Elegant's journal

Where are you and where are you going?
suomalainen
Posts: 979
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:49 pm

Re: Elegant's journal

Post by suomalainen »

I wasn't going to write anything because these are all extremely personal decisions, but FWIW, I don't see biglaw + caring for an ailing mother + continuing a semi-long distance relationship that includes pressure to decide about kids working out well. Biglaw is not a job; it is not a career; it is a lifestyle. If you do biglaw properly, you will only do biglaw and you will lose everything else. At some point, relatively quickly I fear, you will decide which of those 3 things you will continue to do and which will fall by the wayside. Again FWIW, I once heard a story about life being like juggling balls. The trick is to remember that some balls are made of rubber and some are made of crystal.

- Former biglaw, now in-house, but still tempted to go back to the dark side from time to time, wishing you the best of luck

singvestor
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:48 am

Re: Elegant's journal

Post by singvestor »

Elegant, I was always wondering how things turned out for you after reading all of your journal half a year or so ago. Great to see that you are doing so well!

elegant
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:19 pm
Location: Land of Milk and Honey

Re: Elegant's journal

Post by elegant »

FWIW, I don't see biglaw + caring for an ailing mother + continuing a semi-long distance relationship that includes pressure to decide about kids working out well. Biglaw is not a job; it is not a career; it is a lifestyle. If you do biglaw properly, you will only do biglaw and you will lose everything else. At some point, relatively quickly I fear, you will decide which of those 3 things you will continue to do and which will fall by the wayside
Thanks for the input. Indeed, this is something that I have considered, somewhat worryingly tbh. However, this is only an "internship year" that I must complete in order to fulfill the requirement of the Israeli Bar rules to get my license. I feel I'm embarking on this biglaw adventure from a position of strength. Unlike most fresh lawyer/interns I'm lucky (and old) enough not to have massive law school debt. I also don't REALLY need the money. So I'm not (as) "handcuffed" as others in my position. I may be wrong (hopefully I'm not!) but I think that one year is a short enough period to "sacrifice" in return for learning from the best and develop skill-wise. If it becomes unbearable, I can simply quit and do other stuff.

wolf
Posts: 1102
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:09 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Elegant's journal

Post by wolf »

Hi elegant! How are things going? Are you already a working lawyer? Would be really interesting to read an update from you.

elegant
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:19 pm
Location: Land of Milk and Honey

Re: Elegant's journal

Post by elegant »

Hi all, time to update this journal.

I started my internship on September in one of the largest law firms in the country. The experience so far has been somewhat of a mixed bag. It is not as pressuring and life consuming as I thought it would be - I generally leave the office by 18:30 which is considered early. Contrary to my expectations the lawyers and partners are generally friendly and I also don't get as micro-managed by them as I thought I would be.

On the other hand, the job is most certainly not interesting. Some of the tasks are purely administrative and technical ("please prepare a binder for such and such deal") and there is hardly any legal research or analysis involved. With almost 5 months of internship behind me, I don't feel like I gained any substantial legal skills or insights which is quite a shame. My most immediate goal now is to finish the internship and pass the bar test. This is somewhat of a "sunk costs" issue as I put almost 4 years into this endeavor. While I'm not sure I want to practice law, I certainly want to be able to do so.

There has been a lot on my mind recently. The most important realization is that I'm actually not financially independent. Yes, if I choose to live alone for the rest of my life I could certainly do whatever I want financially. Readers of this journal might remember that this in fact was my original plan - starting a family wasn't my ambition. But life happens. I love my girlfriend and I'm becoming more and more inclined towards getting married and becoming a father in the near future. The current plan is to leave this city (and my mother's house) once my internship ends, find a place, move in with my girlfriend, and if all goes well for a few months - get married.

I'm also becoming more and more inclined towards becoming a father. Losing my beloved mother to dementia has also made me consider the value of filial responsibility and of having children in general. Without me and my siblings to care for her, my mother would have suffered immensely.

