The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Where are you and where are you going?
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Alphaville
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by Alphaville »

ellarose24 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 12:23 pm
I am beginning to think retrofitting may not be as sustainable as I had thought compared to building your own.
not sure about sustainability but trying to jam new parts into old frameworks can be complicated, yeah.

i'm currently doing that with an old bicycle. fun project, solving the difficulties, but... it's just a bicycle. the complication isn't on any kind of epic level, nor a threat to anything should i fail.

but anyway, when you're ready... read this book for a good time

https://www.amazon.com/Hand-Sculpted-Ho ... /189013234

anyway, again, if you're not ready to marry your location, miss the mountains, etc... i'd just get the basic level new ac system (seems like current is fubar).

also if you stay a few years, and implement passive solar, the basic level might suffice. no need to push everything to one overpriced system that can't beat climate change anyway.

so, yes, the real "long term solution" is never gonna be a mammoth ac unit dependent on overloaded texas electric grid, but anything from planting trees to... relocation :lol:

--

eta: also, have you read the heath bro's "decisive"? a crucial manual for our overwhelmed times

https://heathbrothers.com/books/decisive/

"switch" is great too:

https://heathbrothers.com/books/switch/
Last edited by Alphaville on Wed May 05, 2021 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

white belt
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by white belt »

So it sounds like the HVAC technician was right, but now at least you know for sure and have learned a little bit about how AC's work in the process. I'd still say that's a net positive.

You can figure out whether buying an ultra-efficient AC makes sense from a money perspective by doing the math. There are solar panel calculators online that should give you estimates for how much energy a PV system can yield you in your location along with rough estimates of installation cost. Ditto with costs of electricity so you can run the math on how long it would take for a highly efficient AC system to pay off.

I agree with Alphaville about long term solutions. Remember that perfect can be the enemy of the good enough. I would say if you want a solution that's better than ultra-efficient AC over the long term, it would be to plant a solar arc of shade trees that also produce food if possible. This will probably save more energy over the long term than a highly efficient AC and isn't dependent on any electricity to function. You also get the bonus of free food. Again, Brad Lancaster's book talks about this a lot.

Regarding the roofing, does anyone have metal roofs in your area? It seems like they might hold up a bit better against hail and they are superior for water harvesting. Green roofs might not be as expensive as you think, you could always get a free quote from a company that does them in your area (if you have one).

ellarose24
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by ellarose24 »

but anyway, when you're ready... read this book for a good time

https://www.amazon.com/Hand-Sculpted-Ho ... /189013234

anyway, again, if you're not ready to marry your location, miss the mountains, etc... i'd just get the basic level new ac system (seems like current is fubar).

[/quote]

You’re right about not thinking the efficiency of my ac unit will do any good lol. But I think of if someone very inefficient moves into this home—at least They will not be making as much of an impact? Um probably overthinking.

Mountains are still calling me. Today, the next doors neighbor asked if she could pull the dandelion heads off so that the seeds don’t get onto her lawn. These aren’t dandelions, but in the same family. Much taller and skinner with sweet yellow flowers (that do turn to puff). They for some reason like a really specific patch next to my house and I’ve been exciting see them take over.

I told her I was making my lawn native prairie/wildflower and showed her my wildflowers. Her southern nature forced her to feign interest and also to stop fixating on my weeds—(WEEDS? I’ve worked hard on this!)

I mowed the patch next to their lawn begrudgingly, but it truly made me extremely sad. It was genuinely a meadow of sweet, small yellow flowers with no other plants around.

This is a main source of contention with M. He wants to stay close to family which drives me crazy. Yet he also has thought about going back to therapy as the hostility towards minorities (which he is) seems ever present. I dunno, it does feel scary to be around rows of F250s with trump signs still in their lawn and one flag that was put literally next to a park that stated “fuck Biden and fuck you for voting for him.”

I sometimes wear my feminist shirts (one says grow a pair with a pic of ovaries, one says anything you can do I can do bleeding—they are definitely made to piss people off) but I no longer feel rebellious wearing them, mostly scared. Not wearing a bra, not shaving legs, etc is a ln extreme political statement here.

That’s all to say that your intuition and continuous provoking of me to move is becoming more apparent. Yeah, maybe I get a kid to look at flowers with me, but when she goes home there’s no doubt her parents say how weird I am and laugh about being a snowflake hippie or something of the nature. More likely, there is talk of disgust that I’m braless (I am not paranoid, just been around this culture for a very very long time). I remember one of my moms friends didn’t shave her arm pits and my father brought it up likely once a month and how nauseous it made him.

It would be nice to move somewhere where, although not normal, would be at least tolerated.

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Alphaville
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by Alphaville »

ellarose24 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 3:54 pm
You’re right about not thinking the efficiency of my ac unit will do any good lol. But I think of if someone very inefficient moves into this home—at least They will not be making as much of an impact? Um probably overthinking.
well if someone inefficient moves in, your passive solar strategies will save their asses. which is what you want to do anyway. you do not want to encourage tight coupling with ac for survival. it's truly a waste. you just want good enough that you're not sweating all day and can sleep ok. the rest can be done with passive solar. worth it, worth learning about, worth doing, etc.
ellarose24 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 3:54 pm
Mountains are still calling me. Today, the next doors neighbor asked if she could pull the dandelion heads off so that the seeds don’t get onto her lawn. These aren’t dandelions, but in the same family. Much taller and skinner with sweet yellow flowers (that do turn to puff). They for some reason like a really specific patch next to my house and I’ve been exciting see them take over.

I told her I was making my lawn native prairie/wildflower and showed her my wildflowers. Her southern nature forced her to feign interest and also to stop fixating on my weeds—(WEEDS? I’ve worked hard on this!)

