Hello ERE community,
As you may have read in my introduction post, I am an 18 year old student in my first year of university.
It's not going so well. I'm living in a new city, have few friends, and am stressed out by school. I am living away from my family, aside from one sibling, who I live with.
The loneliness of moving to a new city is not a problem. Not only can I handle it, I kinda relish it. Just my personality. (That said, I still have met a few nice friends that I DO hang out with. I'm not a total hermit).
The stress of school is getting to me though. My courses are difficult and right now, overwhelming. My study habits have slipped and I found myself more interested in other things, like reading and websites that I'm interested in, like this one. Worse, I have a GPA target in order to qualify for my scholarship. Boo. I'm seriously worried that I'll fail a class. That's REALLY strange for me. I aced high school and as a result have my tuition paid for. I'm probably over-reacting though. Disastrous thinking.
In order to do well in school, I know I have to spend a lot of time on it. I'm interested in most of my classes, but my interest dips when the challenges peak. If that makes sense. I.e. Tests, quizes, grades etc. suck all the fun out of learning. Worse, university feels like "big business" to me. It's not a place of learning; it's a damn for-profit corporation that just wants to process students through. University is NOT the atmosphere what I thought it would be, or what it is romantically portrayed as.
Despite my initial angst, I'll probably stick with it for another 3 years and complete my economics degree. I guess it's just so unfeasible to switch paths now. Friends and family would be shocked. I myself would be quite uncomfortable with quitting.
Oh well, it's not the worst. I'm still studying something I'm interested in, despite my distaste for this learning environment. After I finish, I'll get a job and start saving for my early retirement.
What do you think? Any advice, suggestions or comments?
Thanks.
Discouraged and Stressed Out by School
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jacob
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I can't really give any advice because it took me 12 years longer than you to realize this.
I can confirm that university is way harder than high school. In my second year, I gave up computer games and TV watching. I agree that the learning pace is too high and it is mostly about cramming in information and passing exams rather than increasing understanding. It's really hard to say what will be more valuable down the road: An education or a high GPA. I'd favor the education, but if I was more career oriented, I'd likely favor the GPA. A GPA doesn't really show how educated you are as much as your level of training.
It's important to realize that the real world of for-profit corporations is not much different from the university. This is a large part of the reason why corporations prefer college students.
I can confirm that university is way harder than high school. In my second year, I gave up computer games and TV watching. I agree that the learning pace is too high and it is mostly about cramming in information and passing exams rather than increasing understanding. It's really hard to say what will be more valuable down the road: An education or a high GPA. I'd favor the education, but if I was more career oriented, I'd likely favor the GPA. A GPA doesn't really show how educated you are as much as your level of training.
It's important to realize that the real world of for-profit corporations is not much different from the university. This is a large part of the reason why corporations prefer college students.
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AlexOliver
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I take mostly literature courses, which seem to be heavily focused on discussion and essays rather than quizzes and exams.
I think you have to look at your reasons for going to college--for you it seems to be to make money (because of the economics major)? If I had a free ride, I would definitely major in English or philosophy or something equally useless but stimulating.
I think you have to look at your reasons for going to college--for you it seems to be to make money (because of the economics major)? If I had a free ride, I would definitely major in English or philosophy or something equally useless but stimulating.
Thanks Jacob and Alex.
Jacob: That's a good point in that there's a tremendous difference between an education and a GPA. I prefer the former too. Even if I fail to reach the GPA for my scholarship, my parent's are footing the bill. So I'll be keeping that in mind from now on. Education before GPA. Do you have any tips on how I could put that into practice? I have a general idea - don't study by rote, but rather seek understanding, don't be overly focused on marks, but aim for critical thinking and independence of thought, etc.
Alex: I'm not doing econ for the money. Not at all. I honestly, deep down, love the subject.