Thing is, starting a family in Israel is crazy expensive. Hell, even moving together with my girlfriend is going to make me spend more. This means I must increase my net worth by going back to work for a few more years. My girlfriend is a relatively frugal, DIY kind of girl, but she has no penny to her name and her income is poor (she works for the government as an educational psychologist). I hope that once we combine our finances we'll be able to maintain a 50%+ savings rate. GF also wants us (me) to get a mortgage and buy a house. I wish to rent. I don't want us to move in to my existing apartment (for certain legal reasons, in case things don't work out well), even though it could be the most cost-effective thing to do.

Anyway, some numbers for December 2018:
Income:
Salary: $2,062
Rent: $1,007
Side hustle: $1,287
Dividends: $200
--------------------
Total Income: $4,556

Expenses:
Eating Out: $363
Side hustle related and other stuff: $476
Public transportation: $58
Healthcare and insurance (including new glasses): $220
-------------------
Total expenses: $1174


Saving rate: 74.24%

Net worth:
Cash: $6,026
Taxable portfolio: $276,936
Tax advantaged portfolio: $128,120
Pension (inaccessible till age 60): $20,960
Apartment (fully owned, no mortgage): $421,883 (est.).

Total net worth: $853,925

niemand
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:18 am
Location: Woop Woop, Australia

Re: Elegant's journal

Post by niemand »

.
Last edited by niemand on Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

elegant
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:19 pm
Location: Land of Milk and Honey

Re: Elegant's journal

Post by elegant »

Random ramblings...

My relationship with my girlfriend is going through some rough times.

We've been having some stressful discussions about housing. She wants us to buy an apartment. I see no problem with renting. She wants stability. I want flexibility. She wants children. I'm indifferent (no longer in the radical child-free camp) but still want to preserve my freedom. She takes an emotional standpoint. I take the logical-rational standpoint. She says "everybody takes a mortgage and normal people manage". I say I will never have my ass owned by the bankers. She sees a house as an "asset" that will give us safety. I fail to persuade her that financial instruments like stocks and exchange traded funds are assets as well, and these too can provide financial safety.

More and more I find myself struggling with the idea that I was (and still am) financially independent from a singleton point of view, however as a mortgaged family man I'm just like any other salaried debt slave.

To elaborate: these days I spend about ILS 3,000 per month (USD 838). I make about ILS 6,000 p/m from passive & semi-passive income and another ILS 7,500 from active internship big law day job. My liquid ERE net worth, excluding my rental property & inaccessible pension fund, is approximately ILS 1.6 million (USD 450k), which means that I saved 44 years of expenses. However, as the average consuma-sucka Israeli family spends about ILS 16,000 (USD 4,471) per month, my net worth supports only 8.3 years of such expenses. This is a huge difference!

I know being FI is not everything, and I understand the importance of family. I don't want to spend the rest of my life alone. This relationship is important to me. It brought me a great deal of happiness after years of loneliness. However I cannot help but feel as if I'm willingly choosing to lose my my financial freedom. I'm joining the ranks of the voluntarily dispossessed.

Has anyone else faced such challenge, moving from a single FI status to a married/co-habitation none-FI status due to increased expenses? How did you cope with it?

On one hand all of this this seems too soon as we don't even live together and only see each other on the weekends. On the other hand we're actually getting quite old (I'll be 35 this fall!), so a decision will have to be made sooner rather than later.

On a related note - started seeing a psychologist. This was long overdue and despite my doubts is actually really helpful. Haven't shared any ERE aspirations yet, but hopefully I'll get some insights.

Job wise - internship ends in 142 days (yeah, I'm counting). Moved from corporate to litigation - I actually find the latter much more interesting!

Mom - Declining slowly. Dementia is the worst. Trying to keep her mood elated.

prognastat
Posts: 991
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 8:30 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Elegant's journal

Post by prognastat »

Sorry to hear you are going through some struggles with your girlfriend.

I would say the most important thing is the two of you get on the same page children wise as this is going to cause resentment on the side that doesn't get what they want if they don't. I think the house/apartment thing you might be able to work out, but if she continues to want kids and you don't it's just a matter of time before this becomes a bigger and bigger problem for your relationship.

If you think kids means no FI and this is the main reason for avoiding them then though it will definitely slow things down some and require a larger stash, but a single kid should still be pretty feasible. Just because you have a kid doesn't mean your spending will suddenly be equal to the average family. I would assume you would be applying ERE lifestyle to supporting a family too.