I mowed the patch next to their lawn begrudgingly, but it truly made me extremely sad. It was genuinely a meadow of sweet, small yellow flowers with no other plants around.
yeah i... i also have a history of cultural dislocation, which is a result of cosmopolitism on my part. meaning i operate comfortably among well-educated, international citizens of diverse backgrounds, but am utterly defeated by... eh... provincialism? yeah. provincialism kills me.
ellarose24 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 3:54 pm
This is a main source of contention with M. He wants to stay close to family which drives me crazy. Yet he also has thought about going back to therapy as the hostility towards minorities (which he is) seems ever present. I dunno, it does feel scary to be around rows of F250s with trump signs still in their lawn and one flag that was put literally next to a park that stated “fuck Biden and fuck you for voting for him.”

I sometimes wear my feminist shirts (one says grow a pair with a pic of ovaries, one says anything you can do I can do bleeding—they are definitely made to piss people off) but I no longer feel rebellious wearing them, mostly scared. Not wearing a bra, not shaving legs, etc is a ln extreme political statement here.
damn, yeah. i could never live in a place like that, because i love a good argument and can't keep my mouth shut.

and some people in some places take disagreement as an offense. and so i'd probably end up shot to death in texas :lol:

i have a bit of a parallel story with my wife in that we met back east but came to be near her family and her land in new mexico. but the thing is... while her parents are good people, she's very different from them, and so there isn't much of a common life to be had. and the land... is not enough. we belong with... the eccentrics, wherever they might be.

the plan is now to go back east eventually. can't be done immediately, the logistics are not easy anymore because we aren't in our 20s, but we now know to stop looking for houses to buy here, cuz we just don't want to marry this state :lol:

i mean, the nature is pretty, but culturally we're not a good match.

so yeah, family first, but family for us... is the two of us, in the end.

this is not to say we're miserable here btw. we're trying to live the best life we can where we are. we just know we don't want it for the long term. is it ok to want more out of life? yeah, we just want more... :lol:
ellarose24 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 3:54 pm
That’s all to say that your intuition and continuous provoking of me to move is becoming more apparent. Yeah, maybe I get a kid to look at flowers with me, but when she goes home there’s no doubt her parents say how weird I am and laugh about being a snowflake hippie or something of the nature. More likely, there is talk of disgust that I’m braless (I am not paranoid, just been around this culture for a very very long time). I remember one of my moms friends didn’t shave her arm pits and my father brought it up likely once a month and how nauseous it made him.

It would be nice to move somewhere where, although not normal, would be at least tolerated.
it's... i'm not trying to provoke you to move. althought i identify with being transplanted to unfavorable environments.

there are 2 parts to this thought, that need separation.

part 1 is in the housing calculation. when i asked you before, you said something along the lines of... you didn' t see yourself there for the rest of your life. at the same time, you're trying to price out an ac overhaul based on "long term" plans. this just does not cohere. if you want long term effects, plant some trees where they willl shade you in the summer.

part 2 is yeah, not just cultural, but a safe environment where you can thrive withouth being burned at the stake, have good healthcare should you need it, and can take nourishment from other people instead of being the lone eccentric, braving the elements. a little support, know what i mean? i know that there are parts of texas where you might feel more at home... but you mentioning wanting to buy land in west texas made me do a double take. that's oil and cattle. i know a an artist guy who was living in tucumcari nm (near west texas) and people would call him a f--- wherever he went. i mean, if that's how they want to live they can keep their goddamn town to themselves lmao.


sssssso... yeah, environments are important, especially for people who notice everything.

so, in terms of the ac.... if you're not ready to marry the neighborhood yet... don't buy it a ring :lol:

again, for long term investment.... plant the right trees in the right place, add ceiling fans, etc.

ellarose24
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by ellarose24 »

The only truly eccentric place I’ve found that wasn’t ruined by tourists (but now likely is) was Terlingua Texas. A bunch of artists and the like who drop out. I stayed at an air bnb if an artist that built her Adobe house (one room) by hand. Attached stone outdoor shower from water catchement. Outdoor kitchen. View of canyons and desert. I don’t know if you could grow anything there, but the people and the place were very very special.

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Alphaville
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by Alphaville »

i see. that sounds like the setting for "i love dick". did you ever see that or read the book? hahahaha. that was marfa though i think. marfa has a bit of an art scene also (and tourists, lol)


see: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5478730/ kathryn hahn is hilaaaaarious. im an admirer since i saw that.

anyway, i mentioned this in a different thread this morning, but we want to be around people and work that is a bit like this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/05/maga ... awson.html

that is the kind of beauty that arrests my mind. i am done with rocks deserts and dust :mrgreen:

(also, dammit, i miss the sea)

AxelHeyst
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by AxelHeyst »

Just chiming in on the ac thing.
1) hvac designers assume 20 years is the max realistic lifespan of hvac equipment. 20 years on an AC is like 300k on a toyota. You certainly do sometimes see toyotas rolling around at 350k or 400k, but it's gravy at that point, and not worth dumping more money into fixing when it does break.
2) Modern houses are designed to function with modern AC systems, particularly in humid climates. If you disconnect the mechanical systems the houses were designed to be coupled with, the houses are going to be miserable and/or suffer damage soon enough. Passive solar strategies (solar arc of trees) can help take the load off the AC, but to go without legit AC the house pretty much needs to be designed from the ground up to deal with it.

