the animal's journal

Where are you and where are you going?
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unemployable
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by unemployable » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:44 pm

theanimal wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:28 pm
I think you're overestimating how much I'm actually thinking about this.
You did ask.
you painting me as some drama queen doesn't really add up
I don't see where I did this, but your response does indicate you're a bit sensitive on the topic.

Cheepnis
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by Cheepnis » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:05 pm

I think I'm about the least qualified person to ever give dating advice, but here goes...
I am the fittest person most of my friends/acquaintances know. I dress well and am regularly complimented on it. My house is clean, I make good money and I am responsible and resourceful. My friends think I'm funny enough in that I've been regularly encouraged to become a comedian (I'm not doing that). WHAT Am I missing?!? I seemingly check all the boxes in what you're supposed to do to make yourself better and be an attractive prospect.
I would ignore those stereotypical +'s as well as any words of encouragement from friends/family that rely too heavily on your positive traits. In my experience all those things you listed play second or even third fiddle to something far more fundamental that women are looking for. What that is I can't say. Whether it's that ever illusive "confidence" or conversational skills or microscopic personality nuances I truly don't know. What I do know was I had traits very similar to your list high-lighted to me by friends or family only to see women (sometimes even the very same ones that did the high-lighting) dating people who hold exactly zero of them too many times to believe their that important. At least in the short term.

I don't mean to imply that women don't know what their looking for, but I do think there is something more important, far less describable, and not often acknowledged that gets factored into the equation.

Having said that, I'm going to turn right around and do exactly what I was just railing against...

Based off your journal you really seem like a great guy who's got his shit together and I wish you the best in this journey. If commiseration is any help I absolutely know how difficult that constant frustration can be. You seem to be much better prepared to deal with it than I ever was though, stay strong.

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unemployable
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by unemployable » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:11 pm

Cheepnis wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:05 pm
In my experience all those things you listed play second or even third fiddle to something far more fundamental that women are looking for.
That thing is money.

Cheepnis
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by Cheepnis » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:17 pm

Hahaha. Perhaps if it's enough money. I don't know the particulars of theanimal's financials, but I doubt he has enough yet to render everything else meaningless.

bigato
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by bigato » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:20 am

If you description is precise enough about one decade, what the numbers are telling us is that indeed this is likely happening due to something with you, not with the rest of the world. I'm going to refrain myself from assuming that I know what is going on although I feel strongly that I do, and try to stick to the facts.

You have worked a lot on self improvement on mostly all aspects that you deemed important or relevant. Still, it didn't render the result you expected. As others pointed out, it is likely that whatever you thought was to way to win at the game, wasn't. You also read a lot about relationships advice and followed what you learned. Yet no results. What can we gather from this?

First thing, there is at least one huge blindspot there somewhere. It shows in your expressed frustration, in it your mental models are telling you that you should have everything needed to achieve your goal but yet reality won't conform. The impression is that your mental models are so strong, and put in place during your developmental years, heavily tied to emotions, that they will cloud your view of some of the most obvious truth in front of you.

Again, I don't want to assume the position of knowing everything or of being better than you or having the recipe out of this. If it took you so long trying to go over this, it's clearly not easy for you or maybe not easy in essence, and I'm most likely not going to be able to solve your situation from this side of the screen anyway. I just hope to point you in some directions you may have not explored enough.

Anyway, back to blindspots. The unknown unknowns. How do you find them? Sometimes it is by mere luck. Sometimes it is trying out and adapting. But sometimes you are stuck in a loop that you can't even see, and time in this case is not on your favor as the more you repeat them, the blinder you get. When I look behind from where I stand (38 years), there were two huge blindspots that defined my life in so many ways. As is said for investing in the stock market, the best time to start was yesterday and the next best time is now. The same with blindspots. They alter your life so much. Had I learned about them at least as early as in my teens, and my life would be something else completely, like if I had just fast forwarded two decades of experience without the corresponding aging.