Also I would say purchasing a home isn't necessarily the worst option. I mean JLF owns his own house. The main thing to watch out for though is to not purchase more than you need. If you two decide you aren't having kids you don't need a 3 bedroom house 2 bathroom house. If you do buy only buy what you actually need and not what you feel is necessary to fit in with other people.

DutchGirl
Posts: 1646
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Elegant's journal

Post by DutchGirl »

Having a kid or kids will mean giving up a lot of freedom. Please, please, understand that. I am 40 and I have seen it happening with all of my family members and friends who have chosen that route. It is okay to choose that option if you truly want to (although I'd also urge you to think about the future of your child(ren) and keep the amount of them modest to not hurt the environment so much). But if you don't want to... just don't have kids and then resent them for costing you time and money.

It may be that you find that your girlfriend and you are incompatible. You may love each other very much, but you two seem to have two quite different ideas about the ideal future. Her: a more common consumer lifestyle with kids. You: a "smart spending & saving" lifestyle and perhaps without kids but with extra freedom&independence. Both lifestyles are okay to choose, but they are impossible to create by one couple at the same time.

As for owning a house ... it can be okay to own one. In the long run it can be cheaper. In that case the costs of buying & owning the house, accumulated, are cheaper than the cost of renting, accumulated. It often takes a year or ten, fifteen, before owning a house has become cheaper than renting one. So if you buy a house, you'd have to make pretty sure that A. you're paying a good, low-ish price for a house of decent quality (or else it'll take much longer before it becomes cheaper than renting) and B. you'll be willing to live there for a long, long time.

wolf
Posts: 1102
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:09 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Elegant's journal

Post by wolf »

elegant wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:24 pm
On one hand all of this this seems too soon as we don't even live together and only see each other on the weekends. On the other hand we're actually getting quite old (I'll be 35 this fall!), so a decision will have to be made sooner rather than later.
I had a long-distance relationship once. After some months we decided that it was time to live together. So she moved into my apartment. Living together in one apartment was a totally different experience than seeing each other only on weekends. And after some more months living together we split up and separated our relationship. I learned some lessons from this experience. Only if you live together you will get to know the other deeply and in detail.

If there are already some topics (issues) on the surface, e.g. having kids, rent vs. buy, independence vs. security, etc., then I would suggest that you don't take two steps at once. The next logicial step would be to live together, IMHO. Not only seeing each other on weekends, but to manage the whole week together, in the morning, in the evening, during the work week and on weekends. I guess, that if you live together for some months, you two will learn a great lesson about each other. And then you can maybe discuss those topics. You will maybe know if she is the partner you want to be with for the next 10, 20, ... years of your life. Don't rush into decision making, before doing the next logical step, which is living together.

wolf
Posts: 1102
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:09 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Elegant's journal

Post by wolf »

Hi elegant, any news?
How is your relationship going? Hope, well!
...and your internship? Are you now a practicing lawyer?

elegant
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:19 pm
Location: Land of Milk and Honey

Re: Elegant's journal

Post by elegant »

Well, if my shrink is to be believed, I'm still in "crisis mode" and trying to cope.

The past months have been eventful and stressful.

With several radical changes taking place in a relatively short period of time, it was almost too much for me to bear.

Leaving my hometown

I've finished my internship on August.

A few days later I left my hometown and my favorite place in the world - to move in with my GF in the center region.

This also means that I left my ailing mother. I lived with her since I FIREd in 2014. Back then I figured going back home was a good idea as we both had to cope with post-work loneliness (she retired the same year I did). During that time she became my absolute best friend. I came to appreciate her wisdom and kindness which I always took for granted. I'm grateful for the time we had together. Interestingly, I was the last person to notice her cognitive deterioration. Perhaps I just didn't want to see.

Dementia is worse than dying by fire or even drowning. It may not be as painful, however the mental toll the disease has on family members is agonizing beyond words. I don't wish this upon anyone. My siblings and I discuss mother's condition on a daily basis - to the point we almost we don't talk about anything else. And it is always stressful, i.e, do we comply with labor laws wrt the caretakers we employ? Will the Insurance company ever reply to our LTC claim? Is there even a point to torture her with routine checkups like colonoscopy and mammography? etc. The logistics part is never ending, and makes the pain of the disease even worse.