7Wannabe5
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Dad not a big fan of Sophia Loren then would be my assumption. Preferences in that realm vary greatly across generation and culture. I’ve varied my own style over the years and I have had several lovers request more rather than less. Inclusive of particular request to wear nude pantyhose on unshaved legs which was not exactly in alignment with my own personal aesthetic, but I am generally easy going, and he was 6’5” , extremely proportional, and he played bass, so I was also motivated.

ellarose24
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by ellarose24 »

Alright, monthly wrap up for April and from here out I think I will do weekly check-ins to keep me on track without becoming obsessed and torn a bunch of different ways, instead letting me come to ideas on my own, quick check in, and then mulling for another week, not obsessively waiting for someone to chime in with the "right" answer--see my post on digital minimalism

Image

Spending

I definitely could have gone down on home spending. about $1000 of that was-- roof fixed, portable AC--I won't beat myself up about those although the portable AC was a waste but a good learning experience. $200 was on a wheel barrow. I really like this wheel barrow, it also turns into a dolly to move furniture and eh, I'm happy with the purchase. then mortgage etc

Food and dining. Oh boy. Over $100 on take out. I also was still using Hello Fresh at this point which is $70-100 for three boxes. I am filled with shame at that decision, money being the least of it. The absolute waste involved with meal-ordering systems is disgusting. I've quit that. I am having trouble with ordering out still, I do it on my "bad" days. Perhaps I need to buy some easy comfort food for those days. This included groceries.

Shopping: various amazon purchases, mother's day gift for $150 (I am now determined to cross stitch things like bookmarks for gifts, no more of this consumer shit ((my dad taught us love was in the form of gifts, hard to get out of))). I thought I was being very smart using a clothing subscription service. It's $80 a month and then you can buy anything you like (they are used). $64 for the shirt. So in essence, I paid $124 for a used shirt. I immediately canceled the service

Health was all doctors visits. Can't do anything there and will likely go up as I am moving back to weekly therapy.

Auto and transport: Gas, tolls (to see doctors), and car insurance ($105)

Pets: Dog got a follow up vaccine after last months $500 vet bill

Entertainment: Youtube premium I believe and maybe some other subscription apps

Well, despite my embarrassment I like this exercise as I see sooo many places to cut from.

Shopping--that should be closer to $50 and only for needed things--household items. I'd like to keep that separate from groceries.

Food and dining: this may sound weak but I don't think I'm at a point where I can say "no takeout." Takeout really is largely dependent on moods--with low moods meaning takeout. However, hellfresh is absolutely done with, and I would like to reduce takeout to 2x a month if possible. I think I will buy mac and cheese to have on hand at all time. Cannot buy ice cream because I will eat it regardless.


And for funsies, I found what is called a "QoL" or quality of life tool. This tool is specifically made for bipolar people and can be found here: https://bdwellness.com/life-areas/

I plan on taking the test monthly. Here was this months:

Image

Work, Self-esteem, and relationships all need some help.

The website tells me to ask for accommodations from work which I refuse to do. The study also tells me 40-60% of bipolar people are unemployed and 40-50% see a decline in work and income over time, which rings true.

Self Esteem? What even is that. Maybe getting in shape will help with this. I don't know. This topic is to overwhelming to think about.

Relationships: Interactions with other humans consistently make me feel like an alien and tend to reduce me to tears. This has gotten worse with covid. Yesterday I gave my neighbor a bouqet of wildflowers and some basil and roesmary cuttings. When I got there, I heard them all talk about my dogs barking (my dogs are only let out to go to the restroom, and theirs barked at them so mine barked back, all while I was trying to train them not to bark)--she looked very quizzically at my flowers. I sometimes feel others can see and smell that I am very different--this is a major problem. It led to an obsessive spiral on "what do I need to do to come across as normal" It does not impact me at all at work for some reason--I am widely liked by clients and customers.

Goals, get spending down to $2000 by: reduced eating out, no shopping, etc. (except, I will be paying for half of the new ac: $4.5k this month, so will track expenses both with and without that purchase).

Work on self esteem with therapist and by continuing to exercise so at least my body looks confident. Relationships: ??????????????? Have no idea how to figure that one out.

ellarose24
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by ellarose24 »

Some thoughts:

Biggest weakness right now is the way my mind behaves, and i don't mean in regards to mental health. But reading other people's journals--some of which made me feel bitter as they discussed that those that are successful within ERE have a... what was it called.. socio/psycho capital or something of the nature. Essentially "I have normal family and normal brain chemistry I am just really badass and intelligent."

I push back on that idea and will continue to do so. Do you know, my mother was OBSESSED with Jung, INTP herself, learned latin just to be able to read the Red Book, she still had life happen to her and you know the rest of that story. I don't think personality types say anything about humans besides tendencies. I have heard MBTI to be "astrology for men" and I have to admit it made me giggle.

But with the bitterness out of the way, defensiveness, hurt, etc... There is the truth that likely the most important thing I need to learn is to control my minds reactivity to situations. This is a many layered problem.

I find myself walking a thin line between playing victim and setting boundaries and advocating for myself.

The public in general does not understand bipolar, and their lack of understanding influences me as well as I try and make it clear that it's okay, I'm not that type of bipolar person (my mother's variety) but also no, I'm not just a moody woman looking for attention.

I believe labelling it as neurodegenerative, which it is, may help. The mental health community itself is very damaging, with some illnesses wanting to steal autisms "Neurodivergence." --but bipolar don't see the world in a "different way"-- I find similarities in episodes of mania to those going through dementia. There are vast differences, especially that you "get" to come back from mania, but the absolute loss of self and the fear of what will happen/happened to your brain is there. And in fact bipolar is associated with dementia later in life. I believe the fact that people "come back" from manias makes the public unaware. Every time I go through mania there is brain damage that is enough to be picked up on my brain scans. This is all to say, the physical realities of bipolar are almost never discussed, the degenerative nature of the illness, the absolute cost it plays in your life--those are all the things that make managing IT more important than anything else a bipolar person can do with their lives. And that involves grieving, as it is not a grand plan, it doesn't really benefit society except in keeping the worst parts of you from society, and in this "post energy" world, however many people want to pretend that bipolar people would be some grande inventor to save the world, I think it is more likely we would be shot after trying to usurp whatever feudal lord while we say we are Jesus' second coming (perhaps 1/500 would actually gain a following).