Jacob: That's a good point in that there's a tremendous difference between an education and a GPA. I prefer the former too. Even if I fail to reach the GPA for my scholarship, my parent's are footing the bill. So I'll be keeping that in mind from now on. Education before GPA. Do you have any tips on how I could put that into practice? I have a general idea - don't study by rote, but rather seek understanding, don't be overly focused on marks, but aim for critical thinking and independence of thought, etc.
Alex: I'm not doing econ for the money. Not at all. I honestly, deep down, love the subject.
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jacob
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I GPA-stupidly signed up for things like nuclear physics and quantum field theory (these are some of the toughest courses) when I could have signed up for atomic or solid state instead which are generally considered easier. Essentially, I signed up for the stuff which interested me rather than signing up for easy grades. I also picked math as my minor (stupid) instead of computer science (easier).
Eventually, you do get more respect from those in the know; but people looking at GPAs are generally not the ones in the know. So again, it depends on your intended destination/intentions.
Otherwise, it's really an economic exercise: where do you best spend your limited resource of time and brainpower. It's fairly well known that it's way easier to go from 40% correct to 80% correct than it is to go from 80 to 90%. However, in terms of GPA, there's far more reward in doing the former. If you want to maximize your GPA, you must consider this kind of triage all the time. Never read any books outside the curriculum. If you want an education, you need to ignore this advice.
I also think an education is more about how you behave than about what you know.
Eventually, you do get more respect from those in the know; but people looking at GPAs are generally not the ones in the know. So again, it depends on your intended destination/intentions.
Otherwise, it's really an economic exercise: where do you best spend your limited resource of time and brainpower. It's fairly well known that it's way easier to go from 40% correct to 80% correct than it is to go from 80 to 90%. However, in terms of GPA, there's far more reward in doing the former. If you want to maximize your GPA, you must consider this kind of triage all the time. Never read any books outside the curriculum. If you want an education, you need to ignore this advice.
I also think an education is more about how you behave than about what you know.
I hated college too, so I can't give you much positive advice. It felt like soul-sucking training to learn to follow orders and be a good cube-farm resident. Though there is a lot of information being tossed at the students, I wasn't feeling much of it stick beyond the test being crammed for. Even if it did stick, is the information as valuable as the tuition being charged when the same information is available on the internet or in a library? I think the *idea* of going to college is that you'll acquire knowledge which is much more valuable. Are you gaining knowledge or just working toward a piece of paper that makes it easier to work at a corporation? Eventually I decided it was a waste of time and quit. My family was briefly disappointed, but they still love me. Most of my friends are college grads and many are in grad school. They don't care if I graduated or not. Good friends and family will be with you whatever path you choose.
I suppose the deciding factor of stay vs. leave is what your alternative is. I worked as a programmer during the whole time I tried out college, so I had a good job waiting for me. Do you have valuable skills you could turn into a job? Considered learning something more hands-on at trade school? Do you know someone doing something you love who would take you on as an "apprentice"? Perhaps you could stay in school and study something you'd like more? Lots of people change majors. Late teens / early 20s is a big transition period, so if you want to do something other than study economics at university it really is ok to change your mind.
I suppose the deciding factor of stay vs. leave is what your alternative is. I worked as a programmer during the whole time I tried out college, so I had a good job waiting for me. Do you have valuable skills you could turn into a job? Considered learning something more hands-on at trade school? Do you know someone doing something you love who would take you on as an "apprentice"? Perhaps you could stay in school and study something you'd like more? Lots of people change majors. Late teens / early 20s is a big transition period, so if you want to do something other than study economics at university it really is ok to change your mind.
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smileyriles
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gibberade, I fell into the same unsatisfying hole when I hit university. I am in my last year of a four year business degree. I just got to a point where I accepted university for what it is....a piece of paper, an excuse to explore other areas of life, and a stepping stone for other career-like things.
I moved away from home for school and had few connections. This really bothered me. If you're looking to make some decent cash working part-time, want to meet other young people, and like socializing I highly suggest working in a restaurant serving or bar tending. I work at a red lobster here in Calgary and have gone through school quite comfortably. Before I found ERE my spending habits were quite wasteful. To give you an idea of what you can make:
On any given Friday or Saturday night:
Work from 5-11pm, 6 hours, minimum wage $8.80 an hour x 6 hours = $52.80. Add in $80-150 in tips and you're laughing. Walking away with $100-$200 a night. Can start funding your ERE nicely and meet other people in your same shoes.