The bright side, if there is one, is that mother was always a great saver. We can afford two caretakers who watch over her 24/7 at her home. Given that, there was no point for me to stay there anymore. I had to leave. I postponed my departure for too long as it was too hard emotionally. However, as dementia slowly progresses and devours her mind and personality, I came to realize that the person I knew as my mother no longer exists. Her condition made me deeply rethink issues like having children, filial responsibility, FIRE black swans and life expectency versus quality of life, etc.

Importantly, it made me want a to start a family of my own - something I couldn't have imagined at the start of this journal.

Relationship
On September I moved in with my GF. She rents this place for almost a decade. In a sense I felt (and still occasionally feel) like a guest here. Being the lonesome individualist that I am, it was immensely difficult to shift paradigm and "think like a couple". It still is, although I think I'm doing better one step at a time.

I dedicated the past months to study for the notoriously difficult local bar exam. Things were not going as smoothly as I thought, to say the very least. We had some of the worst fights during that time. We were both very sensitive - she felt like she was not getting enough attention while I felt she did not appreciate the importance of the test for me. We had a lot of communication problems as well. We both separately considered ending the relationship.

Yet we stayed together. We came to the conclusion that we both gain from this relationship more than we lose. And we love each other very much. I know I will be miserable without her.

Unretiring

I passed the exam and am now a licensed attorney.

Becoming a lawyer was never my dream. Frankly, I only went back to school because I was extremely lost after I FIREd and wanted to do something productive with my time. Still, passing the exam was extremely important for me. I craved that external validation for some reason.

A week ago I joined a big law firm as an associate. I was amazed with the amount of offers I got, considering that at 35, I am quite old for a "young" lawyer.

I'm not sure where this journey will lead me. Yes, some people say law is putrid. Yet I was (and still am) eager to start my march on this path. Right now I find it interesting and challenging enough - and maybe this is exactly what I need.

FIRE gives you autonomy which is extremely important. But I now know putting one's autonomy on the pedestal is dangerous in terms of one's happiness. There are other ingredients to well being - like social connection and keeping oneself challenged. And sometimes, given the nature of things, the latter two require sacrificing some of that "sacred" autonomy. Learning that it is sometimes OK to prioritize these two over autonomy was the most important realizations I had in recent years. I think it is severely under-stressed in the FIRE blogsphere.

Importantly, I feel like I've learned a lot about my ISTJ-self. I feel like I want to be "present". I want to be good at what I do. I want to be appreciated by others. I want a structured routine. I want to have to go to sleep at 11pm and wake up at 7am. I want to socialize with other people, besides my GF and family. I want people to know me. I no longer wish to hide behind fake internet personnae. I don't want to be a mindless zombie in a meaningless world. I want to be me.

I can afford to quit whenever I want. I probably won't - but I can. This is the real value and strength of ERE/FIRE - not quitting at 31 and playing PS4 all day.

Money Stuff
2019 Income: USD 88,790 (including a one-time windfall of USD 44,030 due to inheritance)
2019 Expenses: USD 20,361
2019 SR: 55.41% (windfall excluded) or 77.07% (windfall included)


Net Worth:
Cash: USD 56,983.27
Taxable Portfolio: USD 324,133.92
Tax Advantaged Portfolio: USD 161,750.33
Pension: USD 35,495.40
Real Estate (est.): USD 452,026.83
Total NW: USD 1,030,389.85

DutchGirl
Posts: 1646
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Elegant's journal

Post by DutchGirl »

Can you explain to me the logic behind your mother suffering a terrible illness (very unfortunate!) and you then coming to the conclusion that you want to be a parent? I just... really don't get that.

All the misery in the world - manmade and naturemade - makes me want to have kids *less*, not more. In result, I also have zero and will have zero. No kids of mine will see their parent (me) suffer. No kids of mine will suffer themselves.

It is an honest question here: why does the fragility of life and the fragility of happiness give you the urge to bestow that unto some other currently blissful non-beings as well?

Post Reply