So I am not going to give you instructions. I just hope to have primed your curiosity for the possiblity that there are blindspots. I'll just hint you that you mentioned two points: self-improvement and knowledge about relationships. But you didn't mentioned knowledge about yourself. Some come from the self-improvement initiatives you take; but only the areas you choose to improve. The nature of blindspots is that you won't even try to touch them. Instead, you will even actively avoid them and get very sensitive when anyone try to steer you in that direction. Most of the literature that is said to be about relationships that men are reading are about understanding women and understanding the dynamics of two people relating to one another. That is relevant, but I'd say that 80% of all there is to know about relationships is in knowing oneself deeply.

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Ego
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by Ego » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:02 am

Truth be told, you strike me as the kind of guy women want to settle down with. Smart. Decent. Responsible. Hardworking. Kind. The keeper they want to bring home for the holidays to meet the folks.

Is it possible that most of the Alaskan women you encounter are either too young to settle down or are not the settling-down type, which explains why they are in Alaska in the first place?

Mrs. Ego and I were discussing that study that's been making the rounds about how couples met.

https://goat.com.au/wp-content/uploads/ ... -graph.jpg

We met at work. That method peaked the year we met. Had we relied on the top methods of today we would have never connected as we would have ruled one another out or never encountered one another in the fist place. Which methods are you using?

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Re: the animal's journal

Post by slowtraveler » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:47 am

I haven't seen anyone paint you as a drama queen, nor have I seen you act in a manner consistent with that word anywhere in this long journal, that I've read from start to finish more than once. We all love you here.

On advice...
Come to Thailand. No, seriously. Your mating market sucks from what I can see. Your confidence will climb as you reverse the odds into your favor and all the dating will allow you to see where you're messing up from a place of experience.

You'll have the problem of sifting through who you like rather than lack of dating options. Meet at the park, talk for a few hours, if you connect, go to get some food, if not, say you are going to get back to work. There's so many mountains around here to explore and adventure to. Ie-Kayaking here cost less than $7 if I remember right. Tons of waterfalls, rivers, caves (avoid during monsoon season).

Get out of the freezing cold and expose yourself to the tropics as a new challenge. A room here is 100usd/month, food at $1/plate or slightly less if you cook. You could still save 75+%. A 125cc scooter is under 500usd and can take 2 anywhere in the country as long as your patient.

Head to the beach from February to April during the smoky season with your lover. I wouldnt recommend meeting a girl for love in Phuket or Pattaya but there's plenty of good, hard working, sweet girls in the north and other areas.

Online dating has worked very well for me in North Thailand. Get quality pictures up, find girls who have recently moved to the area and message them. You have your online gig. The FEIE will allow you to pay 0 taxes beyond FICA taxes.

What's the worst that can happen? You'll get laid, realize the tropics isnt for you, and head back to Alaska with more experience. Flights can be had for under 300usd one way. Because you're still in the states, I'd recommend starting with a multi entry visa for as long as they allow. Use bestonwardticket to get a ticket out of the country to show immigration a few hours before your flight.

My girlfriend saw your picture of you hunting a moose. She asked "Is that ice on his eyebrows?!" The cold is too much for many woman.

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Re: the animal's journal

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:02 am

I will endeavor to find you a Midwestern bride for $2000 plus plane fare. 50% refund if it doesn't work out.

theanimal
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by theanimal » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:40 am

@unemployable- Fair enough. I reacted emotionally.

@ffj- Thank you. That's a good point about keeping confidence up or at least the perception of it. No need for others to think of myself as weak or a charity case. A couple that I'm friends with almost looks as me as such. A lot of it is due to the guy though. Before their relationship he was in my boat and was frustrated/lonely enough to the point of tears on some nights. I found this kind of surprising, but not long after I had other friends reach out about feeling very alone. Not much up here for men in terms of community or romance. I don't know how the old timers did it.