Just a thought.
I moved away from home for school and had few connections. This really bothered me. If you're looking to make some decent cash working part-time, want to meet other young people, and like socializing I highly suggest working in a restaurant serving or bar tending. I work at a red lobster here in Calgary and have gone through school quite comfortably. Before I found ERE my spending habits were quite wasteful. To give you an idea of what you can make:
On any given Friday or Saturday night:
Work from 5-11pm, 6 hours, minimum wage $8.80 an hour x 6 hours = $52.80. Add in $80-150 in tips and you're laughing. Walking away with $100-$200 a night. Can start funding your ERE nicely and meet other people in your same shoes.
Just a thought.
Jacob: I want an education. I'm not going to join university's version of the rat race. I feel it's just a waste of my time otherwise. Life is too short to succumb for 4 years. That's how I see it at least. As you suggest, I likely going to enter an easier program (ie NOT honors economics, the most failed major at my university).
S: Your comments are really helpful if I decide to drop out. I don't have too marketable of skills like computer programming, but I could get into the trades I guess. I'd rather not.
SmileyRiles: Working a bar is a great idea. However you gotta be bilingual where I live, and I am only intermediate at French. Maybe I could move back home, where its only English, go to school and work.
S: Your comments are really helpful if I decide to drop out. I don't have too marketable of skills like computer programming, but I could get into the trades I guess. I'd rather not.
SmileyRiles: Working a bar is a great idea. However you gotta be bilingual where I live, and I am only intermediate at French. Maybe I could move back home, where its only English, go to school and work.
Personally, I wish I would have started college around 25-27 instead of 18. I wanted to study economics--a subject I'm passionate about too--but was frozen out of the department because I messed about freshman year.
My intellectual drive didn't really ramp up until my mid-20s, which was right after I finished school (I took a 1.5-year break mid-junior year). People often say it's hard to go back to school later, but the limber-ness of a 25-year-old mind and an 18-year-old one, to my mind, is the same. The main difference for me was that I had an answer to "why?" I would like to be in school by that age. In absence of a satisfactory "why?" answer, instead my college career involved a lot of "how?" answers--how to graduate with minimal effort.
What kept me in school (and got me back in school) was social pressure to have an acceptable answer to, "Where did you go to school?" A regretful thing.
My intellectual drive didn't really ramp up until my mid-20s, which was right after I finished school (I took a 1.5-year break mid-junior year). People often say it's hard to go back to school later, but the limber-ness of a 25-year-old mind and an 18-year-old one, to my mind, is the same. The main difference for me was that I had an answer to "why?" I would like to be in school by that age. In absence of a satisfactory "why?" answer, instead my college career involved a lot of "how?" answers--how to graduate with minimal effort.
What kept me in school (and got me back in school) was social pressure to have an acceptable answer to, "Where did you go to school?" A regretful thing.
I started liking college a lot more when I did the exact opposite of procrastinating. Essentially, I earned my free time. Granted my field of engineering might be a lot easier to know when I can solve a type of problem, rather than know when I mastered a concept in economics.
However, doing as much as possible up front allows a lot more passive thinking while you are doing different activities. For example, I solved a lot of problems in my sleep and while swimming. Ideally though, I'd rather detach my thoughts more.
Best of luck with your pursuit!
However, doing as much as possible up front allows a lot more passive thinking while you are doing different activities. For example, I solved a lot of problems in my sleep and while swimming. Ideally though, I'd rather detach my thoughts more.
Best of luck with your pursuit!
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George the original one
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Two tales to tell that may be of help...
1) I had to back down on the credit hours and change majors from EE to English in order to get my BS General Studies degree in 6 years. The problem I had with EE was we didn't get to try out or apply all the things we were learning, it was just one big knowledge cramming session. In English, I could cruise through paying only half attention and getting to daydream and experiment and I could still work in EE as a technical writer.
