the kids in HS if we were to downsize. She has her identity wrapped up in the kids lives and they are breaking away as they should. I want to retire in 4 years when my youngest goes to college.

My MIL is 82 years old and she still is working on the road travelling 85% of the year. DW has mentioned that that will be her.... I am terrified my wife will never want to quit or will spiral into a deep depression when we pull the trigger. I start the conversation that we could walk away and am planning some trips but who knows? Some people will never quit and will never be happy unless they are working.

[IlliniDave]

I guess that's one of those things where you'll learn about yourself when the time comes. I don't see it as a concern, just a possibility, and one of the reasons I intend to be very open-minded. Maybe I'll wind up with some sort of paid occupation, maybe I'll find a volunteer niche, or maybe I'll just wallow in leisure. I wouldn't see any one of those as more of a success or more of a failure than the others. For me it's more about location, which precludes any more than a token possibility of me returning to my employer. I probably will keep in touch with some of my current coworkers, at least for a time. My dad who's been retired for over 10 years now still plays golf and poker on a regular basis with some of his former colleagues. But he's the kind of guy who is never bored, even when he's not doing anything particular. Luckily I seem to have the same trait. Maybe the key is that if you get bored easily now, you're more likely to find yourself bored in retirement.

[steveo73]

Some people will never quit and will never be happy unless they are working.

My FIL is really rich. I'm talking like 30-50 millions of dollars wealth and yet he still works. He has said that he will die working.

In stating that he is also frugal and supports my FIRE plan whereas my parents think I'm crazy.