I mention this because I simply cannot play by the same rules as other people. Stress starts a cycle that can lead to brain damage (as well as loss of all friends/money/etc only for me to come back completely in shock at what I've done)

I see two issues existing at the same time: One is that I do need to quite literally train, as in exercise, my brain to be less reactive. Funnily enough, exercising my body helps with this, yoga helps with this, meditation helps--but I need to add things such as DBT, buddhism, and stoicism into the fold. Not all at once, but slowly and studiously. Outside of any mental illness, I am highly reactive to minor stressors. I also can spiral from the smallest instance of anger from someone else.

I think another part of this is that I really, really need to build back self esteem/confidence. Since my last string of episodes, even though I am not depressed and am relatively stable, I have been feeling excessive guilt, remorse, disgust, sadness, fear--etc---at what has happened. This leads up to stress above. I think I need to *do* something worthwhile and gain confidence back. Maybe thats getting into amazing shape, maybe it's picking up the piano again and learning a difficult song, Long ago I wanted to hike the continental divide, but maybe hiking a small trail will help--just to give me some confidence.

The second issue is that while I am building up this mental strength/confidence/etc--I have to accept some limitations. For instance, this whole AC ordeal became a huge stressor for me. This is largely in part because of the above with my mind's reactivity. But the reasoning doesn't really matter at this point. As soon as the spiraling began--I should have got an AC.

While I'm building up these mental skills, my approach to consumption in general will be this: Consumption is not a way to reward myself or to cure all my ills, but I am infinitely grateful for the technology that allows me stress-free existence. And the ordeal without AC did make me think how amazing it is that we can essentially control the weather in our little bubble for 1/7th of my salary. I mean, it is expensive--but when considering what it does it's an amazing technological advancement.

I need to set very clear rules about the difference in consuming reactively vs doing what is best for me. I don't know how to set those rules, because in the past they have always been sidestepped.

I also discussed with my doctor the fact that this recent stability, which is new and amazing and I am eternally grateful for, is still slightly impacted by underlying moods. it goes likes this> Moods bash you against opposing shores and sense of self is thin and brittle and broken periodically > Meds become an anchor, but the seas are still extremely rough and throwing you around consistently. your anchor holds you in place, your sense of self is slowly healing>but it's rocky and you can definitely still feel the sea beneath you > ultimate goal is for sea to become calm. How to get sea calm? Pretty much extremely healthy in every way possible and retraining the mind (oh and meds of course). I am at the point of having an anchor, I am still traumatized by previous chapter of being thrown across sea and still healing sense of self. Goal is for calm sea. I suppose sea is my mind, and it's weather is determined by mood and reactivity.

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Alphaville
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by Alphaville »

ellarose24 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 8:32 am
But reading other people's journals--some of which made me feel bitter as they discussed that those that are successful within ERE have a... what was it called.. socio/psycho capital or something of the nature. Essentially "I have normal family and normal brain chemistry I am just really badass and intelligent."
yeah, success stories are always plagued with narrative bias and survivor bias and attribution bias etc. i wouldn't sweat it. just roll your eyes, move on, read kahneman/tversky for the truth.

and lol @mbti indeed. somewhat useful sometimes, but only as very broad strokes at best.
ellarose24 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 8:32 am
I believe labelling it as neurodegenerative, which it is, may help. The mental health community itself is very damaging, with some illnesses wanting to steal autisms "Neurodivergence." --but bipolar don't see the world in a "different way"-- I find similarities in episodes of mania to those going through dementia. There are vast differences, especially that you "get" to come back from mania, but the absolute loss of self and the fear of what will happen/happened to your brain is there. And in fact bipolar is associated with dementia later in life. I believe the fact that people "come back" from manias makes the public unaware. Every time I go through mania there is brain damage that is enough to be picked up on my brain scans. This is all to say, the physical realities of bipolar are almost never discussed, the degenerative nature of the illness, the absolute cost it plays in your life--those are all the things that make managing IT more important than anything else a bipolar person can do with their lives.
that is fucked up, and i didn't know, and thanks so much for explaining. i am so sorry.
ellarose24 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 8:32 am
And that involves grieving, as it is not a grand plan, it doesn't really benefit society except in keeping the worst parts of you from society, and in this "post energy" world, however many people want to pretend that bipolar people would be some grande inventor to save the world, I think it is more likely we would be shot after trying to usurp whatever feudal lord while we say we are Jesus' second coming (perhaps 1/500 would actually gain a following).
:lol:

comedy is also a relief from grief.
ellarose24 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 8:32 am
I mention this because I simply cannot play by the same rules as other people. Stress starts a cycle that can lead to brain damage (as well as loss of all friends/money/etc only for me to come back completely in shock at what I've done)
i don't think anybody expects you to, and imo you don't need to apologize for, nor explain this, but yes to staking your own personal boundaries.
ellarose24 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 8:32 am
I see two issues existing at the same time: One is that I do need to quite literally train, as in exercise, my brain to be less reactive. Funnily enough, exercising my body helps with this, yoga helps with this, meditation helps--but I need to add things such as DBT, buddhism, and stoicism into the fold. Not all at once, but slowly and studiously. Outside of any mental illness, I am highly reactive to minor stressors. I also can spiral from the smallest instance of anger from someone else.
dbt is good stuff, and i've seen it work. i haven't used it personally, not in treatment anyway, but will vouch for it. it's a bit related to buddhism btw.