2) A talented girlfriend took the honors route and graduated with a BS Math in 4 or 5 years. She became a Marshall Scholar and went to Cambridge, but flunked out there. Regrouping, she then went into medicine (despite fainting at the sight of blood and when her dog was given a shot!) and came out of that as a psychiatrist over a decade after getting her BS.
So now that you have some experience with college, I'd say stay in there, but get it to a level that works for you. Don't buy the line that it has to be done in 4 years as most people actually take longer. Employers don't look at how long it takes you to graduate (unless you do so faster than normal).
1) I had to back down on the credit hours and change majors from EE to English in order to get my BS General Studies degree in 6 years. The problem I had with EE was we didn't get to try out or apply all the things we were learning, it was just one big knowledge cramming session. In English, I could cruise through paying only half attention and getting to daydream and experiment and I could still work in EE as a technical writer.
2) A talented girlfriend took the honors route and graduated with a BS Math in 4 or 5 years. She became a Marshall Scholar and went to Cambridge, but flunked out there. Regrouping, she then went into medicine (despite fainting at the sight of blood and when her dog was given a shot!) and came out of that as a psychiatrist over a decade after getting her BS.
So now that you have some experience with college, I'd say stay in there, but get it to a level that works for you. Don't buy the line that it has to be done in 4 years as most people actually take longer. Employers don't look at how long it takes you to graduate (unless you do so faster than normal).
Hi Gibberade, I am just going to throw a suggestion out there: take any opportunity you can to have direct contact with your professors or TAs, especially any that seem more interesting or approachable. If there are office hours, turn up for them. If you can't think of questions to ask about the course you're taking, just ask them all about their research or research interests -- most academics are really happy if someone shows interest in their research. Chances are a lot of them are as cynical as you about the grading system etc (though they may not admit it to a "customer") but like you, they love the subject. Some of them might be shy, or have terrible social skills, but most will probably be thrilled to be approached by someone showing interest in their subject (and not just asking for a higher grade on a quiz.)
As a teacher and as a student I think that often the best learning comes from conversations. And some of my own fondest memories from my undergrad years are of the few times I had a chance to chat with a friendly professor. (I went to a big government university where we were mostly taking classes in giant lecture halls, especially in the first two years.)
Hang in there!
d
As a teacher and as a student I think that often the best learning comes from conversations. And some of my own fondest memories from my undergrad years are of the few times I had a chance to chat with a friendly professor. (I went to a big government university where we were mostly taking classes in giant lecture halls, especially in the first two years.)
Hang in there!
d
Having changed my major so many times I can hardly count I feel your pain in how long it can take. I'm finally going to get my BS this fall and have my advisors breathing down my neck to apply for the masters program (one of whom I know just wants a cheap research assistant, but thats another story). All I can say is the journey has been the best part. I've taken my time and taken the classes that interested me. While I think this will make me a great home school mom in a few years when I can quit work it didn't significantly add to my employability. I'm fortunate to have an employer that works with my school schedule do I can get my 40 hours/wk (to keep my benefits). After 200+hrs of classwork, (including a few masters level because that was the only level offered for the subject) and a measly 2.5 GPA I feel much more prepared than the average 4 year graduate.
All I can recommend is that you do whats right for you, If that means getting your degree in 4 years and moving on to higher pay than so me it. If it means learning what you really want to learn and actually improving your mind than your going to have to answer the question "so when is it that your going to graduate?" a LOT
If I had it to do all over I might have put a little more effort into gaining FI earlier, then going back to school (and not getting married straight out of HS - BOY what a mistake!).
All I can recommend is that you do whats right for you, If that means getting your degree in 4 years and moving on to higher pay than so me it. If it means learning what you really want to learn and actually improving your mind than your going to have to answer the question "so when is it that your going to graduate?" a LOT
If I had it to do all over I might have put a little more effort into gaining FI earlier, then going back to school (and not getting married straight out of HS - BOY what a mistake!).