@cheepnis- Thanks, yeah the missing link is often attributed to be power, right? Power aka having lots of resources or money is not demonstrated in the same ways up here. There are essentially zero luxury cars and a luxury home is far far less exquisite than what you'd have elsewhere. The symbols are different. I'm not wealthy yet, but I do have a well paying job and have about a dozen ways I could source income within a week or two. But yes, still less than someone older and wiser.

@bigato- Curiosity piqued. I'm not fully on board with the idea that it is entirely due to the fact that something is wrong with me since half of that time I lived in an area that had a population of 8 women, with the next town over 200 miles away. Nonetheless point taken.

@ego- Thank you. I saw that chart recently as well. The methods I use are friends and work. I tried online dating for a few months last year but was displeased with the results. Online doesn't really work as well up here since most women are already taken, then the ones that remain have their pick of the litter. The difference in messages received up here is pretty astounding with regards to female vs. male. I wouldn't be surprised if it was more than double other urban areas across the country.

@ST- That would be interesting. As you've mentioned it wouldn't really change much for me with my online gig. That'd make it very feasible. I'll have to think about it some more. Thanks for the idea.

@7W5- Haha I have no doubt you'd succeed. For now thanks but no thanks.

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Re: the animal's journal

Post by prognastat » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:45 am

theanimal wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:20 pm
Definitely can empathize with the feeling as it's something I've definitely experienced since my ex and I agreed to divorce. I haven't focused on women yet, but its definitely getting tougher now that it's been a year since we agreed to divorce and half of that spent actually divorced.

I think there's a few things. Definitely agree being in Alaska isn't helping things. Alaska has the highest ratio of men to women of any state in the US which outside of your own efforts is already going to be working against you.

Generally my first advice would be to improve your friend circle if there aren't a lot of women in it(doesn't matter if they're single or not), but it sounds like you are already good friends with multiple couples and single women. Are your friends(most of all the female ones) introducing you to/setting you up on any dates/meetings with single friends of theirs? It might not be expressly a date, it could also be a meeting where a female friend of theirs that happens to be single just happens to also have been invited. A large portion of people are introduced to their partners through friends/acquaintances. If they're not try finding out why they aren't. For one they might give you a more useful response than simply asking why you haven't found any partners and two it might prompt them to actually take initiative for you there.
Last edited by prognastat on Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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unemployable
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by unemployable » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:47 am

Something else. It is possible those girls in fact DO see you as an attractive long-term mate and are simply back-burnering you while they sleep around with the tattooed construction worker types for now. Meaning you're doing absolutely nothing wrong. Keep playing the long game.

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Re: the animal's journal

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:16 pm

theanimal wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:40 am
I'm not fully on board with the idea that it is entirely due to the fact that something is wrong with me since half of that time I lived in an area that had a population of 8 women, with the next town over 200 miles away.
I think you understand the primary issue. George Clooney couldn't pull chicks in that situation :D

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Re: the animal's journal

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:46 pm

Okey-Dokey. If you don’t want to shake the piggy bank quite that hard, I can maybe scrounge around in my warehouse and get you a 3 night stand with a pudgy older woman for just plane fare, helicopter ride, and 6 pack of moose burgers.

Mister Imperceptible
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by Mister Imperceptible » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:56 pm

I never remember love being found in Alaska in Jack London’s stories, but I do remember it being found in California.

For what’s its worth I have had mixed success in the northeast where I am from but I was a major hit when I lived down south. Location matters.
unemployable wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:47 am
It is possible those girls in fact DO see you as an attractive long-term mate and are simply back-burnering you while they sleep around with the tattooed construction worker types for now. Meaning you're doing absolutely nothing wrong. Keep playing the long game.
While the point is taken, I have to question whether it’s possible to feel warm and fuzzy about someone who has “back-burnered” you.