as for stoicism... i've started to hate it since it became a blogging fad lololololol. and didn't you hint at commodus as the failure of stoicism, in some prior note? nevertheless, seneca is nice reading.
ellarose24 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 8:32 am
I think another part of this is that I really, really need to build back self esteem/confidence. Since my last string of episodes, even though I am not depressed and am relatively stable, I have been feeling excessive guilt, remorse, disgust, sadness, fear--etc---at what has happened. This leads up to stress above. I think I need to *do* something worthwhile and gain confidence back. Maybe thats getting into amazing shape, maybe it's picking up the piano again and learning a difficult song, Long ago I wanted to hike the continental divide, but maybe hiking a small trail will help--just to give me some confidence.
okay, but this to me sounds like you need to "earn" or "deserve" self-esteem, which is in my opinion the type of mentality that breeds workaholics, never-wrongers, overachievers, compulsive competitives, etc.

can you just humbly accept yourself for who you are? i mean... i think he whole recovery movement is based on that. this also relates to dbt's radical acceptance.

anyway, you don't need to do anything in particular to treat yourself as you would treat your best friend... just saying. maybe what you need to simply look after yourself rather than "earn deserves"?

this one is difficult and the mind plays tricks to avoid it though because we've been bred to earn acceptance rather than just get it.
ellarose24 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 8:32 am
The second issue is that while I am building up this mental strength/confidence/etc--I have to accept some limitations. For instance, this whole AC ordeal became a huge stressor for me. This is largely in part because of the above with my mind's reactivity. But the reasoning doesn't really matter at this point. As soon as the spiraling began--I should have got an AC.
i don't know if i'm reading your journal entry too closely, but i'll venture the notion that... if you stop mentally competing with other people's journals... then it's really easy to say hell yes to ac in hellfire, tx :D

plus do whatever else you need to do to stay well.
ellarose24 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 8:32 am
I need to set very clear rules about the difference in consuming reactively vs doing what is best for me. I don't know how to set those rules, because in the past they have always been sidestepped.
i don't know that there are clearcut "rules" that can be preprogrammed. i think only careful observation and reflection can get you there.
ellarose24 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 8:32 am
I also discussed with my doctor the fact that this recent stability, which is new and amazing and I am eternally grateful for, is still slightly impacted by underlying moods. it goes likes this> Moods bash you against opposing shores and sense of self is thin and brittle and broken periodically > Meds become an anchor, but the seas are still extremely rough and throwing you around consistently. your anchor holds you in place, your sense of self is slowly healing>but it's rocky and you can definitely still feel the sea beneath you > ultimate goal is for sea to become calm. How to get sea calm? Pretty much extremely healthy in every way possible and retraining the mind (oh and meds of course). I am at the point of having an anchor, I am still traumatized by previous chapter of being thrown across sea and still healing sense of self. Goal is for calm sea. I suppose sea is my mind, and it's weather is determined by mood and reactivity.
for me it's encouraging/inspiring/comforting to see you paying such close attention to these things, and i appreciate the opportunity to read about it. it's very good journaling. thanks for sharing it.

ellarose24
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by ellarose24 »

I do not always respond to you alpha like but I want you to know your answers are always read and cherished. Thanks for the above and all of your input.

Lol at stoicism, yes I did say that about stoicism, but I’m sure Siddhartha too was just a man. I sometimes feel icky participating in Buddhism as I feel westerners have an itch to commodify it and compartmentalize it.

I read Living Buddha Living Christ as a teen and felt I needed to find a western tradition instead of bastardizing an eastern one. Given my (newly learned) disdain for Christianity, that became stoicism. I now think they are all 50% bullshit and 50% beneficial and parse that out. I know DBT is focused heavily on mindfulness which I appreciate. I like personal agency in stoicism. I like dissociative mysticism in Christianity.

I never thought of myself as a perfectionist simply because I have never achieved perfection or even close to it, but journaling and your feedback make me feel I am. I have been complaining about my job for years but told M the other day how people on my team don’t want stats or a stack rank and that is because they are lazy, as well as many other statements that prove I still am operating under competition/achievement/success. Insecurity I believe breeds the need to put yourself against others so you know where you stand at all times. I do not understand this and have lied to myself about it for a very long time. I do not engage in competitive games—I’ve always said because I “hate” competition but it’s more that competing is extremely stressful for me especially if I don’t win. Good picking up on me comparing myself to others journals. These are all very good insights and I thank you for leading me to them. Most aspects of my life seem to have a forced win/lose component to them.

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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by chenda »

ellarose24 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 1:36 pm
I sometimes feel icky participating in Buddhism as I feel westerners have an itch to commodify it and compartmentalize it.

I read Living Buddha Living Christ as a teen and felt I needed to find a western tradition instead of bastardizing an eastern one. Given my (newly learned) disdain for Christianity, that became stoicism. I now think they are all 50% bullshit and 50% beneficial and parse that out. I know DBT is focused heavily on mindfulness which I appreciate. I like personal agency in stoicism. I like dissociative mysticism in Christianity.
This is exactly how I've felt. The problem I have with most of western philosophy (ancient and modern) is it lacks a soteriology solution to life.

ellarose24
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by ellarose24 »

Jacob in an earlier thread talked about "advertising" to not be about wheaton levels per say (thank god, it's interesting but that entire topic stresses me out. I think we have too many engineers here) but to be about thinking of a time in your life when you had very little money but were happy.

This is hard for me as I try and parse out mood episodes, but there was a time--pre ERE or even MMM or FI, where I was living the ERE lifestyle. Of course, this was in college--as is the case for many people.

There was a similar growth at that time, but also encouragement from my environment--which does not exist now.

A lot of my inspiration at that time did come from religion, but the way I interacted with religion was entirely different than the bible-belt mega-church powerpoint and rock-star worship that I come across in my current city, that makes me want to throw up.