If you want to get an education and good grades at the same time, you might try taking the easy classes for credit hours/grades and auditing (basically just sitting in) on the harder but interesting ones. I especially loved sitting in on some of the evening grad classes, not to mention my TA was in a class as well, so I actually got to know him better.
I'll admit probably works best if you're able to pick things up fairly quickly, or are good at learning via lecture. You won't have the time to do the workload those classes normally require. Though I enjoyed hanging around in the labs after hours and in the late night study groups just for the other people (and free pizza sometimes).
I'll admit probably works best if you're able to pick things up fairly quickly, or are good at learning via lecture. You won't have the time to do the workload those classes normally require. Though I enjoyed hanging around in the labs after hours and in the late night study groups just for the other people (and free pizza sometimes).
Hi Gibberade!
What made me develop discipline and good studying habits during my first year, was that I went to college with my best friend who was a smart and balanced guy. We attended classes together, shared notes, figured things out together. It helped a lot during the first years.
Maybe one or more people in your class who are friendly and take things serious enough can become such persons for you.
What also helped a lot was fear of failure. I didn't think I had much chance to make it, but was afraid my future would suck if I didn't get my degree. This helped get my ass in gear. I went all in and... it worked!
You're getting a free ride! We all have some competitive advantages in life and I think it would be a shame not to use them.
When you find yourself goofing off too much or considering dropping out, look here. And here.
As a fourtysomething, let me tell you, four years is NOTHING.
Good luck!
What made me develop discipline and good studying habits during my first year, was that I went to college with my best friend who was a smart and balanced guy. We attended classes together, shared notes, figured things out together. It helped a lot during the first years.
Maybe one or more people in your class who are friendly and take things serious enough can become such persons for you.
What also helped a lot was fear of failure. I didn't think I had much chance to make it, but was afraid my future would suck if I didn't get my degree. This helped get my ass in gear. I went all in and... it worked!
You're getting a free ride! We all have some competitive advantages in life and I think it would be a shame not to use them.
When you find yourself goofing off too much or considering dropping out, look here. And here.
As a fourtysomething, let me tell you, four years is NOTHING.
Good luck!
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AlexOliver
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@AlexOliver
Some degrees lead more to fastfood jobs than others. Choose wisely.
With my links I wanted to say dropping out doesn't necessarily lead to a more pleasant life (you'll have to work anyway, but will have less choice in jobs and on average salaries tend to be lower - probably because less qualifications usually means more replaceable).
I've studied law and hated all five years of it. But it got me access to great jobs that didn't even have much to do with law. I currently hold a high income position in a high job security environment and I could not have had that job without my degree. (people who know about my ER plans think I'm out of my mind to give up that job)
College also had many non-financial beneficial effects on my later life.
I do have some regrets about certain of my decisions, but zero about not dropping out.
Please don't think that I look down on dropouts. I don't and in different circumstances might well have dropped out myself. And many friends and some family members gave up on college, yet I appreciate them and love them to death.
But I don't think most kids who drop out realize all the implications of their choice at the time they make it.
Some degrees lead more to fastfood jobs than others. Choose wisely.
With my links I wanted to say dropping out doesn't necessarily lead to a more pleasant life (you'll have to work anyway, but will have less choice in jobs and on average salaries tend to be lower - probably because less qualifications usually means more replaceable).
I've studied law and hated all five years of it. But it got me access to great jobs that didn't even have much to do with law. I currently hold a high income position in a high job security environment and I could not have had that job without my degree. (people who know about my ER plans think I'm out of my mind to give up that job)
College also had many non-financial beneficial effects on my later life.
I do have some regrets about certain of my decisions, but zero about not dropping out.
Please don't think that I look down on dropouts. I don't and in different circumstances might well have dropped out myself. And many friends and some family members gave up on college, yet I appreciate them and love them to death.
But I don't think most kids who drop out realize all the implications of their choice at the time they make it.