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unemployable
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by unemployable » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:08 pm

Mister Imperceptible wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:56 pm
While the point is taken, I have to question whether it’s possible to feel warm and fuzzy about someone who has “back-burnered” you.
I agree with this sentiment, which is why I wrote earlier, be careful what you ask for.

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Re: the animal's journal

Post by prognastat » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:08 pm

Mister Imperceptible wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:56 pm
While the point is taken, I have to question whether it’s possible to feel warm and fuzzy about someone who has “back-burnered” you.
I think it's very hard and the longer it goes on the higher the chances for resentment or feelings of inferiority could be. Neither of which lead to a healthy relationship.

bigato
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by bigato » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:00 pm

Ok. So there are 8 women around, you feel lonely and want to date, and yet you decide to stay there? I'm pretty sure you are way smarter than that. Now that *does* sound like a serious blindspot right there.
Slowtraveler's idea, on the other side, sounded like the perfect situation to throw you off balance and force you to explore unknowns. That'd be beyond awesome, consider it at least as a temporary move. Seek contrasts.

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Re: the animal's journal

Post by theanimal » Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:06 pm

@Kspiel- :lol: Good point.
prognastat wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:45 am

Generally my first advice would be to improve your friend circle if there aren't a lot of women in it(doesn't matter if they're single or not), but it sounds like you are already good friends with multiple couples and single women. Are your friends(most of all the female ones) introducing you to/setting you up on any dates/meetings with single friends of theirs?
The majority of my friend group is women so I've got that going for me. They've tried and thought of setting me up before but there has been zero single friends/acquaintances of theirs they could think of. There really aren't that many single women up here. It really might be time to try somewhere else for a while..

bigato wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:00 pm
Ok. So there are 8 women around, you feel lonely and want to date, and yet you decide to stay there? I'm pretty sure you are way smarter than that. Now that *does* sound like a serious blindspot right there.
Slowtraveler's idea, on the other side, sounded like the perfect situation to throw you off balance and force you to explore unknowns. That'd be beyond awesome, consider it at least as a temporary move. Seek contrasts.
No there was 8 women where I used to live. I moved 2 years ago. I live in an urban area now. I'm still considering exploring that idea.
7Wannabe5 wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:46 pm
Okey-Dokey. If you don’t want to shake the piggy bank quite that hard, I can maybe scrounge around in my warehouse and get you a 3 night stand with a pudgy older woman for just plane fare, helicopter ride, and 6 pack of moose burgers.
Haha I can't fly helicopters so that'd be even more expensive than the first. But thanks, i'll keep it in mind.
unemployable wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:08 pm


I agree with this sentiment, which is why I wrote earlier, be careful what you ask for.
OK I see what you're saying now. I didn't understand it as clearly before, but yes I'd agree with that. My initial thought is that I'm not really into the idea of seeing someone that rejected me early on so that they could mess around before coming back to me later on.

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Re: the animal's journal

Post by slowtraveler » Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:37 pm

My gf and I have been talking and she says you'd have too much choice here. There's more women in a single floor of my apartment than your old area.

If you're serious to come, it'll get you laid. I promise. And the cost will be .1% of 7w5's offer. $2 for a shared meal and some gas for a day trip. If you come before September, I'll still be around to show you some good cheap meals and nice parks. If not, I can send a Google maps screenshot with some bookmarks of places to try. Typically 30-40 baht per dish but some places are 15-20.

If you're serious, there's some things I wish someone had told me before..

Obviously it's your life but I'd recommend to not go exclusive with the first hot girls you get intimate with. It'll take time to know someone and find a really good match but the first lovers will be the ones who choose you or are easiest. Take a month at least, please.

My girl says many girls take good care of their men in Issan as well, not only the north. Just stay away from Udon Thani or Khon Kaen in Issan as those pockets have more of the keeping up with the Joneses vibes. She says Surin, Si Sa Ket, and Ubon Ratchatani have many beautiful, good girls. These women are used to the country life. ie- My love goes to the forest to find mushrooms when they are in season, has eaten many kinds of insects, eats rats and frogs. She could definitely outlive me in the forest, even with my significant fat reserves.