I had been exposed to Christianity in many flavors and I knew that institutions were not made to cater to individuals--religion was very personal for me. I grew up in a private episcopal school that was very good (education wise), then moved to a Lutheran middle school that taught health instead of evolution. My mother was also studying to get her doctorate in Anthropology when I was a child and living with her pre-episode. Her thesis was on a specific curandero. Where we lived, catholicism mixed with magical folk beliefs, and you got communities like the one that I was exposed to--the Fidencista's--who had chosen vessels in the form of humans that Nino Fidencio (a saint) would inhabit and bless, give exorcisms, preach, etc.

I obviously spent large parts of my life in these private schools, but I also spent almost every afternoon and weekend with the Curandero my mom was studying (who she also happened to fall in love with) on his large farm, where his daughter and her children lived in a trailer. On top of that, my parents used to be fundamentalist baptists of the worst variety, luckily before I was born, but some of my friends as a child were remnants of those connections--so for instance I had friends tell me decorating for halloween was celebrating the Devils Birthday and that being Episcopalian was a sin worthy of hell. So in essence, I was exposed to radically different interpretations of what Christianity or even religion is, and it granted me the ability to adopt it to my life in a way that complimented my values rather than undermined them.

I spent almost all of my time reading Thomas Merton--a Catholic monk who was deeply interested in Buddhism and the connection between the religions, as well as various mystics, desert fathers, and the history of the church in general, Julian of Norwich being my favorite.

This gave me ultimate confidence in myself and my values--as I had seen them described and talked about and digested by others who I felt were just like me. Think of finding this forum, but if we use Myer Briggs--they are all INFPs like me, and so tables, charts, and numbers are replaced with long, poetic ramblings and deeply exposed vulnerabilities and there is no forum at all, just books of the mind.

During this time I gave up my car and biked about 20 miles to and from college, I also became a vegan, practiced the piano almost 2 hours a day, did yoga 2-3 times a day. I LOVED college, I loved learning--and so studying never felt like work to me, it was always deeply engaging, and I could take that engagement into almost any subject matter. I learned that I loved geology, botany, and medieval literature more than any other subjects. I chose the most "useless" of these--literature (with a focus on medieval)--intentionally. I did not yet understand that college being an institution of enlightenment and learning was only the case when college was for very rich white men--however, I do not regret my subject matter. It was deeply interesting to me, and I ended up with a good job regardless.

I had at this time, cut out everyone from my life that I felt was a negative as well. I quit partying and drinking and focused solely on improvement, and that improvement was fueled by a deep spiritual connection--which even now, not believing in the Christian label of "god"--I still 100% believe the connection that I felt was real.

Of course, anyone reading the above may say that this was mania, and it could have been. I do not think it was, but there is that possibility, as this was pre-diagnosis. Religious tendencies, goal setting, fast and marked lifestyle changes can all be ascribed to hypo-mania/mania.

I am not sure. I do know that I spent the rest of my life trying to get this time back. But I failed, and the further I became separated from this ideal, the more depressed I became, the more fragmented, the more confused.

One thing that I think prevented this was the place. I had been living where I grew up, in a border town, where I was the minority--and in my opinion this was a very good thing. I still feel very strange about my identity, hispanic culture is far more comforting to me than white culture, in fact white people in general put me on edge. I do not mean that to sound any certain way, I believe it is because I moved to a better school, but that school happened to be one of the most conservative schools in the nation with very little diversity not just in ethnicities but in thoughts. In the border town, my eccentricities were appreciated and there was simply less judgment overall. This conservative college town brought with it the worst of the worst from small Texas towns, with outright racists. I felt my self sort of... I remember the word I used was "etoliated"--growing thinner and paler grasping for some of the former light.

Then I moved to a city that was marginally better than the college town and began my job in financial sales. Looking through my journals, I struggled for about 4 years with the disconnect in my environment, my job, and who I felt I was before I snapped and moved to CO.

This exercise of looking back at a "good time" in my life is not just one that is used for motivation--I think the distance between that time in my life and now is a major factor in my getting so ill. One of the major differences between then and now was confidence in my ideas and beliefs and values. I believe with enough abuse from other people, confidence can be shattered.

Two things I think the exercise shows me:

-my environment is extremely important. I think my environment has been detrimental to me on many levels ever since I left the border town.

-While I am very appreciative for Jacob's book, and am going to continue to read and take notes--it is, like I believe he himself states, a field guide, and others must find their own path. I think a big part of failure on my end is lack of "fuel"--such as the spiritual driven fuel I had before. I think this fuel does need to be spiritual in nature for me. After engaging with feminism, I can not support Christianity in good faith. I think the answer may lie with the transcendentalists. I know for sure the answer does not lie with other people (have you been to a Unitarian church? Just awful) Mountains were a spiritual presence in my life, so are the deep green woodlands and golden prairies that I now find myself in. I need to engage with this side of myself more frequently. I often stop myself out of embarrassment that I am doing something wrong--when, for instance, I lay on the floor and look through the understory of a clover patch, or stare in rapture at streams of light filtering through a forest onto a meadow. The answer is to go alone (going with someone else will make me constantly adjust myself to not come across weird)--and to engage more purely with these moments, without judgement on my part. The other necessity will be to contemplate on the feelings and connection and write them down. And as I said before, I will engage with religious texts over time, as I often find they are pointing to the same "mystical experience" that I feel. That is just what it is--pure experience, not theory or dogma. That is my fuel and that is what I will focus on. That is my version, I believe, of ERE. The practical matters I will pick up from others.

This is also why when people say "what does ERE look like for you" I feel a bit confounded. I do need structure, but having a list of goals or bucket list items to cross off does not seem the point to me. One of the perks of my mental illness is that simply engaging with my mind is a worthwhile experience. My main focus is to not be ill and to relearn my relationship with consumption--but those things naturally disappeared from my life when I was simply living by my values. I don't see my quitting a job and getting to work--I see explorations and experience. Experience is not relegated to me "doing" anything. Nature seems to be the only necessity, and while rambling the rockies certainly gave me many experiences of ultimate joy and connection, I play around with different feelings that I feel are just as important from sitting on the porch in the morning light, watching the light play around my magnolia leaves, the sensory experience of baking bread.. etc.

I suppose one of the benefits of me being a "highly sensitive person" (that title really makes me want to gag)--I've already talked about how senses overwhelm me and lead me to wanting a padded room--but senses can also be an extremely immersive and enjoyable experience for me if my environment is first correct.

If this all sounds woo--people's description of their experiences on shrooms seem to match almost exactly with my experiences without any drugs--minus the visual disturbances. Feelings of overwhelming peace and connection to the world around me require not much more than a small walk and the canopy of a tree. I believe this may be because of my mental illness, but I would like to think it's not--I'ld like to think it's something else beyond a diagnosis.

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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by Jean »

I'm at the very opposite of the political, carrer and life choices spectrum (except about female grooming and finding description of shrooms expérience like normal life), but somehow i can relate. You must be a very good writer.

ellarose24
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by ellarose24 »

Thought better and deleted.

This forum is too important for me to take a harsh moral stance that will only divide. Selfishly, I have too much to learn . When I become full ERE maybe I’ll say fuck you all and post my unfiltered thoughts.

(The above was said humorously not antagonistically)

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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by How-DoesThisSound »

ellarose24 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 10:01 pm
You are paying to perform an act--sex--and without money, she would likely not consent. If a woman is in poverty and can only think of one way to make money--which is to consent to sex with someone she would not have before, what does this make the act? I won't answer as that's likely too radical for this forum.
@ella I totally didn't post this in an attempt to censor you in any way! It's only my view. In general, I wish everyday folks were a little more meta and introspective. The below is just me projecting that a little bit onto the forum. Hope that makes sense : )

If a woman or anyone else for that matter is in poverty and cannot think of another way to make money and as a result decides to sell sex services then I would say that the caliber of their thoughts is to blame (that is not a moral judgment). It's very easy to point at external circumstances with matters like these, but I think this is a good example of when someone hasn't widened or deepened the scope of their thinking. We can talk about ethics, nature vs nurture, etc but if we strip it all away the problem is this person's line of thinking that led them to the point they sell sex services.

I'm not going to weigh in on whether prostitution is "good" or "bad" because my personal opinion is private but I hope this provides another way of viewing this issue.
Last edited by How-DoesThisSound on Mon May 10, 2021 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by Alphaville »

ellarose24 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 10:01 pm
Thought better and deleted.
im glad i spotted it and read it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

i saw nothing wrong with it but ymmv

ellarose24
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by ellarose24 »

How-DoesThisSound wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 10:46 pm
@ella I totally didn't post this in an attempt to censor you in any way! It's only my view. In general, I wish everyday folks were a little more meta and introspective. The below is just me projecting that a little bit onto the forum. Hope that makes sense : )

If a woman or anyone else for that matter is in poverty and cannot think of another way to make money and as a result decides to sell sex services then I would say that the caliber of their thoughts is to blame (that is not a moral judgment). It's very easy to point at external circumstances with matters like these, but I think this is a good example of when someone hasn't widened or deepened the scope of their thinking. We can talk about ethics, nature vs nurture, etc but if we strip it all away the problem is this person's line of thinking that led them to the point they sell sex services.

I'm not going to weigh in on whether prostitution is "good" or "bad" because my personal opinion is private but I hope this provides another way of viewing this issue.
Oh I didn’t see your comment before deleting! I am all for healthy debate and discussion and take no offense to your comment, though I disagree with it—I’m going to let the disagreement stand and quietly move on number one, because I see the political board is locked and this gets into that sort of territory and also because I am trying very hard, for the time being, to compartmentalize my ideas so that I can focus on ERE and become a master before bringing in other mastery. Number one, because with ERE I won’t have to be afraid of my job firing me for ideas and also because I understand I am a noob here and have a lot to learn, and want to respectfully engage with others and learn and put disagreements on the back burner while I absorb what I can from others.

I do think there will be an inevitable radical feminist and ERE clash in my thoughts and journaling eventually, but it isn’t the time or place yet.

It’s funny, in my feminist spaces I feel uncomfortable bringing up anti consumption and here I feel uncomfortable bringing up feminism but they both exist on the same spectrum of radically changing my world view.

ellarose24
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Re: The Road Goes on Forever--Sometimes in Circles

Post by ellarose24 »

The more I am reading and absorbing—the more I believe that my job costs me more than it pays. I used to think $80K was a lot of money, it isn’t worth it.

I am beginning to understand that ERE is not about money or lack of money, it’s about dependence and independence. I will never leave my job if I frame it as money. Because more money is always better (I think I am paraphrasing this from the book itself or someone’s journal). Yet my job does nothing to engage me. I am thinking of staying there for two more years—the reason for this is:

I can get my CFP paid for, and while I do not want to stay in this career, it is a subject that interests me and I believe can be beneficial. Granted, it will be written, I know, to appeal to the general public, but I still think it can be applicable. If I find it’s not, I’ll simply stop—the freedom of not giving a shit about a career.

I am in the unique position in which my perspectives change rapidly. I am hoping the diet of ERE journals, book, etc will help keep me on track—as well as medication of course and various other lifestyle changes I have implemented even before ERE to be “healthy”. However, I do need to prove to myself that I can stay consistent, and that I can live this lifestyle in all of it’s aspects before quitting. Well, in all of the aspects that I can while traditionally employed. In this way, I am becoming less concerned with how much money I have and more concerned with my own habits, perspectives, discipline, etc. I don’t think the money really matters. While I will always stay on meds, the amount of time I can devote to mental health, which is really just compounded by every idea laid out in the book—makes me think I can reduce paying a psychiatrist to talk to me weekly. Also, if I do stay consistent, I will gain some confidence and not be so frightened that my mood will shift at any moment.