I think you'd be a good catch for a woman here. Making a team leading multi day group hikes eating wild mushrooms and plants, teaching survival with all your combined bad ass experiences. You could definitely find a partnership like this, and with less work than you've done in Alaska. Many women would be stoked to have someone share a lifestyle like this with.

As a warning-
South Thailand, some of Bangkok, bars, massages, and clubs will be more of the gold digger vibe you'll hear about. You'll see clear red flags early so date many girls to find the good girls you really connect with and this abundance of choice will make it easier to fade away from the smoking hot but psychologically unhealthty women.

It will take longer to engage physically with a good girl but the strong emotional connection should be more fulfilling anyways. On the first date you might just hold hands and it may take a week or 2 to kiss but it really is worth it. If she's showing up to meet a few times a week and your heart feels she's interested, she probably is. Obviously, you'll still date other girls so your needs will be handled until you find this special one. When girls ask if you're a player, "I really want to find an amazing woman to spend my life with but that takes time." I recommend you don't stop dating until you find this match, don't settle for just sexy and stable.

From experience, more girls here have paid for my food or even clothes/gifts than ever in America. As a norm, I'm expected to pay for around 75% of food. In America, I can count on 1 hand the times a girl paid my meal. I hear many men here are 50-50 but this seems harsh to me given the likely 90-10 pay differential.

You'll be making more than an Engineer here working just 20 hours a week. My current gf has saved me a ton more money even paying for 2 because she finds such cheap, delicious food and rooms. She's very anti premium and down to earth. Many girls are, just I've had to deal with sifting through the crazy ones.

On the chance you dont like Thailand, you can get a year visa to Vietnam or 10 year multi entry for up to 3 months at a time to China. I hear Taiwanese and Philipino people are also super friendly, speak better English, and the Visas are easier.

Thailand is the hardest to live in long term visa wise but it's not that difficult if you plan it. South Korea I have heard is obsessed with premium and not really friendly. The rain forests, beaches, and women are stunning in all of the former countries (unsure about Korea).

You could get a work permit as a hiking guide with all your experience. I've seen many of these at $100+/person for a group day hike.

Your round trip flight could be free if you apply for the Chase Sapphire Reserve card or another decent rewards card. Just cancel before the annual fee and use it to pay taxes so you get the bonus easily. Flights (and buses) within Asia are quite cheap so you can hop around to find your ideal location(s). Feel free to email or video call me sometime if you want more details or anything.

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Ego
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by Ego » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:31 pm

slowtraveler wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:47 am

Come to Thailand. No, seriously. Your mating market sucks from what I can see. Your confidence will climb as you reverse the odds into your favor and all the dating will allow you to see where you're messing up from a place of experience.
Slowtraveler has shown that this strategy can work well. I've been there, albiet as a married guy traveling with his wife, and I imagine his life as pretty f-ing spectacular.

That said, you've got to be careful going to places where the power dynamics (wealth, citizenship, m/f ratio) are flipped from your current situation. Especially if you are looking for someone to spend the rest of your life with.

From what I've seen, guys who stay for a while in a place where women treat them like George Clooney because of the color of his passport or his relative wealth, find it extremely difficult to return home. Normal power dynamics feels like Alaska to those who have experienced the wonders of Colombia or Ukraine or Thailand.

But that's a minor issue. The real problem occurs when you find the future Mrs. Animal but she has a different passport. You then must either live apart for most of the year or find a place where both of your passports are welcome long-term. Not easy.

It is a long, complex process if you want to get her a visa to live in the US. Living a life dictated by the whims of immigration laws is extremely difficult. Especially while trying to earn a living. On this trip we've encountered quite a few couples with this problem.

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