My psychiatrist’s ultimate goal is to wean me down on my medicine too. Not get rid of it, of course, but supplement it with lifestyle changes necessary to give me a buffer. I don’t think there are any amount of lifestyle changes that will remove the stress of my job. I think I am ill-fit for this industry and always have been. I am even thinking that staying for the CFP may be a bad idea. But my biggest promise to myself is to never make impulsive decisions. I will sit with this feeling for 6 months at least, but I am flirting with finding a part time job and leaving. I first have to prove to myself that I can live on part-time job wages, and that is still very much in it’s infancy.

A couple of projects I have started:


1. I am taking an inventory of all of my possessions. Why am I doing this? Because I want to think very carefully about my relationship with them and whether they benefit me. I know I am toeing the line of letting them define me. Something I thought about with the new AC—there are certain technologies that I am deeply grateful for and respect. Part of that respect is maintaining them, understanding them, and helping them. For instance, with my AC, not overworking it during hottest parts of the day, using passive solar to help (this is a future learning goal, I know nothing now), understanding the basics about how it works and how to maintain it. I don’t think that is a bad thing. And I think that spending some time away from technology is necessary too—would like to get back into backpacking for that reason. 

Like I’ve mentioned before, I’ve never really cared about my things. This means sometimes I didn’t buy things and sometimes I bought whatever I wanted—because the main thought was “I don’t give a shit.” This meant that when I bought things, I didn’t understand them, I let them go to waste, I didn’t maintain/clean them. It was just an absolute state of disrespect. So while most people are trying to work on not letting items define them, I am also working on respecting the items I do have. This exercise will help me see what “respect” involves with my objects and if it’s worth the time to keep them.

Anyways, I am calculating how often I use them, what it costs to maintain, the time it takes to maintain, any repairs needed, etc. I am asking myself—could I do with something more efficient/less big/ different? For instance, do I need a massive fridge? M said in Spain they had essentially mini-fridges—could I own something like that, especially given there are only two of us, and we have a bad habit of letting vegetables go bad when left in some unseen drawer in the fridge?

Objects that I have not used and will not use in the foreseeable future go in the closet. I am not ready to throw things out. I went through a “konmari” phase and threw out a lot of things that I should have kept. They will go in the closet for 6 months and if I haven’t looked for them in that time, I will try to sell or give away. Our microwave is already there.

2. I brought back a metal rack that had a lost screw someone left on the curb. I found a screw that fit, and migrated the dog treats/toys/etc to the rack and out of the pantry which was getting cluttered. I then realized that I have way too many dog toys/puzzles/etc and put most of them in the closet to be sold. I think I like this exercise of having open shelving—it demands you to come face to face with your possessions, not hide them. 

I may transition to open shelving in general

3. I also lugged back large tree limbs someone had just cut down. Two things here—the most important is that I felt very embarrassed but I did it anyways. I was walking my dog and lugging a 14 foot tree limb with all of it’s branches and leaves sweeping the floor. I did get strange looks and little smirks. This is important because thinking back to my time in college (previous post)—I put myself in uncomfortable positions constantly. If I am going to engage in this lifestyle, I have to understand that people will think I’m strange. And honestly, even without this lifestyle, people think I’m strange! Why do I care about people who live lifestyles that I do not want think about my lifestyle that I do want? I don’t know, but I do—an am working on it.

Second less important part is that I am sawing up parts of the tree, the thickest parts, to make steps to my front yard. I have also been collecting my rose vines, sage branches, and even letting some large weeds grow (they grow over 6 feet—wild lettuce) all to have material to make a wattle fence with. I don’t need a wattle fence, but I like landscaping and it is simply fun to do. The only thing I will need is rebar to weave them in and out—am researching ways to find that free.

I am also thinking of making a trellis above my windows with tree branches. I think it would look really neat, and grow vines up it. I imagine that is stepping into passive solar? If not, I still want to do it because it makes me excited to think about. I looked up how to make a trellised archway above windows but it all requires lumber that is ridiculously expensive right now. I noticed when looking at the windows that the wood framing is falling apart and will look at what I need to do to fix. preliminary reading says epoxy may work—which I already have.

Some other asides—

-one of my biggest criticisms of permaculture was that the crops were water intensive. I am finding that I am much more water intensive than crops, and if I divert some of my water usage to them then it really adds nothing to my water usage. In fact, in finding the hypocrisy here I have reduced water usage overall. For instance, I do really like my hot baths—but if I limit it to once a week and use no soap—and then pull from the bath over the week to water my plants—I use less water than I was when I was taking a hot bath every single day and draining it. (instead I take quick cold showers and limit the hot baths as a weekend treat). I am also watering the patches of wild carrots and dandelions as I have already begun to harvest dandelions for my greens and plan on harvesting carrots in the fall. I have found dandelions to be unbearably bitter--they require boiling. I think I may be able to acquire a taste for them--they are said to be more nutritional than almost any other green, but I would assume boiling them leaches some of that out. Perhaps adding them to salads with other greens would help. Or, I heard adding bacon fat--but we are not eating meat atm.

-When we got our new AC it came with a fancy thermostat that tells us our humidity. I vastly underestimated the humidity—it is averaging about 10% higher than outdoors—probably from cooking, showers, etc. That is WITH the ac on. I understand I had a “draft” before and fans that should have diverted it, but the air was heavy and there was no breeze, and this house was not made for drafts. I believe that indoors was likely 80% humidity, as now it is close to 70 even though outdoors is 60--and before it was 70 outdoors and no AC. I am actually running the AC simply to get rid of humidity, I am wondering if a dehumidifier is cost effective or if it would be essentially the same as running the ac more.

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